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"Broken Realms" I would say almost certainly isn't literal.

I think the most exciting part about the new Broken Realms books is the fact that AoS seems to be more open to meaningful lore changes and story progressions since the setting isn't held to the same baggage as 40.000. It's one of the points that draws me to AoS: I can see the story I am engage in evolve and progress, hopefully without it keeping the eternal status quo.

The story won't go anywhere. If it will, it will end up in another stalemate.

 ingtaer wrote:
Looking forward to seeing what they have in store for the IDK, that box is an interesting choice though.

One thing, they haven't said they would release boxsets for these factions. For all we know the picture just shows the batelion contents(or at least the minimum required)

terry wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Looking forward to seeing what they have in store for the IDK, that box is an interesting choice though.

One thing, they haven't said they would release boxsets for these factions. For all we know the picture just shows the batelion contents(or at least the minimum required)

Ah, thanks for the clarification. Either way it will lead to a battalion though wont it? As I have three sharks and two Kings I can get behind that idea.

 ingtaer wrote:

terry wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Looking forward to seeing what they have in store for the IDK, that box is an interesting choice though.

One thing, they haven't said they would release boxsets for these factions. For all we know the picture just shows the batelion contents(or at least the minimum required)

Ah, thanks for the clarification. Either way it will lead to a battalion though wont it? As I have three sharks and two Kings I can get behind that idea.

yeah, it sounds like it

terry wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:

terry wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Looking forward to seeing what they have in store for the IDK, that box is an interesting choice though.

One thing, they haven't said they would release boxsets for these factions. For all we know the picture just shows the batelion contents(or at least the minimum required)

Ah, thanks for the clarification. Either way it will lead to a battalion though wont it? As I have three sharks and two Kings I can get behind that idea.

yeah, it sounds like it

The wording next to each image says "Combine this set with the rules from..." so would seem to imply but not quite confirm that they are coming out as boxsets.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I think the most exciting part about the new Broken Realms books is the fact that AoS seems to be more open to meaningful lore changes and story progressions since the setting isn't held to the same baggage as 40.000. It's one of the points that draws me to AoS: I can see the story I am engage in evolve and progress, hopefully without it keeping the eternal status quo.

It hasnt been around long enough to be drowned in it’s own fluff yet. It will get to a point where nothing major will change. After all 40K has changed greatly over the years.

If things change units and armies gets invalidated. If not it's saturday cartoon village.

There's reason gw games were supposed to be　settings but guess players want saturday cartoon village nothing ever changes stalemate

tneva82 wrote:
If things change units and armies gets invalidated. If not it's saturday cartoon village.

I think armies won't be invalidated, but some warscrolls will clearly be. Pretty sure the new ones for Morathi will replace the previous one - and will represent her new status or whatsoever after the events of the book.

Pretty obvious the heavy focus on mirrors in the video is part of the scheme leading to these two warscrolls. Either she'll use her reflection to invoke her two aspects at the same time, or she'll manage somehow to separate her monstruous form that she dislikes so much and make it a distinct entity.


The difference between AoS and 40k is that there is much more space to change things, since it's still not that detailed even now. Even so, I believe the changes will mainly focus on the "main" characters and see how they evolve. If Morathi is finally a goddess, that's quite the big change for her faction.

Well, from the last picture,
one can assume that Morathi treason will result in
Slaanesh breaking free from his prison...

... which could result in Tyrion coming to rescue Teclis...
just in time for AoS V3...

Nah that’s just one book, by the fifth or so we will be somewhere completely different then Tyrion will pop up randomly.
They won’t have it tie in so nicely surely

In AoS they do not necessarily invalidate armies, but they might change them by combining existing factions. They have done that with several factions and I wouldn't be surprised if they'd continue that tradition with some of the older armies like FEC and Nighthaunt. The difference between AoS and 40k is that in AoS you don't have many factions that have an overbearing amount of unit entries. This means that in the future I wouldn't be surprised if Nighthaunt would be combined with Legion of Nagash and Soulblight joins with Flesh-Eater Courts to make a more combined and meatier tomes.

I am at least more optimistic about actual changes in the AoS fluff compared to 40k.

AoS has had a very abnormal life as a wargame, partly because it began not as a wargame and got torn up by management choices in isolation from the customerbase.


As a result we saw really odd choices at the start - armies retired, armies shattered; armies randomly put together and a whole host of odditites. Mostly this is because AoS at launch wasn't a wargame, by that time it had warped into a boutique model line that happened to have some rules and a history of being a wargame; but its primary focus was just to be cool models to sell, build and paint.

I fully suspect that many of the fragmented army ideas were so that GW could "create" a new army with a halfdozen releases of models; but also retire armies just as fast. With the idea being that with no formal rules or armies and with the four grand alliances, players would collect a "grand alliance". If you "lost your army" in terms of models removed you'd just use the rules as printed and keep going since you were collecting it as part of a GA. Plus because it had no rules it didn't matter.



Thankfully saner heads prevailed and AoS changed. However it wasn't really until 2.0 that things have settled. I would not expect from now to see the same kind of changes repeated. I would expect armies as they are now to remain for the medium if not long term. I'm not expecting to see armies retired/combined/fragmented etc... It would not serve in GW's interests to start destabilising the game community and fanbase like that.

The only army that MIGHT shift and change in a bigger way is Cities of Sigmar. I could see that faction fragmenting or perhaps doing what Legions of Nagash has done in that it remains, but parts of it get teased out into their own army with their own identity and a larger roster of models unique to that army.


Otherwise the fluff changes will be just that, fluff changes. Morathi becoming a God won't remove her force; merge it; shatter it or anything.

 Overread wrote:

Otherwise the fluff changes will be just that, fluff changes. Morathi becoming a God won't remove her force; merge it; shatter it or anything.

Well it will change the way she works as a unit in the game, that's already something big.

And if she becomes a goddess, she clearly won't need to work in the shadows of a dead god anymore. It won't be the Daughters of Khaine anymore, but the Daughters of Morathi. That can lead to quite big changes to the faction rulewise...even if the miniatures stay the same. Maybe even a schism between the new believers and the old ones refusing to leave Khaine ?

Sarouan wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Otherwise the fluff changes will be just that, fluff changes. Morathi becoming a God won't remove her force; merge it; shatter it or anything.

Well it will change the way she works as a unit in the game, that's already something big.

And if she becomes a goddess, she clearly won't need to work in the shadows of a dead god anymore. It won't be the Daughters of Khaine anymore, but the Daughters of Morathi. That can lead to quite big changes to the faction rulewise...even if the miniatures stay the same.

It's unlikely she can just declare herself a God like that. Her people aren't just believers, they are a fanatical religious army. You don't just get to kick their god out from under them and tell them to change gods. If she did declare herself a god and take down Khaine chances are her faction would fragment very fast. She already has to turn Queens to Bloodwracks to maintain order and prevent them spotting that Khaine isn't around or trying to take too much power for themselves. Plus she siphons the belief in Khaine to gain power, if her people don't believe in her then she's still got to do that otherwise she doesn't get the power. Only then she's also got to fight her own religious armies as they try to retake the Heart of Khaine from a corrupted Oracle. One thing we have seen several times in AoS is that the gods are powerful, but they are not all-powerful. They can be struck down and weakened and even killed.

It's far more likely that if she ascends to god-hood it would change her relationship with the other gods and aelf gods; but wouldn't change the structure of her religious cult army. Or if it did she'd introduce it not as her replacing Khaine, but becoming the consort of Khaine or such. Basically for her its easier to maintain the lie than it is to cast it down.



Morathi appearing in both forms appears to be some form of illusion/shadow magic that she's tapped into to project herself in two places at once on the battlefield. It might also hint that she's been experimenting trying to create others of the same physical form like herself - not just half-way creations. Or its her vanity trying to tear out the Slaanesh infection from herself.



Of course lets not get ahead of ourselves; her plan could well fail. It's not as if Nagash's Black Pyramid worked.

It would be interesting if the way her plan backfired was by breaking the final chain holding Slaanesh prisoner, something which even sounds wonderfully Tzeentchian in terms of the irony.

Only rumor I've heard so far from some sources linked to GW is that Morathi does get her godhood in the new book, but I take it with some salt.

Regarding fluff/game changes and how static the game might be now I do think there is room for a lot of development. Cities of Sigmar is perhaps the only faction that can be properly fragmented, but in return there are a few factions that can be joined and with the Grand Alliance system I can well imagine that some factions might move between Grand Alliances.

Thing is GW encourages you to take armies with allies - heck many Order factions have theme battalions with Stormcast Allies. If they left Order that would leave disgruntled customers.

Plus lore wise you don't have to move between Grand Alliances to ally; we have orruks and trolls and goblins living in Free Cities. Death is full of cities where humans and the undead live side by side or at least tolerate each other.

 Eldarsif wrote:
Only rumor I've heard so far from some sources linked to GW is that Morathi does get her godhood in the new book, but I take it with some salt.

Regarding fluff/game changes and how static the game might be now I do think there is room for a lot of development. Cities of Sigmar is perhaps the only faction that can be properly fragmented, but in return there are a few factions that can be joined and with the Grand Alliance system I can well imagine that some factions might move between Grand Alliances.

Realisitically...why would she be getting a new warscroll if she didn't? It's not like current morathi is some huge design issue GW needs to correct. In fact, they've been adding Morathi's mechanic to TONS of things in 40k they liked it so much.

Morathi is absolutely going to achieve godhood, the question is what kind of consequences do the DoK and Order by extension face as a result?

 Overread wrote:
Thing is GW encourages you to take armies with allies - heck many Order factions have theme battalions with Stormcast Allies. If they left Order that would leave disgruntled customers.

Plus lore wise you don't have to move between Grand Alliances to ally; we have orruks and trolls and goblins living in Free Cities. Death is full of cities where humans and the undead live side by side or at least tolerate each other.

Depends on how much allies are used by customers. Even then I'd say that even if they were to switch Grand Alliances they could still retain much of the Alliances. If Idoneth were to move to Death or something there isn't really anything stopping Sylvaneth working with them except in cases of some major war. Would really only affect people who are playing Grand Alliances as factions and I doubt there are many of them.

Allying also just tends to be much more restrictive in AoS that I wonder how many people actually use them considering the fact that allies lose their faction traits. I've only thought about allying Sylvaneth with my Idoneth to fill in the Hero gap that Idoneth has and much of the allying I see in tourneys is a single hero from another faction that has some game vital ability.

Either way I am excited to see what the future of AoS holds.

If Morathi kicks this thing off, then hopefully her long-absent (from gameplay) son is set to finally make his appearence with his faction.

Eumerin wrote:
If Morathi kicks this thing off, then hopefully her long-absent (from gameplay) son is set to finally make his appearence with his faction.

Although I'd like to see what they do with them, I wouldn't mind seeing some more.. non-Elves. There are still (some) remnants around from the High Elves, Dark Elves and Wood Elves, we've had more of Morathi's snake-elves, new Idoneth fish-elves, some Kurnothi in Underworlds and now new Lumineth light-elves. I'd prefer to see some humans (vaguely normal humans if such a thing is possible). Maybe new undead - though we have quite some variants of those already. Or a completely new race. But maybe not yet more Elves. And I say that as someone who quite likes Elves...

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

Eumerin wrote:
If Morathi kicks this thing off, then hopefully her long-absent (from gameplay) son is set to finally make his appearence with his faction.

Although I'd like to see what they do with them, I wouldn't mind seeing some more.. non-Elves. There are still (some) remnants around from the High Elves, Dark Elves and Wood Elves, we've had more of Morathi's snake-elves, new Idoneth fish-elves, some Kurnothi in Underworlds and now new Lumineth light-elves. I'd prefer to see some humans (vaguely normal humans if such a thing is possible). Maybe new undead - though we have quite some variants of those already. Or a completely new race. But maybe not yet more Elves. And I say that as someone who quite likes Elves...

I don't think you're going to get a completely new race at this point, unless they do something like bring back the fimir or zoats. The problem right now is that Malekith/Malerion's elves are the only major group that's still completely missing (short of reintroducing either the Tomb Kings or "Neo-Bretonnians", which isn't going to happen anytime soon). We got a couple of early hints about his elves with the Quest models. But there's been nothing since, and they've become a bit conspicuous in their absence. Plus, Malekith has a long and complicated history with Morathi, and one would expect at least a token appearance on his part if his mother is pulling a particularly ambitious scheme. Since she's no longer backing him, I would expect that appearance to involve a carefully placed spanner in Morathi's scheme (much like what the Skaven used to inevitably do to Nagash in the Old World).

However, if the third edition is incoming next summer as many suspect, then chances are that any sort of roll-out of Malerion's elves is still at least a year away.

Unless they come with 3rd ed. Stormcast vs those elves. Edition brings tons of new kits to 2 faction. Would thus fit for new faction.

I think the problem with the Aelves - and I say this as an aelf aficionado - is that they all got lumped into the Grand Alliance Order which makes Grand Alliance Order closer to being Grand Alliance Aelf than anything else. If anything they should have divided the aelves between the Grand Alliances to make things a bit more balanced and give players more options.

If I were to do some rearranging I'd think the following would be nice:
- Order: Lumineth Realmlords
- Chaos: Morathi. She becomes "new" Slaanesh.
- Destruction: Sylvaneth.
- Death: Idoneth Deepkin since they are all about soul harvesting and could easily be paying tithes to Nagash.

I still find it odd when people say Morathi should become the new Slaanesh - because all the lore for DoK is fevered hate of chaos and Slaanesh in particular.

I could see Sylvaneth entering Destruction, but then I'd rather Destruction be renamed into "The Wilds" or somesuch representing more wild forces of the world rather than just purely destructive/raiding forces. Which Sylvaneth don't really fit into the latter part.


Idoneth in Death I think would work if Death was more than "factions who are ruled by Nagash".


Honestly I've no problem with Aelves being dominant in Order. If anything its a welcome change to see a fantasy race in a fantasy game be superior to humans. In most other fantasy settings we'd likely just have a dozen different human factions and then everything else. I think having imbalance and having more aelf than human is perfectly fine. If anything it highlights how fantastical and fantasy the setting is. Plus its refreshing to have a major fantasy line where elves and such are not ancient races steadily heading into extinction whilst being very haughty about it all.

 Overread wrote:

It's unlikely she can just declare herself a God like that. Her people aren't just believers, they are a fanatical religious army. You don't just get to kick their god out from under them and tell them to change gods. If she did declare herself a god and take down Khaine chances are her faction would fragment very fast. She already has to turn Queens to Bloodwracks to maintain order and prevent them spotting that Khaine isn't around or trying to take too much power for themselves. Plus she siphons the belief in Khaine to gain power, if her people don't believe in her then she's still got to do that otherwise she doesn't get the power. Only then she's also got to fight her own religious armies as they try to retake the Heart of Khaine from a corrupted Oracle. One thing we have seen several times in AoS is that the gods are powerful, but they are not all-powerful. They can be struck down and weakened and even killed.

It's far more likely that if she ascends to god-hood it would change her relationship with the other gods and aelf gods; but wouldn't change the structure of her religious cult army. Or if it did she'd introduce it not as her replacing Khaine, but becoming the consort of Khaine or such. Basically for her its easier to maintain the lie than it is to cast it down.

Well you forget there are factions inside of the Daughters of Khaine who are fully committed to Morathi, especially her creations with the souls stolen from Slaanesh.

I think Morathi's pride will drive her to show herself in her full glory if she becomes a goddess - maybe even saying that she's the new Khaine ressurected now. She longed for too long for that power to stay hidden in the shadows if she finally gets a grip on it.

The faction could work the same with her being a goddess, for sure - she'll just directly answer the prayers of her followers, even if she still lies to them about the true fate of Khaine.

Yes there would certainly be a schism, but the power she'll gain from it will be enough to wipe the traitors and build a full faction devoted to her. After all, she will be a goddess, not a scheming high priestess lieing about the fate of their dead god.

Morathi appearing in both forms appears to be some form of illusion/shadow magic that she's tapped into to project herself in two places at once on the battlefield. It might also hint that she's been experimenting trying to create others of the same physical form like herself - not just half-way creations. Or its her vanity trying to tear out the Slaanesh infection from herself.

I don't know, the video is more focused on her reflection in the mirror, not her actually using magic to be a two points on the battlefield.

And we know Morathi is ashamed of her true form reminding her of her time spent in Slaanesh's stomach, that she takes when she's unable to control her emotions. I think they will play more on that.

Of course lets not get ahead of ourselves; her plan could well fail. It's not as if Nagash's Black Pyramid worked.

It worked at least partially - and it was enough to drown the realms with this wild death magic disrupting how magic works.

That was a pretty big change at the time, even if Nagash didn't manage to rule all the realms.

Here, Morathi's goal is to become a goddess. It's not to rule all the realms. She'll certainly have that ambition later once she's one, but so far, the story can be built with her succeeding being a goddess. It would certainly shift the balance of power between the gods.

But you're right ! Better to see what GW has the guts to do or if it will be another PA / Wrath of the Everchosen disappointment.

Eldarsif wrote:I think the problem with the Aelves - and I say this as an aelf aficionado - is that they all got lumped into the Grand Alliance Order which makes Grand Alliance Order closer to being Grand Alliance Aelf than anything else. If anything they should have divided the aelves between the Grand Alliances to make things a bit more balanced and give players more options.

If I were to do some rearranging I'd think the following would be nice:
- Order: Lumineth Realmlords
- Chaos: Morathi. She becomes "new" Slaanesh.
- Destruction: Sylvaneth.
- Death: Idoneth Deepkin since they are all about soul harvesting and could easily be paying tithes to Nagash.

I quite like the sound of that!

Overread wrote:I could see Sylvaneth entering Destruction, but then I'd rather Destruction be renamed into "The Wilds" or somesuch representing more wild forces of the world rather than just purely destructive/raiding forces. Which Sylvaneth don't really fit into the latter part.

Wild Hunt-style evens are pretty blindly destructive. And now I'm just dreaming of more of the lovely Wood Elf range being retained and kept as their own faction instead of lumped into Cities of Sigmar, and subsequently mostly dropped...

Honestly I've no problem with Aelves being dominant in Order. If anything its a welcome change to see a fantasy race in a fantasy game be superior to humans. In most other fantasy settings we'd likely just have a dozen different human factions and then everything else. I think having imbalance and having more aelf than human is perfectly fine. If anything it highlights how fantastical and fantasy the setting is. Plus its refreshing to have a major fantasy line where elves and such are not ancient races steadily heading into extinction whilst being very haughty about it all.

I don't mind seeing more Elven factions than Human ones, but I'd rather see at least 1 actual Human faction instead of yet another new Elven one. Cities of Sigmar in my eyes won't be an AoS faction until they get any new sculpts, something to give them direction and cohesive visuals, something that makes them more than just remnanants of the Empire (and other races). German Landsknechte just don't fit AoS, for all the reasons you outlined above. Although I feel the Lumineth are hardly that innovative; perhaps they're recovering now, but they very much play the traditional "remnants of an ancient empire" thing, now combined with a history of excess their space cousins patented years ago.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I think the most exciting part about the new Broken Realms books is the fact that AoS seems to be more open to meaningful lore changes and story progressions since the setting isn't held to the same baggage as 40.000. It's one of the points that draws me to AoS: I can see the story I am engage in evolve and progress, hopefully without it keeping the eternal status quo.

Sure, it's been the most exciting part of AOS since it launched. We've had a massive amount of campaign books and story advancement, to the point when someone's like "AOS has no story" I believe they're willfully ignorant or just a poe.