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 KRakarth wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
It also creates a massive workload imbalance, geared towards crunching, rather than spreading the work out for the team over an edition's lifecycle. Not to mention, that leaves you much less room to take onboard feedback from tournaments etc for what can be improved from this edition.
I don't believe anyone who seriously thinks crunching out the Codexes in one go has ever come close to running a successful business.

Ever heard if the video games industry?

I've both heard of and seen the result of that, yeah. At any rate, discussing all codex being released at once is irrelevant; it will not happen. The reasons are many, from development crunch to stocking to linking it up with model design to sales inconsistency.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Should have done 9th Edition Indexes for all but Marines and Necrons (with new codexes)

And override every book in print in one go?

Again, 9th didn't need an Index for every army because every Codex in print is still valid. This isn't the shift like 7th to 8th was.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Should have done 9th Edition Indexes for all but Marines and Necrons (with new codexes)

And override every book in print in one go?

Again, 9th didn't need an Index for every army because every Codex in print is still valid.

You point out the exact problem they want to highlight -old codexes are still valid.
GW decided to do a big change in the game system with more powerfull stats (or a bigger/more diverse scale). But they chose to just give it to lojalist marines for now. So, atleast weapons should have been updated Index style.

Its an awfull way to treat the customers. Together with the patchwork, soon to be invalidated, PA series, updated powerlevels and points in separate publications, poorly consistent FaQs and weird scenery supplements, 9th is just a huge mess. So its no wonder people think back to the plesant and balanced days of 8th edition Index rules -the golden age of 40k.

I dont see huge problem in reality though. Personally I play lots of armies, and could focus on my Space Wolves for now, but then again, most people I play with dont run loyalist marines, so in the end it probably ad up. And, i mean, factions like Daemons and Orks you dont expect to be competetive anyway

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Should have done 9th Edition Indexes for all but Marines and Necrons (with new codexes)

And override every book in print in one go?

Again, 9th didn't need an Index for every army because every Codex in print is still valid. This isn't the shift like 7th to 8th was.

Exactly. It's not a problem at all for armies like marines which got their 8th edition codex early in the edition, they got a codex 2.0 plus all supplements mid 8th edition AND they get a new codex in 9th edition.

Meanwhile armies like Tyranids have to wait possibly another year or even more, looking back and forth wondering how tf is it ok for other armies to be getting 3x the releases on rules and 140x the releases on models, all while knowing that even when their 9th edition codex comes, any bs still remaining (like the fact that they're the only army in the game still carrying over an army trait that's a penalty) they will have to stick with for the upcoming 4-5 years to go.

Because how dare they expect a 2.0 codex or any sort of fair treatment in PA kind of releases.

Overall, it's pretty damn poor of you to suggest "hey your codex is still valid, why are you complaining?"

Same problems we had in 6th with AA weapons only available with new Codex
or in 7th with formations

this is GW's business model to keep the game running as constant change and imbalance created by not every faction being up to date make people buy more than needed and keep them active waiting and talking about it

the main advantage here is for GW and there is no need to change it

 Fayric wrote:
You point out the exact problem they want to highlight -old codexes are still valid.

I don't see that as a problem. Invalidating all the Codices would be a massive "feth you" to the fanbase only one cycle into this new rules base.

 Fayric wrote:
GW decided to do a big change in the game system with more powerfull stats (or a bigger/more diverse scale). But they chose to just give it to lojalist marines for now. So, atleast weapons should have been updated Index style.

Weapons have been updated. We just got FAQs for that. And I wouldn't call what they did with Marines a "big change to the game system". It's a big change to Marines, and that's all.

 Fayric wrote:
Its an awfull way to treat the customers. Together with the patchwork, soon to be invalidated, PA series, updated powerlevels and points in separate publications, poorly consistent FaQs and weird scenery supplements, 9th is just a huge mess.

Those are all bad, but really have nothing to do with invalidating every 8th Codex to make yet another round of Indices, all of which would be invalidated almost as quickly as that Chapter Approve 2020 points book is about to be.

 Fayric wrote:
So its no wonder people think back to the plesant and balanced days of 8th edition Index rules -the golden age of 40k.

There was nothing pleasant or balanced about 8th. Anyone thinking that is delusional.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Because how dare they expect a 2.0 codex or any sort of fair treatment in PA kind of releases.

Why should anyone expect a 2.0 Codex within one edition?

The whole point of the PA books was to update all the armies prior to the launch of 9th, and from everything I've seen (and I'm a Tyranid player who focused almost exclusively on my 'Nids during my time with 8th), our PA was pretty good.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Overall, it's pretty damn poor of you to suggest "hey your codex is still valid, why are you complaining?"

Why? Who wants a book that gets invalidated the moment a new edition comes out.

The only downside to not having new Codices for everyone is that those races are missing out on the Crusade stuff. I really want the Tyranid and Chaos Crusade stuff, more than anything, but Marines and Necrons get it first.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
GW decided to do a big change in the game system with more powerfull stats (or a bigger/more diverse scale). But they chose to just give it to lojalist marines for now. So, atleast weapons should have been updated Index style.

Weapons have been updated. We just got FAQs for that. And I wouldn't call what they did with Marines a "big change to the game system". It's a big change to Marines, and that's all.

The only downside to not having new Codices for everyone is that those races are missing out on the Crusade stuff. I really want the Tyranid and Chaos Crusade stuff, more than anything, but Marines and Necrons get it first.

Oh really everyone's got weapon updates that's funny as GW has once again ignored the FW index's for all factions.
Yeah we now have Heavy 4 stubbers for only marines because GW competence, Fusion being melta with a different name just a straight up weaker version for more points.
Oh and all that D2 you'll need for marine's hope you never have to shoot it at a dreadnaught.

The balance in 9th between tiers of codex is so insane it's actually probably worse than 8th edition.

Ice_can wrote:

Yeah we now have Heavy 4 stubbers for only marines because GW competence,

Space Marines don't have stubbers, they have Ironhail stubbers, differant weapon, which you fething well know.

BrianDavion wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Yeah we now have Heavy 4 stubbers for only marines because GW competence,

Space Marines don't have stubbers, they have Ironhail stubbers, differant weapon, which you fething well know.

IronHail just means have free AP-1 not magical extra shots.
It's just GW putting out a minimum efforts FAQ so that marketing can claim they have updated all the factions.

Ice_can wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Yeah we now have Heavy 4 stubbers for only marines because GW competence,

Space Marines don't have stubbers, they have Ironhail stubbers, differant weapon, which you fething well know.

IronHail just means have free AP-1 not magical extra shots.
It's just GW putting out a minimum efforts FAQ so that marketing can claim they have updated all the factions.

Ironhail means whatever GW fething wants it to mean. THEY ARE DIFFERANT WEAPONS.

Look if GW made the boltgun range 30, would you be insisting GW had to have made the bolt rifle range 36 because "boltrifles are boltguns with extra range"?

now MAYBE when the guard get their dex GW'll revist the heavy stubber, but GW does not owe you a magic heavy stubber revamp just because a marine weapon that's similer got revamped.
As it is, I can't belive any guard player would be complaining given the MASSIVE upgrade to a number of weapons guard where just handed.

Ice_can wrote:
Oh really everyone's got weapon updates that's funny as GW has once again ignored the FW index's for all factions.

GW hasn't cared about FW rules for a long time, and they're not about to update rules they didn't write when they've got a book that they did write covering FW units coming up soon.

Ice_can wrote:
Yeah we now have Heavy 4 stubbers for only marines because GW competence...

Which has exactly zero relevance to anything I said in my previous post*...

Ice_can wrote:
Fusion being melta with a different name just a straight up weaker version for more points.

Ok? And? They said they'd update all the weapons that were the same. Some races don't have "Melta" weapons. They have "Fusion" weapons, so they updated anyone that had "Melta", and left the "Fusion" alone. For all we know, "Fusion" weapons could be in for a completely different set of rules when their time comes. Or, what is more likely, they were just updating all the same weapons across the game rather than worrying about slight racial variations (y'know, like the Death Guard not-Flamer, or the Thousand Sons not-Hand Flamer). They said they'd update Melta weapons across the board, and that's exactly what they did. You'll note that Eldar got Power Sword updates because they still use power swords, rather than something with a different name. Tau got Flamer updates because, you guessed it, they still use flamers. Tau don't use Melta weapons, so they didn't get updated. This isn't rocket science.

"But they updated Ion weapons!!!"

Yes, to bring them in line with the 9th wording for overload/get's hot/etc. special rules.

Ice_can wrote:
The balance in 9th between tiers of codex is so insane it's actually probably worse than 8th edition.

Ok... but none of that changes that GW updated exactly what they said they were going to update.

*I think Marines having Stubbers is bone-headed, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

True but it doesnt exactly agree with the part

The only downside to not having new Codices for everyone is that those races are missing out on the Crusade stuff. I really want the Tyranid and Chaos Crusade stuff, more than anything, but Marines and Necrons get it first.

If you don't share the name if a weapon you don't get the buffed damage output would be 1 downside.
They have added to the power imbalances in the game which aren't exactly small currently.

I agree they did what they actually committed to doing and in some ways actually a bit more by making the on 1 and on 6's rules all consistent finally.

Just instead of trying to bring the factions from 1 to 20 on the power creep scale to say 5 to 15 they decided not to bother and leave the faction imbalances in the dumpsterfire they created with MFM2020.

Also have you seen a release date for the FW book yet? Genuinely interested as this is the third time GW have said they are releasing that (now book was books before), my level of trust in them actually delivering the book is wearing thin.

It's like the release schedule has been delayed by about 3 months for some obscure reason.

dhallnet wrote:
It's like the release schedule has been delayed by about 3 months for some obscure reason.

You realise that GW said the FW book would be out over a year ago, this is a covid delay this is inter studio politics screwing over the consumer and managment not keeping the middle managment BS in check.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Weapons have been updated. We just got FAQs for that. And I wouldn't call what they did with Marines a "big change to the game system". It's a big change to Marines, and that's all.

Ah yes. Sad day for 40k when game is rendered as Imperium only.

Because obviously only imperium stuff is relevant. Nothing else exists. Imperium got toys updated, game is perfect.

I'm not aware of one that releases rules for all its factions in one go

Actually, outside of adding new models when they get sculpted and released, I cannot think of a popular game outside of FoW (is it still popular?) that doesn't drop all the stats with the new edition. Infinity does it, Malifaux does it, not sure about Privateer but they used to. Dropzone/Dropfleet certainly does. GW, Warlord Games (run largerly by GW refugees if I recall) and Battlefront are the main if not only ones sticking to the old model of not updating everything at once.
Except GW used to do it with 3rd ed 40k and 6th ed WFB, (and later mucked it up with codex/AB releases that superseded these army lists).

I would have been absolutely furious if they had made 9th edition indexes. So many books invalidated at one time, by another hold me over you would be paying for. Feth that.

So, we've gotten FAQs for weapons in a lot of codexes and supplements, including some we know have new books coming out soon, but still nothing for fw units. If we don't get a fw FAQ this week can we assume that the release of the Imperial Armour Compendium will be soon? Because most of units in that book are for loyalists, and I doubt gw will leave its favourite faction without updated rules for its resin toys for long.

GW doesn't particularly want gamers to buy the resin with lower profit margin than plastic so don't expect too much.

tneva82 wrote:
GW doesn't particularly want gamers to buy the resin with lower profit margin than plastic so don't expect too much.

Thanks. I've heard this argument from you about 672 times, do you think I didn't read the first 671?

Like literally every other time you've asked about it, we don't know when the FW book will be out. But it will be out sometime.
Continually asking about it or getting frustrated it's not out yet? That won't make it go faster.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Like literally every other time you've asked about it, we don't know when the FW book will be out. But it will be out sometime.
Continually asking about it or getting frustrated it's not out yet? That won't make it go faster.

No, it won't, but getting a FAQ for any weapons affected by the new rules would be nice. Sorry if my speculation bothers you.

tneva82 wrote:
Ah yes. Sad day for 40k when game is rendered as Imperium only.

It wasn't just Imperium that was updated. You know this.

Ice_can wrote:

dhallnet wrote:
It's like the release schedule has been delayed by about 3 months for some obscure reason.

You realise that GW said the FW book would be out over a year ago, this is a covid delay this is inter studio politics screwing over the consumer and managment not keeping the middle managment BS in check.

They said "shortly after 9ed", no ?

dhallnet wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

dhallnet wrote:
It's like the release schedule has been delayed by about 3 months for some obscure reason.

You realise that GW said the FW book would be out over a year ago, this is a covid delay this is inter studio politics screwing over the consumer and managment not keeping the middle managment BS in check.

They said "shortly after 9ed", no ?

No that was the 3rd self imposed deadline shift (after they announced 9th edition) having previously promised an updated before the middle of 8th.
Like seriously who actually is in control of the design team, as they really need to get some training on what project scheduling is.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/w3XH4n7yL3Ti1hW2.pdf

What about my Forge World Index books?

These will be changing.
Look out for a new range of books to support the
Warhammer 40,000 Forge World offer soon after the
release of the new edition.

Also don't forget we don't even have the codex for Marines nor Necrons. Two things that should have been hot on the heels of Indomitus. There is politics in GW regarding FW as well as management issues - but this is purely a covid situation messing up the release scheduled.

 Overread wrote:
Also don't forget we don't even have the codex for Marines nor Necrons. Two things that should have been hot on the heels of Indomitus. There is politics in GW regarding FW as well as management issues - but this is purely a covid situation messing up the release scheduled.

I'm surprised we got the PDF updates last weekend*. I thought they'd be out this weekend alongside the new Codices.




*Actually I think it's amazing that they updated the non-Marine armies at all. This isn't something GW did in the past. We'd just have Heavy Bolters with different profiles in two books for 6-months to a year until another book with HBs in them (Guard, Chaos, etc.) came out. And people still find a reason to complain.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Also don't forget we don't even have the codex for Marines nor Necrons. Two things that should have been hot on the heels of Indomitus. There is politics in GW regarding FW as well as management issues - but this is purely a covid situation messing up the release scheduled.

I'm surprised we got the PDF updates last weekend*. I thought they'd be out this weekend alongside the new Codices.

*Actually I think it's amazing that they updated the non-Marine armies at all. This isn't something GW did in the past. We'd just have Heavy Bolters with different profiles in two books for 6-months to a year until another book with HBs in them (Guard, Chaos, etc.) came out. And people still find a reason to complain.

I agree that some update for some armies (mostly Imperial) is good....its not as good as general Index update.

The other issue is the armies that are actually getting supplements soon got super special updates which will be replaced in a short time but the armies that wonlt get one for six months to a year got nothing.

Should it not be the other way round?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Also don't forget we don't even have the codex for Marines nor Necrons. Two things that should have been hot on the heels of Indomitus. There is politics in GW regarding FW as well as management issues - but this is purely a covid situation messing up the release scheduled.

I'm surprised we got the PDF updates last weekend*. I thought they'd be out this weekend alongside the new Codices.




*Actually I think it's amazing that they updated the non-Marine armies at all. This isn't something GW did in the past. We'd just have Heavy Bolters with different profiles in two books for 6-months to a year until another book with HBs in them (Guard, Chaos, etc.) came out. And people still find a reason to complain.

agreed. the whining from eldar players that they didn't get an update when the marine codex came out is honestly kind of hilarious.