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It seems that in the grim darkness of the far future there is only whining. ...this is not the 40K I remember from the 90's and aughts.

Someone please tell me that matches these days aren't filled with what I've seen in this and other recent threads. I had been thinking of dusting off my old marines and returning to the tabletop again but I have no interest in being whined at constantly.

Nehvar wrote:
It seems that in the grim darkness of the far future there is only whining. ...this is not the 40K I remember from the 90's and aughts.

Someone please tell me that matches these days aren't filled with what I've seen in this and other recent threads. I had been thinking of dusting off my old marines and returning to the tabletop again but I have no interest in being whined at constantly.

Well, you're off to a good start.

I played in the 90s and 00s too. The difference then was that Marines weren't 80+% of all releases. You're seeing the inevitable resentment from how GW has gone all-in on Marines for the past three years. Throw in meta-dominating rules on top of the constant release schedule, and yeah, it's a recipe for salt.

Will you actually see it in the real world? Maybe, maybe not. Dakka represents a very particular demographic of 40K players. But I have seen- out in the real world- non-Marine players prefer to play against other non-Marine players. That said, if you're not Primaris, you're a lot less likely to have issues.

I won't refuse games on the basis of faction. I prefer not to gatekeep players on account of GW's issues. But I'll still express my issues online.

I have no idea why this can't be viewed other than a good thing. Any other period in time, sure, I could completely understand and sympathize with the displeasure. However, Covid is still in play, games are not back at full yet (same with tournaments), so lets get the marine boner out of the way so that when we are finally back to some form of normalcy, the only codexes in the pipeline will be non marine (except the chaos variety of course).
I do wish that DA was in this group (so BA and DA together, SW and DW together, and DG separate) then they could all have been out the way by Xmas.

Now we can look forward to what 2021 will bring (first Xenos book..orks, nids, GSC?) I'm just hoping that Eldar get a massive range update, Drukhari get a slew of HQ options, and Harlequins get 1-2 new datahseets. If marines can have 98 datasheets, surely harlequins can have more than 8 (with 4 of those being characters).

Also interested to see what GW are going to do with Ynnari. i feel they are going to be a decent expansion, purely based on the PA fluff which predicted the Necron rise, and Stern/Kyganil meeting with Yvraine who promised to return to meet the rising Necron threat.

2020 has been a real funk, so let's ride it out...get the marines out of the way, and hopefully 2021 will bring some better news and gameplay for 9th.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
"We want more Xenos releases"

GW: "Okay, here's a giant remake of Necrons!"

"N-no...not THOSE Xenos."

And I'm not a marine player.

Okay, so here's the thing: It's not 'please remake anybody but Marines and we'll be happy'. It's more like 'return to the old paradigm of Marines getting more attention because they're the poster boys, but not hogging attention constantly, and put everyone at the same balance level, without Marines eroding the faction identity of everyone else'. Not as pithy, I'll admit. A makeover for Necrons is great- now, are the Marine releases tapering off? Are the new Necrons up to the same standards as Marines, rules-wise? To both questions, the answer seems to be no.

And here's what I've noticed about the Necron releases- every single one was accompanied by additional Marine releases. The Sisters releases were accompanied by Marine releases. Then Marines also get their own releases. Give us a good wave of xenos releases while Marines get fething nothing and then I'll start to believe that things are changing. If the new Marine codex is a general nerf to the faction, I'll believe things are changing. But I'm not going to be satisfied until I see results.

I'm happy for Necron players. I'm happy for players who are now picking up Necrons. But I play Tyranids and Astra Militarum. And Tyranids haven't had a release since 2014, and I don't think Astra Militarum are any better. Am I supposed to be happy? Six years is a long time.

Maybe I sound angry or upset. I'm really not. I just don't buy new product. And I'm not going to cheerlead for GW throwing a bone to Necrons while, seemingly, also ensuring that Marines get equivalent releases while maintaining superior rules. As of today, it looks like Custodes are next on the list of factions whose identity (in this case, T5/W3 basic infantry) is being assimilated by Marines.

How crazy is it that I've gotten more regular support for my non-Marine armies in Horus Heresy than in 40K?

 catbarf wrote:

Okay, so here's the thing: It's not 'please remake anybody but Marines and we'll be happy'. It's more like 'return to the old paradigm of Marines getting more attention because they're the poster boys, but not hogging attention constantly, and put everyone at the same balance level, without Marines eroding the faction identity of everyone else'. Not as pithy, I'll admit. A makeover for Necrons is great- now, are the Marine releases tapering off? Are the new Necrons up to the same standards as Marines, rules-wise? To both questions, the answer seems to be no.

I've got no disagreement with that. I'm just trying to keep some perspective. Marines have gotten a lot of attention, but part of that is because they were broken for most of 8th, and then overpowered. They've gotten some extra attention that others probably wouldn't have gotten. But at the end of the day, that doesn't necessarily mean that its come at the cost of anyone else. And even if it has a little bit, we've still seen a more rapid increase in model release speed and quantity than ever before. (If anyone has numbers on amount of releases, I'd be interested. I remember how slooow everything was in 5th, for example. I'd wager non-marines are still getting releases faster since 8th than anyone was getting in 5th/6th.)

Personally, I am really fed up. I'm jut not fed up over the newest stuff. I've been mad with the state of my factions, Chaos Marines and Dark Eldar since the early days of 8th. My DE army (mostly warriors in raiders and Reavers) got gutted, and while DE has had viable lists in 8th, they've had the various HQ issues, and none of those viable lists have much overlapped with my collection. And marine infantry of all types was pretty useless most of 8th until the new SM codex, but that didn't do my Chaos any good. And now we're still going to wait awhile for a new CSM codex too. So I know what it feels like to be left out.

But I also realize that this focus on marines was started when they decided to to Primaris in 8th (which i think was a bad move), and we're still waiting for that to wrap up. And at least the game overall seems to have moved in a better direction with 9th, and I like the level of options and detail that marines are getting and hoping for everyone else to get similar.

So overall, I get why people are upset, but I think they're mad about the wrong things. 8th was a disaster in many ways, and now we're starting to see those issues fixed. We should be glad about that. Its a slow process. It probably would have been better if the new Necron wave was half the size, and we got half a new wave for Orks or Eldar instead. But this seems to be what the model team has chosen. So let's be optimistic that other factions will get treated as well as Necrons in the long run. (Of course, their rules might still be a problem, but that's a whole other issue.)

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:


I've got no disagreement with that. I'm just trying to keep some perspective. Marines have gotten a lot of attention, but part of that is because they were broken for most of 8th, and then overpowered

They've gotten the attention because GW is trying a seamless retool and revamp of the balance, IP, and God Knows What Else involved in the army. They're basically introducing an entirely new Army while trying to avoid shutting the army down for however long that takes. That makes it take longer while keeping the most popular army(armies) on the table to play against.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

How long are you going to ignore this:

I'll repeat: If the supplements weren't coming out, you still wouldn't be seeing Xenos range refreshes yet. Models and Books are different departments.

Models is not what I care about right now. At the moment what I care about is the erosion of stats/identities/etc. of other armies in favor of marines. When people complain about things like Eradicators, we get posts that say "Just wait, man, we don't know yet." We'd see how that was going to play out sooner if books other than Marine books were coming out.

But when formerly "tough-identity" Necron troops top out at 1W, and Marines are now getting 3W troops, I'm not exactly enthusiastic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nehvar wrote:
It seems that in the grim darkness of the far future there is only whining. ...this is not the 40K I remember from the 90's and aughts.

Someone please tell me that matches these days aren't filled with what I've seen in this and other recent threads. I had been thinking of dusting off my old marines and returning to the tabletop again but I have no interest in being whined at constantly.

You're probably not going to be whined at playing classic marines. I play them to, btw.

For someone saying "We don't know the [codex release order]" You're fairly certain no marines would mean no other xenos releases.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Right, so. . . Release schedule is:

Marines
Xenos
Marines
Marines
Marines

Based on what we know, the release schedule is

Xenos with major range update
Marine expansion
Marine Supplement with no known models
Marine Supplement with no known models
Chaos supplement with two known models
Marine Supplement with no known models

And that's just for 40K. Then there are all the AOS, Warcry, Necromonda, Underworlds and what no releases.

But sure, it's all marines all the time

Love how you stresed "Major Range Update" for necrons, when marheines are getting more from the codex rules wise (regarding what is revealed so far).

Ignoring that, I see 5 marines in that list of yours

^I like how there's no mention of the new marine model releases either.

In fact, the warhammer community post has five Necron model releases, and six Marine ones.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^I like how there's no mention of the new marine model releases either.

In fact, the warhammer community post has five Necron model releases, and six Marine ones.

I saw this:

GW Community wrote:We’ve already shown you some of the brand-new Adeptus Astartes units, but to save you from struggling to identify all 98 units, we’re going to show the rest right now!

and I'm already queasy. Are the Bladeguard Captain and Lieutenant not new because they didn't get sprue upgrades like the Assault Intercessors and Eradicators? Are they not going to be in the codex?

Just did a quick count of the current e-codex, so I may have missed one or counted one twice as I scroll and count at the time time, but I came up with 76 sheets. Add 8 new ones (I think the Chaplain is still the same data sheet) from Indomitus you're at 84. Another freaking Primaris Captain is 85. 3 Speeders is 88. That leaves 10. Was there another boxed set with new stuff after the second codex? Did I miscount by 10? Did they actually not show us all the new stuff? Did some of the other codex unique stuff jump over to the main codex instead of their eventual supplement so it's not technically "new"? Did more than 10 of these sheets jump that way, and some of the old sheets went to legends?

sur except every necron unit on that page is something totally new.

Let's look at what's displayed here.

Necron stuff:
-Silent king (new model, we've seen it before but it's new)
-Ophyrdron Destroyers - pretty sure this is ANOTHER new type of destroyer and one we've not seen before
-Flayed one - Likewise totally new, we'd never seen this before and it's a suprise (this I belive means the Necrons can join the ranks of armies that are 100% plastic excluding the odd character, something thanks to TFCs not even marines can claim)
- Chronomancer and Psychomancer - two new types of cryptics never seen before.

of the 5 necron units, 4 where literally unseen before and 1 which we've seen before didn't come out in Indomatus.

Now Marine Stuff:
- Gravis Captain - this is genuinely new, although we've seen it before thanks to some eagle eyed spotters earlier on.
- Heavy Intercessors - Likewise genuinely new
- Eliminators - we've already seen this before as they are in indomatus, but it's a new kit so it's good to know these guys aren't going to be unavaliable outside the Indomatus Box
- Blade Guard Vets - we've seen this kit previewed before, so it's really nothing.
- Assault Intercessors - Likewise they came out in Indomatus, it's good to know about the sergant options though.
- Storm Speeder varients - Genuinely new.

so yeah we saw more Marine stuff, but the necrons stuff is all brand new never before seen things, so I'd say that balances out. IMHO both armies had some neat stuff previewed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Breton wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^I like how there's no mention of the new marine model releases either.

In fact, the warhammer community post has five Necron model releases, and six Marine ones.

I saw this:

GW Community wrote:We’ve already shown you some of the brand-new Adeptus Astartes units, but to save you from struggling to identify all 98 units, we’re going to show the rest right now!

and I'm already queasy. Are the Bladeguard Captain and Lieutenant not new because they didn't get sprue upgrades like the Assault Intercessors and Eradicators? Are they not going to be in the codex?

Just did a quick count of the current e-codex, so I may have missed one or counted one twice as I scroll and count at the time time, but I came up with 76 sheets. Add 8 new ones (I think the Chaplain is still the same data sheet) from Indomitus you're at 84. Another freaking Primaris Captain is 85. 3 Speeders is 88. That leaves 10. Was there another boxed set with new stuff after the second codex? Did I miscount by 10? Did they actually not show us all the new stuff? Did some of the other codex unique stuff jump over to the main codex instead of their eventual supplement so it's not technically "new"? Did more than 10 of these sheets jump that way, and some of the old sheets went to legends?

just as worrying, no multi-part outrider kit. THAT scares me

the techmarine, gladiator tank, firestrike turret & hammerfall come to mind.

BrianDavion wrote:


just as worrying, no multi-part outrider kit. THAT scares me

I'm worried they'll be discontinued, but I don't worry they won't be multipart. They won't be that difficult to customize when you only really have the one arm to customize, the rest of the model pretty much has to be static - sitting in the saddle, two boots on the pedals, at least one hand on the handlebars... Not a lot of posing options, so add some cosmetic frills and some alternate arms and the kit isn't going to change much if at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Racerguy180 wrote:
the techmarine, gladiator tank, firestrike turret & hammerfall come to mind.

Those would be brand new, but the post said they were going to show us all the new stuff right now. I don't see a techmarine, tank, or turrets aside from the ones on the speeders and those have similar but different names suggesting a naming convention but not a datasheet. Are they in there and they just forgot to tell/show us something or are they still waiting in limbo with the Marine ATV thing for some upcoming boxed set?

Right, give me the release schedules and strip out the supplements since they're almost 100% guaranteed to be model free filler releases alongside something else.

You get:
Marines
Crons
Death Guard

Oh look it's a fair spread and thats over a 2 month window.

Unless you want all those precious none imperium books releasing with 0 model support just to rush them out in a 2 month window, quit whining.

Dudeface wrote:
Right, give me the release schedules and strip out the supplements since they're almost 100% guaranteed to be model free filler releases alongside something else.

You get:
Marines
Crons
Death Guard

Oh look it's a fair spread and thats over a 2 month window.

Unless you want all those precious none imperium books releasing with 0 model support just to rush them out in a 2 month window, quit whining.

Hey look you just gotta strip out everything with marine in and...

Xenos

W o w! Can people stop complaining already??

 Eonfuzz wrote:
W o w! Can people stop complaining already??

It'd be nice, wouldn't it?

 Eonfuzz wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Right, give me the release schedules and strip out the supplements since they're almost 100% guaranteed to be model free filler releases alongside something else.

You get:
Marines
Crons
Death Guard

Oh look it's a fair spread and thats over a 2 month window.

Unless you want all those precious none imperium books releasing with 0 model support just to rush them out in a 2 month window, quit whining.

Hey look you just gotta strip out everything with marine in and...

Xenos

W o w! Can people stop complaining already??

You know what you're right, let's start counting white dwarf articles, black library releases and warhammer community articles as well.

Point is there are 3 codex out this year, accept it, be thankful and move on. Rushing out model free xenos codex wouldn't please people.

Dudeface wrote:
Right, give me the release schedules and strip out the supplements since they're almost 100% guaranteed to be model free filler releases alongside something else.

You get:
Marines
Crons
Death Guard

Oh look it's a fair spread and thats over a 2 month window.

Unless you want all those precious none imperium books releasing with 0 model support just to rush them out in a 2 month window, quit whining.

Lol you know there's going to be constant marine releases scattered in there.

Hecaton wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Right, give me the release schedules and strip out the supplements since they're almost 100% guaranteed to be model free filler releases alongside something else.

You get:
Marines
Crons
Death Guard

Oh look it's a fair spread and thats over a 2 month window.

Unless you want all those precious none imperium books releasing with 0 model support just to rush them out in a 2 month window, quit whining.

Lol you know there's going to be constant marine releases scattered in there.

After the dark angels supplement, what is there left to release?

Dudeface wrote:


After the dark angels supplement, what is there left to release?

Naughty Marines.

Breton wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


After the dark angels supplement, what is there left to release?

Naughty Marines.

I thought that was this wave since they clearly did a gak in everyone's cereal by having the audacity to exist?

Breton wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


just as worrying, no multi-part outrider kit. THAT scares me

I'm worried they'll be discontinued, but I don't worry they won't be multipart.

Yeah, that makes sooo much sense.
What in the world would lead you to that conclusion when....

Mono-build or multi, they'll just come out later. Like oh say.... When the DA book arrives next year. (and I'll bet a White Scars book comes out near the same time). You know, since both the DA & WS are well known for their bike formations. Oh look, GW just coveniently has a new bike unit that can piggyback with these books release-wise for max hype.

ccs wrote:

Breton wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


just as worrying, no multi-part outrider kit. THAT scares me

I'm worried they'll be discontinued, but I don't worry they won't be multipart.

Yeah, that makes sooo much sense.
What in the world would lead you to that conclusion when....

Mono-build or multi, they'll just come out later. Like oh say.... When the DA book arrives next year. (and I'll bet a White Scars book comes out near the same time). You know, since both the DA & WS are well known for their bike formations. Oh look, GW just coveniently has a new bike unit that can piggyback with these books release-wise for max hype.

Given they've said that the current Supplements will continue as-is, why would you suspect a WS book early next year?

ccs wrote:

Breton wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


just as worrying, no multi-part outrider kit. THAT scares me

I'm worried they'll be discontinued, but I don't worry they won't be multipart.

Yeah, that makes sooo much sense.

I meant it would be more likely they get the Suppressor treatment than get a posable model kit. There isn't enough to pose.

What in the world would lead you to that conclusion when....

Mono-build or multi, they'll just come out later. Like oh say.... When the DA book arrives next year. (and I'll bet a White Scars book comes out near the same time). You know, since both the DA & WS are well known for their bike formations. Oh look, GW just coveniently has a new bike unit that can piggyback with these books release-wise for max hype.

If Outriders become the Primaris bikes, they'll be in the main Codex, and get a kit now, not with the Supplements. The starter set comes with them, so I really really doubt they're getting the Suppressor treatment. I think they're getting a stand alone kit and nothing changes. I do think there's a surprise or two on the datasheets they didn't show us. Outriders can do 3+3 or even 3+3+3. Eradicators can do 3+3 stuff like that. They worked awful hard to show you parts of datasheets but not that kind of stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Given they were in Indomitus that sold like hotcakes plus the starter sets, I expect they get a stand alone, but not for a while as people who want them likely already have them.

Dudeface wrote:
Right, give me the release schedules and strip out the supplements since they're almost 100% guaranteed to be model free filler releases alongside something else.

You get:
Marines
Crons
Death Guard

Oh look it's a fair spread and thats over a 2 month window.

Unless you want all those precious none imperium books releasing with 0 model support just to rush them out in a 2 month window, quit whining.

You’re making 2 massive assumptions:

most of the supplements already released came with a new model

That all the xenos codexes will be getting models. I highly doubt that GSC for example will be getting more models this soon, tyranids haven’t got a single hint of a new model in a long time

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
So GW unveiled the next books in line and 3/4 are marine supplements. The other one is still a power armor codex. I just don’t get how anyone could think that four variations of the same army is a good way to usher in the same edition. It’s a slap in the face to anyone who doesn’t play marines. At this point I’m not even in a hurry to see the CSM book just to encourage table variety.

Some other points of concern is that Death Guard looks like a separate bike meaning that Nurgle’s chosen are going to miss out on options again. Guess it’s too bad if you had any Death Guard bikers or havoks. Also anyone want to take a guess at the heavy intercessor price? 3 wound T5 troops sounds a little nuts.

When I was little, we were taught: Patience is a virtue. I guess that isn't the case anymore.

Let's see what comes before we decide to shoot the messenger. There are a lot of 40K things in the rumor mill, many of them don't look like marines.

Although I am a bit tired of the glut of Power Armor(yet happy DG gets an early release) I do think there is a potential silver lining GW willing. With this last reveal of SM stuff they've kinda filled up all the slots for Primaris and made the Firstborn-Primaris upgrade a near future possibility. At this point the only thing they can release for Space Marines are character sculpts meaning that there should be design slots opening up for more non-Marine stuff.

I mean, if they do more big releases of Marine stuff like this they will just be watering down the line that currently stands at what 95 entries? At this point we have a primaris equivalent for every Firstborn model except maybe the Whirlwind and obscure stuff no one uses like the Stalker. Maybe Terminators, but that depends on how they view Aggressors and Gravis armor in relation to them.

 Eldarsif wrote:
Although I am a bit tired of the glut of Power Armor(yet happy DG gets an early release) I do think there is a potential silver lining GW willing. With this last reveal of SM stuff they've kinda filled up all the slots for Primaris and made the Firstborn-Primaris upgrade a near future possibility. At this point the only thing they can release for Space Marines are character sculpts meaning that there should be design slots opening up for more non-Marine stuff.

I mean, if they do more big releases of Marine stuff like this they will just be watering down the line that currently stands at what 95 entries? At this point we have a primaris equivalent for every Firstborn model except maybe the Whirlwind and obscure stuff no one uses like the Stalker. Maybe Terminators, but that depends on how they view Aggressors and Gravis armor in relation to them.

A lot of characters left, plus aircraft. Primaris don't have a fighter/bomber or a Transport aircraft. And I am absolutely devastated that a Storm Raven can carry around a Dread hanging on to the rear ramp, but G isn't allowed to do that. Some stuff has been hinted/leaked but it also wasn't in this list from GW so it's not finished yet. Unless they just considered stuff that hasnt already leaked "new". The ATV/Attack Bike replacement. The tank, a few others. But they'll almost certainly be out this edition. When/If they're ready we're going to see a tidal wave of characters from the Big Four get Primaris sculpts

The Bellicatus launcher on the Impulsor does the Whirlwind and the.. Hunter? Stalker? The Missile launching anti air.