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How are you guys handling squads of 6 Inceptors with Apo, reroll support, and deep strike screening?

Nap time Necron wrote:

Shame they got rid of obyrons ability to drag a squad along with him when he teleports. I think it would have been the niche that tipped the pair into seeing table time. Ultimately they'll never be a better choice than imotekh as they are now.

*blinks slowly twice*

*check codex*

Well,

Yeah that significantly lessens the attraction.

LiMunPai wrote:
How are you guys handling squads of 6 Inceptors with Apo, reroll support, and deep strike screening?

Yeah, 36 plasma shots into your warrior bricks really hurts eh.

I don't think there's one catch all way we have to deal with them tbh, as it depends on what chapter they are and/or whether your opponent reserves them or not. For arguments sake let's say the inceptors start on the board and they're not ultramarines, in which case you'll want something with either speed, range, or both. Speed will generally be our most consistent way of dealing with them as our longer range threats are fairly mediocre.

Personally, I love wraiths for this job, especially if you go for the 6" pre game move. They've got a base 2" extra move on the inceptors and can advance into cover in the mid board if you're not gonna catch the them turn 1, while threatening to pass straight through their screens in the next turn. Fall back and charge is very powerful on a 12" move unit with innate 4++. I'm not expecting the wraiths to wipe them in a turn by any stretch of the imagination, but I want those inceptors being harassed and falling back ASAP. As long as those inceptors aren't shooting, or at least aren't shooting at your warriors, you dont have to worry about them too much while the rest of your force pushes up.

Gauss tomb blades are pretty good for tackling the inceptors too, especially as Mephrit. Transhuman doesn't matter as you're wounding on 4s anyway, plus you've got a strat to turn your gauss into assault weapons which gives you a very efficient threat range advantage over them. TBs aren't generally prime targets for the inceptors either, and I think people often underestimate how much damage Mephrit TBs can dish out, especially if you start them in range of a MWBD character.

Finally, I think gauss immortals do have leg up in dealing with them, thanks to their range - although I think you'll want to build around them more if you intend to use them this way. I've ran 30 immortals with the 3" extra range and rapid fire from stationary custom dynasty a couple times now and that's worked fairly well in dealing with inceptors. The inceptors should want to move forward at that point as you outrange them, plus they dont really go efficiently into immortals (although I'm still expecting to lose the squad dont get me wrong). Then if they have moved up, between your movement and RF at 16.5", you should be able to cripple them next turn.

TheNEWnew wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:
How are you guys handling squads of 6 Inceptors with Apo, reroll support, and deep strike screening?

Yeah, 36 plasma shots into your warrior bricks really hurts eh.

I don't think there's one catch all way we have to deal with them tbh, as it depends on what chapter they are and/or whether your opponent reserves them or not. For arguments sake let's say the inceptors start on the board and they're not ultramarines, in which case you'll want something with either speed, range, or both. Speed will generally be our most consistent way of dealing with them as our longer range threats are fairly mediocre.

Personally, I love wraiths for this job, especially if you go for the 6" pre game move. They've got a base 2" extra move on the inceptors and can advance into cover in the mid board if you're not gonna catch the them turn 1, while threatening to pass straight through their screens in the next turn. Fall back and charge is very powerful on a 12" move unit with innate 4++. I'm not expecting the wraiths to wipe them in a turn by any stretch of the imagination, but I want those inceptors being harassed and falling back ASAP. As long as those inceptors aren't shooting, or at least aren't shooting at your warriors, you dont have to worry about them too much while the rest of your force pushes up.

Gauss tomb blades are pretty good for tackling the inceptors too, especially as Mephrit. Transhuman doesn't matter as you're wounding on 4s anyway, plus you've got a strat to turn your gauss into assault weapons which gives you a very efficient threat range advantage over them. TBs aren't generally prime targets for the inceptors either, and I think people often underestimate how much damage Mephrit TBs can dish out, especially if you start them in range of a MWBD character.

Finally, I think immortals do have leg up in dealing with them, thanks to their range - although I think you'll want to build around them more if you intend to use them this way. I've ran 30 immortals with the 3" extra range and rapid fire from stationary custom dynasty a couple times now and that's worked fairly well in dealing with inceptors. The inceptors should want to move forward at that point as you outrange them, plus they dont really go efficiently into immortals (although I'm still expecting to lose the squad dont get me wrong). Then if they have moved up, between your movement and RF at 16.5", you should be able to cripple them next turn.

That's a pretty solid answer; thanks for the thoughts.

I think the Inceptor problem is mostly related to TSK Novokh builds more than anything else. I think a build structure like TSK Novokh is just going to get hit with a cost of doing business tax against Inceptors. I've been using Lokhust Destroyers in my build to kill them back and just hoping my opponent hasn't doubled down on Inceptors, but it's still a painful exchange that takes some care in hiding and screening them. I think the lokhusts in the build as the 4th big squad is a good choice generally, though, with the plethora of CP available and chronomancers already supporting the build to up their durability.

For our cryptek builds, both 5++ scarabs and wraiths don't feel particularly threatened by the inceptors and can tie them up/chip away at them. Ultras, Ravenguard, and White Scars being able to fall back and shoot are mildly problematic, but the builds just screen anything that is particularly vulnerable pretty well. Just not bringing any or only 1 big squad is also an option for these builds.

An Immortal heavy build with a smaller unit size bent doesn't have as juicy targets for them. I think there's probably some Mephrit or mixed dynasty builds that do this well.

I think the lesson I take here is just to have a few different builds in my pocket to build around the metagame. That's aspirational currently, as I'm still painting up my Novokh TSK, but it certainly makes me want to dive into other builds with greater haste.

TheNEWnew wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:
How are you guys handling squads of 6 Inceptors with Apo, reroll support, and deep strike screening?

Yeah, 36 plasma shots into your warrior bricks really hurts eh.

Praying or ignoring doesn't help. Necrons have nothing which come close.
When I'm desperate I'll send my Wraiths or shoot them by a concentrated effort.

Doom Scythes dude. They solve all problems.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Doom Scythes dude. They solve all problems.

Definitely one of my favorite units.
But its not easy to integrate 3 of them (2 are fine) in an army.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Doom Scythes dude. They solve all problems.

Definitely one of my favorite units.
But its not easy to integrate 3 of them (2 are fine) in an army.

I am happy to run 2 and a DDa. A neat trick to use with them is to fly them off the table if suicide deep strike units are coming in the next turn.You can fly black on the next turn after they come in.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Doom Scythes dude. They solve all problems.

Doom Scythes are really bad against Inceptors if they use transhuman. The Heavy Death Ray hits twice, wounds 1 time, kills 1. The Tesla hits 10 times, wounds 5 times, saves down to 1.7 wounds if they don't use the strat to get a 2+ save against damage 1. If they have psychic fortress and the 3 CP in strats, it does 2.87 wounds on average. This gets significantly better if you spend your hit reroll and auto wound on it, but you could do the same with any big gun in your army. That makes the first Doom Scythe significantly better than any subsequent ones.

Under the same conditions, each Lokhust hits 2.33 times, wounds 1.75 times under the strat, saves to 1.16 through, for 2.32 damage. That makes the Lokhust 3 times as effective offensively for the points against this target, and I still don't think it's a good trade.

I didn't add an apo 6+ on top of that yet. They also come back 1 a turn if you don't wipe them due to that apo.

Gravis just have insane support options. With Inceptors having the ability to one round full units of Necrons, though, we need to get them off the board ASAP.

LiMunPai wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Doom Scythes dude. They solve all problems.

Doom Scythes are really bad against Inceptors if they use transhuman. The Heavy Death Ray hits twice, wounds 1 time, kills 1. The Tesla hits 10 times, wounds 5 times, saves down to 1.7 wounds if they don't use the strat to get a 2+ save against damage 1. If they have psychic fortress and the 3 CP in strats, it does 2.87 wounds on average. This gets significantly better if you spend your hit reroll and auto wound on it, but you could do the same with any big gun in your army. That makes the first Doom Scythe significantly better than any subsequent ones.

Under the same conditions, each Lokhust hits 2.33 times, wounds 1.75 times under the strat, saves to 1.16 through, for 2.32 damage. That makes the Lokhust 3 times as effective offensively for the points against this target, and I still don't think it's a good trade.

I didn't add an apo 6+ on top of that yet. They also come back 1 a turn if you don't wipe them due to that apo.

Gravis just have insane support options. With Inceptors having the ability to one round full units of Necrons, though, we need to get them off the board ASAP.

It is time you people catch on to the good ole Szarekhan (which is by far the best dynasty IMO). You get a free reroll to wound per unit. They wanna blow 2 CP to save a single inceptor be my guest.

I also use LHD. Typically 2 in my list for holding back field. Unlikely ill have vision on the gravis turn 1 though. Doom Scythes are great because they can get to the inceptors turn 1.

You are literally talking about units that wound gravis on 2's - automatically kill them with no save after that - and complaining about the gravis. LOL. The issue would be transhuman. Try to bait it on another unit.

 Xenomancers wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Doom Scythes dude. They solve all problems.

Doom Scythes are really bad against Inceptors if they use transhuman.

It is time you people catch on to the good ole Szarekhan (which is by far the best dynasty IMO). You get a free reroll to wound per unit. They wanna blow 2 CP to save a single inceptor be my guest.

I also use LHD. Typically 2 in my list for holding back field. Unlikely ill have vision on the gravis turn 1 though. Doom Scythes are great because they can get to the inceptors turn 1.

You are literally talking about units that wound gravis on 2's - automatically kill them with no save after that - and complaining about the gravis. LOL. The issue would be transhuman. Try to bait it on another unit.

What else are you running as Szarekhan? LHDs get a lot of utility out of the dynasty for sure and I really wouldn't be surprised to see people running more stuff like this if they drop points in chapter approved, but (and I dont mean to be rude or anything) 2 of them alone doesnt seem enough to justify the dynasty pick?

TheNEWnew wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Doom Scythes dude. They solve all problems.

Doom Scythes are really bad against Inceptors if they use transhuman.

It is time you people catch on to the good ole Szarekhan (which is by far the best dynasty IMO). You get a free reroll to wound per unit. They wanna blow 2 CP to save a single inceptor be my guest.

I also use LHD. Typically 2 in my list for holding back field. Unlikely ill have vision on the gravis turn 1 though. Doom Scythes are great because they can get to the inceptors turn 1.

You are literally talking about units that wound gravis on 2's - automatically kill them with no save after that - and complaining about the gravis. LOL. The issue would be transhuman. Try to bait it on another unit.

What else are you running as Szarekhan? LHDs get a lot of utility out of the dynasty for sure and I really wouldn't be surprised to see people running more stuff like this if they drop points in chapter approved, but (and I dont mean to be rude or anything) 2 of them alone doesnt seem enough to justify the dynasty pick?

Presumably you would run this in a multi-dynasty list. 3 LHD, a doom scythe, and a Plasmancer in a spearhead, perhaps. That's 480 solid points of heavy cracking.

How are people liking Flayed ones?

I love the new models and want to use them, but I'm not sure how's best to.

Any good combos or strategies people have come up with?

I love them and think they are one of the sleeper hits in the codex because of their two strategems. The two ways I've used them is deep striking a unit of 5 near a juicy target but out of LOS (which isn't always possible) or running a squad of 15-20 up the board with a Chronomancer to contest the midfield. It does kinda feel annoying paying for DS when you don't use it though andI wish they could infiltrate like in previous editions.

The traits I take are 6" pre game move and rad-wreathed. Wounding Guardsmen and other T3 targets on 2's is brutal and wounding Custodes and Gravis marines etc on 4's is also very nice when used with the fight twice strat. I think they are just a really good all pupose infantry killer and 9th is all about infantry fighting in the mid field. Possibly one of our best answers to Death Guard too, although I haven't played them to find out.

Also the fear is mechanic is actually quite good against things that don't just ignore morale

Cynista wrote:
I love them and think they are one of the sleeper hits in the codex because of their two strategems. The two ways I've used them is deep striking a unit of 5 near a juicy target but out of LOS (which isn't always possible) or running a squad of 15-20 up the board with a Chronomancer to contest the midfield. It does kinda feel annoying paying for DS when you don't use it though andI wish they could infiltrate like in previous editions

5 man units run as novokh are really good out if DS too. I dont normally like the psychomancer but he makes a good partner for them if you put the dimensional sanctum arcana on him as well as thrall of the silent king to push his nightmare shroud aura to 9". His abilities naturally synergies with the flayed ones. Being able to turn off your opponents obsec is much stronger on the smaller units after all.

As novokh you've got the ability to get 40 attacks out of a 5 man unit if you do feel like spending 3 CP, which is very efficient for a 65pt unit. Between a 8" charge out of DS and AP-2 theres not a lot of stuff that you want to put them into that isn't crippled at that point.

If you do go for 5 man units, then the obsec dynasty is also a strong choice. Again, pair them with a psychomancer and you've got a very cheap and very threatening objective based reserve force

I haven't tried big bricks of them so I cant talk on it, but rad wreathed does seem like a good choice for them there.

Yeah at first I was using them in tandem with a Psychomancer and it's trolltastic against Imperial Guard. Since then though I decided to use those points on a LHD instead

I really like the Psychomancer + Dimensional Simulacrum to drop in alongside virtually anything else.

Issue I have with it is that I detest the model.... Not that this is a modelling thread, but general concensus on using Old Szeras instead of the new thing?

Tbh I think we can be pretty liberal with Cryptek's. My Chronomancer is a kitbash I made a couple years ago. Wraith tail, Praetorian torso and Deathmark head. My Plasmancer is an AOS Cairn Wraith with various Necron bits stuck on

Who really gets to say what any particular Cryptek should look like.
I get the impression from the fluff that no two are ever really the same.
As they are mostly egomaniacs who are constantly altering their bodies and tech.

 dan2026 wrote:
How are people liking Flayed ones?

I love the new models and want to use them, but I'm not sure how's best to.

Any good combos or strategies people have come up with?

Frankly, I'd like to field them but I don't have the models.
Too expensive money-wise and no plastic models.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
How are people liking Flayed ones?

I love the new models and want to use them, but I'm not sure how's best to.

Any good combos or strategies people have come up with?

Frankly, I'd like to field them but I don't have the models.
Too expensive money-wise and no plastic models.

Well it won't be too long before the new plastic models are released separately from the box.
But yeah, I don't doubt they will be GWspensive.

New Flayed Ones are going to be an the Hachette Imperium magazine series. If you get get issues when they come.out that's £9 for 5, IIRC.

LiMunPai wrote:
How are you guys handling squads of 6 Inceptors with Apo, reroll support, and deep strike screening?

Well, Lychguard with shields can at least not die in one go to five of them.

That's something I guess.

Really the issue is that Plasceptors are just an oppressive unit in general and I don't think there are many answers to them. The points increase didn't go far enough and while the above suggestions are really good, I think most armies are just in a situation where we're all kind of waiting for another points increase to hit them.

I didn’t realize Plasma Inceptors were considered that good. Haven’t really seen Marines singing their praises, just this threat lamenting them.

 AduroT wrote:
I didn’t realize Plasma Inceptors were considered that good. Haven’t really seen Marines singing their praises, just this threat lamenting them.

They are brutal.

They are also really obnoxious rules wise - lots of rollings, usually done one model at a time (due to overcharge) and therefore people tend to remember them.

 AduroT wrote:
I didn’t realize Plasma Inceptors were considered that good. Haven’t really seen Marines singing their praises, just this threat lamenting them.

With the option for full re-rolls to hit, wounding on 2s if they overcharge with re-roll 1s from a lieutenant, base 10" move assault weapons and blast, they're very tricky for reaper warriors to deal with. A lot of our builds include at least 1 brick of 20 warriors which the plasma inceptors eat up for breakfast, lunch, dinner and whatever other time they're feeling hungry lol

Other codexs complain about eradicators (and often attack bikes) but we really dont have the same issues thanks to quantum shielding and 5++ on a lot of our vehicles, so its swings and roundabouts I guess

 AduroT wrote:
I didn’t realize Plasma Inceptors were considered that good. Haven’t really seen Marines singing their praises, just this threat lamenting them.

They're really good, probably the most improved unit in the 9th edition Codex. They have two Blast D3 shot guns, which means it's really easy to get 6 shots per model and re-rolls are easy to come by in a SM list. That number of S8, D2 shots is very efficient at killing pretty much anything from light infantry all the way up to tanks. They can also natively Deep Strike and have a good enough defensive profile to need a fairly specific answer.

pretty much every marine player ive seen that doesnt abuse plasma inceptors hinges on the "if i overcharge they just die" bit.
Yeah with that many shots even with rerolls youre extremely likely to explode....uh..dont overcharge? The fact they have blast makes them ridiculous on its own.

Its the same reason as admech i flipped out when i saw Destroyers' plasma had D6 shots with blast....im like "thats a plasma i'd gladly fire at hordes..." - except the marine inceptors are even worse since theyre 2 D3 guns, so they get full shots on 6+ models (which is really dumb)

I've never seen them not suicide because EVERY time they deepstrike down behind me and overcharge against a vehicle/monster, killing 1-2 of themselves on average. And every time i facepalm lol
(Marine players in my area are not that bright, im getting tired of facing them because they keep doing dumb gak like this expecting to win because marines)

Oh, I missed or forgot they got blast now.

A very important thing to remember, as a Necron player, is that the marines are in the same 'all marine' meta as you are.

So you are good at playing vs Marines, because it is all you do. But Marines are also good...at playing vs Marines, because it is all they do. We may have the 'only one codex' penalty vs marines and chaos, but we have the weirdo edge on our side.