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The Sigmarines are supposed to be a (more or less) human faction. But yes, I agree that the game could probably use an updated "baseline" human faction. And after giving it some thought, I think a lot could also be done with the Neo-Brettonian idea that I largely made in jest. A human heavy cavalry faction with "evolved" barding, and possibly even mounts, could look pretty spectacular.

One other item - while I'm not averse to spreading the aelves out across the Grand Orders, I think keeping them out of Chaos is appropriate. Also, the list leaves out the aelf faction that started this entire digression.

Eumerin wrote:
The Sigmarines are supposed to be a (more or less) human faction. But yes, I agree that the game could probably use an updated "baseline" human faction. And after giving it some thought, I think a lot could also be done with the Neo-Brettonian idea that I largely made in jest. A human heavy cavalry faction with "evolved" barding, and possibly even mounts, could look pretty spectacular.

Having seen GW's mounts as of late I'd REALLY love them to give us such an army. A more classic fantasy army that perhaps includes more classic creatures, yet at the same time has its own AoS flare to the designs. A kings, queens and knights type army would be great to see on the battlefields.

I wonder if Morathi has found a way to actually become Khaine - that way she gets her godhood and also keeps her massive Realm spanning cult.

It also depends if you actually have to have worshippers to be a God. Different fantasy worlds have different takes on this.

It appears not as Sigmar was still a god when alone in the void?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:

Eumerin wrote:
The Sigmarines are supposed to be a (more or less) human faction. But yes, I agree that the game could probably use an updated "baseline" human faction. And after giving it some thought, I think a lot could also be done with the Neo-Brettonian idea that I largely made in jest. A human heavy cavalry faction with "evolved" barding, and possibly even mounts, could look pretty spectacular.

Having seen GW's mounts as of late I'd REALLY love them to give us such an army. A more classic fantasy army that perhaps includes more classic creatures, yet at the same time has its own AoS flare to the designs. A kings, queens and knights type army would be great to see on the battlefields.

Isn't that Flesh Eater courts

 Mr Morden wrote:
I wonder if Morathi has found a way to actually become Khaine - that way she gets her godhood and also keeps her massive Realm spanning cult.

It also depends if you actually have to have worshippers to be a God. Different fantasy worlds have different takes on this.

It appears not as Sigmar was still a god when alone in the void?


Isn't that Flesh Eater courts

Far as we can tell belief does generate power for the gods, but it isn't the old source and it seems to vary a lot. Sigmar seems to have persisted partly on the power and belief from the Old World that was before entering the Realms. Meanwhile Morathi has to harvest belief that is originally heading toward Khaines heart. Demons from the Warp also seem to desire/feed from belief and believers to swell their ranks. Meanwhile we have Nagash who has innate magical talents even before the worship of the undead.

Suffice to say I think belief is a powerful boon for Gods and likely a cornerstone of what sets them apart from simply being very powerful wizards/magical users.



and yeah technically the FEC see themselves as knights; but its a theme that does not translate to their models one bit. Which I sort of like because it means we don't get quirky models like a vampire riding an undead pig thinking he's going to war on a nobel steed etc... Instead you have a larger vampire who is just bigger and can move faster who thinks he's on a horse.

Yeah I think you are right re belief as a power source but I still wonder if Morathi can become Khaine in the same way as Nagash has devoured myriad gods of the dead.

Khaine is explicitly a god of murder. Morathi's schtick has never really been exclusively focused on bloodshed. She might be able to absorb his power, but she wouldn't become him.

Idoneth make zero sense as Death.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Idoneth make zero sense as Death.

???

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Idoneth make zero sense as Death.

???

Someone suggested that Idoneth should be in Death because of soulstealing. It makes no sense. Nagash haaates them

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Idoneth make zero sense as Death.

???

Someone suggested that Idoneth should be in Death because of soulstealing. It makes no sense. Nagash haaates them

Nagash hates everyone - always has done....

but yeah - soul stealing is not something exclusive to Death - Sigmar did an awful lot of it - annoyed a lot of people - lving and dead in Syish when they found out where all their heroes went in their time of need.

Indeed those heroes who might have stood and prevailed against Nagash's legions were lost and thus Nagash was and is able to sweep across the Realm of Death, corrupting and twisting all to his will.

Interestingly Skaven appear not to be losing the war against Nagash and are instead standing strong against his legions from what little lore we've seen. So who knows perhaps Sigmar traded victory for the living with loss for the dead and hoped Nagash would not betray him. Or at least not so swiftly .

 Overread wrote:
Indeed those heroes who might have stood and prevailed against Nagash's legions were lost and thus Nagash was and is able to sweep across the Realm of Death, corrupting and twisting all to his will.

Interestingly Skaven appear not to be losing the war against Nagash and are instead standing strong against his legions from what little lore we've seen. So who knows perhaps Sigmar traded victory for the living with loss for the dead and hoped Nagash would not betray him. Or at least not so swiftly .

It was more against Chaos than Nagash as Chaos was defeating the broken pantheon and its varied disparate forces.

The Skaven can defeat pretty much anyone - but they always will spend more time scheming and fighting each other. Nagash is also directly attacking the Skaven Aferlife - which appears to be as bad or worse than their mortal existance or is that what you were refering to?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Indeed those heroes who might have stood and prevailed against Nagash's legions were lost and thus Nagash was and is able to sweep across the Realm of Death, corrupting and twisting all to his will.

Interestingly Skaven appear not to be losing the war against Nagash and are instead standing strong against his legions from what little lore we've seen. So who knows perhaps Sigmar traded victory for the living with loss for the dead and hoped Nagash would not betray him. Or at least not so swiftly .

It was more against Chaos than Nagash as Chaos was defeating the broken pantheon and its varied disparate forces.

The Skaven can defeat pretty much anyone - but they always will spend more time scheming and fighting each other. Nagash is also directly attacking the Skaven Aferlife - which appears to be as bad or worse than their mortal existance or is that what you were refering to?

I mean that in Sigmar's desire to beat Chaos he took souls from the dead realms. Weakening them and leaving them more vulnerable to Nagash. At least the human realms of the dead.

And yes I meant the dead Skaven in their afterlife; prevailing against Nagash's Legions. a Stalemate that I'd expect to persist.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
I think the most exciting part about the new Broken Realms books is the fact that AoS seems to be more open to meaningful lore changes and story progressions since the setting isn't held to the same baggage as 40.000. It's one of the points that draws me to AoS: I can see the story I am engage in evolve and progress, hopefully without it keeping the eternal status quo.

Sure, it's been the most exciting part of AOS since it launched. We've had a massive amount of campaign books and story advancement, to the point when someone's like "AOS has no story" I believe they're willfully ignorant or just a poe.

Agreed. And for the overwhelming majority of it I have really liked the stories & direction too, where as in 40k there are parts I simply tolerate.

Skaven defeating Nagash is simply what they do. The Skaven had a hand in almost all of Nagash's big screw-ups in the Old World, including the creation of the Tomb Kings. Off the top of my head, the inly notable defeat that the Skaven weren't involved in was when mortal Sigmar beat him.

Skaven in AoS are a bit like Orks in 40K - got a problem with the plot going nuts? Got someone about to win - throw the Skaven/Orks at em and mess up their plans real good like! Yes Yes!

It was absolutely hysterical and absolutely perfect when the Skaven screwed up Nagash's giant ritual of win-the-setting AGAIN.

 Overread wrote:
I still find it odd when people say Morathi should become the new Slaanesh - because all the lore for DoK is fevered hate of chaos and Slaanesh in particular.

Her becoming the new Slaanesh basically just means she would usurp their power which would be in line with her end goal. She likes power and becoming a god, even a chaos one, wouldn't be beneath her.

 Overread wrote:

Idoneth in Death I think would work if Death was more than "factions who are ruled by Nagash".

There is a certain Nagash problem in Death and I feel like GW needs to change that by changing the power balance. It's why I kinda want Soulblight and FEC to stand together and bring some other power that could potentially resist Nagash's influence. Currently GA: Death is kind stuck being the only Grand Alliance that has one all powerful ruler whereas other GA tend to have shakier grounds.

It is hinted in the novels that some of the Mortarchs aren't really all about Nagash and I'd love for GW to expand upon them and have some split from his Legion.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Idoneth make zero sense as Death.

???

Someone suggested that Idoneth should be in Death because of soulstealing. It makes no sense. Nagash haaates them

That just illustrates the fact that GA Death has a Nagash problem. Even Sigmar isn't as overbearing in Order as Nagash is in Death.

The last time Morathi tried to use Chaos for her own power she lost. She lost her mind, her body, her people and her whole world. She lost almost every single thing except her life and that she had to pull from the belly of Slaanesh. Tearing herself out of the horror before being dropped into the darkness of the Realm of Shadow. Wandering alone, her beautiful body mutated into a horror fitting for a creature of Slaanesh.


No I can't see her wanting to become Slaanesh or entertaining the infernal Chaos powers. She lost so much last time, to do so again would not be a bid for power but a move of sheer madness; if anything it would be like admitting that Slaanesh won and that she has no option but to bow to Chaos and become one with it.

Nope I'd wager as important as gaining power and godhood is to her; she'd not want to become Slaanesh or anything Chaos.

We don't always get what we want as the fates have a cruel jest in their mind. Even Morathi is vulnerable to what the fates have in store.

There is a certain Nagash problem in Death and I feel like GW needs to change that by changing the power balance. It's why I kinda want Soulblight and FEC to stand together and bring some other power that could potentially resist Nagash's influence. Currently GA: Death is kind stuck being the only Grand Alliance that has one all powerful ruler whereas other GA tend to have shakier grounds.

It is hinted in the novels that some of the Mortarchs aren't really all about Nagash and I'd love for GW to expand upon them and have some split from his Legion.

Neferata and Mannfred hate and fear Nagash but Neferata manages him (as always) better - but its also not certain if they even can exist without him or that they are anything more than his memories of them from the old world. However if they could get rid of him and get freedom - they would in a instant.

Arkhan and the Bonereaper Mortarch seem to be content to serve and Arkhan is even trying to steer Nagash and Sigmar towards a reconciliation - the dead think long term!

Morathi and Neferata work in similar ways behind the scenes - and Neferata would even likely be in a similar place in the cities if Nagash had not arisen.

I am intertested to see what role Morathi's son has in this.

 Eldarsif wrote:
We don't always get what we want as the fates have a cruel jest in their mind. Even Morathi is vulnerable to what the fates have in store.

Or we could have her draw enough power from the heart of Khaine to ascend, and since the power came through the heart, she'd most likely take an aspect of goddess of murder. Not turn into Khaine, but a deity of the same type. Much easier to sell to the witch-elves too, as new incarnation of Khaine rather than brand new goddess. Which fits her far more, and makes nice shift from old morathi to AoS morathi.

Would a God of Murder have to commit to a godly murder to ascend? Perhaps her plan is to stab and kill one of the other gods to attain a rise to power that way.


Morathi ends the Age of Sigmar and ushers in the Age of Morathi as she kills the Storm God

No one is going to replace Slaanesh. The hedonite battletome even explains why quite bluntly; replacing Slaanesh means becoming part of the Great Game, and anyone who tried would be obliterated by the other three in short order--they wouldn't even come close. But more importantly, that just isn't a plot thread GW can reasonably work with. That theory is just the new version of 'they are squatting Slaanesh!'

As for Idoneth in Death, I would respectfully say that someone who suggests that does not understand Idoneth or Death very well. "Harvests souls" fits into the overall Death theme well but it is not monopolized by Nagash (the Soul Wars are about him trying to), nor does every Death faction even do so.

Cronch wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
We don't always get what we want as the fates have a cruel jest in their mind. Even Morathi is vulnerable to what the fates have in store.

Or we could have her draw enough power from the heart of Khaine to ascend, and since the power came through the heart, she'd most likely take an aspect of goddess of murder. Not turn into Khaine, but a deity of the same type. Much easier to sell to the witch-elves too, as new incarnation of Khaine rather than brand new goddess. Which fits her far more, and makes nice shift from old morathi to AoS morathi.

Indeed - it might be that the worship and the heart are changing her as well into what Khaine's worshippers believe her to be.....

Be interesting to see if DoK still stay as GA Order or something else - however they are (currently) more part of society and less predators on the edge than the deepkin - despite what likely some Stormcast and the Order of Azyr want.

Also how the Scourge and other more dodgy factions react.

"Morathi-Khaine" does have a nice ring to it.

 Eldarsif wrote:

There is a certain Nagash problem in Death and I feel like GW needs to change that by changing the power balance. It's why I kinda want Soulblight and FEC to stand together and bring some other power that could potentially resist Nagash's influence. Currently GA: Death is kind stuck being the only Grand Alliance that has one all powerful ruler whereas other GA tend to have shakier grounds.

It is hinted in the novels that some of the Mortarchs aren't really all about Nagash and I'd love for GW to expand upon them and have some split from his Legion.

Bring back the Tomb Kings (there's mention of them within the setting, so they do exist), and give them a mechanic that allows them to stay out from under Nagash's thumb. Maybe their priestly rituals somehow still work. That would solve the problem.

It could also add some internal conflict to the Death faction since some of the Mortrarchs would no doubt start causing intrigues to try and figure out how the Tomb Kings are able to stay free, and whether their methods could be used by the Mortrarchs themselves.



As for the official topic -

Morathi isn't afraid of spilling blood. But she was always linked to pleasure, not murder. Malekith was the publicly proclaimed Avatar of Khaine in Druuchii society (note that was merely a proclamation to keep Khaine's Cult under control; he wasn't actually linked to Khaine), while Morathi led the Cult of Pleasure. Even given her new-found revulsion for Slaanesh, actively becoming the God of Murder would seem out of character for her. Also, fully embracing murder as her portfolio might risk the problem that Khaine has always had - namely, becoming too closely linked to Khorne.

I see that the Morathi book will be available as an eBook. That does annoy me. If 40K was still available as eBooks I’d have bought the rule book, space marine codex, Necron codex and preordered Death Watch by now.

Tomb Kings are quite often mentioned in the background and their alligeince or otherwise to nagash varies:

https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Yaros is a good example

YES YES
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/01/sunday-preview-the-road-to-godhood/

It's all up for grabs next sunday! Shadow and Pain; the starter sets for the Cities of Sigmar, Stormcast, Idoneth and Slaves to Darkness themes and the Morathi book!

Now to await the price fairies to see what its all going to cost. Right now I'm down for at least one duel set and the Morathi book. I'd sort of like 2 of the set (since I collect both forces); but I'm not heavily pressured. At the very least this gets most of my November spending out of the way in the first week. Just got to wait for the 5th Gotrek and Felix Omnibus later this month