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 lord_blackfang wrote:
Even more incentive for garage companies and consumers to switch to purely digital, 3d printable product.

Until someone/something 'powerful' notices and we end up with the 3D printing equivalent of DVD Region Codes...

I'm about to make a 3k euros order from FW to pretty much buy everything I want, so I don't have to pay customs/handling and maybe also deal with potential price increase :/

Better hurry up. Fw has been slower than usual lately. When customs kick in? Based on day of purchase? Or when it arrives? Year end is pretty close so arrival could go to next year

Brexit: Hornby stops non-UK orders due to price confusion - BBC

Interesting article, in answer to tneva82's question..

tneva82 wrote:
Better hurry up. Fw has been slower than usual lately. When customs kick in? Based on day of purchase? Or when it arrives? Year end is pretty close so arrival could go to next year

Not even the boss of Hornby knows

Hornby boss Lyndon Davies said: "Within Europe people are already asking us: 'If I buy something, are those tariffs already included in your pricing?' Because we don't know what's going to happen, it's just a very difficult position."

 Sim-Life wrote:
Being in Ireland I'm curious. I don't buy anything from GW anymore really but most Irish people buy stuff from UK sites to the point where there are very, very few dedicated Irish TTG site that aren't just an after thought of a physical shop and often, buying from the UK is still cheaper even after shipping is added.

The Ferry from Liverpool to Dublin will be loaded down with people's personal cargo containers to avoid import taxes.

I'm really interested in how this is going to play out. There are very few economists willing to go on record saying anything positive about a no-deal situation. But Europe has more of a need to normalize relations with the UK, they can't have them being Australia for long.

 techsoldaten wrote:
But Europe has more of a need to normalize relations with the UK, they can't have them being Australia for long.

It appears to be rather the other way round, without the EU GB will be back to what it was in the 70s, the sick man of Europe.

Cronch wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
But Europe has more of a need to normalize relations with the UK, they can't have them being Australia for long.

It appears to be rather the other way round, without the EU GB will be back to what it was in the 70s, the sick man of Europe.

Let's hope not.

I'm sure the EU wants to make an example of England to keep other EU states inline. But I can think of a few (hi Poland and Hungary) who might be wondering why this customs union has so much power to make laws for them.

It would be easier to see the UK doing well financially were the US not going through a transition. But I have a feeling something will get done to put them back on the good foot.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
But Europe has more of a need to normalize relations with the UK, they can't have them being Australia for long.

It appears to be rather the other way round, without the EU GB will be back to what it was in the 70s, the sick man of Europe.

Let's hope not.

I'm sure the EU wants to make an example of England to keep other EU states inline. But I can think of a few (hi Poland and Hungary) who might be wondering why this customs union has so much power to make laws for them.

It would be easier to see the UK doing well financially were the US not going through a transition. But I have a feeling something will get done to put them back on the good foot.

As a polish person, my thoughts on the current kleptocrats in power don't bear reapeating (and they'd literally hang if they tried to force a polexit), but I doubt EU is "making an example", they're just offering the similar deal to what Norway and other countries get where UK government wants to have all the privileges and none of the responsibilities involved. EU's stance has not been made harder for the UK than it is for other non-eu affiliates, it was always delusional to think UK would somehow be exempt from the usual limitations by virtue of...idk, being british? Of course, were one uncharitable, they could say it's all been lies from the start. Remember Dyson? The dude that was pro-brexit and then moved his factories to Asia? Or Farage, one of the architects of Brexit, which promptly went and fled to the US?

That being said, what it means for me is I've placed one last order with TTC for ogre heroes, and will probably buy nothing else directly from the UK gamestores as the extra waiting time and potential tariffs will make it not worth my time.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
But Europe has more of a need to normalize relations with the UK, they can't have them being Australia for long.

It appears to be rather the other way round, without the EU GB will be back to what it was in the 70s, the sick man of Europe.

Let's hope not.

I'm sure the EU wants to make an example of England to keep other EU states inline. But I can think of a few (hi Poland and Hungary) who might be wondering why this customs union has so much power to make laws for them.

It would be easier to see the UK doing well financially were the US not going through a transition. But I have a feeling something will get done to put them back on the good foot.

Simple. If uk can trade freely without following same　rules as everybody whole single market dies. So uk would trade freely to 27 eu countries but suddenly inside eu no free trade.

Whole point of single market is that since all follow same rules there's no need for tarifs and checks.

Either all follow or there's no single market. Hungary and poland benefits too much to give up and have non-free trade with 26 other eu countries. Market the 26 countries　have　is "bit" bigger than uk.

Eu can't allow uk to set race to bottom on food standards(rat poop included in food? Ty no thanks), minimum wages etc so if uk wants freedom to lower those they can't expect to get full unhindered access. The more you follow rules, the more access you get. It's　not on/off btw.uk could accept following some rules for some access. Swizzerland for example follows most but not all(custom union out for example) getting them nearly frictionless trade(not　completely free like brexiteers　claim as example of non-eu having access. Well no full access and are following most rules) with only little checks(vat payments for example) in between.

Uk wants to follow zero rules and get complete access. Thats not possible.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
But Europe has more of a need to normalize relations with the UK, they can't have them being Australia for long.

It appears to be rather the other way round, without the EU GB will be back to what it was in the 70s, the sick man of Europe.

Let's hope not.

I'm sure the EU wants to make an example of England to keep other EU states inline. But I can think of a few (hi Poland and Hungary) who might be wondering why this customs union has so much power to make laws for them.

It would be easier to see the UK doing well financially were the US not going through a transition. But I have a feeling something will get done to put them back on the good foot.

If Poland and Hungary don't want to be part of a union that respects democratic norms (this is what the EU wants them to do, the point of contention) then they are free to invoke Article 50 any time they want and leave. Of course, if they do that, they will not be recieving any more money from the EU, something the idiots in charge of those countries like to keep quiet about while badmouthing the EU and shovelling EU money in the pockets of their cronies.

As to the UK, the UK will need to normalise relations with the EU, not the other way around. The fly doesn't negotiate with the windshield.

I dont think the price increase is going to hurt as mutch as the drasticly increased shipping times will.

Remember, a no deal means basicly a complete shipping stop between uk and basicly the rest of the world until some taxing systems are in place. I had to rush order some minis from uk early this month just to be shure it would not get stuck in shipping.

Heh. I ordered stuff from mantic months ago and still haven't gotten it. Pretty sore about that, I have to say.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
I dont think the price increase is going to hurt as mutch as the drasticly increased shipping times will.

Remember, a no deal means basicly a complete shipping stop between uk and basicly the rest of the world until some taxing systems are in place. I had to rush order some minis from uk early this month just to be shure it would not get stuck in shipping.

Speaking of, where does Forge World ship from?

 Mangod wrote:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
I dont think the price increase is going to hurt as mutch as the drasticly increased shipping times will.

Remember, a no deal means basicly a complete shipping stop between uk and basicly the rest of the world until some taxing systems are in place. I had to rush order some minis from uk early this month just to be shure it would not get stuck in shipping.

Speaking of, where does Forge World ship from?

England. Except US has it's own section I think but of course this doesn't affect US directly anyway.

In similar way web store items are going to get trickier(and pricier) to get due to this. Bad for those armies where significant units are such. 40k wise necrons have such units, AOS has entire armies with only couple kits non-web store items...

Hopefully my last order from wayland arrives by end of year. Shipped already so now it's on the mercy of post office.

Basically the whole thing is a dumpster fire for small sellers. Large companies have the resource to ensure they are aligned with new rules. Small self employed sellers are well and truly up the creek as the additional costs and paperwork required make selling to EU look increasingly unattractive.

Personally I sell a lot of products to Germany, France and Italy and may remove Europe as a shipping option, at least for the short term until there's some more clarity on what is needed.

Now that I'm getting back in to 40k a bit more I've been ordering a lot of stuff and its all uk sites, mostly Wayland and Element.
Highly disappointed at the idea that I might be priced out of using these vendors, never mind the idea their existence could be threatened.


I'd love to be spending my money here in Ireland, but the showing is very bad in comparison and I doubt we'll see any stores popping up that could provide the variety of stuff we're used to.

I think a thread on EU alternate companies might be due.

I have an order in with Zatu for a copy of Core Space, hoping they get it shipped out for me soon!

 Domican wrote:
Now that I'm getting back in to 40k a bit more I've been ordering a lot of stuff and its all uk sites, mostly Wayland and Element.
Highly disappointed at the idea that I might be priced out of using these vendors, never mind the idea their existence could be threatened.

Wayland etc should survive. After all they still have whole UK to market. Bigger issue of course is if UK removes EU law that forbid company from forbidding sales to EU. In that case GW would likely introduce same ban for UK stores selling their stuff they have for outside EU(wayland etc cannot sell outside EU atm as GW flat out forbid to ensure no taking advantage of exchange ratios vs GW's own's). So at that point even if cost would be cheaper you would need to use reshipping service which would add another layer of expenses.


GW itself can of course sell to you and your local FLGS should be able to continue but prices will likely go up(unlikely GW will reduce their own profit margin...) and especially at the start there's likely going to be some delays for stores to get stuff from UK.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Wayland and others. I know the original RoW GW ban must have hurt them (I used to order from them when I was living in a country that had no gaming stores, they were my lifeline that got cut off).

Speaking anecdotally as a small-time seller (literally just clearing out piles of shame) I would say probably 50% of my sales go to EU, which you have to think is because of the weak GBP vs. Euro makes my prices quite low (even though, for me, they are a reasonable price and I'm not trying to undercut anyone).

I do the same with retro games and again probably around 50% if not more go to the EU, have already cleared out everything I was trying to sell as all of that is going to stop come 1st Jan.

 CragHack wrote:
I'm about to make a 3k euros order from FW to pretty much buy everything I want, so I don't have to pay customs/handling and maybe also deal with potential price increase :/

I wish I could do the same. I'm getting into an army which will have a lot of FW stuff in it. Unfortunately Xmas times and Black Friday have already wrecked my wallet, so can only afford to buy a small amount of FW during late december.

Brexit is going to make being into GW games an even crazier proposition..

What also sucks bad is that many bitz resellers seem to reside in the UK. That's the one that annoys me the most personally.

Well, you've nothing to lose. You can always send it back
I've found out that if I was to make a 2k euros worth of order after 12.31 (or whether it would arrive after), I would have to pay around 500 euros worth of taxes.
Seems like it will be cheaper just to fly over to UK and buy things there.

 CragHack wrote:
Well, you've nothing to lose. You can always send it back
I've found out that if I was to make a 2k euros worth of order after 12.31 (or whether it would arrive after), I would have to pay around 500 euros worth of taxes.
Seems like it will be cheaper just to fly over to UK and buy things there.

For thouse values, yes.

I wonder if uk-eu will develop as negativly as scandenavia-u.s is. Buy an item on ebay from u.s for 5$, pay 15$ for shipping and VAT.........

Really glad I was able to emigration from the UK, as much as I miss my native Yorkshire, I don't miss the hell hole that the UK is turning into.

I've spent most of this year buying all the stuff I need from Mantic, Ebay, and Northstar Miniatures. I now have 6 large armies for Kings of War, Warhammer Fantasy Battles, and Age of Fantasy: Regiments.

Should keep me busy for the next couple of years.

If anyone in Ireland is looking for miniatures check out https://neverboard.ie/

4 years we've been sailing merrily towards this river of sewerage and we still have absolutely no idea about basic stuff that's going to happen because we've got a party that Victorian mill owners might go so far as to decry as "a bit much" in charge.

I think as others have said GW will weather the storm of cack but smaller companies will drown in it.

But then again the whole thing might not matter anyway when we're all standing in lines for our weekly rations of bread and potatoes because you've spent all your money buying tomatoes and citrus fruits.

 CragHack wrote:
Well, you've nothing to lose. You can always send it back
I've found out that if I was to make a 2k euros worth of order after 12.31 (or whether it would arrive after), I would have to pay around 500 euros worth of taxes.
Seems like it will be cheaper just to fly over to UK and buy things there.

Whether you can send it back for free after 1.1 is another thing...amazon won't have free returns if it's not defective/damaged/missing parts items.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
Well, you've nothing to lose. You can always send it back
I've found out that if I was to make a 2k euros worth of order after 12.31 (or whether it would arrive after), I would have to pay around 500 euros worth of taxes.
Seems like it will be cheaper just to fly over to UK and buy things there.

For thouse values, yes.

I wonder if uk-eu will develop as negativly as scandenavia-u.s is. Buy an item on ebay from u.s for 5$, pay 15$ for shipping and VAT.........

One person was looking at bed. Shop had factored in import fees already and put them to shipping. 20 went to 80 pounds.

Over the past few years I've spent pretty much the same sum at UK vendors (Wayland, Element & co) and local ones (my FLGS and Ars Manufactorea in Italy).
I'm pretty confident that deal or no deal, GW will be able to forbid UK retailers to sell GW products to EU customers, just like they are now forbidden to sell them outside the EU.
This means that, deal or no deal, I'll be forced to look elsewhere to buy GW minis, in order to find the best EU prices. Ars Manufactorea currently offers 25% off the EU RRP price and tracked shipping, it's not as good as the 20% off the UK RRP that Wayland offers but it's still better than buying at RRP.

As for independent stores re: non-GW products, not much will change for me I guess.
If I'm interested in something from the UK, I'll have to spend a little bit more and wait a little bit longer for it to arrive. Maybe I'll buy less stuff, who knows?

 tauist wrote:
What also sucks bad is that many bitz resellers seem to reside in the UK. That's the one that annoys me the most personally.

You know the answer to that. Become a bitz seller. Buy the boxes with bits you want, and sell on the rest.
Do you know anyone who you trust to do that. Make yourself a personalised bitz seller, if you just want the bitz. Let them handle the reselling part, and get the bitz for you.

As someone above said, Wayland and Element going behind the UK-EU Brexit wall means smaller resellers get the chance to fill in for their own markets. Waylands loss can be some other caompany's gain.

 Skinnereal wrote:

 tauist wrote:
What also sucks bad is that many bitz resellers seem to reside in the UK. That's the one that annoys me the most personally.

You know the answer to that. Become a bitz seller. Buy the boxes with bits you want, and sell on the rest.
Do you know anyone who you trust to do that. Make yourself a personalised bitz seller, if you just want the bitz. Let them handle the reselling part, and get the bitz for you.

I'm not sure that's going to be an option for that many people TBH.. I want bits, but could I be bothered to start my own business doing it? Absolutely not.

I agree that there will be an element of 'the market will adapt', as it always does. But, all of this extra nonsense and the building of barriers will lead to prices going up (even if it's just for companies to cover their own extra expenditure, and still make a profit) and what was a no-brainer purchase decision in the past (where you didn't really even have to notice where the product is coming from) is now going to become a massive PITA. And I think a lot of people (both sellers and purchasers) are probably just not going to bother..

Another point to consider is should a no deal happend, it might kick 3d printing into a new gear.

Shure, GW will adapt as everyone says, but many other smaller and way more intresting or better games wont, and GW is what, less then 5% of the total miniature gaming world????, we would be looking at what would become games isolated to their own regions due to very high shipping and taxes overseas on their products.

For thouse companys to start selling 3D files of their minis, might be a solution.

Anybody who's read anything on EU decision making knows things pretty much always go one second to midnight before signing on the dotted line. I'd be very surprised if it becomes a No Deal situation, as neither side wants that - even if it's the EU who has to budge a little, although I fully expect the UK government to silently capitulate on a lot of 'quieter' (see: not fishing) stuff as well.