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Well, it seems Chaplain Dreadnoughts got the ability to go Mortis. That makes me happy.
But Siege Dreadnoughts no longer exist. That makes me sad.
I'm not sure how to take all this. Gleeful depression?

No Twin-Heavy Bolters for Mortis Dreads either.

So, here's a question: some of the units in this also appear in the book, with the same rules, apparently. So, are they legal or not?

And some of these are still in production, like the Stormhammer.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
... some of the units in this also appear in the book...

They do?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
... some of the units in this also appear in the book...

They do?

Yeah, IIRC I saw at least one of the gun platforms still in the book. Norn Queen Alexis was showing it off on her channel and complaining about the Avenger nerf.

Does anyone else think it’s weird that only a couple of the Elysian special units made it in? There was a lot of other stuff in the range different to normal guard.

 Jadenim wrote:
Does anyone else think it’s weird that only a couple of the Elysian special units made it in? There was a lot of other stuff in the range different to normal guard.

no because it goes to show the general care of legends rules, i.e. non.

best hope for owner of these, that gw updates the IG line and these units show up there.

reality, thomas the drunk intern doing legends duty couldn't be bothered. Just like he couldn't be bothered with propperly pricing units or understanding as to wtf a quad launcher has lost on a hwt.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
So, here's a question: some of the units in this also appear in the book, with the same rules, apparently. So, are they legal or not?

And some of these are still in production, like the Stormhammer.

The answer is they’re all legal, even in Matched Play.

If you mean “will people who pretend all games are tournaments and enjoy finding reasons why people can’t use their lovely minis collection try and stop folk using things with any wafer thin sliver of doubt as their evidence?” why, yes, they will.

The general consensus is that the vast majority of players have no issues playing against legends outside of actual organized events (tournaments/leagues).

 Jidmah wrote:
The general consensus is that the vast majority of players has no issues playing against legends outside of actual organized events (tournaments/leagues).

I see it more as a "cover your assets" kind of thing.

Stop whining about these rules! They're free and we never said they were competitive play!

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

I see it more as a "cover your assets" kind of thing.

Stop whining about these rules! They're free and we never said they were competitive play!

Yes, but it doesn't answer the Tournament legal/Not Tournament Legal question. If they're in both the current FW book *and* legends, are they tourney legal or not? It makes things a bit confusing is all, and a pain in the ass to tournament organizers.

If it’s in the current FW book then surely it is legal, regardless of what is in Legends?

Everything is legal, it's just that Legends rules won't see their point cost revised. That's their only argument about tournaments not wanting to include Legends.

Of course, since for now, no other point revision has been made for the compendium, there's no reason to forbid Legends until it does.

Other than bad faith arguments from people not wanting to see Legends units in their opponent's army.

Sarouan wrote:
Everything is legal, it's just that Legends rules won't see their point cost revised. That's their only argument about tournaments not wanting to include Legends.

Of course, since for now, no other point revision has been made for the compendium, there's no reason to forbid Legends until it does.

Other than bad faith arguments from people not wanting to see Legends units in their opponent's army.

There's another reason: Discourage pay to win enviroment where those who can afford to buy OOP model for hundreds of euro's have distinct advantage.

To have legends available in tournament tournaments should allow heavy use of proxies as well to be fair.

tneva82 wrote:

Sarouan wrote:
Everything is legal, it's just that Legends rules won't see their point cost revised. That's their only argument about tournaments not wanting to include Legends.

Of course, since for now, no other point revision has been made for the compendium, there's no reason to forbid Legends until it does.

Other than bad faith arguments from people not wanting to see Legends units in their opponent's army.

There's another reason: Discourage pay to win enviroment where those who can afford to buy OOP model for hundreds of euro's have distinct advantage.

To have legends available in tournament tournaments should allow heavy use of proxies as well to be fair.

This is 40k, tneva82 - it is all "buy-the-right-army-to-win"...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
No Twin-Heavy Bolters for Mortis Dreads either.

?

They come with Twin Heavy Bolters as standard.

You clearly haven't heard of the MtG Vintage tournament format. You go play that if you think 40k is for poor people. Out of print stuff to win tournaments can get really expensive.

If an out-of print model from ten years ago would turn into an I-Win-Button, you can bet your hat that its price would immediately explode on the second hand market, and with legends being legends, that model would never be changed again.

Being able to keep playing those models everywhere but in tournaments is good compromise for everyone.

Yeah but GW didn't say they're banned in tournaments. In fact, they seem to have fallen over themselves with the speed they went to declare that TOs can do whatever they want.

 Platuan4th wrote:
They come with Twin Heavy Bolters as standard.

Ah! I thought they were unarmed to start. My bad.

Sure, but what would be the alternative?

"Dear tournament organizers, if we catch you allowing legends in your events, we will send Matt Ward over and have him read from his latest novel Draigo with a megaphone. Afterwards, he will break the legs of anyone still standing. - Kind Regards, Kevin Rountree"

Now all I can see is "Draigo: An Erotic Mystery" by Matt Ward.

How do I apply chaos black primer to pictures in my head?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Now all I can see is "Draigo: An Erotic Mystery" by Matt Ward.

Just when exactly where you invited to Mr Wards Library for a personal reading?

Your a bad person, funny but also probably about to be sued for Copyright infringement by GW too.

 Jidmah wrote:
How do I apply chaos black primer to pictures in my head?

Open head with saw, apply bleach first , then use spray?
I am no painboy though

 Dysartes wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Sarouan wrote:
Everything is legal, it's just that Legends rules won't see their point cost revised. That's their only argument about tournaments not wanting to include Legends.

Of course, since for now, no other point revision has been made for the compendium, there's no reason to forbid Legends until it does.

Other than bad faith arguments from people not wanting to see Legends units in their opponent's army.

There's another reason: Discourage pay to win enviroment where those who can afford to buy OOP model for hundreds of euro's have distinct advantage.

To have legends available in tournament tournaments should allow heavy use of proxies as well to be fair.

This is 40k, tneva82 - it is all "buy-the-right-army-to-win"...

Shhhh.... You'll ruin people's delusions of grandeur when they defeat their opponents "totally OP" Mortis Dreadnought.

With their virtuous and meticulously balanced Eradicators.

 Jidmah wrote:
You clearly haven't heard of the MtG Vintage tournament format. You go play that if you think 40k is for poor people. Out of print stuff to win tournaments can get really expensive.

If an out-of print model from ten years ago would turn into an I-Win-Button, you can bet your hat that its price would immediately explode on the second hand market, and with legends being legends, that model would never be changed again.

Being able to keep playing those models everywhere but in tournaments is good compromise for everyone.

Good way to win vintage: be a Magic Player since Revised.

That said, though, not only does Legends have some big holes, but again, we run into the issue of old units coming back into circulation. Which has happened with GW before. As I've said, this will be a huge headache for some time to come, particularly since it's clear that internal communication in GW has clearly not improved.

LOL, the Ork Battlefortress doesn't list what weapons it comes with.

That being stated, I do like that the Kroot Knarlok has rules (and points) again. for just 65 points that thing will bring the pain with a bolt thrower and kroot rifle.

 cuda1179 wrote:
LOL, the Ork Battlefortress doesn't list what weapons it comes with.

It comes with all the weapons Cuda... All of them.

Out of Print models?

90% of all FW units ive seen in my area were recasts or 3D printed.

Its left a sour taste in my own experiences.

I've expected a big Axe on FW after GWs house treatment of it's own kits. If conversions and 3rd party bitz were such a problem, FW was definitely contributing.

 Jadenim wrote:
Does anyone else think it’s weird that only a couple of the Elysian special units made it in? There was a lot of other stuff in the range different to normal guard.

What else was so different that a Eylsian Drop Troops Regiment with Regimental Trait wouldn't cover? This could be a bit of new codex future-proofing here.