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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Well if they fry the occupants that quickly they really wouldn't be powerful war machines would they?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Galas wrote:
 Cruentus wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
FW Dreads having randomly BS/WS 2+ for no reason was part of the problem, just so buy-to-win-people get a buff out of paying premium for a Dread (assuming they actually bought the proper FW ones) was one of the biggest problems from the start. Glad they fixed it.

Ideally, they simply would've had only 30K rules, and in 40K it's a pretty alternative model you can use for a Redemptor Dread or so, but if that wasn't an option, bringing them (somewhat ... still shouldn't have an invul IMO) was a good start.


Quick, explain why an ancient war machine from the time of The Heresy, piloted by an equally ancient champion who has fought for hundreds to thousands of years of constant warfare across the galaxy and literal hell, should have inferior skills to the venerable dreadnought of some thin blooded loyalist chapter from founding #142536.

I expect this to be entertaining.


Besides the fact that fluff doesn't equal rules, and the GW design space is limited, how about this:

These ancient war machines from the crusades are slowly deteriorating over the ten thousand years since the Heresy. Worn out parts and servos have to be replaced with technology used in current dreadnoughts, where the match is not exact, targeting mechanisms degrade, and the ability to recalibrate them is being lost, the armor has been patched and repatched so many times, that while imposing, weak spots have developed. And finally, after 10,000 years locked inside, the mighty warriors of a bygone age are slowly dying, and while they are still mighty warriors in their own right, their reflexes, minds, and interfaces continue to degenerate.

There you go. A fluffy reason why an ancient piece of machinery would operate at the same level as a current dreadnought


Not only that but just like the Primaris Dreadnoughts, Leviathans killed their "occupants" or make them go mad so actually probably any venerable dreadnought has more centuries or milleniums of experience than any leviathan dreadnought.


Leviathans put more strain on their pilot which can cause psychosis, but they don’t boil them alive as a disposable component like the reactors in a Redemptor.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well if they fry the occupants that quickly they really wouldn't be powerful war machines would they?


Why not? Look at the primaris ones. A couple of extra centuries of service inside a giant Dreadnought++ is probably something any marine would accept.

Personally as I said , WS and BS of 3+ and invulnerable of 5++ would have been enough (And I also dont like imperial knights with 3++ and 4++ invuls, those invuls in models so big is stupid), maybe a slighly discount. And they would still have been better than normal dreadnoughts.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Galas wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well if they fry the occupants that quickly they really wouldn't be powerful war machines would they?


Why not? Look at the primaris ones. A couple of extra centuries of service inside a giant Dreadnought++ is probably something any marine would accept.

Personally as I said , WS and BS of 3+ and invulnerable of 5++ would have been enough (And I also dont like imperial knights with 3++ and 4++ invuls, those invuls in models so big is stupid), maybe a slighly discount. And they would still have been better than normal dreadnoughts.

Except those Vets will somehow have less experience than a VenDread which still exists as an entry. It's all garbage justification from people mad that FW made some Dreads worth running compared to the garbage Codex options.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Galas wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well if they fry the occupants that quickly they really wouldn't be powerful war machines would they?


Why not? Look at the primaris ones. A couple of extra centuries of service inside a giant Dreadnought++ is probably something any marine would accept.

Personally as I said , WS and BS of 3+ and invulnerable of 5++ would have been enough (And I also dont like imperial knights with 3++ and 4++ invuls, those invuls in models so big is stupid), maybe a slighly discount. And they would still have been better than normal dreadnoughts.


I mean yeah, as I said earlier I don’t mind the invulnerable drop. And the key to relic dreads getting better skills is the venerable dread, which, if it had a different way to represent the ancient pilot, wouldn’t be causing that issue. The biggest issue is the dropped toughness, which is definitely weird considering just how solidly built and armoured the thing is.

That said it’s ludicrous that Telemons keep all three of those things (2+ skill, 4++ save, S and T8) and get the new buffs (-1 damage, +1 attack per close combat weapon) and Only cost 260 points, with only the storm cannon as wargear that costs extra (+15 per)
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Galas wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well if they fry the occupants that quickly they really wouldn't be powerful war machines would they?


Why not? Look at the primaris ones. A couple of extra centuries of service inside a giant Dreadnought++ is probably something any marine would accept.

Personally as I said , WS and BS of 3+ and invulnerable of 5++ would have been enough (And I also dont like imperial knights with 3++ and 4++ invuls, those invuls in models so big is stupid), maybe a slighly discount. And they would still have been better than normal dreadnoughts.

You really need to check some FAQ's Knights haven't been able to make a 3++ for years.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Quick, explain why an ancient war machine from the time of The Heresy, piloted by an equally ancient champion who has fought for hundreds to thousands of years of constant warfare across the galaxy and literal hell, should have inferior skills to the venerable dreadnought of some thin blooded loyalist chapter from founding #142536.

I expect this to be entertaining.


Same reason an 80-year old Basketball player doesn't auto-win against a 25-year old one?

Hell, by that logic, the most ancient Marine / Primarch / etc.. that ever existed with 10.000 years of experience should probably have a BS/WS that is 2 or 3 worse than the basic Necron Warrior, who might've been around for the lifetime of all Space Marines taken together consecutively, lol.

The idea that things get better just because they get older is nonsense.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

changemod wrote:
 Galas wrote:
 Cruentus wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
FW Dreads having randomly BS/WS 2+ for no reason was part of the problem, just so buy-to-win-people get a buff out of paying premium for a Dread (assuming they actually bought the proper FW ones) was one of the biggest problems from the start. Glad they fixed it.

Ideally, they simply would've had only 30K rules, and in 40K it's a pretty alternative model you can use for a Redemptor Dread or so, but if that wasn't an option, bringing them (somewhat ... still shouldn't have an invul IMO) was a good start.


Quick, explain why an ancient war machine from the time of The Heresy, piloted by an equally ancient champion who has fought for hundreds to thousands of years of constant warfare across the galaxy and literal hell, should have inferior skills to the venerable dreadnought of some thin blooded loyalist chapter from founding #142536.

I expect this to be entertaining.


Besides the fact that fluff doesn't equal rules, and the GW design space is limited, how about this:

These ancient war machines from the crusades are slowly deteriorating over the ten thousand years since the Heresy. Worn out parts and servos have to be replaced with technology used in current dreadnoughts, where the match is not exact, targeting mechanisms degrade, and the ability to recalibrate them is being lost, the armor has been patched and repatched so many times, that while imposing, weak spots have developed. And finally, after 10,000 years locked inside, the mighty warriors of a bygone age are slowly dying, and while they are still mighty warriors in their own right, their reflexes, minds, and interfaces continue to degenerate.

There you go. A fluffy reason why an ancient piece of machinery would operate at the same level as a current dreadnought


Not only that but just like the Primaris Dreadnoughts, Leviathans killed their "occupants" or make them go mad so actually probably any venerable dreadnought has more centuries or milleniums of experience than any leviathan dreadnought.


Leviathans put more strain on their pilot which can cause psychosis, but they don’t boil them alive as a disposable component like the reactors in a Redemptor.

It should also be mentioned that in IA 13 Contemptors were specifically pointed out for not causing madness in their occupants like other csm dreadnoughts. That's why they are used to inter the greatest and most important champions. No mention of degrading components, either, I might add.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoiler:
 Galas wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well if they fry the occupants that quickly they really wouldn't be powerful war machines would they?


Why not? Look at the primaris ones. A couple of extra centuries of service inside a giant Dreadnought++ is probably something any marine would accept.

Personally as I said , WS and BS of 3+ and invulnerable of 5++ would have been enough (And I also dont like imperial knights with 3++ and 4++ invuls, those invuls in models so big is stupid), maybe a slighly discount. And they would still have been better than normal dreadnoughts.

Except those Vets will somehow have less experience than a VenDread which still exists as an entry. It's all garbage justification from people mad that FW made some Dreads worth running compared to the garbage Codex options.

Well said.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Quick, explain why an ancient war machine from the time of The Heresy, piloted by an equally ancient champion who has fought for hundreds to thousands of years of constant warfare across the galaxy and literal hell, should have inferior skills to the venerable dreadnought of some thin blooded loyalist chapter from founding #142536.

I expect this to be entertaining.


Same reason an 80-year old Basketball player doesn't auto-win against a 25-year old one?

Hell, by that logic, the most ancient Marine / Primarch / etc.. that ever existed with 10.000 years of experience should probably have a BS/WS that is 2 or 3 worse than the basic Necron Warrior, who might've been around for the lifetime of all Space Marines taken together consecutively, lol.

The idea that things get better just because they get older is nonsense.


The idea being that if a marine sticks around long enough they go from merely veteran to effectively a “character”.

A ven dread would be captain or chapter master if he wasn’t in his box.

..Honestly if we want full consistency then, if we’re deciding that dreads don’t go to 2+ when they become venerable then neither should Bjorn.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Quick, explain why an ancient war machine from the time of The Heresy, piloted by an equally ancient champion who has fought for hundreds to thousands of years of constant warfare across the galaxy and literal hell, should have inferior skills to the venerable dreadnought of some thin blooded loyalist chapter from founding #142536.

I expect this to be entertaining.


Same reason an 80-year old Basketball player doesn't auto-win against a 25-year old one?

Hell, by that logic, the most ancient Marine / Primarch / etc.. that ever existed with 10.000 years of experience should probably have a BS/WS that is 2 or 3 worse than the basic Necron Warrior, who might've been around for the lifetime of all Space Marines taken together consecutively, lol.

The idea that things get better just because they get older is nonsense.

A space marine interred in a dreadnought doesn't age like your hypothetical basketball player, nor does a space marine not interred in one either. And the dreadnought chassis itself is superior to the newer one because it was designed and built with the superior technology of the Crusade era.

You simply don't like anything fw. Just admit it.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Sunny Side Up wrote:
FW Dreads having randomly BS/WS 2+ for no reason was part of the problem, just so buy-to-win-people get a buff out of paying premium for a Dread (assuming they actually bought the proper FW ones) was one of the biggest problems from the start. Glad they fixed it.

Ideally, they simply would've had only 30K rules, and in 40K it's a pretty alternative model you can use for a Redemptor Dread or so, but if that wasn't an option, bringing them (somewhat ... still shouldn't have an invul IMO) was a good start.



Buy to win guys would have to be idiots buying fw. It's gw codexes that have broken stuff as gw wants gamers to buy them. Gw knows good rules sell and plastic is profitable. Ergo resin is made junk.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tzeentch's Fan Girl






Southern New Hampshire

So, am I allowed to be pissed that my Thousand Sons apparently cannot take anything from this book?

She/Her

"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln

Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.


DR:80S++G++M--B+IPwhfb01#+D+++A+++/fWD258R++T(D)DM+++
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
So, am I allowed to be pissed that my Thousand Sons apparently cannot take anything from this book?


Yes, especially given that FW had the only dread you could take without jumping through absurd fluff holes or converting a box dread from scratch.
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
So, am I allowed to be pissed that my Thousand Sons apparently cannot take anything from this book?


Short term yes, I'm sure it'll be faq'd before long. If it is intentional I'd like to see the reasoning.

Personally I think forgeworld is slowly just running down the 40k kits and stock until they're just the specialist games people.
   
Made in gb
Fireknife Shas'el





Leicester

So they get rid of the rules for the Squiggoth, despite still selling the model (I guess for how long remains to be seen) and they decide to address the fact that the gargantuan Squiggoth was everything the Stompa should have been by massively hiking the cost? Great.

DS:80+S+GM+B+I+Pw40k08D+A++WD355R+T(M)DM+
 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





tneva82 wrote:
Fw is designed for collectors who don't play. There's reason gw makes damned sure resin model rules suck. They don't want gamers to buy them.

I look at FW apologist nonsense constantly parroted on this forum and I wonder if it is transmission from some other planet. Because on this one, leviathans, contemptors, deredeos, FW custode gak, and various chaos minis were by far the most broken garbage through the entirety of 8th edition. I especially like looking at "SM" and "CSM" tournament lists that were invariably 3x leviathan, 2x contemptor/deredeo, plus some token mooks to screen and repair these, then here at bizarro posters complaining about "broken" plastic that somehow never shows up in tournaments, it's always recast spam. Even in 9th edition, when every non-SM player is complaining about eradicators, FW las contemptor is vastly more durable, has similar damage output, but with far larger range, better movement that doesn't affect accuracy, and better statline across the board, is twice as accurate - meaning what is arguably most OP plastic SM unit of the decade doesn't even compare with resin crap after it had been nerfed. """Sucks""" you say?
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Philadelphia

 Irbis wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Fw is designed for collectors who don't play. There's reason gw makes damned sure resin model rules suck. They don't want gamers to buy them.

I look at FW apologist nonsense constantly parroted on this forum and I wonder if it is transmission from some other planet. Because on this one, leviathans, contemptors, deredeos, FW custode gak, and various chaos minis were by far the most broken garbage through the entirety of 8th edition. I especially like looking at "SM" and "CSM" tournament lists that were invariably 3x leviathan, 2x contemptor/deredeo, plus some token mooks to screen and repair these, then here at bizarro posters complaining about "broken" plastic that somehow never shows up in tournaments, it's always recast spam. Even in 9th edition, when every non-SM player is complaining about eradicators, FW las contemptor is vastly more durable, has similar damage output, but with far larger range, better movement that doesn't affect accuracy, and better statline across the board, is twice as accurate - meaning what is arguably most OP plastic SM unit of the decade doesn't even compare with resin crap after it had been nerfed. """Sucks""" you say?


Then it will be very interesting to see where the broken crap comes from now. Since no one will have the FW boogeyman. I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count.

Since everything is being done now by the GW studio rules people, we'll see if any broken stuff appears - spoiler - it will!

I'll let others counter your argument that the "only" stuff that appeared in tourney broken lists was FW stuff. There are lots and lots of GW proper/codex broken stuff, in every edition.

On topic, I'm disappointed that my two armies that I was actively building - R&H and DKOK either got squatted or gutted - and no, I don't consider "use the guard dex" as equivalent. I guess it's another push back to 5th edition or so, and I'll just use the Vraks rules.

Its amazing to me how GW has completely stopped me from spending any money on their stuff since early 8th edition.

Legio Suturvora 2000 points (painted)
30k Word Bearers 2000 points (in progress)
Daemonhunters 1000 points (painted)
Flesh Tearers 2000+ points (painted) - Balt GT '02 52nd; Balt GT '05 16th
Kabal of the Tortured Soul 2000+ points (painted) - Balt GT '08 85th; Mechanicon '09 12th
Greenwing 1000 points (painted) - Adepticon Team Tourny 2013

"There is rational thought here. It's just swimming through a sea of stupid and is often concealed from view by the waves of irrational conclusions." - Railguns 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Irbis wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Fw is designed for collectors who don't play. There's reason gw makes damned sure resin model rules suck. They don't want gamers to buy them.

I look at FW apologist nonsense constantly parroted on this forum and I wonder if it is transmission from some other planet. Because on this one, leviathans, contemptors, deredeos, FW custode gak, and various chaos minis were by far the most broken garbage through the entirety of 8th edition. I especially like looking at "SM" and "CSM" tournament lists that were invariably 3x leviathan, 2x contemptor/deredeo, plus some token mooks to screen and repair these, then here at bizarro posters complaining about "broken" plastic that somehow never shows up in tournaments, it's always recast spam. Even in 9th edition, when every non-SM player is complaining about eradicators, FW las contemptor is vastly more durable, has similar damage output, but with far larger range, better movement that doesn't affect accuracy, and better statline across the board, is twice as accurate - meaning what is arguably most OP plastic SM unit of the decade doesn't even compare with resin crap after it had been nerfed. """Sucks""" you say?

I literally stopped reading after you claiming Custodes were broken with FW because not only is that fething hilarious and legit out of touch, they produce most of the options for that codex, which has basically none!

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Fw is designed for collectors who don't play. There's reason gw makes damned sure resin model rules suck. They don't want gamers to buy them.

I look at FW apologist nonsense constantly parroted on this forum and I wonder if it is transmission from some other planet. Because on this one, leviathans, contemptors, deredeos, FW custode gak, and various chaos minis were by far the most broken garbage through the entirety of 8th edition. I especially like looking at "SM" and "CSM" tournament lists that were invariably 3x leviathan, 2x contemptor/deredeo, plus some token mooks to screen and repair these, then here at bizarro posters complaining about "broken" plastic that somehow never shows up in tournaments, it's always recast spam. Even in 9th edition, when every non-SM player is complaining about eradicators, FW las contemptor is vastly more durable, has similar damage output, but with far larger range, better movement that doesn't affect accuracy, and better statline across the board, is twice as accurate - meaning what is arguably most OP plastic SM unit of the decade doesn't even compare with resin crap after it had been nerfed. """Sucks""" you say?

I literally stopped reading after you claiming Custodes were broken with FW because not only is that fething hilarious and legit out of touch, they produce most of the options for that codex, which has basically none!


If you don’t include FW stuff all custodes have is:

-Two repurposed marine units, one of which fails entirely to look the part
-Three types of shield captain, probably would have been a single datasheet before current design trends
-Two standard bearer variants, sadly not HQ so useless for filling detachments
-Three infantry squads that all fill approximately the same role with very similar equipment and stats
-Bike that also fills a similar role but is arguably straight up better because it has a hurricane bolter and moves faster

I’d argue you’d need to pick out at least two FW units to even hit basic faction diversity and make a list that doesn’t make me want to fall asleep.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Without FW Custodes aren't a real army. One has to be drunk on cocacola to believe Custodes FW units were broken, when they were some of the best balanced units in the game, and you know why? because GW did a "beta" phase for those rules and for the final version the powerfull stuff was nerfed (the telemon and the big tank) and they did take feedback (like making custodes with piriphyte and adrastite spears troops) into account.

I would hope all 40K rules would be made like GW did custodes 40k's rules, to be honest.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I’m only salty about the new relic rule and Levi only being T7. That thicc boi should be T8 ffs it’s the whole point of the thing.

Super happy about the Astraeus— I didn’t catch the points though? Are they still over 700 for cheapest load out?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/31 19:01:39


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Gadzilla666 wrote:

A space marine interred in a dreadnought doesn't age like your hypothetical basketball player, nor does a space marine not interred in one either. And the dreadnought chassis itself is superior to the newer one because it was designed and built with the superior technology of the Crusade era.

You simply don't like anything fw. Just admit it.


I like FW (or anything) with balanced rules.

I don't like FW (or anything) with blatant "pay-to-win-you-get-a-bonus-for-spending-money" rules.

Of course it applies to broken GW stuff just as much, lol.

You simply don't like playing fair and balanced games where you have to rely on skill for winning for a change. Just admit it.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut







Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

A space marine interred in a dreadnought doesn't age like your hypothetical basketball player, nor does a space marine not interred in one either. And the dreadnought chassis itself is superior to the newer one because it was designed and built with the superior technology of the Crusade era.

You simply don't like anything fw. Just admit it.


I like FW (or anything) with balanced rules.

I don't like FW (or anything) with blatant "pay-to-win-you-get-a-bonus-for-spending-money" rules.

Of course it applies to broken GW stuff just as much, lol.

You simply don't like playing fair and balanced games where you have to rely on skill for winning for a change. Just admit it.


You seem to be ignoring points as an element of the balancing of units.

If something has better rules, it should pay more points for them.

I don't have CA20 yet - no need until it looks like there's a chance of a game - but I just took a glance at MFM19, and in there the base chassis (for a Loyalist Levi, at least) was nearly three times the cost of a standard Codex Dread. Even allowing for weapons, they were significantly more expensive - in terms of points - to field, and as a Relic unit (at the time) they also partially dictated your army construction by requiring an additional Elite choice to be fielded.

Was nearly three times the base cost a high enough points cost for what they provided? Possibly not - but I don't own a Levi, so I didn't have chance to test them at that time and look at the relative performance. If it wasn't enough, though, you adjust the cost - hitting multiple elements on the datasheet at once seems like a reaction to the amount of whining about the unit that existed.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

A space marine interred in a dreadnought doesn't age like your hypothetical basketball player, nor does a space marine not interred in one either. And the dreadnought chassis itself is superior to the newer one because it was designed and built with the superior technology of the Crusade era.

You simply don't like anything fw. Just admit it.


I like FW (or anything) with balanced rules.

I don't like FW (or anything) with blatant "pay-to-win-you-get-a-bonus-for-spending-money" rules.

Of course it applies to broken GW stuff just as much, lol.

You simply don't like playing fair and balanced games where you have to rely on skill for winning for a change. Just admit it.

Yes, that's obviously why I've played Night Lords for two decades straight, refuse to mark any of my units, (so no Cacophony or Fury of Khorne), routinely played my 917 PPM fellblade throughout 8th, never used formations in 7th, never even considered buying a disco lord, etc., etc.. I'm a "fluff bunny ", I play fw units because they fit the fluff of Night Lords being a bunch of hard heads who refuse to worship chaos and hang out with daemons.

And I don't go around saying other people's units should be removed from the game because they're too "strong", everything can be, and should be, balanced by points.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Yes, that's obviously why I've played Night Lords for two decades straight, refuse to mark any of my units, (so no Cacophony or Fury of Khorne), routinely played my 917 PPM fellblade throughout 8th, never used formations in 7th, never even considered buying a disco lord, etc., etc.. I'm a "fluff bunny ", I play fw units because they fit the fluff of Night Lords being a bunch of hard heads who refuse to worship chaos and hang out with daemons.


Except Lord of the Night shows that that's not a universal Night Lords thing. Everything you refuse to use is perfectly fluffy for Night Lords depending on which source you use.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Hi everyone, are there any rumours concerning FW Knights? My poor Atrapos would really like to see the gaming table again! Thanks
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Platuan4th wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Yes, that's obviously why I've played Night Lords for two decades straight, refuse to mark any of my units, (so no Cacophony or Fury of Khorne), routinely played my 917 PPM fellblade throughout 8th, never used formations in 7th, never even considered buying a disco lord, etc., etc.. I'm a "fluff bunny ", I play fw units because they fit the fluff of Night Lords being a bunch of hard heads who refuse to worship chaos and hang out with daemons.


Except Lord of the Night shows that that's not a universal Night Lords thing. Everything you refuse to use is perfectly fluffy for Night Lords depending on which source you use.


As the ADB novels - In fact it all means that both your warband style and full on Chaos versions both fit the lore.
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

A space marine interred in a dreadnought doesn't age like your hypothetical basketball player, nor does a space marine not interred in one either. And the dreadnought chassis itself is superior to the newer one because it was designed and built with the superior technology of the Crusade era.

You simply don't like anything fw. Just admit it.


I like FW (or anything) with balanced rules.

I don't like FW (or anything) with blatant "pay-to-win-you-get-a-bonus-for-spending-money" rules.

Of course it applies to broken GW stuff just as much, lol.

You simply don't like playing fair and balanced games where you have to rely on skill for winning for a change. Just admit it.


Please tell me when my spined beast of chaos, blood slaughterer or my mates tomb sentinel were ever "pay to win" in 8th... or 9th...
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan






KirvesUK wrote:
Hi everyone, are there any rumours concerning FW Knights? My poor Atrapos would really like to see the gaming table again! Thanks


Look for 'Sprues and Brews'on Youtube, they posted a video going through the whole book yesterday. Knights are around 60-70% in.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

A space marine interred in a dreadnought doesn't age like your hypothetical basketball player, nor does a space marine not interred in one either. And the dreadnought chassis itself is superior to the newer one because it was designed and built with the superior technology of the Crusade era.

You simply don't like anything fw. Just admit it.


I like FW (or anything) with balanced rules.

I don't like FW (or anything) with blatant "pay-to-win-you-get-a-bonus-for-spending-money" rules.

Of course it applies to broken GW stuff just as much, lol.

You simply don't like playing fair and balanced games where you have to rely on skill for winning for a change. Just admit it.

Except FW was never the biggest offender soooooooo we aren't sure what you're babbling about.
   
 
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