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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
5 Tank Busters or 5 Kommandos in a box for 105%-110% the cost of the current Banshees. Have fun with that when it happens.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Like asking for a very specific Star Wars toy for Christmas (B-Wing), and getting a different Star Wars toy (Y-Wing) instead.

I had a B-Wing when I was a kid.

Bought one for me since! And a pair of A-Wings, the best fighter ever.

BrianDavion wrote:

2: A plastic Warboss, (maybe in Megaarmor?)

Aren't there already 2 plastic Warbosses? Black Reach/Vedros and Face Rippa?

 cuda1179 wrote:
Custodes laugh, as they get only benefits

No, no they don't. Custodes already have a 4++. Getting a 1+ is only useful against ap-1 and irrelevant against ap-2, and cutodes pay a premium for storm shields, and that price hasn't changed. And ap -2 has pretty much become the de facto marine ap with the doctrines.

So, no, it's a straight nerf to custodes on top of how much ap and extra damage marines are getting making them an increasingly hard counter.

Custodes looked good at the open of 8th, but they're looking comparatively worse and worse with all the changes. None of the imperium weapon changes propagate to custodes except the storm shield nerf unless you're one of those mavericks running a land raider, and then only its Heavy Bolters. Or flagellate yourself with the bad dreadnought that remains bad. And all the weapon changes hurt custodes by making them easier to kill.

It’s almost as if they’ll need a 9th Ed Codex, just like Marines are getting.

Crazy

stratigo wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Custodes laugh, as they get only benefits

No, no they don't. Custodes already have a 4++. Getting a 1+ is only useful against ap-1 and irrelevant against ap-2, and cutodes pay a premium for storm shields, and that price hasn't changed. And ap -2 has pretty much become the de facto marine ap with the doctrines.

Cuda is referring to the fact Custodes increase invulnerable saves by 1 so their Storm Shields are still 3++ vs everyone else on top of the new +1 to the save roll.

Cronch wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Well at least the war com article paints an accurate meta landscape in terms of "winners"

You know.. gotta ensure little timmy who was on the fence about starting a wh40k army doesn't pick tyranids or something..

Little Timmy really doesn't care. Little timmy doesn't spend hours poring over statlines. If Timmy thinks the space bugs are cool, he will go for them. Of course chances of that are much smaller than Timmy going for the ZOMG SPACE IRONMAN HEROES WITH CHAINSWORDS, but it has nothing to do with melta stats and everything to do with the fact that marines are designed to appeal to juveniles.

Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..

I mean, I picked Dark Eldar side of the 3rd ed starter. Point is, it's extremely unlikely TImmy will ever pick anything but marines to start with, because they're designed to appeal to Timmies. The fact is, GW doesn't care for timmies that would be on the fence, if they could sell only Marines and somehow maintain viable player population (which seems to be the case now) it's only in their favor- they suddenly don't have to produce nowhere near as many SKUs.

 Argive wrote:


Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..

How long did you stick at the hobby?

Cronch wrote:
I mean, I picked Dark Eldar side of the 3rd ed starter. Point is, it's extremely unlikely TImmy will ever pick anything but marines to start with, because they're designed to appeal to Timmies. The fact is, GW doesn't care for timmies that would be on the fence, if they could sell only Marines and somehow maintain viable player population (which seems to be the case now) it's only in their favor- they suddenly don't have to produce nowhere near as many SKUs.

It's anecdotal but doesn't that sort of prove this is not really a rule? we both picked non-marines as our first childhood armies.

To me, Marines seem to have become the chads minature of 40k... Not little timmys.
So I think GW is trying to sell to wealthy chad whales than little timmys at this point
And if that's true the hobby population won't expand but erode.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JWBS wrote:

 Argive wrote:


Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..

How long did you stick at the hobby?

Maybe a year and a bit? Lost interest pretty quickly. My pocket money would be saved up for Gameboy and PS1 games and MTG instead of Turanids because there was not much point adding to an army that was getting thrashed by everyone I came up against which was predominately Eldar, tau, and SM.. I remember being fairly even vs chaos. This was 3rd ed I think. (The black templars book cover)

we both picked non-marines as our first childhood armies.

I did because my friend called dibs on marines. I was also the only non-marine player in our school "club" of 10.

Let me get this straight. You last participated in 40k over 20 years ago and you're still posting in these threads?

Again, anecdotal, but this tracks with my experience too. My 2 brothers and I got the 2nd ed starter as kids... I took the Blood Angels, one brother took the Orks, the other ended up collecting Tyranids.
I'm the only one that's still even remotely close to the hobby.

Then again, I could just as easily attribute it to being the youngest brother, and getting a couple more years' play in with schoolmates while my brothers were off clubbing, drinking, and going out with girls and stuff.

 Super Ready wrote:
Again, anecdotal, but this tracks with my experience too. My 2 brothers and I got the 2nd ed starter as kids... I took the Blood Angels, one brother took the Orks, the other ended up collecting Tyranids.
I'm the only one that's still even remotely close to the hobby.

Then again, I could just as easily attribute it to being the youngest brother, and getting a couple more years' play in with schoolmates while my brothers were off clubbing, drinking, and going out with girls and stuff.

Pfft... who needs girls when you have plastic crack?

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
Again, anecdotal, but this tracks with my experience too. My 2 brothers and I got the 2nd ed starter as kids... I took the Blood Angels, one brother took the Orks, the other ended up collecting Tyranids.
I'm the only one that's still even remotely close to the hobby.

Then again, I could just as easily attribute it to being the youngest brother, and getting a couple more years' play in with schoolmates while my brothers were off clubbing, drinking, and going out with girls and stuff.

Pfft... who needs girls when you have plastic crack?

Nicki Minaj might combine the two?

I started with... Lizardmen, because they were in the WFB starter and looked cool. When I joined 40k because annoyed at not finding games, I hesitated a lot between tyranids and sisters of battle.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
Again, anecdotal, but this tracks with my experience too. My 2 brothers and I got the 2nd ed starter as kids... I took the Blood Angels, one brother took the Orks, the other ended up collecting Tyranids.
I'm the only one that's still even remotely close to the hobby.

Then again, I could just as easily attribute it to being the youngest brother, and getting a couple more years' play in with schoolmates while my brothers were off clubbing, drinking, and going out with girls and stuff.

Pfft... who needs girls when you have plastic crack?

Nicki Minaj might combine the two?

Please. It's before the watershed!

Glad someone got the (Grade F) joke!

 Hulksmash wrote:

Spoiler:

 Argive wrote:

Cronch wrote:
I mean, I picked Dark Eldar side of the 3rd ed starter. Point is, it's extremely unlikely TImmy will ever pick anything but marines to start with, because they're designed to appeal to Timmies. The fact is, GW doesn't care for timmies that would be on the fence, if they could sell only Marines and somehow maintain viable player population (which seems to be the case now) it's only in their favor- they suddenly don't have to produce nowhere near as many SKUs.

It's anecdotal but doesn't that sort of prove this is not really a rule? we both picked non-marines as our first childhood armies.

To me, Marines seem to have become the chads minature of 40k... Not little timmys.
So I think GW is trying to sell to wealthy chad whales than little timmys at this point
And if that's true the hobby population won't expand but erode.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JWBS wrote:

 Argive wrote:


Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..

How long did you stick at the hobby?

Maybe a year and a bit? Lost interest pretty quickly. My pocket money would be saved up for Gameboy and PS1 games and MTG instead of Turanids because there was not much point adding to an army that was getting thrashed by everyone I came up against which was predominately Eldar, tau, and SM.. I remember being fairly even vs chaos. This was 3rd ed I think. (The black templars book cover)

Let me get this straight. You last participated in 40k over 20 years ago and you're still posting in these threads?

Well, that is Dakka in a nutshell. Lots of people who armchair general, complain, mathhammer, and know more than the developers and designers, all while not actively playing the game (and this was pre-Covid)

With re: to Timmy and Jimmy. GW wins if Timmy buys Nids and then stops. While Jimmy buys SM and continues to buy. GW doesn't expect everyone to stick, they hope enough stick, and enough short-timers drop their $300-500 (What's that now, 6 kits?) on the game and then walk.

My first army was Chaos Marines back in 2nd through 4thish. Then picked up Marines (Flesh Tearers) till about 6th? Somewhere in there I picked up Dark Eldar, while maintaining my FT. Also managed to get Krieg. Chaos got sold off to buy Heresy Word Bearers. Played some 8th as FT and DE, didn't care for it (had nothing to do with 'competitiveness'), and 9th holds zero to bring me back. So I'm done. Doesn't mean I won't post occasionally, since I follow the "hobby".

Yes because you needed to actively play the game to know Scatterbikes were stupid...

What an asinine statement. People here are catching errors and broken combos the moment we get even just small leaks of rules.

 Cruentus wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

Spoiler:

 Argive wrote:

Cronch wrote:
I mean, I picked Dark Eldar side of the 3rd ed starter. Point is, it's extremely unlikely TImmy will ever pick anything but marines to start with, because they're designed to appeal to Timmies. The fact is, GW doesn't care for timmies that would be on the fence, if they could sell only Marines and somehow maintain viable player population (which seems to be the case now) it's only in their favor- they suddenly don't have to produce nowhere near as many SKUs.

It's anecdotal but doesn't that sort of prove this is not really a rule? we both picked non-marines as our first childhood armies.

To me, Marines seem to have become the chads minature of 40k... Not little timmys.
So I think GW is trying to sell to wealthy chad whales than little timmys at this point
And if that's true the hobby population won't expand but erode.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JWBS wrote:

 Argive wrote:


Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..

How long did you stick at the hobby?

Maybe a year and a bit? Lost interest pretty quickly. My pocket money would be saved up for Gameboy and PS1 games and MTG instead of Turanids because there was not much point adding to an army that was getting thrashed by everyone I came up against which was predominately Eldar, tau, and SM.. I remember being fairly even vs chaos. This was 3rd ed I think. (The black templars book cover)

Let me get this straight. You last participated in 40k over 20 years ago and you're still posting in these threads?

Well, that is Dakka in a nutshell. Lots of people who armchair general, complain, mathhammer, and know more than the developers and designers, all while not actively playing the game (and this was pre-Covid)

With re: to Timmy and Jimmy. GW wins if Timmy buys Nids and then stops. While Jimmy buys SM and continues to buy. GW doesn't expect everyone to stick, they hope enough stick, and enough short-timers drop their $300-500 (What's that now, 6 kits?) on the game and then walk.

My first army was Chaos Marines back in 2nd through 4thish. Then picked up Marines (Flesh Tearers) till about 6th? Somewhere in there I picked up Dark Eldar, while maintaining my FT. Also managed to get Krieg. Chaos got sold off to buy Heresy Word Bearers. Played some 8th as FT and DE, didn't care for it (had nothing to do with 'competitiveness'), and 9th holds zero to bring me back. So I'm done. Doesn't mean I won't post occasionally, since I follow the "hobby".

Let me get this straight.. you actually think i played warhammer 20 years ago and quit and have been on a warhammer forum since commenting on warhammer??? Cool... cool....

As you seem to be somehow thinking that.. I was telling of my first ever foray into wh 40k (when I was like 11-12?) and sharing an anecdotal experience about what drew me in and what might be drawing other kids in.. and how it might be relvant to current times.. If you really must know, after the nids thing I stopped 40k entirely.. Have picked it up again for a brief spell and dropped it again about 7 years ago(literly painted one unit of guardians..)

I started WH40k again proper 2 years ago when my GF gave me palenor fields box set and I need d anew hobby that doesn't involve getting punched in the face or doing drugs/drinking.
I've branched to other miniatures not just GW for the purposes of hobbying but 40k is still my main game which i have been playign on weekly/bi weekly basis before pandemic..

I mean, you said you quit wothout further context. When i quit things im normally done with them. Thats why i asked. It seemed ridiculous. Kudos.

 Argive wrote:

 Cruentus wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

Spoiler:

 Argive wrote:

Cronch wrote:
I mean, I picked Dark Eldar side of the 3rd ed starter. Point is, it's extremely unlikely TImmy will ever pick anything but marines to start with, because they're designed to appeal to Timmies. The fact is, GW doesn't care for timmies that would be on the fence, if they could sell only Marines and somehow maintain viable player population (which seems to be the case now) it's only in their favor- they suddenly don't have to produce nowhere near as many SKUs.

It's anecdotal but doesn't that sort of prove this is not really a rule? we both picked non-marines as our first childhood armies.

To me, Marines seem to have become the chads minature of 40k... Not little timmys.
So I think GW is trying to sell to wealthy chad whales than little timmys at this point
And if that's true the hobby population won't expand but erode.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JWBS wrote:

 Argive wrote:


Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..

How long did you stick at the hobby?

Maybe a year and a bit? Lost interest pretty quickly. My pocket money would be saved up for Gameboy and PS1 games and MTG instead of Turanids because there was not much point adding to an army that was getting thrashed by everyone I came up against which was predominately Eldar, tau, and SM.. I remember being fairly even vs chaos. This was 3rd ed I think. (The black templars book cover)

Let me get this straight. You last participated in 40k over 20 years ago and you're still posting in these threads?

Well, that is Dakka in a nutshell. Lots of people who armchair general, complain, mathhammer, and know more than the developers and designers, all while not actively playing the game (and this was pre-Covid)

With re: to Timmy and Jimmy. GW wins if Timmy buys Nids and then stops. While Jimmy buys SM and continues to buy. GW doesn't expect everyone to stick, they hope enough stick, and enough short-timers drop their $300-500 (What's that now, 6 kits?) on the game and then walk.

My first army was Chaos Marines back in 2nd through 4thish. Then picked up Marines (Flesh Tearers) till about 6th? Somewhere in there I picked up Dark Eldar, while maintaining my FT. Also managed to get Krieg. Chaos got sold off to buy Heresy Word Bearers. Played some 8th as FT and DE, didn't care for it (had nothing to do with 'competitiveness'), and 9th holds zero to bring me back. So I'm done. Doesn't mean I won't post occasionally, since I follow the "hobby".

Let me get this straight.. you actually think i played warhammer 20 years ago and quit and have been on a warhammer forum since commenting on warhammer??? Cool... cool....

As you seem to be somehow thinking that.. I was telling of my first ever foray into wh 40k (when I was like 11-12?) and sharing an anecdotal experience about what drew me in and what might be drawing other kids in.. and how it might be relvant to current times.. If you really must know, after the nids thing I stopped 40k entirely.. Have picked it up again for a brief spell and dropped it again about 7 years ago(literly painted one unit of guardians..)

I started WH40k again proper 2 years ago when my GF gave me palenor fields box set and I need d anew hobby that doesn't involve getting punched in the face or doing drugs/drinking.
I've branched to other miniatures not just GW for the purposes of hobbying but 40k is still my main game which i have been playign on weekly/bi weekly basis before pandemic..

Legit question since you said quit and didn't elaborate, I mean I figured you must have picked up again myself, but you didn't say... explain why you got back in etc

I just had a startling realisation. You don;t think Primaris Custodes could be in the works do you? I mean, with heavy intercessors at T5 and 3 wounds what exactly differentiates the elite protectors of Mankind and the emperor's closest genetic descendants (beyond the primarchs) from....common space marines?

 Argive wrote:

Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..

I think that really depends on Timmy, and what he expects to get out of playing games.

My older brother and I didn't have warhammer, growing up. But we did play a lot of boardgames. Most commonly Chess, which he always won, and Monopoly, which he always won. We also played a lot of soccer and cricket, which he was always better at. None of that ever discouraged me from continuing to do those things, because playing the games was the reward. We grew up with a steady diet of board games, and had the idea bored in at a very early age that winning was a bonus, not the goal.

Which was a handy lesson, once I did start playing 40k, since I've lost an awful lot more games than I have won, over the years...

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
I just had a startling realisation. You don;t think Primaris Custodes could be in the works do you? I mean, with heavy intercessors at T5 and 3 wounds what exactly differentiates the elite protectors of Mankind and the emperor's closest genetic descendants (beyond the primarchs) from....common space marines?

I could see them revising custodes a little if it comes to that. that said, since they've decided that terminator armor grants you an extra wound, at the very least Allarus Custodes should have their wounds increased by 1

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
I just had a startling realisation. You don;t think Primaris Custodes could be in the works do you? I mean, with heavy intercessors at T5 and 3 wounds what exactly differentiates the elite protectors of Mankind and the emperor's closest genetic descendants (beyond the primarchs) from....common space marines?

You mean besides WS/BS 2+, S 5, A 3, LD 8, Sv 2+/4++ and 6+++ vs MW from Psychic Powers? I guess not much

 insaniak wrote:

 Argive wrote:

Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..

I think that really depends on Timmy, and what he expects to get out of playing games.

My older brother and I didn't have warhammer, growing up. But we did play a lot of boardgames. Most commonly Chess, which he always won, and Monopoly, which he always won. We also played a lot of soccer and cricket, which he was always better at. None of that ever discouraged me from continuing to do those things, because playing the games was the reward. We grew up with a steady diet of board games, and had the idea bored in at a very early age that winning was a bonus, not the goal.

Which was a handy lesson, once I did start playing 40k, since I've lost an awful lot more games than I have won, over the years...

Was he always the bank? I played a lot of monopoly and I seemed to have been winning all the games I was the bank

Certainly a fair point raised, it is not all about winning. But if you are always loosing its not good either. For me the driving factor behind board games and table top games is simply fairness and all involved having a pretty equal chance of winning. Dice are a bit of the chaos that gets sprinkled in to spice things up IMO.

As kids we made up rules as we went along for a lot of it to be honest. Tape measures were quite a rarity so had to stick rulers together and stuff
Fond memories. Alas, constantly loosing wasn't the sole reason for leaving the hobby at that point, but it was certainly a big factor for not being as interested.

Losing all the time can be unhealthy. That said nothing stops you realising that there's a skill/army difference between two people and building that into the game. If someone always wins/loses then a handicap can be applied. Eg one might have to score more points or might have fewer points to use.

The idea being that you make up for some repeat imbalance and attempt to create game where both players have a roughly equal challenge (or as close as you can get).

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
I just had a startling realisation. You don;t think Primaris Custodes could be in the works do you? I mean, with heavy intercessors at T5 and 3 wounds what exactly differentiates the elite protectors of Mankind and the emperor's closest genetic descendants (beyond the primarchs) from....common space marines?

Given their relationship with the original fluff (and look), the current Custodes effectively _are_ 'Primaris Custodes,' and there's even less justification for them to be wandering about outside the Imperial Palace, let alone Terra.

stratigo wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Custodes laugh, as they get only benefits

No, no they don't. Custodes already have a 4++. Getting a 1+ is only useful against ap-1 and irrelevant against ap-2, and cutodes pay a premium for storm shields, and that price hasn't changed. And ap -2 has pretty much become the de facto marine ap with the doctrines.

So, no, it's a straight nerf to custodes on top of how much ap and extra damage marines are getting making them an increasingly hard counter.

Custodes looked good at the open of 8th, but they're looking comparatively worse and worse with all the changes. None of the imperium weapon changes propagate to custodes except the storm shield nerf unless you're one of those mavericks running a land raider, and then only its Heavy Bolters. Or flagellate yourself with the bad dreadnought that remains bad. And all the weapon changes hurt custodes by making them easier to kill.

Custodes still get the 3++. Literally all this does is give them +1 armor.

Custodes +1 invul works on any invul so a SS custode is 1+ 3++