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stinkyjunk wrote: Also looks like the Space Wolves are missing Iron Priests and Wolf Priests (except for the 1 special character).
Quite a few entries in Codex Space Marines have a [If Space Wolves, gains X keyword] clause. Pretty sure Chaplains and Techpriests work that way.
Same for Ravenwing and Deathwing, incidentally.
And now we can't advance and charge with Wulfen...but can with all the Thunderwolves. But the biggest is that NONE of the original Relics or Strategems are available...just those from Saga of the Beast. Good bye wulfen stone and armor of russ...it was great while it lasted.
(some of) those relics will probably come back with the supplement in a couple weeks.
Expected. Keep in mind its not a 'universal' Xenos thing. Tau and Craftworlds got flamer (and powersword) upgrades, because they use the same name weapons.
The rest we knew would happen when the codexes rolled around. For example the Necron Triarch Stalker has the heat ray, which functions like a multimelta or a flamer. It got buffed up to the new weapon stats.
Yeah the 2 things that doesn't really matter, and it wasn't even all flamers but 1 flamer out of many. Everyone knows how bad Fire Dragons are now compare toe Eradicators (yes yes yes everything is bad compare, but you get the point) this was the PERFECT time to say "Hey CWE players, here is something at least" but nope.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
Expected. Keep in mind its not a 'universal' Xenos thing. Tau and Craftworlds got flamer (and powersword) upgrades, because they use the same name weapons.
The rest we knew would happen when the codexes rolled around. For example the Necron Triarch Stalker has the heat ray, which functions like a multimelta or a flamer. It got buffed up to the new weapon stats.
Yeah the 2 things that doesn't really matter, and it wasn't even all flamers but 1 flamer out of many. Everyone knows how bad Fire Dragons are now compare toe Eradicators (yes yes yes everything is bad compare, but you get the point) this was the PERFECT time to say "Hey CWE players, here is something at least" but nope.
I mean, it wasn't a perfect time, since they've said for months that they're not doing that.
Just the shared weapons on the list, and everything else wasn't going to change until the relevant codex.
I get the frustration, but what you're asking for was denied nearly two months ago:
August 13th wrote:‘But what about my lovely xenos army?’ we hear you cry. Don’t worry – your weaponry will get the same treatment! While most of their wargear may not be as ubiquitous as the Imperium’s mass-produced arsenal, their weapons will also be looked at too, when each of their codexes comes around.
Expected. Keep in mind its not a 'universal' Xenos thing. Tau and Craftworlds got flamer (and powersword) upgrades, because they use the same name weapons.
The rest we knew would happen when the codexes rolled around. For example the Necron Triarch Stalker has the heat ray, which functions like a multimelta or a flamer. It got buffed up to the new weapon stats.
Yeah the 2 things that doesn't really matter, and it wasn't even all flamers but 1 flamer out of many. Everyone knows how bad Fire Dragons are now compare toe Eradicators (yes yes yes everything is bad compare, but you get the point) this was the PERFECT time to say "Hey CWE players, here is something at least" but nope.
I mean, it wasn't a perfect time, since they've said for months that they're not doing that.
Just the shared weapons on the list, and everything else wasn't going to change until the relevant codex.
I get the frustration, but what you're asking for was denied nearly two months ago:
August 13th wrote:‘But what about my lovely xenos army?’ we hear you cry. Don’t worry – your weaponry will get the same treatment! While most of their wargear may not be as ubiquitous as the Imperium’s mass-produced arsenal, their weapons will also be looked at too, when each of their codexes comes around.
Oh my bad, sorry that they "technically" don't share the same "name" but did share and still do share the same rules for 25yrs. Stop being a fan boy and see how GW f over everyone but Imperial.
And we all know Imperial/marines are getting most the codices first, some armies will have ot wait a year, yep a full year without updates that this was suppose to help.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/05 18:48:41
broxus wrote: Well they screwed the Imperial Fists again and are the only chapter trait to get nerfed. Now you only get the +1 damage if it is in the devestator doctrine, with a heavy weapon, and the weapon is S7 or higher.
I’m beyond annoyed at GW for nerfing IF again. They were already the bottom tier of SMs now their supplement is basically useless. Why did they do this? It seemed they wanted you to be a bolter weapon heavy list, but now their supplement works on such a few weapon choices. In total you may get 2-5 extra damage a game due to this now seriously GW??? Why not just make it only work on bolter weapons or give us an entirely new ability to focus on bolter weapons?
Well I’m done with GW. The constant year long nerfs have been stupid to say the least.
GW didn't want damage 3 heavy bolter spam, or 2 damage 24 shot heavy onslaught gladiators.
Expected. Keep in mind its not a 'universal' Xenos thing. Tau and Craftworlds got flamer (and powersword) upgrades, because they use the same name weapons.
The rest we knew would happen when the codexes rolled around. For example the Necron Triarch Stalker has the heat ray, which functions like a multimelta or a flamer. It got buffed up to the new weapon stats.
Yeah the 2 things that doesn't really matter, and it wasn't even all flamers but 1 flamer out of many. Everyone knows how bad Fire Dragons are now compare toe Eradicators (yes yes yes everything is bad compare, but you get the point) this was the PERFECT time to say "Hey CWE players, here is something at least" but nope.
I mean, it wasn't a perfect time, since they've said for months that they're not doing that.
Just the shared weapons on the list, and everything else wasn't going to change until the relevant codex.
I get the frustration, but what you're asking for was denied nearly two months ago:
August 13th wrote:‘But what about my lovely xenos army?’ we hear you cry. Don’t worry – your weaponry will get the same treatment! While most of their wargear may not be as ubiquitous as the Imperium’s mass-produced arsenal, their weapons will also be looked at too, when each of their codexes comes around.
Oh my bad, sorry that they "technically" don't share the same "name" but did share and still do share the same rules for 25yrs. Stop being a fan boy and see how GW f over everyone but Imperial.
And we all know Imperial/marines are getting most the codices first, some armies will have ot wait a year, yep a full year without updates that this was suppose to help.
Its not 'being a fan boy' to not expect things you're explicitly told aren't happening.
If you're surprised that some armies have to wait for their codex to be updated after 9 editions of a one-at-a-time update cycle, I don't know what to tell you.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/05 18:57:39
this just means "we knew that the next Edition was already done while we wrote that book" and nothing more
always had been that way, no need to be suprised
Who believed that anyway? When it had rules made irrelevant with 9e. Even sisters codex was taunted as "9e in mind" yet had special rules made 100% useless and virtually useless as well.
Which sells better? "Buy this book despite new edition in horizon. It's designed it in mind!" or "buy this book! It will be invalidated in few months time!"
Voss wrote: Its not 'being a fan boy' to not expect things you're explicitly told aren't happening.
If you're surprised that some armies have to wait for their codex to be updated after 9 editions of a one-at-a-time update cycle, I don't know what to tell you.
I would be less if they hadn't clearly decided to use the points costs from playtesting of the new stats which we won't get untill we get the new codex's, which would be less egregious if we didnt know that will take over a year for some Codex's.
broxus wrote: Well they screwed the Imperial Fists again and are the only chapter trait to get nerfed. Now you only get the +1 damage if it is in the devestator doctrine, with a heavy weapon, and the weapon is S7 or higher.
I’m beyond annoyed at GW for nerfing IF again. They were already the bottom tier of SMs now their supplement is basically useless. Why did they do this? It seemed they wanted you to be a bolter weapon heavy list, but now their supplement works on such a few weapon choices. In total you may get 2-5 extra damage a game due to this now seriously GW??? Why not just make it only work on bolter weapons or give us an entirely new ability to focus on bolter weapons?
Well I’m done with GW. The constant year long nerfs have been stupid to say the least.
GW didn't want damage 3 heavy bolter spam, or 2 damage 24 shot heavy onslaught gladiators.
Then just change the rule entirely these are things that could ready be done. It is utter garbage now and will likely net you 2-5 extra damage a game. I mean It only work in the devastator doctrine. IF are hands down with no debate the worst supplement and worst super trait now. They could have given bolt weapons a buff such as reroll ones in the tactical doctrine or something.
I kind of like chainfists more than other the alternatives... higher AP, about the same dammage as a powerfist but not as reliable at splatting MEQ's, but excellent and carving vehicles up and just as good at 3W models on average...
Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut
Tau got surprisingly more weapon updates than expected. 6 Ion weapons got updated despite not being part of the Imperial arsenal. However I don't know the difference between the new profile and the old profile, as I don't play Tau.
[edit]Maybe just replace "Roll of 1" with "Unmodified roll of 1"?[/edit]
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/05 20:24:00
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Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Tau got surprisingly more weapon updates than expected. 6 Ion weapons got updated despite not being part of the Imperial arsenal. However I don't know the difference between the new profile and the old profile, as I don't play Tau.
[edit]Maybe just replace "Roll of 1" with "Unmodified roll of 1"?[/edit]
Pretty sure. They just made the wound/kill yourself consistent with plasma.
Voss wrote: Its not 'being a fan boy' to not expect things you're explicitly told aren't happening.
If you're surprised that some armies have to wait for their codex to be updated after 9 editions of a one-at-a-time update cycle, I don't know what to tell you.
I would be less if they hadn't clearly decided to use the points costs from playtesting of the new stats which we won't get untill we get the new codex's, which would be less egregious if we didnt know that will take over a year for some Codex's.
Here's the thing: they didn't.
The CA2020 points and the new SM points are not the same. Neither (before people complain about 'but space marines') are necrons.
There is overlap, but quite a few things are different
Examples- basic terminator is 38 rather than 36, Impulsors went up 10, Repulsor are even more expensive, necron warriors are +1 ppm, flayed ones are -1 ppm, tesla carbines are 2 points, skorpekhs dropped 5 points each, wratihs are down 10, monoliths are up 90, etc, etc
--
The 'over a year' complaints are just amusing. Does no one else remember 5-10 year turn around for some armies?
I'm not sure if people are being unreasonably optimistic (and are going to be disappointed) or if GW made some promises I didn't see.
Updating the army books are traditionally an edition-long endeavor. Settle in.
Waiting for army updates is part of the Warhammer cycle, good or bad, its neither new nor surprising.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/10/05 20:49:30
Shouldn't the various types of heretic astartes and traitor legionaries get the two wound bump in these FAQs? Or are they waiting for each codex?
In that case it'll be hilarious if Black Legion plague marines and rubrics end up with 2 wounds while Deathguard and Thousand Sons still play with single wound guys.
Chamberlain wrote: Shouldn't the various types of heretic astartes and traitor legionaries get the two wound bump in these FAQs? Or are they waiting for each codex?
GW stated they would stay at their old wounds until their Codex was released.
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Just put a thing in the FAQ with the updated profile and points cost. A paragraph in three different PDFS that they are *updating anyway* is all it would take.
Just put a thing in the FAQ with the updated profile and points cost. A paragraph in three different PDFS that they are *updating anyway* is all it would take.
This whole edition just feels bungled so far.
They could have re-released the free rules from before with updated profiles, but the whole thing would have favored chaos a lot more than xenos. I suppose they could have just not updated anyone's stuff except space marines and necrons...
Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut
Who believed that anyway? When it had rules made irrelevant with 9e. Even sisters codex was taunted as "9e in mind" yet had special rules made 100% useless and virtually useless as well.
Which sells better? "Buy this book despite new edition in horizon. It's designed it in mind!" or "buy this book! It will be invalidated in few months time!"
People keep assuming "designed with 9th in mind" means "designed with 9th in mind, at a far higher quality level than normal". Misbalanced and error-ridden rules that get and/or need errata which may or may not totally change how a rule is played, that is how GW rules for a current edition work. If PA was designed with 9th in mind but also to actually function in the edition they were released this is exactly what I would expect to see.
it has always been that way with 3rd and 8th being the exception
yet this is also a way for GW to build up the hype to get the updates for the factions and keep people active by talking/complaining about it until it happens
there is no interest for GW to add updates for all factions at the same time
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
Here's the thing: they didn't.
The CA2020 points and the new SM points are not the same. Neither (before people complain about 'but space marines') are necrons.
There is overlap, but quite a few things are different
Examples- basic terminator is 38 rather than 36, Impulsors went up 10, Repulsor are even more expensive, necron warriors are +1 ppm, flayed ones are -1 ppm, tesla carbines are 2 points, skorpekhs dropped 5 points each, wratihs are down 10, monoliths are up 90, etc, etc
The weapons on their base models don't seem to have changed from MFM2020, obviously were extra wounds have been handed out yes they have changed.
But All the reports I have seen is weapons didnt change GW shuffled the cost of basically default loadouts to the models but 2000 points of MFM marines and 2000 points of Codex marines doesn't look like it's changed much especially when you discount the points added for extra wounds at 2-3 points per model.
stinkyjunk wrote: Also looks like the Space Wolves are missing Iron Priests and Wolf Priests (except for the 1 special character).
Also known as Techmarines and Chaplains...
Spoken like someone who doesn't or hasn't played Wolves. Iron Priests come default with Helfrost pistols and Tempest Hammers (and used to be able to ride Thunderwolves). Not Techmarines. The Wolves have never ever had Chaplains (and are big in the fluff of never ever going to have them). The Wolf Priests combined the role of the apothecary and chaplain into one, with the inclusion of (now litanies) and healing balms. Wolves cannot take Apothecaries, and can now no longer take Wolf Priests thus removing any healing ability from the army.
Voss wrote: The 'over a year' complaints are just amusing. Does no one else remember 5-10 year turn around for some armies?
I'm not sure if people are being unreasonably optimistic (and are going to be disappointed) or if GW made some promises I didn't see.
Updating the army books are traditionally an edition-long endeavor. Settle in.
Waiting for army updates is part of the Warhammer cycle, good or bad, its neither new nor surprising.
The problem is... GW have now shown us multiple times that the wait needn't be that long.
First up, everybody got an Index at the start of 8th, followed by new Codexes for everybody within 3 years (and most well within 2). That's with an update to the new datasheet system and to brand new power-levels, which meant a complete rework of the army lists for each faction.
While we're now in a new edition, the studio should be familiar enough with datasheets that you can't really use that as an excuse for slowing down.
Lastly, they've just shown us that Codexes can in fact be released two at a time - and full Codexes too, not supplement size. And speaking of supplements - we now know that a full 4 books that would previously have been full Codexes, will now be supplements instead - so that's got to free up a lot of room in the schedule.
It's true that rushing the Codexes out that fast may well have been a big reason for some of those Codexes being lackluster and underpowered (*cough*ELDAR*cough*ORKS*cough*DAEMONS).
But it remains that not only can Codexes be released quicker than the old days... people will now expect it to be quicker.
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
over everyone but Imperial.
if they hadn't clearly decided to use the points costs from playtesting of the new stats which we won't get untill we get the new codex's, which would be less egregious if we didnt know that will take over a year for some Codex's.
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch 