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 Crafter91 wrote:
I'm only new to Necrons and admittedly haven't played a single game yet, but the one thing i'm noticing a serious lack of in comparison to other 9th ed armies is invun saves.

There are a lot of units that can be taken out without anything stopping it by a single lascannon shot. Prime example, heavy lokhust destroyers.

Any tips on keeping things such as this alive? As an Eldar player first and foremost I would rely on things like Fire and Fade for this but I'm struggling with Crons.

the 6++ dynasty, which is too weak.

For heavy Lokhust you might be better in a mixed squad with normals ones(unit size 6) and have Technomancers or Chronomancers.

 p5freak wrote:

 Crafter91 wrote:
I'm only new to Necrons and admittedly haven't played a single game yet, but the one thing i'm noticing a serious lack of in comparison to other 9th ed armies is invun saves.

There are a lot of units that can be taken out without anything stopping it by a single lascannon shot. Prime example, heavy lokhust destroyers.

Any tips on keeping things such as this alive? As an Eldar player first and foremost I would rely on things like Fire and Fade for this but I'm struggling with Crons.

Add a chronomancer, he is only 80 points. Isnt that great ? 80 points to give one unit a 5++ ? GW thinks we dont need inv, we have reanimation.

Reanimation works only for 1W models such as Necron Warriors and Immortals.
For models with 2W or 3W it is rather disappointing.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Reanimation works only for 1W models such as Necron Warriors and Immortals.
For models with 2W or 3W it is rather disappointing.

No, no, you are doing it wrong. You need three reanimators, they will give you +1 to reanimation rolls. Three if one, or two are killed. And the orb of eternity, which will also give you +1 to reanimation rolls. But you cant combine them, that would be OP.

 p5freak wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Reanimation works only for 1W models such as Necron Warriors and Immortals.
For models with 2W or 3W it is rather disappointing.

No, no, you are doing it wrong. You need three reanimators, they will give you +1 to reanimation rolls. Three if one, or two are killed. And the orb of eternity, which will also give you +1 to reanimation rolls. But you cant combine them, that would be OP.

Forgot the Orb of Eternity :(

I was kidding. Forget the reanimator, its a piece of trash. Get more units which can actually do something.

 p5freak wrote:
I was kidding. Forget the reanimator, its a piece of trash. Get more units which can actually do something.

you don't like my 500 point battleforged list?

 p5freak wrote:
I was kidding. Forget the reanimator, its a piece of trash. Get more units which can actually do something.

Hey pfreak, I usually take your words for granted.
But yeah, 60 Warriors are had to shift.

I mean, we have at least some units with an invuln. Wraiths, Board Lychguard, Tesseract Vault, Canoptek Stalkers. But yeah, out meele destroyers lack them althrough they would need them the most. Not beeing able to use REAP on 2+ wound models effectively would be fine if Rite of Reanimation wouldn’t be capped at 1 model per unit. At this point I wish they made REAP just a FNP roll instead of the current complex mess which is striktly worse. Or just enable REAP to heal models and bring models with not full health back.

Reanimators are excellent in Warrior heavy builds, to the point where I wouldn't leave home without one if taking 40+ warriors.

If you're not doing that sort of build then they absolutely stay at home.

I would choose 2x13 warriors over 20 warriors+Reanimator. (similar costs I think)

Reanimation Protocols is not strictly worse than FNP since you get free movement, FNP was super boring when we had it.

 Bosskelot wrote:
Reanimators are excellent in Warrior heavy builds, to the point where I wouldn't leave home without one if taking 40+ warriors.

If you're not doing that sort of build then they absolutely stay at home.

Nah, still terrible. You would be better off including 6 more Warriors. A Reanimator dies to a well-placed melta shot, it's too expensive for how easily it dies and the fact that it provides next to nothing other than support. You need 36 Reanimation rolls on units that have been buffed by the Reanimator, while Warriors get to re-roll 1s that's still 31 rolls. It's not impossible for a Reanimator to earn its keep, I have used them and saw how against certain lists a Reanimator buffed block of Warriors becomes impossible to shift, there are just too many drawbacks at its current cost. It is 15-25 pts overcosted, that makes it hard to notice in a 2k list, but if you tried using 3 you would see how little they help and if you contrasted with a list with 0 there is no need to take Reanimators and 15-25 pts is a relatively large chunk of 80.

Reanimator is just defensive Support, if the unit is not attacked, the Reanimator just shoots its gun.

 Manchild 1984 wrote:
Reanimator is just defensive Support, if the unit is not attacked, the Reanimator just shoots its gun.

If the Reanimator has range and LOS to anything then it gets destroyed next turn. Every other unit in the codex has character protection or deals more damage per point invested than a Reanimator does with its wimpy guns.

 vict0988 wrote:

 Manchild 1984 wrote:
Reanimator is just defensive Support, if the unit is not attacked, the Reanimator just shoots its gun.

If the Reanimator has range and LOS to anything then it gets destroyed next turn. Every other unit in the codex has character protection or deals more damage per point invested than a Reanimator does with its wimpy guns.

I mostly care about Aura based buffs, SK, Anrakyr, Destroyer Lords. These can also fight a bit. I dont respect the Crypteks that much.

 vict0988 wrote:
Reanimation Protocols is not strictly worse than FNP since you get free movement, FNP was super boring when we had it.

 Bosskelot wrote:
Reanimators are excellent in Warrior heavy builds, to the point where I wouldn't leave home without one if taking 40+ warriors.

If you're not doing that sort of build then they absolutely stay at home.

Nah, still terrible. You would be better off including 6 more Warriors. A Reanimator dies to a well-placed melta shot, it's too expensive for how easily it dies and the fact that it provides next to nothing other than support. You need 36 Reanimation rolls on units that have been buffed by the Reanimator, while Warriors get to re-roll 1s that's still 31 rolls. It's not impossible for a Reanimator to earn its keep, I have used them and saw how against certain lists a Reanimator buffed block of Warriors becomes impossible to shift, there are just too many drawbacks at its current cost. It is 15-25 pts overcosted, that makes it hard to notice in a 2k list, but if you tried using 3 you would see how little they help and if you contrasted with a list with 0 there is no need to take Reanimators and 15-25 pts is a relatively large chunk of 80.

I've been using Reanimators pretty solidly for the past few months and they've been excellent. It's actually not that difficult to hide them from enemy fire while still retaining LOS to the Warrior unit they're buffing. Yeah it means you might be stringing Warriors out and so losing shots, but realistically Warriors aren't killing much anyway. All you need them to be is a tarpit objective holder and a Reanimator facilitates that excellently. It doesn't even need to statistically bring back its amount of Warriors back, it just needs to make that one specific unit of Warriors that much more difficult to shift, forcing more and more firepower to be poured into it and subsequently being able to increase the effectiveness of a rez orb.

If you're playing in a meta with heavy out of LOS shooting or you're playing on planet bowling ball they really do fall off, but in all other circumstances they're really quite decent to the point where I've stopped taking them in casual games because they + Warriors can honestly feel oppressive.*

*Which is itself an issue with how the Codex in general is designed.

You should definitely not feel bad about including Reanimators in casual games, they are bad and they have not had any Grand Tournament top 4 placements and they are not common in tournament lists. Not to mention that Necrons are a bottom tier faction at the moment and that a lot of our company at the bottom are about to be updated and probably buffed.

A screen of 5 Scarabs in front of your Warriors will do far more. Blocking tonnes of Smites and making DS charges into the Warriors impossible and maybe even preventing units from going into melee with the Warriors depending on how much shooting your opponent has and how much room the Scarabs have to position themselves in front of the Warriors.

 vict0988 wrote:
You should definitely not feel bad about including Reanimators in casual games, they are bad and they have not had any Grand Tournament top 4 placements and they are not common in tournament lists. Not to mention that Necrons are a bottom tier faction at the moment and that a lot of our company at the bottom are about to be updated and probably buffed.

A screen of 5 Scarabs in front of your Warriors will do far more. Blocking tonnes of Smites and making DS charges into the Warriors impossible and maybe even preventing units from going into melee with the Warriors depending on how much shooting your opponent has and how much room the Scarabs have to position themselves in front of the Warriors.

Such a Scarab unit should protect the Warriors for one round as the Scarab screen needs to be shot down or taken down in melee before the Warriors could be taken on.

 Bosskelot wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:
Reanimation Protocols is not strictly worse than FNP since you get free movement, FNP was super boring when we had it.

 Bosskelot wrote:
Reanimators are excellent in Warrior heavy builds, to the point where I wouldn't leave home without one if taking 40+ warriors.

If you're not doing that sort of build then they absolutely stay at home.

Nah, still terrible. You would be better off including 6 more Warriors.

It doesn't even need to statistically bring back its amount of Warriors back, it just needs to make that one specific unit of Warriors that much more difficult to shift, forcing more and more firepower to be poured into it and subsequently being able to increase the effectiveness of a rez orb.

FYI, the metric of ‘making its points back’ in this context is relevant. The reason a ‘reanimator has to bring back its amount of warriors’ is because if it didn’t, using your standard of being ‘harder to shift’, that many points in more warriors would have been harder to shift than the reanimator-backed list.

I love the model and the concept of the reanimator.

But I don't really see the point in them since the only value they bring is their mediocre buff. Which is single target so your opponent can avoid targetting the unit.

Maybe on units that charge/get charged perhaps ?

on a different note... Silent King is about to get worse. (blue faces)

 Manchild 1984 wrote:
on a different note... Silent King is about to get worse. (blue faces)

Only if the meta skews Tau, favoring Hammerheads.

I like how they made the railgun really good, I wonder if we can get some love with our Doomsday weapons? Necrons you guys get more units with core, Tau you get an str 14 ap 6 d d3+6 3 mortal wounds ignore invulnerable save weapon, ok that's fair.

 CKO wrote:
I like how they made the railgun really good, I wonder if we can get some love with our Doomsday weapons? Necrons you guys get more units get core, Tau you get an str 14 ap 6 d d3+6 3 mortal wounds ignore invulnerable save weapon, ok that's fair.

Off topic, whine thread is on 40k General Discussion.

 vict0988 wrote:

 CKO wrote:
I like how they made the railgun really good, I wonder if we can get some love with our Doomsday weapons? Necrons you guys get more units get core, Tau you get an str 14 ap 6 d d3+6 3 mortal wounds ignore invulnerable save weapon, ok that's fair.

Off topic, whine thread is on 40k General Discussion.

It was more of a joke, I can see how it can come off as whining. I actually like the railgun becoming a potent weapon like it is in the fluff, our doomsday weapons in the fluff is equally as deadly but in the game, it doesn't meet the description. A simple change to the damage of the gun to d3+3 will make the doomsday weapons comparable to recent weapon profiles, d6 damage is an early 9th edition profile.

 CKO wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

 CKO wrote:
I like how they made the railgun really good, I wonder if we can get some love with our Doomsday weapons? Necrons you guys get more units get core, Tau you get an str 14 ap 6 d d3+6 3 mortal wounds ignore invulnerable save weapon, ok that's fair.

Off topic, whine thread is on 40k General Discussion.

It was more of a joke, I can see how it can come off as whining. I actually like the railgun becoming a potent weapon like it is in the fluff, our doomsday weapons in the fluff is equally as deadly but in the game, it doesn't meet the description. A simple change to the damage of the gun to d3+3 will make the doomsday weapons comparable to recent weapon profiles, d6 damage is an early 9th edition profile.

Wish-listing, joking out of context of a current discussion without bringing anything to discuss tactics-wise, game design discussion and fluff discussion is all off-topic. I was not trying to snipe at you for whining, I don't hate you for being for off-topic, it's fine, it's just that if nobody brings things back on topic then the thread will be derailed for 2 pages. It's even too early to discuss how to counter Tau, because we don't know whether marker lights will allow Hammerheads to shoot without line of sight or something crazy like that, there is just no reason to theorize in this particular thread at this particular point in time IMHO.

I see your point vict I just went to that thread and I see why you don't want to bring it up and create a whine feast. The way I open the subject came off wrong but there is nothing wrong with discussing the most popular rumor in 40k. I believe that we are not fearful of railguns because of our quantum shields. They are paying a premium for a shot that has a 50% chance of doing nothing to our vehicles. The Silent King has his Menhirs to soak up at least 2 shots. Our C'tan will only take 3 wounds regardless. The railgun is not as deadly to us as it might be to other factions.

How good are the Wraiths with Whip Coils against armies with -1 damage?
We would probably need some Novokh strats to boost strength.
Could be good against Thoughness 7 dreadnoughts maybe.

 CKO wrote:
I see your point vict I just went to that thread and I see why you don't want to bring it up and create a whine feast. The way I open the subject came off wrong but there is nothing wrong with discussing the most popular rumor in 40k. I believe that we are not fearful of railguns because of our quantum shields. They are paying a premium for a shot that has a 50% chance of doing nothing to our vehicles. The Silent King has his Menhirs to soak up at least 2 shots. Our C'tan will only take 3 wounds regardless. The railgun is not as deadly to us as it might be to other factions.

I believe tau will get an auto wound stratagem, like we have. Or at least something that lets them reroll failed wound rolls.

 Manchild 1984 wrote:
How good are the Wraiths with Whip Coils against armies with -1 damage?
We would probably need some Novokh strats to boost strength.
Could be good against Thoughness 7 dreadnoughts maybe.

No. There is no way to boost strength by +3 to 7.

8 hits wounding on 5+ not good enough?
seems better then 4 hits wounding on 4+

 Manchild 1984 wrote:
8 hits wounding on 5+ not good enough?
seems better then 4 hits wounding on 4+

You have *2 attacks *2/3 wounding *2/3 armour penetration (8/9 or 89% of your regular damage when you downgrade to whips), so you always do less damage and with +1 Strength Stratagem the non-whip can do a bit more damage. Either way, Dreadnoughts do not die to Wraiths. You want Heavy Destroyers, Warriors or Doomsday Arks.