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Welp. My chod hoard army is illegal now. Thanks GeeDubs.

Spoletta wrote:
Some DG expert enlighten me on it all, but to me they look insanely powerful.

Nah, I agree. Essentially the combos were all curbed, but in return everything was buffed up to the level of our good units.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Welp. My chod hoard army is illegal now. Thanks GeeDubs.

Oh cool, you've seen all of Typhus' special rules then?

I strongly suspect Poxwalkers are either going up to 30 strong or having Typhus as your Warlord will allow you to ignore the followers rule.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Welp. My chod hoard army is illegal now. Thanks GeeDubs.

Oh cool, you've seen all of Typhus' special rules then?

I strongly suspect Poxwalkers are either going up to 30 strong or having Typhus as your Warlord will allow you to ignore the followers rule.

I don't think you're correct. The Plague Marine tax is real, and it is not going away. Also, Poxwalkers do not have "Core" as a keyword.

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Welp. My chod hoard army is illegal now. Thanks GeeDubs.

Oh cool, you've seen all of Typhus' special rules then?

I strongly suspect Poxwalkers are either going up to 30 strong or having Typhus as your Warlord will allow you to ignore the followers rule.

I don't think you're correct. The Plague Marine tax is real, and it is not going away. Also, Poxwalkers do not have "Core" as a keyword.

Typhus' entire schtick is hordes of Zombies. The "tax" (lol, almost as if they want DG armies to be comprised of DG...) is there for standard armies but there are numerous examples throughout GW's history of named characters having a modified army of some sort and special rules that would adjust the FOC.

Strats looking good but i´m wondering what the rules for our elites will be. Most interested in changes (if any) to flamer guy and the surgeon.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Welp. My chod hoard army is illegal now. Thanks GeeDubs.

Oh cool, you've seen all of Typhus' special rules then?

I strongly suspect Poxwalkers are either going up to 30 strong or having Typhus as your Warlord will allow you to ignore the followers rule.

I don't think you're correct. The Plague Marine tax is real, and it is not going away. Also, Poxwalkers do not have "Core" as a keyword.

Typhus' entire schtick is hordes of Zombies. The "tax" (lol, almost as if they want DG armies to be comprised of DG...) is there for standard armies but there are numerous examples throughout GW's history of named characters having a modified army of some sort and special rules that would adjust the FOC.

And there are numerous instances where a character's (or army's) "shtick" is one thing, and the rules do not reflect it in the slightest. Wanting something won't make it real.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Welp. My chod hoard army is illegal now. Thanks GeeDubs.

Oh cool, you've seen all of Typhus' special rules then?

I strongly suspect Poxwalkers are either going up to 30 strong or having Typhus as your Warlord will allow you to ignore the followers rule.

MAYBE someone didn't want to take Typhus.

 puma713 wrote:
I love the thought of Heroically Intervening with a Fleshmower drone.

This was the first thing that crossed my mind as well. With a 6" free move that thing has a 7" ring around it where you really don't want to be. Makes flying up mid table turn 1 to control the center that much more threatening. Either hold back and get charged turn 2 or move up and get tagged by at least one of them turn 1.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Welp. My chod hoard army is illegal now. Thanks GeeDubs.

Oh cool, you've seen all of Typhus' special rules then?

I strongly suspect Poxwalkers are either going up to 30 strong or having Typhus as your Warlord will allow you to ignore the followers rule.

This would make sense, especially considering the patrol box

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Welp. My chod hoard army is illegal now. Thanks GeeDubs.

Oh cool, you've seen all of Typhus' special rules then?

I strongly suspect Poxwalkers are either going up to 30 strong or having Typhus as your Warlord will allow you to ignore the followers rule.

MAYBE someone didn't want to take Typhus.

Oh, no, it's totally cool that my army themed around a hoard of nobodies being herded into a meatgrinder also includes like the second most important individual in the Legion in every game...

 Red Corsair wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
I love the thought of Heroically Intervening with a Fleshmower drone.

This was the first thing that crossed my mind as well. With a 6" free move that thing has a 7" ring around it where you really don't want to be. Makes flying up mid table turn 1 to control the center that much more threatening. Either hold back and get charged turn 2 or move up and get tagged by at least one of them turn 1.

And, iirc (don't have my book with me at work ), you don't have to have LOS to HI, so he can be hidden in a building somewhere near the middle, ready to HI.

You can always pretend he's just a regular Necromantic DG Lord but with Typhus' rules. That's what I would do anyway since I dislike Typhus' lore too much.

 Castozor wrote:
You can always pretend he's just a regular Necromantic DG Lord but with Typhus' rules. That's what I would do anyway since I dislike Typhus' lore too much.

I'd probably just use a LoC with Typhus' rules. It's more the principle of the matter that people were, in fact, running zombie hordes as an army. They are completely invalidated.

 puma713 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
I love the thought of Heroically Intervening with a Fleshmower drone.

This was the first thing that crossed my mind as well. With a 6" free move that thing has a 7" ring around it where you really don't want to be. Makes flying up mid table turn 1 to control the center that much more threatening. Either hold back and get charged turn 2 or move up and get tagged by at least one of them turn 1.

And, iirc (don't have my book with me at work ), you don't have to have LOS to HI, so he can be hidden in a building somewhere near the middle, ready to HI.

You also don't have to succeed in making it to within engagement range. Meaning, even if terrain prevents you from engaging you still get to move which can help get it closer or in denial range.

I always liked the fleshmower the most, now it's looking really strong. Not sure I'd go 3 mowers, but at least 1 seems really strong for mid table.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Castozor wrote:
You can always pretend he's just a regular Necromantic DG Lord but with Typhus' rules. That's what I would do anyway since I dislike Typhus' lore too much.

I'd probably just use a LoC with Typhus' rules. It's more the principle of the matter that people were, in fact, running zombie hordes as an army. They are completely invalidated.

Eh, it happens. I ran 12 Windriders as troop choices in 7E, and when the 8E CWE Codex dropped, I had no troops at all. It sucked, but I adapted.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Castozor wrote:
You can always pretend he's just a regular Necromantic DG Lord but with Typhus' rules. That's what I would do anyway since I dislike Typhus' lore too much.

I'd probably just use a LoC with Typhus' rules. It's more the principle of the matter that people were, in fact, running zombie hordes as an army. They are completely invalidated.

That entire principle melts when folks start playing none marine armies.

My DE or especially GSC for example basically have generic characters with all the limitations on rules and gear of a named character lol.

It sucks to have armies invalidated, absolutely. But surely everyone saw that for the past 3 years GW have been trying to push all chaos away from being horde?

As a whole, this restriction seems to be a buff (Not for you but in general).

Cultists and poxwalkers had been artificially increased in price to try and discourage them. Now they seem to be well priced and I feel it is because of this restriction.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Castozor wrote:
You can always pretend he's just a regular Necromantic DG Lord but with Typhus' rules. That's what I would do anyway since I dislike Typhus' lore too much.

I'd probably just use a LoC with Typhus' rules. It's more the principle of the matter that people were, in fact, running zombie hordes as an army. They are completely invalidated.

Eh I'm personally not against rules enforcing fluff but the rule would probably be better if it was up to 2 of poxwalkers and/or cultist mix as you want rather than this. What lists want to actually run all 3 of those options simultaneously?

 mokoshkana wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Castozor wrote:
You can always pretend he's just a regular Necromantic DG Lord but with Typhus' rules. That's what I would do anyway since I dislike Typhus' lore too much.

I'd probably just use a LoC with Typhus' rules. It's more the principle of the matter that people were, in fact, running zombie hordes as an army. They are completely invalidated.

Eh, it happens. I ran 12 Windriders as troop choices in 7E, and when the 8E CWE Codex dropped, I had no troops at all. It sucked, but I adapted.

And that was also unacceptable.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Castozor wrote:
You can always pretend he's just a regular Necromantic DG Lord but with Typhus' rules. That's what I would do anyway since I dislike Typhus' lore too much.

I'd probably just use a LoC with Typhus' rules. It's more the principle of the matter that people were, in fact, running zombie hordes as an army. They are completely invalidated.

Eh, it happens. I ran 12 Windriders as troop choices in 7E, and when the 8E CWE Codex dropped, I had no troops at all. It sucked, but I adapted.

And that was also unacceptable.

So no units should ever be sunset? Should the fundamental rules for an army be EXCLUSIVELY based on its previous iterations?

 mokoshkana wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Castozor wrote:
You can always pretend he's just a regular Necromantic DG Lord but with Typhus' rules. That's what I would do anyway since I dislike Typhus' lore too much.

I'd probably just use a LoC with Typhus' rules. It's more the principle of the matter that people were, in fact, running zombie hordes as an army. They are completely invalidated.

Eh, it happens. I ran 12 Windriders as troop choices in 7E, and when the 8E CWE Codex dropped, I had no troops at all. It sucked, but I adapted.

And that was also unacceptable.

So no units should ever be sunset? Should the fundamental rules for an army be EXCLUSIVELY based on its previous iterations?

There's a precedent of GW swinging the nerfhammer too many times at a unit, have you the memory of a goldfish? Windriders have always been a Troop for Eldar, and to remove them from that slot AND nerf stats was ridiculous.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Castozor wrote:
You can always pretend he's just a regular Necromantic DG Lord but with Typhus' rules. That's what I would do anyway since I dislike Typhus' lore too much.

I'd probably just use a LoC with Typhus' rules. It's more the principle of the matter that people were, in fact, running zombie hordes as an army. They are completely invalidated.

Eh, it happens. I ran 12 Windriders as troop choices in 7E, and when the 8E CWE Codex dropped, I had no troops at all. It sucked, but I adapted.

And that was also unacceptable.

So no units should ever be sunset? Should the fundamental rules for an army be EXCLUSIVELY based on its previous iterations?

There's a precedent of GW swinging the nerfhammer too many times at a unit, have you the memory of a goldfish? Windriders have always been a Troop for Eldar, and to remove them from that slot AND nerf stats was ridiculous.

Or I realize that the game can change. Just because a unit existed in a specific slot doesn't mean it cannot be moved.

Can we just ignore slayers' argument? He has repeatedly proven to not know the first thing about Death Guard.

Currently we are arguing the fringe case of someone trying to run a pox walker horde without Typhus or a single Death Guard Infantry unit now losing the ability to field his army.

Or, in other words, someone who was intentionally losing every game they play due to horrible list building is now forced to either play better units or ask his opponent for permission.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Castozor wrote:
You can always pretend he's just a regular Necromantic DG Lord but with Typhus' rules. That's what I would do anyway since I dislike Typhus' lore too much.

I'd probably just use a LoC with Typhus' rules. It's more the principle of the matter that people were, in fact, running zombie hordes as an army. They are completely invalidated.

Eh, it happens. I ran 12 Windriders as troop choices in 7E, and when the 8E CWE Codex dropped, I had no troops at all. It sucked, but I adapted.

And that was also unacceptable.

So no units should ever be sunset? Should the fundamental rules for an army be EXCLUSIVELY based on its previous iterations?

There's a precedent of GW swinging the nerfhammer too many times at a unit, have you the memory of a goldfish? Windriders have always been a Troop for Eldar, and to remove them from that slot AND nerf stats was ridiculous.

That's not even true. Windriders were definitely not previously troops until 6th ed and their saves were also not always a 3+

Let's get back to the Deathguard discussion shall we?

Overall, it feels like there is a good chance that Deathguard are going to be a significant ripple in the meta. The current meta is all about Anti-Marine weapons, and DG really put a wrinkle on that with the -1 Damage. I am very curious to see how this evolves.

I'm very curious to see how they will fare against Harlequins. The Death Guard has access to a good amount of MW and Harlequins are relying heavily on their invulnerable save to work.

 Sasori wrote:
Let's get back to the Deathguard discussion shall we?

Overall, it feels like there is a good chance that Deathguard are going to be a significant ripple in the meta. The current meta is all about Anti-Marine weapons, and DG really put a wrinkle on that with the -1 Damage. I am very curious to see how this evolves.

I agree with this, I mainly play AdMech and this makes robots even more tempting (I have 7 but rarely run them). High volume of fire that's 1d will be great for both marines and DG. I wonder what other units will show up to provide that for other armies.

I have a lazy DG side project and want to get a few termies and Morty to finish it off, this codex looks REALLY fluffy which will encourage me to pla it much more.

Peeps saying poxy armies are invalidated seems hyperbolic--a heavy poxy approach is still at least possible. It does come with a tax now and that sucks, but I can see why GW made the choice they did. Editions change, rules change, things get added and removed. As a player who likes specialized/skew lists I have seen several builds be invalidated in my time. Have to adapt and move on, it is the way of things just as much as it is IRL.

In other news, oooo those stratagems look juicy! And very much digging the crusade rules, random bonuses with some means to affect the outcome I find to be ideal. With free picking it just becomes a matter of optimized choices for whatever speciality one is going for, complete random can be fun but also feels like control and customization is being taken away as much as given. There is a place for random, like chaos boons, so long as the benefits are weighed appropriately against the cost (I have seen previous renditions on both sides of that, we'll see about these). And I always see a small chance of spawndom as very fun and thematic for narrative play, I'm glad for it to get included with Nurgle when it is normally restricted to undivided and Tzeentch. The other gods are still -chaos- gods after all!

Well the really good news here is that apparently Chaos Boon is now for Crusade play so it stops hogging half a page of what could have otherwise been useful stratagems.