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 trexmeyer wrote:
I don't know how you could you read Starship Troopers, watch Aliens, and then proceed to conclude that Aliens is somehow an attempt to get Starship Troopers on the big screen.

It was actually in a different order for me; I watched Aliens growing up, then Verhovens film in 1997 and then on recommedation by my father, the Heinlein novel. A few years later I found out that Cameron had indeed used Heinlein's book, and passed it round for members of the cast to read.

SST was a social novel more than anything else, a novel essentially endorsing a form of rule by force imposed on the majority.

Joe stalin once said "whose who vote decide nothing, those who count the votes decide everything."

In the SST universe the power structure picks who can vote, so it keeps the status quo how it wants it. It's a case of the voters not picking the leaders, the leaders pick the voters.

In the aliens universe "the company' runs everything, the military included.

While i don't despise heinlein as some do for his views I do admit he had a very schizophrenic seeming view on things. His two most famous novels had both parallels and extreme dichotomies. Anyone read "stranger in a strange land"? That was different than SST in that while SST advocated or at least positively portrayed a society that was close to if not actually a military dictatorship,SIASL advocated a form libertarian anarchy, yet while preaching this total personal freedom idea it was based on the people in the new libertarian order possessing the power to simply wipe anyone who resisted or opposed them out of existence until only the new libertarian anarchists were left. One subtle yet very chilling line in SIASL mentioned that people often tried to file criminal charges against the new movement based on mike and his magic martian powers, but "Complaining witnesses always failed to appear in court." Gee, I wonder why?

So while SST sang the virtues of a society based on military force that put down all opposition, SIASL endorsed a total non government non military system of pure anarchy and personal freedom, where ll opposition was simply "discorporated" to be reincarnated as future members of the society.

Ok, little off topic now so I'll leave it here. Maybe someone wants to open up a heinlein thread?

 Matt Swain wrote:

In the aliens universe "the company' runs everything, the military included.

This is not in fact true. The company does not run the USCM. It isn't even part of the same "country".

Weyland Yutani is a major corporation in a galactic nation that has contracts with other galactic nations. It's like Boeing making planes for European nations. WY has contracts with the USCM to produce a lot of their goods. International policy, due to the vastness of space, has different military organizations act as relief and support for different colonies IF requested. WY used the USCM in aliens to act as ignorant front line support to check on a colony that had gone dark in a process that was pretty standard by that point. What was not standard was that the company man Burke was using their ignorance to recover samples of the aliens. The USCM is not owned by or under the control of WY in any capacity.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Water world. There is no middle ground. People either hate or love this movie. I LOVE this movie.

I thought it was not bad - but not great ......

Are you sure you exist? Just double-checking.

I've never seen Water World, so no comments on that movie.

As for my movie that was surprisingly good... I'm not sure it counts (because it wasn't GOOD, so to say) is Jason X. The one where Jason ends up in space.

It's a terrible movie, not scary in the slightest. But holy hell, it's hilarious! It's so over the top, that when my dad and I caught it on the TV one night, we could not stop watching. So, bad movie, but really enjoyable.

I felt the same way about Jason Goes to Hell and many of the Nightmare on Elm Street movies. They just revel in what they are.

SamusDrake wrote:

Its got "Starship Troopers" in the title and like Dune'84 is going to be compared to it's source material regardless of its intent. If they really wanted to do their own thing then they should have done a name change

they did, SST was Called "Bug hunt on Planet P" until they realised how similar their script is to SST and as they saw that no one owns the movie rights, they bought them to avoid problems (as someone else buying them and sue their movie because of the similarities), renamed the movie and the characters and called it done

Cannibal Holocaust

One of the Big Boys of the video nasty world.

And you know? There’s far more to it than gore and shock. Without defending some of tricks they used - it’s still a surprisingly thought provoking film for its class.

However it is not for the faint of heart. At all.

SamusDrake wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:
I don't know how you could you read Starship Troopers, watch Aliens, and then proceed to conclude that Aliens is somehow an attempt to get Starship Troopers on the big screen.

It was actually in a different order for me; I watched Aliens growing up, then Verhovens film in 1997 and then on recommedation by my father, the Heinlein novel. A few years later I found out that Cameron had indeed used Heinlein's book, and passed it round for members of the cast to read.

He used it as a point of influence, but that was it. So did 40K. Notably there are no Marines in SST, they are Mobile Infantry. There is also a clear gap in professionalism between SST and Aliens, along with many significant differences in both the political and military structures of each universe.

 Matt Swain wrote:
SST was a social novel more than anything else, a novel essentially endorsing a form of rule by force imposed on the majority.

Joe stalin once said "whose who vote decide nothing, those who count the votes decide everything."

In the SST universe the power structure picks who can vote, so it keeps the status quo how it wants it. It's a case of the voters not picking the leaders, the leaders pick the voters.

In the aliens universe "the company' runs everything, the military included.

While i don't despise heinlein as some do for his views I do admit he had a very schizophrenic seeming view on things. His two most famous novels had both parallels and extreme dichotomies. Anyone read "stranger in a strange land"? That was different than SST in that while SST advocated or at least positively portrayed a society that was close to if not actually a military dictatorship,SIASL advocated a form libertarian anarchy, yet while preaching this total personal freedom idea it was based on the people in the new libertarian order possessing the power to simply wipe anyone who resisted or opposed them out of existence until only the new libertarian anarchists were left. One subtle yet very chilling line in SIASL mentioned that people often tried to file criminal charges against the new movement based on mike and his magic martian powers, but "Complaining witnesses always failed to appear in court." Gee, I wonder why?

So while SST sang the virtues of a society based on military force that put down all opposition, SIASL endorsed a total non government non military system of pure anarchy and personal freedom, where ll opposition was simply "discorporated" to be reincarnated as future members of the society.

Ok, little off topic now so I'll leave it here. Maybe someone wants to open up a heinlein thread?

A fair observation and I agree that we should get back to the topic on hand, as it wasn't my intention to derail the thread.

I think we'll save the Heinlein stuff for another time.


Moving on; Jaws 2.

For all the Jasons, Freddies and Michaels of this world, nothing deserves a scream more than scarface-shark. Where the first film takes a while to get up to speed, Jaws 2 is already dishing out the goods and chewing up Amity Bay. Seriously, Michael Bay explosion only 20 minutes in!

The electrocution scene is particularly memorable, and surprisingly John Williams doesn't overuse the Jaws theme. As far as sequels go its pretty good and could have been far worse....MUCH worse...

Voss wrote:
People remember Dances with Wolves, generally frown or laugh at the horrid Robin Hood (or swoon at the music, sadly), and the rest are left as a forgotten morass.

When did Prince of Thieves reach "horrid" status? I thought that was saved for the Russell Crowe interpretation.

 Dysartes wrote:
When did Prince of Thieves reach "horrid" status?

It would be utterly dreadful if it weren't for the efforts of one man.

"I'm going to cut your heart out with a spoon.... Because it's dull you twit, it'll hurt more."

"You, my room, ten thirty tonight. You, ten fourtyfive. And bring a friend."

"That's my wife, crone."

Prince of Thieves is hands down the definitive Robin Hood movie.

It damn well shouldn't be but it is.

But Men in Tights can speak with an English accent!

 Dysartes wrote:

Voss wrote:
People remember Dances with Wolves, generally frown or laugh at the horrid Robin Hood (or swoon at the music, sadly), and the rest are left as a forgotten morass.

When did Prince of Thieves reach "horrid" status? I thought that was saved for the Russell Crowe interpretation.

When it came out.
Mawkish Bryan Adams songs, random pointless witchcraft, and Costner, Mary Elizabeth and Christian Slater Americanizing everything in sight.

Plus the catapult scene, which should have been a merciful end to the whole affair.

Not to mention Dover to Hadrian’s Wall in around 30 seconds flat.

Voss wrote:


Plus the catapult scene, which should have been a merciful end to the whole affair.

That alone deserves an exalt.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not to mention Dover to Hadrian’s Wall in around 30 seconds flat.

But England is small, right?

Also, you could ignore it if it was just the cut, but he specifically has a line saying they’ll be there by nightfall. It’s about 200 miles and you are on foot! You can barely do the journey in that time in the 21st century!

Oh and it isn’t a straight cut, there’s a little scene in between where they stop by a tree on a wall in a little valley between two hills. It’s a beautiful location. So beautiful, it’s quite famous and recognisable. Pity it’s famous and recognisable for being on Hadrian’s Wall...

 Jadenim wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not to mention Dover to Hadrian’s Wall in around 30 seconds flat.

But England is small, right?

Also, you could ignore it if it was just the cut, but he specifically has a line saying they’ll be there by nightfall. It’s about 200 miles and you are on foot! You can barely do the journey in that time in the 21st century!

Oh and it isn’t a straight cut, there’s a little scene in between where they stop by a tree on a wall in a little valley between two hills. It’s a beautiful location. So beautiful, it’s quite famous and recognisable. Pity it’s famous and recognisable for being on Hadrian’s Wall...

Its alright, Robin had remembered to have his Weetabix that morning.

How dare anyone bad mouth Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves! Such a glorious film. At one point in the 90's (atleast on TV where I lived) it was always being played on some channel on either Saturday or Sunday afternoons. And since we didn't have all the choice people have today with entertainment I'd always sit and watch it.

That film is just like a nice warm blanket on a cold winter day.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:

In the aliens universe "the company' runs everything, the military included.

This is not in fact true. The company does not run the USCM. It isn't even part of the same "country".

Weyland Yutani is a major corporation in a galactic nation that has contracts with other galactic nations. It's like Boeing making planes for European nations. WY has contracts with the USCM to produce a lot of their goods. International policy, due to the vastness of space, has different military organizations act as relief and support for different colonies IF requested. WY used the USCM in aliens to act as ignorant front line support to check on a colony that had gone dark in a process that was pretty standard by that point. What was not standard was that the company man Burke was using their ignorance to recover samples of the aliens. The USCM is not owned by or under the control of WY in any capacity.

}

I dunno, looks like 'the company' runs everything in the aliens universe including the government. They got their weasel on the ship on Aliens. They seem to have no fear of being charged with murder, even of marines.. they seem to fear no consequences of their actions.

 Matt Swain wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:

In the aliens universe "the company' runs everything, the military included.

This is not in fact true. The company does not run the USCM. It isn't even part of the same "country".

Weyland Yutani is a major corporation in a galactic nation that has contracts with other galactic nations. It's like Boeing making planes for European nations. WY has contracts with the USCM to produce a lot of their goods. International policy, due to the vastness of space, has different military organizations act as relief and support for different colonies IF requested. WY used the USCM in aliens to act as ignorant front line support to check on a colony that had gone dark in a process that was pretty standard by that point. What was not standard was that the company man Burke was using their ignorance to recover samples of the aliens. The USCM is not owned by or under the control of WY in any capacity.

}

I dunno, looks like 'the company' runs everything in the aliens universe including the government. They got their weasel on the ship on Aliens. They seem to have no fear of being charged with murder, even of marines.. they seem to fear no consequences of their actions.

The company runs everything in the films because the films expressly deal the company properties. The ship in the first film is their own ship and its not even an exploratory ship nor crew. It's a simple transport with just 1 android loyal to the company directive to secure the sample. Aliens 2 its a Weyland terraforming site, but again all they muster is 1 ship of less than 20 people to investigate and that's with one manager who has some understanding that the Alien is a real live creature and likely has caused trouble at the site.

Basically in both cases we are dealing with a very tiny sphere of influence in the grand scheme of things so its very easy for the company to appear like gods. Yet at the same time the company is honestly spending very few resources on the whole venture; with the second film clearly showing that the company was less involved than it is one manager.

It's not till the 3rd film that we really see anyone in serious power showing serious interest in the Alien and then its too late. They appear in the last moments before its all ended. That's perhaps the first real sign we get that the company has significant resources of their own. From then on we never see them again in the original films as Alien 4 deals directly with the military of its time period, with a suggestion that by that time period Weyland is a small-fry compared to the military interests.

I appreciate things got heated over my opinion of Starship Troopers and Aliens, but maybe its best we stick to the topic at hand.

For what its worth, maybe I should have kept quiet on my opinion and just said Starship Troopers is a fun film.

Not so much surprising in terms of quality, but surprising in terms of accuracy.

I had no idea how accurate Office Space was until I did software development for a large corporation. The inefficiencies and wasted time there was extraordinary. Not quite as bad as Office Space, but it was still impressively unorganized.

Speaking of software development - Tron and Tron Legacy.

Most people think of The Terminator and The Matrix when it comes to computers being represented in film, but as a programming enthusiast the Tron movies feel more authentic to the spirit of the field. Whenever discouraged I always pop those in the dvd player to get the bug once again.

Plus, Tron Legacy has a pretty cool soundtrack.....

Daft Punk, in the house!

Another movie that I found surprisingly entertaining is The Scorpion King. Especially with commentary from The Rock himself.

I really like Tron Legacy and I was surprised and pleased that it’s a direct sequel to the original, rather than a reimagining or soft reboot.

SamusDrake wrote:
Prince of Thieves is hands down the definitive Robin Hood movie.

It damn well shouldn't be but it is.

for shame !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_and_Marian


back on topic :

.. I prefer Predator 2 over Predator and think it's a better film in pretty much every way.

I liked predator 2 as well, but have a hard time watching it now due to gary busey being in and and after something he did I really don;t want to see him in a movie.

The fact he gets killed helps a little.