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2020/10/07 11:13:34
Subject: Re:Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Papsikels doesn't have the biggest sci-fi pack in the world, but at only £4.50 plus VAT, he's really quite competitively priced in a world afloat with ten pound subscriptions. On top of the miniature sbelow, he sometimes gives away some bases or terrain on top. Very good value for money. He does a fantasy version as well if that's your cup of tea.
https://www.patreon.com/papsikels
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/07 11:42:14
2020/10/08 08:16:56
Subject: Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Oh Papsikels has some interesting bits and pieces in there.
For a more fantasy based one Crippled God Foundry (https://www.patreon.com/crippledgodfoundry/posts) sometimes have some interesting sets. This month is cultists and some Lovecraft inspired monsters
Some of the cultists have modular hands, so I spent last night turning them into pulp cultists using the handguns from another patreon
Lord of the Print (https://www.patreon.com/lordoftheprint) - maybe my favorite sculptor, with excellent dragons (that I might one day print one of?) and even better lithe, weird alien things
Next month is an expansive Illithid set, so I'll probably be back
Finally, has no one mentioned Artisan Guild (https://www.patreon.com/ArtisanGuild)? IMO it's one of the best sources for KOW / fantasy army minis, thanks to the modular grunts, plentiful heroes and big center piece monster in each set. Annnnd the obligatory cheesecake mini, which I will freely admit is often the only mini I've printed from the sets I've bought As with everything on my list, there's certainly a personal style involved here too.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/10/16 15:51:40
I've just scoured Patreon pretty exhaustively to try and find any remaining40K/Sci-Fi/Cyberpunk artists not yet. mentioned. Here's what I came up with:-
Vidovic Arts is having a very happy Orktober with a new Wartrak and generally specialises in 40K bits and bobs.
https://www.patreon.com/VidovicArts
3DHexes does some really nifty scenery that doesn't look like much at first sight, but is much bigger and more detailed than you expect when you look at the better shots. Useful for all sorts.
https://www.patreon.com/3dhexes
AlbinoRaven has some great sci-fi stuff in the welcome pack but be warned:- most of their monthly stuff is more modern military themed.
https://www.patreon.com/AlbinoRavenMini
VoidRealm Minis has some...frankly disturbing daemonic sculpts in there. Very useful if you're a daemon player or want to make a daemon world of some sort.
https://www.patreon.com/voidrealmminis
Terrain4Print does a variety of terrain, ranging from D&D style to Sci-Fi Urban/industrial. Of special note is that a one month subscription gets you absolutely everything he's ever done.
https://www.patreon.com/terrain4print
Bestiarum Miniatures is more of a fantasy themed one, so I'd normally pass it over. But certainly for this month at least, there's some really nice Slaanesh themed daemons up for grabs.
https://www.patreon.com/BestiarumMiniatures
Ending on a strong note, UNIT9 is a dedicated Cyberpunk patreon, with a full pack of such each month.
https://www.patreon.com/unit9
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/17 10:52:48
2020/10/17 11:42:02
Subject: Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
I picked up the Worlds Overrun strata portal. It prints really nicely and looks awesome, but I have yet to glue the thing together and I'm a bit worried about its stability. I'll report on progress shortly
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
I am a fellow 3D printer and also have a Patreon site. Am I allowed to advertise for it myself in here? If not let me know.
I play miniature games myself and have a thing for bases - so I am making different thematic bases to pop up otherwise cool models. Check it out here:
edit: I'm not allowed to post a link, you can search for my name: "MichaeltheNerd"
Fairly new to Patreon so any CC is most welcome!
2020/10/18 22:17:43
Subject: Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Here are some shots of the Worlds Overrun Strata Portal. I've not finished gluing it together quite yet, but here are some WIPs
Main platform to the left, stability base to the right. There is also an in between bit that links the base to the platform, but I dont have any pics of that just now.
Platform detail.
Base detail
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
I am a fellow 3D printer and also have a Patreon site. Am I allowed to advertise for it myself in here? If not let me know.
I play miniature games myself and have a thing for bases - so I am making different thematic bases to pop up otherwise cool models. Check it out here:
edit: I'm not allowed to post a link, you can search for my name: "MichaeltheNerd"
The linking thing may be because you're new to the site, so I'll do it for you
I think my one piece of feedback is price brackets. For a set of bases, that's quite expensive compared to a number of other patreons kicking around that seem to throw the bases in as an afterthought along with all their figures, especially where you have your top tier set with no actual benefits set apart form the extra pillar. For now it may make more sense to have a few things like the pillar build up into a welcome pack that everyone gets so that people have an idea of the quality they would get if/when you do open up the top tier. I'd also consider baking in print license details to the top tier as people will want to be able to resell to people that can't print themselves.
I think you are right about the prices.. The competition on Patreon is huge and I'm just 1 guy making these bases.
What would be a better price point for the tiers?
I have thought about a welcome package, just didn't think I had enough to put into it yet. Will work on that for sure.
Good point about the print license - something I have seen elsewhere as well but I have no clue how that works practically or legally.
Any thoughts on the actual bases?
2020/10/19 14:49:06
Subject: Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Yeah, Patreons can be tough to get a good base until you show a solid track record of output - otherwise people are not willing to keep up the charge each month. The most successful Patreons are those that do produce quite a bit each month; otherwise, just one and done might be the way to to - buy this set now for 'x' and I will let you know when i have more.
Speaking as someone with over £100 pcm right now in patreon .stl subscriptions (I know, shut up), I cast an eye over your page and dismissed it pretty quickly. Not one other subscriber (making it high risk), no early bird tier, a sporadic release track record, and a 'meh' return for my investment both in terms of quality and quantity.
That all having been said, I think that there is a place for a bases patreon, and I think it could be successful. But trying to piecemeal it out as something you do on the side is actually going to hurt you more right now than treating it like a proper business venture. The fact you've been dipping in and out of it and had so little success is proof of that.
There's a commercial way of doing this. The first thing you do is close up shop on Patreon for now. Trying to spit out the odd product with as low a bar for theme as 'rocks' might be a good way of developing your sculpting skills, but it sucks as marketing. You want more interesting themes and more of them. Look at Dragonforge for good ideas.
Take your time and build up a reserve of stuff whilst honing your skills. It'll mean that you're not running from month to month desperately trying to keep up; because you've got stuff lined up already. Ideally, assuming that a 'theme' is the average base set (10x25mm, 10x 32mm, 5x 40mm, 2x 60mm, 5x 70x25mm (bike size), and 1x120mm (with flight stand option) - you want to have a saucy intro pack of two or three really interesting sets, and then two themes released a month. So you'll want fifteen sets total in the bank, in reserve, and ready to be put out before you open shop.
Then you launch. Spend a little money on facebook advertising, perhaps try and do a free theme that you can offer to another big patreon for free in exchange for a link (Makers Cult or the like would be obvious here - I know they do that stuff), and so on. Basically get some buzz going for the first month or two - you want a strong launch. Try and offer a cheap early bird to suck in that first fifty subscribers, then one or two loyalty/promotion rewards to help keep traction. Get the word spreading and get yourself a sold foundation of patreon subscribers so that you can quit your day job and focus on it properly. And then take it from there.
You do all that, and I reckon you'll be successful. I'd certainly sign up. More importantly, I'd probably stay past the welcome pack too (something a lot of patreons struggle with). But it does require a fair bit of hard work to prep for, and it won't be an overnight thing. It really comes down to treating it like a commercial venture, preparing the product in advance, and launching properly. Otherwise, you'll be probably just skate around with relatively little success until you give up.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/10/19 18:15:36
2020/10/19 18:16:02
Subject: Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Kid_Kyoto wrote: One thing that's become obvious is we need a set of consistent non-GW names.
Therefore I propose:
Battleaxe in the 401st Century
The Immortal Son of Heaven rules the Galaxy from the Celestial Throne, among his servants are the superhuman Star Samurai, the fanatical female warriors the Niso and the endless ranks of the Ashigaru.
Arrayed against him are alien races including the savage Goblinoids, the technologically advanced Mecha Republic, the aloof Ancient Ones and the mysterious Chrome Pharaohs.
But the true foes are the Eldrich Horrors from beyond reality. The Eldrich Horrors themselves can only manifest for a brief period of time and much rely on moral servants such as the mutated Fomorians and worst of all the traitor Samurai known as um... Fallen Samurai?
OK it's harder than it looks, but some consistency would be welcome.
The best one I've found so far is "Cold Nova Mecha of the Space Communoid Fish Fellows."
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/10/19 18:51:20
Subject: Re:Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
A lot of stuff to think about.
It looks like I need to make more with cheaper tiers in order to compete.
Maybe Patreon is not the optimal place, unless I do as you suggest and make stuff to have in reserve. Hmmm
You think 2 themes a month with how my tiers are set up now would be good?
Or should I have less tiers/cheaper/less bases etc.
Another question I have about Patreon is: How much of it is considered buying an actual product and how much is considered "donation" (like you would do with livestreamers fx)?
I view it as a product I make, but Patreon has lots of other stuff like Podcasts, blogs etc. so I'm not really sure.
2020/10/19 18:53:04
Subject: Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Speaking of stores, what about selling your base set files directly? Without the monthly subscription (for now). MyMiniFactory or setting up your own site or so on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/19 18:53:26
A lot of stuff to think about.
It looks like I need to make more with cheaper tiers in order to compete.
Maybe Patreon is not the optimal place, unless I do as you suggest and make stuff to have in reserve. Hmmm
It's as much for your mental health as anything, for the reason in my third response below
Another question I have about Patreon is: How much of it is considered buying an actual product and how much is considered "donation" (like you would do with livestreamers fx)?
I view it as a product I make, but Patreon has lots of other stuff like Podcasts, blogs etc. so I'm not really sure.
For me, as someone who wants 40K usable stuff and generic sci-fi/cyberpunk, there's about £180 a month worth of solid Patreon subscriptions available to choose from (if I wanted everything). Most people simply don't have that kind of money, and that means that they're shopping for product. There are a few Patreons which people sponsor for more charitable reasons because they want the content and patreon to do well (look at Davale Games for an example), but if you're pumping out a generic product (terrain, bases, dudes with laser guns), there's no reason for anyone to sponsor out of sentimental reasons. Which reduces it to a business transaction, or 'What do I get for my buck?' Especially when there's twenty odd other companies competing for that same budget of however much a month I can afford.
You think 2 themes a month with how my tiers are set up now would be good?
Or should I have less tiers/cheaper/less bases etc.
I think that if you're going to compete with the other twenty companies clamouring for my quids, you need to offer me an attractive product consistently and affordably. Not too cheaply I hasten to add, you need to be able to pay your bills. The £8 plus VAT mark is standard for Patreon (as it works out to about £10/$12). Doing fifty subscriptions at £5/$7 and than another tier at the higher price should be cheap enough. If I got two themes a month for that, I'd consider it a fair price. And if the product is good, I'll stick around for it.
Something to consider in trying to pump out two themes a month however, is your work capacity. If you've nothing in reserve and you get ill, what then? What if you want a holiday? The more sets you have stored in your metaphorical bank, the more wiggle room you have, and the less mental stress you've got. When you're working on your own for yourself, you can't take the risk of playing your cards that loosely. And you simply won't have the time to make a living another way if you're to pump out two cool themes reliably every month minimum. You want to be financially secure, not flailing because you're two months in, out of premade stuff, your wife just got ill, and now all your new patrons are jumping ship.
Having the breathing room also gives you time to play with new ideas (maybe terrain), working on advertising, and generally improving the business model beyond just frantically sculpting all day every day.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/19 19:28:46
2020/10/19 19:51:14
Subject: Re:Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
A lot of stuff to think about.
It looks like I need to make more with cheaper tiers in order to compete.
Maybe Patreon is not the optimal place, unless I do as you suggest and make stuff to have in reserve. Hmmm
You think 2 themes a month with how my tiers are set up now would be good?
Or should I have less tiers/cheaper/less bases etc.
Another question I have about Patreon is: How much of it is considered buying an actual product and how much is considered "donation" (like you would do with livestreamers fx)?
I view it as a product I make, but Patreon has lots of other stuff like Podcasts, blogs etc. so I'm not really sure.
I'm not sure how they treat artists money-wise, but I buy all my non-Patreon files there, and they're increasingly being used to distribute KS files as well. Which suggests they've got the infrastructure needed, as well as store front, etc.
Do you think it would make more sense for me to move to MyMiniFactory as Boss Salvage suggested?
Then I don't have to compete with the 20 companies as you said, and I'm less vulnerable to set backs as you describe.
Thanks lord_blackfang, interesting video
MMF seems to be solely focused on 3D printing, which might be an advantage?
2020/10/19 20:49:03
Subject: Re:Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Do you think it would make more sense for me to move to MyMiniFactory as Boss Salvage suggested?
Then I don't have to compete with the 20 companies as you said, and I'm less vulnerable to set backs as you describe.
That's a different business model altogether, although not completely incompatible with the first.
From what I've seen, a goodly number of the .stl businesses work with Patreon as the first line of income. It covers their production and day to to day living costs/expenses. If you can hit two hundred subscribers paying you $10 each, minus the 5% from patreon and whatever your local taxes are (say, 15% as an example), you've got a reliable income of around $1700 a month. That's respectable enough as a starting point for something where you're your own boss.
Then what you do is you shuffle your back catalogue of whatever you've developed each month into one or more of three channels:-
(a) Producing them in resin or printing them and selling them yourself through your own webstore.
(b) Subcontracting the above out to somebody else.
(c) Listing the stl's on CG Trader, MMF, or another place for sale.
The product cycle then becomes as follows:-
1. Develop product based on feedback and add to bank.
2. Release product to Patreon for a month and then remove it.
3. Re-release product through other channel(s) at a higher price (usually double minimum) to make additional revenue.
As time goes on, your back catalogue will contribute a greater amount to your income. I spent fifty quid the other week at the Makers Cult CGTrader store for stuff that they made and released on Patreon before I joined in. That's in addition to my monthly subscription. So they've had sixty out of me this month. The larger your back catalogue, the more cash you can derive from it, it's an appreciating asset.
Additionally, most people bump up the prices when selling post-Patreon, and that's one of the main lures of getting people to subscribe. When I look at the aforementioned Makers cult, I might be paying ten quid, but I'm getting what will be sixty or seventy quid's worth of files post-Patreon. That's a real incentive to get me to stay on, as it means that I only need one or two good files every other month to justify the cost. And that reliability of income works well for the company when it comes to making their own budgets. They know that as long as they can offer me even one thing every other month worth my interest, they'll keep my subscription.
When it comes to bases, let's say that you're charging $10 on Patreon for two themes with the composition I mentioned above (10x25mm, 10x 32mm, 5x 40mm, 2x 60mm, 5x 70x25mm (bike size), and 1x120mm (with flight stand option)) per month. At the end of the month, you remove it from Patreon, and split it into two themes for $20 each on another site. Then you order in a pile of them in resin from a third party manufacturer so you can sell physical packs (say, ten 25mm or ten 30mm, or 5 40mm, etc for £6 a pack or whatever - depends on costs).
You've suddenly got three income streams. The Patreon remains the initial engine, it's the running mechanism that pays developmental costs and living expenses. But the two other revenues can be diverted towards expanding your offering, branching into other areas, subsidising a Kickstarter project, or just beefing up your daily income (if you don't want any additional complication).
From my observations, that's how the majority of these companies have started and developed over the last two years. It's a very young market, so it's interesting to see how it'll develop. But with the new 3d printers just hitting, 3d printing is finally (I would say) just about cost affordable for the average punter. And whilst plenty of people chuck in the odd base set to their Patreons, there's no dedicated Patreon or 3d company out there right now (unlike in resin where there's a dozen). So the niche is certainly there for an early mover.
Heck, I'd think about it myself if I didn't have so much else on.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2020/10/19 20:54:42
2020/10/19 21:36:23
Subject: Re:Favorite Patreons or other direct to artist sources?
Quick question for those selling STLs through Patreon: how do you prevent people from simply sharing the files around or tweaking it slightly and selling them off as their own?
As with everything on my list, there's certainly a personal style involved here too.
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
