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 Super Ready wrote:

Voss wrote:
I'm trying to picture Custodes writing cheesy and vulgar little snippets about getting into a woman's underthings.
Its amusing, but difficult.

Why would Custodes contemplate a concept hypothetical?
T'would be the very model of a sonnet most heretical!

I think Flipsiders has hit the nail on the head here. They are different, sure, but you need to know sufficient lore in order to know that. The less of that lore you've been exposed to? The more they're going to just look like Super-de-Dooper-humans as opposed to just Superdooperhumans.

Modern Major General reference, I swooned. THEN A DBZA reference, and I slapped my keyboard so hard my cat fell off the desk.

You sir are the Custodian of all that is awesome tonight.

:Removes hat:

10 Internet points to you for recognising both! ...minus 1 for not mentioning Mordin Solus in Mass Effect 2.

Custodes aren't Marines. That's why they're not included. It's pretty cut and dry.

I mean, in the fluff the Custodes don't trust Marines. They exist separately from Marines, and they don't consider themselves part of that organisation at all. Neither does the Imperium at large.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
All thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs.

Except thumbs aren't fingers. Both are digits, but fingers and thumbs are classed separately from one another.

What you MEANT to say is "All fingers are digits, but not all digits are fingers".

You must be superfun at parties...

Translationsissues aside (in my language, the thumb is very much considered a finger), here's what I found when doing a quick search;

English dictionaries describe finger as meaning either one of the five digits including the thumb, or one of the four excluding the thumb

-Guardsman- wrote:

I'm still not convinced the Custodes are all that different.

You don't have to be convinced of it. You're simply wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:

The difference between a marine and a custode is more like the difference between an AK-47 and an M16. A space marine has a more rugged construction but more or less the end product is the same except the custode is a little more a precision instrument. Realistically there is no reason why a custode would be much better than the difference between an m16 and an ak-47 but in the 40k universe a custode is a lot better than a space marine.

What the feth are you even talking about, lol?

Sure, and sisters are now slaanesh because they are female.

That’s about as large as the list of similarities between marines and custodes.

2 copy and paste vehicles and the odd imperial weapon or 2 is the only common factor between them.
Everything else about them is entirely different.

I mean, this is kind of a consequence of gravis and elite marines eating the custodes’ niche on the tabletop. Used to be an army that was full of captains, but now it’s an army full of less flexible chonky marines. Full of captains is pretty unique. Full of chonky marines is not

For me the difference is in the "story plot". God Emperor tries to unite humanity, and fight the Techno Barbarians. Creates Super warriors, named Custodes, but too much is required, needs a slightly less good but mass-producible army. Creates Thunder warriors. They are slightly less powerful then custodes, and win him the galaxy, but they are also insane and incapable of long life. So he goes back and creates the Astartes/Primarchs, which are as near to perfect as he can manage for a mass produced army. They cannot beat thunder warriors, so the Custodes have to do it. The Custodes Slaughter the entire race of Thunder Warriors, in a relatively short period of time. So basically, in order of power:

Emperor>Custodes>Primarchs>Thunder Warriors>Astartes.

Astartes are the bottom tier of the Gene bred warriors of the Emperor. Custodes are just below the Emperor. That is the difference.

stratigo wrote:
I mean, this is kind of a consequence of gravis and elite marines eating the custodes’ niche on the tabletop. Used to be an army that was full of captains, but now it’s an army full of less flexible chonky marines. Full of captains is pretty unique. Full of chonky marines is not

Custodes niche is 'not on the tabletop'
'better terminators' was something terminators needed, not a new subfaction.

'Full of captains' is simply dreadful for game balance.

Voss wrote:

stratigo wrote:
I mean, this is kind of a consequence of gravis and elite marines eating the custodes’ niche on the tabletop. Used to be an army that was full of captains, but now it’s an army full of less flexible chonky marines. Full of captains is pretty unique. Full of chonky marines is not

Custodes niche is 'not on the tabletop'
'better terminators' was something terminators needed, not a new subfaction.

'Full of captains' is simply dreadful for game balance.

Yes because Custodes are super unbalanced LOL

Voss wrote:

Aelyn wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I personally equate Wulfen battle Sagas to Klingon Poetry. A lot more of the Slam and a lot less of the Poetry part. Anyone want to try and re-enact a Wulfen singing?

I'd compare the Space Wolf sagas to epics like Beowulf or the Iliad, where Custodes might do something more like Shakespeare's sonnets.

I'm trying to picture Custodes writing cheesy and vulgar little snippets about getting into a woman's underthings.
Its amusing, but difficult.

And from.a personal standpoint, well.worth the effort. Fnyarr, and indeed, fnyarr.

To the uninitiated they're both big dudes in chunky armour, not hard to see where confusion can arise.
Same with Sisters I'm guessing, a novice would be more likely to assume they're female marines than a female Imperial Guard regiment.
Power armour has a specific look, Marines greatest foe is Marines with spikes after all.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
For me the difference is in the "story plot". God Emperor tries to unite humanity, and fight the Techno Barbarians. Creates Super warriors, named Custodes, but too much is required, needs a slightly less good but mass-producible army. Creates Thunder warriors. They are slightly less powerful then custodes, and win him the galaxy, but they are also insane and incapable of long life. So he goes back and creates the Astartes/Primarchs, which are as near to perfect as he can manage for a mass produced army. They cannot beat thunder warriors, so the Custodes have to do it. The Custodes Slaughter the entire race of Thunder Warriors, in a relatively short period of time. So basically, in order of power:

Emperor>Custodes>Primarchs>Thunder Warriors>Astartes.

Astartes are the bottom tier of the Gene bred warriors of the Emperor. Custodes are just below the Emperor. That is the difference.

A Primarch can rip a Custodian limb from limb.

And has. Angron literally tore the Emperor's bodyguards to pieces with his bare hands when he was spirited away from Nuceria, until Malcador knocked him out.

Yeah only the best Custodes can goe toe to toe with a Primarch and at best don't die instantly. The High General of the Heresy was nearly capable of defeating some primarchs , I don't remember his name, but even then it was much more probably for him to lose.

Now, we all know Primarch power are highly inconsistent and in some novels you have 10 Space Wolves "scorting" a Primarch under Malcador orders so if they go roge basically kill him, like with Sanguinius.

Of course any Custode is much better than most primarchs at basically being emotionally and mentally stable.

 kingheff wrote:
To the uninitiated they're both big dudes in chunky armour, not hard to see where confusion can arise.

actuaslly it kiiiinda is





COMPLETELY differant aestetics. there's very little that would tie these guys in eneugh to think they're somehow the same type of thing beyond "guys in armor"

Picking the plainest Marine models you can find doesn't help when Space Marines like these exist...

 Ghaz wrote:
Picking the plainest Marine models you can find doesn't help when Space Marines like these exist...

Spoiler:

Or Sanguinary Guard...

the point still stands that there really aren't that many aestetics shared among them. notably the helmets are very very differant

The different aesthetics are largely just cosmetic, though. The chestplates and shoulder pads combine to make something that is very recognisably power armour, in the same curved-plate style as Marine armour. To the untrained eye, they're just Marines in pointy hats... which isn't enough to make them something distinctly different, given how many different styles of hats Marines have.

Aesthetically, let's face it, the Custodes are about as different from ordinary Marines as Grey Knights are. And while anyone versed in lore knows that Grey Knights are not exactly ordinary Space Marines... they are still Space Marines. So that's another point of reference that could easily confuse newcomers.

 Super Ready wrote:
Aesthetically, let's face it, the Custodes are about as different from ordinary Marines as Grey Knights are.

They're not. They're more-so.

BrianDavion wrote:
the point still stands that there really aren't that many aestetics shared among them. notably the helmets are very very differant

To you the difference is obvious but to the new player they don't have the point of reference to make that call. As has been stated, look at Sanguinary guard. They have a colour scheme that is very similar to Custodes, arguably make Custodes look restrained by comparison and different shaped helmets from normal marines, they share as many similarities/differences to an intercessor as a custodian guard but, fundamentally they all look like big guys in power armour. Power armour has a distinctive silhouette.

 kingheff wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the point still stands that there really aren't that many aestetics shared among them. notably the helmets are very very differant

To you the difference is obvious but to the new player they don't have the point of reference to make that call. As has been stated, look at Sanguinary guard. They have a colour scheme that is very similar to Custodes, arguably make Custodes look restrained by comparison and different shaped helmets from normal marines, they share as many similarities/differences to an intercessor as a custodian guard but, fundamentally they all look like big guys in power armour. Power armour has a distinctive silhouette.

except that it's no more similer then

it's segmented armor plates, a back pack. THEY'RE THE SAME THING!

BrianDavion I'm sorry. I was one of the first in this post to say that they are not the same specially rules wise but for a newy player buff dudes in power armor are totally nearly the same.

Honestly even long term fans are going to see space marines when they see custodes.

They have the same body proportions; the same armour general shape and construction; the same weapon types (bolter); the same overall unit divisions; the same transport vehicles.

Sure their "Dreadnought" looks very different, but they still have one. Sure their armour is more ornate (and gold); but they are still basically a space marine in shape and form.



Eldar guardians are very different; they've a more lithe build; their weapons are different; their overall structure and style is different. Their shoulderpads are not twice the size of their heads etc....


Plus Custodes are listed under the Imperium so you know they are Imperial, not Chaos nor Xenos. They are Imperial guys in big thick armour just like a space marine - they are a variation of a space marine to most. Sure lore wise they are different; but at a quick visual glance they are marines.

Angron ripping apart a Custodian has to be the dumbest thing ever. Angron was a walking talking lore break. Want proof? "IM SO ANGRY I CAN LIFE A TITAN" If Angron was maximally angry, what are three things he coulnd't do?

Yes.

Also, literally any main focus of a book is indistinguishable from a god in certain situations. A single Iron Snake moving faster than a pack of Dark Eldar can see? Angron Lifting a Titan? Ciaphas Cain defeating a Word Bearer Captain in a sword fight? Same guy defeating an Ork Warboss in a sword fight? Eisenhorn taking down a WARLORD TITAN with a Daemon? It's called Plot Armor. And the GK are the kings of it. Angron "ripping" apart a Custodian fits right in with that.

 Overread wrote:
Honestly even long term fans are going to see space marines when they see custodes.

They have the same body proportions; the same armour general shape and construction; the same weapon types (bolter); the same overall unit divisions; the same transport vehicles.

ok, shut up, and take a space marine mini and a custodes mini and go show it to your elderly mother, or your neighbor across the street. point at the boltgun and the guardian spear. ask them "is this the same weapon"? youonly know they're the same weapon since you play 40k and are told it's the same weapon.

that applies to well.. an aweful lot of things, you know these guys are supposed to be related so you look for the handful of similer things that yes is aligned. but I garentee you, your mother/neighbor or whatother person who doesn't know jack all about 40k you choose, won't know.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Emperor>Custodes>Primarchs>Thunder Warriors>Astartes.

Custodes above Primarchs.
Classic Fezzik LOL.
Reminds me of when you told everyone about how the Custodes were killing Sisters of Battle during the Reign of Blood. Still don't want to either give a source for that, or recognize you were wrong?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Angron ripping apart a Custodian has to be the dumbest thing ever. Angron was a walking talking lore break. Want proof? "IM SO ANGRY I CAN LIFE A TITAN" If Angron was maximally angry, what are three things he coulnd't do?

Yes.

Also, literally any main focus of a book is indistinguishable from a god in certain situations. A single Iron Snake moving faster than a pack of Dark Eldar can see? Angron Lifting a Titan? Ciaphas Cain defeating a Word Bearer Captain in a sword fight? Same guy defeating an Ork Warboss in a sword fight? Eisenhorn taking down a WARLORD TITAN with a Daemon? It's called Plot Armor. And the GK are the kings of it. Angron "ripping" apart a Custodian fits right in with that.

No, Custodians are weaker than Primarchs, period. The gap between a Space Marine and a Custodian is smaller than the gap between a Custodian and a Primarch. Even Alpharius, the smallest and physically weakest Primarch, is much more powerful than any Custodian.

Don't like Black Library? I'm pretty sure that on average Valdor loses to every Primarch in the entire game in a challenge, even Lorgar. Against Horus, Fulgrim, Angron, Leman Russ, or one of the better duelists on the tabletop? He's crushed pretty much effortlessly.

And that's literally the best Custodian in the Heresy era, maybe ever.

Why not go check out how well a Custodians' statline matches up to Guilliman's, lol?

Tbh, I legit thought custodes were just fancy marines at the start of 8th. ( I’d been out of the hobby since 4th) Kinda like grey knights in many ways actually. a grey knight termie is closer to a custode in looks than a tactical marine.