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 kirotheavenger wrote:
If they're just producing a model from something that started as essentially concept art, I think that's a little different.
What I mainly intended by that comment was that I didn't believe the Lieutenants were prototypes and therefore minimal effort to put out. As a lot of effort goes into converting them into sprue designs and then boxsets on a store shelf.

I think they were digitally sculpted and printed as prototypes and then those prototypes were made into the various releases we've seen later.

You can REALLY see it in the Indomitus Lt. He's clearly just a Bladeguard Sgt. I think the only Primaris Lt that isn't a named character with a unique loadout is the Phobos Lt.

I'd wager it mostly comes down to a question of how they wanted to do weapon options. Primaris are part of this era of monopose easy build kits and even the multipart kits don't really have much in the way of weapon options. Most of those were patched in later via upgrade sprues.

I get the feeling that the other route considered for Sgt weapons was just to make them unique models packaged alongside the rest of the unit. That's basically what happened with the box set bundles, but instead those sculpts got labeled a Lt and sold as a special character.

 LunarSol wrote:
You can REALLY see it in the Indomitus Lt. He's clearly just a Bladeguard Sgt. I think the only Primaris Lt that isn't a named character with a unique loadout is the Phobos Lt.

I'd wager it mostly comes down to a question of how they wanted to do weapon options. Primaris are part of this era of monopose easy build kits and even the multipart kits don't really have much in the way of weapon options. Most of those were patched in later via upgrade sprues.

I get the feeling that the other route considered for Sgt weapons was just to make them unique models packaged alongside the rest of the unit. That's basically what happened with the box set bundles, but instead those sculpts got labeled a Lt and sold as a special character.

Yeah, he does feel a lot like part of the unit instead of a separate character release.He doesn't really have the hallmarks of a character model in all honesty.

Isn't it a good thing? the optimal squad size is 5 models, so if someone was lucky enough to get his hands on the box, they have the 3 troopers, the Lt and the chapter master who can easily make a cohorent looking 5 man bladeguard unit.

Karol wrote:
Isn't it a good thing? the optimal squad size is 5 models, so if someone was lucky enough to get his hands on the box, they have the 3 troopers, the Lt and the chapter master who can easily make a cohorent looking 5 man bladeguard unit.

It's not really a complaint, just a possible explanation why we keep seeing so many LT models.

 Da Boss wrote:
There is also nothing wrong with having emotions about your hobby or interests.

But GW obviously will not be doing anything to change how they manage releases, and I think expecting them to change is just gonna lead to disappointment.

GW considers Xenos players second class. Once you accept that it is a lot easier to deal with all of this because you never expect them to give you anything and are never disappointed or frustrated.

But GW doesn't go out and say this. So you're arguing their business model rests on being able to deceive their customer base about it?

Well, they are very good at the deveiving part. I started in 8th and it took me around 2 and a half year to notice that GW doesn't want fix rules or bring balance. Assuming I am half as inteligent as an avarge person, this means a noob my age will get it in a few months to a year. Which oddly is around how long people around here play w40k. Something I notice, when I was writing this sentence.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Karol wrote:
Isn't it a good thing? the optimal squad size is 5 models, so if someone was lucky enough to get his hands on the box, they have the 3 troopers, the Lt and the chapter master who can easily make a cohorent looking 5 man bladeguard unit.

It's not really a complaint, just a possible explanation why we keep seeing so many LT models.

Yeah, its a matter of getting back a bit of the kitbash mentality. I come from other games, so it took me a bit to "find" a jump pack captain before someone explained I just pick a model to make into a captain. The same is basically true of the HQs we've seen released, but takes a bit of getting used to again.

Karol wrote:
Well, they are very good at the deveiving part. I started in 8th and it took me around 2 and a half year to notice that GW doesn't want fix rules or bring balance. Assuming I am half as inteligent as an avarge person, this means a noob my age will get it in a few months to a year. Which oddly is around how long people around here play w40k. Something I notice, when I was writing this sentence.

I'd disagree a bit there. They do have an interest, but the fixes are to make the game more like how they think it should be played, and not how the internet thinks it should.

That isn't say that GW doesn't screw up, but they are definitely making more efforts to fix the game over 8th and 9th than they ever did in the past.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Karol wrote:
Well, they are very good at the deveiving part. I started in 8th and it took me around 2 and a half year to notice that GW doesn't want fix rules or bring balance. Assuming I am half as inteligent as an avarge person, this means a noob my age will get it in a few months to a year. Which oddly is around how long people around here play w40k. Something I notice, when I was writing this sentence.

I'd disagree a bit there. They do have an interest, but the fixes are to make the game more like how they think it should be played, and not how the internet thinks it should.

That isn't say that GW doesn't screw up, but they are definitely making more efforts to fix the game over 8th and 9th than they ever did in the past.

How they think the game should be played isn't "balanced," though.

Karol wrote:
Well, they are very good at the deveiving part. I started in 8th and it took me around 2 and a half year to notice that GW doesn't want fix rules or bring balance. Assuming I am half as inteligent as an avarge person, this means a noob my age will get it in a few months to a year. Which oddly is around how long people around here play w40k. Something I notice, when I was writing this sentence.

They have a great sci-fi universe that isn't "overplayed" by other forms of media. Unfortunately, GW knows this and uses it to their advantage, big time.

They are running a bait and switch operation. They release a bunch of models with points costs that make them OP. A few months later, nerf those models back to reality or to oblivion. Next edition, maybe that model doesn't even have rules anymore. GW doesn't care, you already bought the models. The models you bought may be worthless now, but it's ok, they have some new models that are cheap points wise with OP rules (but expensive in real money) you can buy to replace those. Get in as many games as you can with the OP units because in 6 months they'll probably be crap.

I picked up a lot of Tyranid models when 8th started. My army was fun to play at first, then the nerfs came in, changing unit values dramatically and what units you could actually play (example, the rule of 3 being introduced later in 8th). I have never had worse buyers remorse than buying Tyranids for 40k. What a colossal waste of money that was, given GW decides to barely support the faction with a few releases in comparison to what the Space Marines have gotten.

GW's sales tactics may be that they want you to play multiple armies but the way they go about trying to get you there are some of the worst sales tactics I've seen. They are just a terrible company that really doesn't care about their customers. I don't know how they have gotten away with it for so long, but I guess kudos to them for pulling it off. If you can screw your customers over and they just come back and buy more, why would you ever stop?

Hecaton wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
There is also nothing wrong with having emotions about your hobby or interests.

But GW obviously will not be doing anything to change how they manage releases, and I think expecting them to change is just gonna lead to disappointment.

GW considers Xenos players second class. Once you accept that it is a lot easier to deal with all of this because you never expect them to give you anything and are never disappointed or frustrated.

But GW doesn't go out and say this. So you're arguing their business model rests on being able to deceive their customer base about it?

Oh absolutely. They are selling the fantasy to Marine players that they are going to get to smack the crap out of various cool looking aliens, when in reality the game mostly consists of background inaccurate marine on marine battles.

But it is useful to have the odd Xenos player around to promote the fantasy, and sometimes someone on the design team gets excited about it so they let them do something. So they will update the ranges for those armies every so often, maybe every 6-20 years, and that works to keep Xenos players in the game in enough numbers to sustain the Marine players fantasies. In between they just sell as much stuff as possible to Marine players as their bread and butter.

I think they were trying to build the same model in AoS but I am not sure it really worked? They certainly gave Stormcast the majority of the attention but it is not as bad as in 40K. Pretty sad, one of the cool things about WFB was that it was more balanced in that sense.

Hecaton wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Karol wrote:
Well, they are very good at the deveiving part. I started in 8th and it took me around 2 and a half year to notice that GW doesn't want fix rules or bring balance. Assuming I am half as inteligent as an avarge person, this means a noob my age will get it in a few months to a year. Which oddly is around how long people around here play w40k. Something I notice, when I was writing this sentence.

I'd disagree a bit there. They do have an interest, but the fixes are to make the game more like how they think it should be played, and not how the internet thinks it should.

That isn't say that GW doesn't screw up, but they are definitely making more efforts to fix the game over 8th and 9th than they ever did in the past.

How they think the game should be played isn't "balanced," though.

They have tried to address balance (0" charges for example) but let's be honest, their first priority has always has, and probably will remain, trying to dial in a thematic game system that lets you do cool stuff on the board.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

I'd disagree a bit there. They do have an interest, but the fixes are to make the game more like how they think it should be played, and not how the internet thinks it should.

That isn't say that GW doesn't screw up, but they are definitely making more efforts to fix the game over 8th and 9th than they ever did in the past.

And am not kidding about the decived part, when they wrote the first CA and promised paladins, purifires, to be used again and GK to be made good. I really thought they ment it. I actualy was upset when I saw the changes, and I mean like really upset. Had to double the medicin for 2 weeks to just keep calm.

But I ain't saying that at 13 you are as smart as at 40 with 20+years expiriance in the hobby. I am sure GW does some sort of stuff to older players too, but regarding new young players their policies are just predatory as companies that make mobile games. Sometimes even more, I don't even think that EA would make people pay for a patch download.

Karol wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

I'd disagree a bit there. They do have an interest, but the fixes are to make the game more like how they think it should be played, and not how the internet thinks it should.

That isn't say that GW doesn't screw up, but they are definitely making more efforts to fix the game over 8th and 9th than they ever did in the past.

And am not kidding about the decived part, when they wrote the first CA and promised paladins, purifires, to be used again and GK to be made good. I really thought they ment it. I actualy was upset when I saw the changes, and I mean like really upset. Had to double the medicin for 2 weeks to just keep calm.

But I ain't saying that at 13 you are as smart as at 40 with 20+years expiriance in the hobby. I am sure GW does some sort of stuff to older players too, but regarding new young players their policies are just predatory as companies that make mobile games. Sometimes even more, I don't even think that EA would make people pay for a patch download.

Karol, you also play in one of the most toxic player locations ever. For most players the baby seal clubbers aren't so bad.

I went through being really upset when Orks waited such a long time between the 3e and end of 4e codices.

I complained about it all the time here and on Warseer.

Over time I realised that it was always gonna be like this and now I am a lot more chilled out about it. Though to be fair, I am not really trying to play games any more, because I don't expect them to be fun.

 dotcomee wrote:
I picked up a lot of Tyranid models when 8th started. My army was fun to play at first, then the nerfs came in, changing unit values dramatically and what units you could actually play (example, the rule of 3 being introduced later in 8th). I have never had worse buyers remorse than buying Tyranids for 40k. What a colossal waste of money that was, given GW decides to barely support the faction with a few releases in comparison to what the Space Marines have gotten.

I think it's less that the Tyranids hit with the force of a warm marshmallow, but that they're a boring army to play. Stuff like Instinctive Behaviour being a positive hindrance, and having the HQs buff only one Type of unit each, breathtakingly dull psychic powers, and models that are frustrating to play with because they seem designed for a Tyranid-themed Barrel of Monkeys game than a tabletop wargame. The annoying thing is that GW has shown interesting ways to play Tyranids from the wargame Doom of the Eldar to the 2nd edition Tyranid Attack scenario to the various incarnations of Without Number. Representing a horde and the effects of a horde as simply a lot of models on the board at the beginning of the game (and then radically less) is not only boring but kind of frustrating. Why bring all those models if you're not going to get to play with them?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Karol wrote:
Well, they are very good at the deveiving part. I started in 8th and it took me around 2 and a half year to notice that GW doesn't want fix rules or bring balance. Assuming I am half as inteligent as an avarge person, this means a noob my age will get it in a few months to a year. Which oddly is around how long people around here play w40k. Something I notice, when I was writing this sentence.

I'd disagree a bit there. They do have an interest, but the fixes are to make the game more like how they think it should be played, and not how the internet thinks it should.

That isn't say that GW doesn't screw up, but they are definitely making more efforts to fix the game over 8th and 9th than they ever did in the past.

How they think the game should be played isn't "balanced," though.

They have tried to address balance (0" charges for example) but let's be honest, their first priority has always has, and probably will remain, trying to dial in a thematic game system that lets you do cool stuff on the board.

Well the game doesn't allow that to begin with thanks to the core rules being a mess, like with the outdated IGOUGO system and overall useless morale/LD mechanics. So what exactly IS their actual priority?

Nurglitch wrote:
Why bring all those models if you're not going to get to play with them?

Honestly? It looks awesome at deployment and that's like.... one of the most enthralling parts of the game. The bigger issue is just that overwhelming numbers is a really hard mechanic to balance effectively. It can all too often become a binary set of dice rolls.

 LunarSol wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
Why bring all those models if you're not going to get to play with them?

Honestly? It looks awesome at deployment and that's like.... one of the most enthralling parts of the game. The bigger issue is just that overwhelming numbers is a really hard mechanic to balance effectively. It can all too often become a binary set of dice rolls.

Maybe. I think recycling dead units onto the board is a great idea, personally. Particularly if there's a limit to how they can be returned to the board, so players have to sacrifice time and/or position to maintain material. In Doom of the Eldar there's a timer by that eventually runs out on the Tyranid fleet, and it's a matter for the Eldar to survive until that timer runs out. In 7th edition with returning grunts like Termagants and Gargoyles to the table on a 4+ there was a similar feeling of whether that last SM on the board would surviving the successive waves. I mean, tower defence isn't exactly a black box at this point.

 dotcomee wrote:

I picked up a lot of Tyranid models when 8th started. My army was fun to play at first, then the nerfs came in, changing unit values dramatically and what units you could actually play (example, the rule of 3 being introduced later in 8th). I have never had worse buyers remorse than buying Tyranids for 40k. What a colossal waste of money that was, given GW decides to barely support the faction with a few releases in comparison to what the Space Marines have gotten.

Ok, here's the thing. Those Tyranids you bought into? That's a mature product line. And it was mature years before you came along.
All that stuff Marines have gotten? The Primaris? Even though it's branded as "Space Marines" it's really just GW launching a completely new product line. The difference is that instead of dropping 70%-80%+ of the (eventual) options into the game upon launch & adding more later, like they would with any other new faction (ex: SoB), they've strung it out over several years.
Don't believe me?
Go count your Tyranid kits (just the GW, skip the FW for now). You've got 23* kits that make 33 units, covering every type of battlefield role. 25 kits counting Start Collecting & Enemy Below wich are just combo boxes of some of the 23 kits)
Now go count the Primaris. Don't forget to count the stuff from box sets that has yet to be released solo & the coming Speeder. Only count kits that make multiple units once. Ignoring the presence of excess Lts, don't those #s look pretty comparable?
The difference is that the Tyranids had all these options years ago, before the Primaris project started. The Primaris are just catching up product wise.

Now could the Tyranids use a few things like new plastic sculpts of stuff still in metal/finecrap? Sure. Better rules? Sure. And maybe there's still a few things left design wise that could be added. But as is the Tyranids aren't hurting for options kit wise. They aren't un-supported.

 dotcomee wrote:
GW's sales tactics may be that they want you to play multiple armies but the way they go about trying to get you there are some of the worst sales tactics I've seen. They are just a terrible company that really doesn't care about their customers. I don't know how they have gotten away with it for so long, but I guess kudos to them for pulling it off. If you can screw your customers over and they just come back and buy more, why would you ever stop?

You know what's always worked to get me to invest in a new army? Cool models.
After that comes a desire to vary my playstyle.
Now & then it's a specific project.
That having multiple armies insulates me from getting completely screwed over rules wise edition to edition, FAQ to FAQ is just a bonus.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Karol wrote:
Well, they are very good at the deveiving part. I started in 8th and it took me around 2 and a half year to notice that GW doesn't want fix rules or bring balance. Assuming I am half as inteligent as an avarge person, this means a noob my age will get it in a few months to a year. Which oddly is around how long people around here play w40k. Something I notice, when I was writing this sentence.

I'd disagree a bit there. They do have an interest, but the fixes are to make the game more like how they think it should be played, and not how the internet thinks it should.

That isn't say that GW doesn't screw up, but they are definitely making more efforts to fix the game over 8th and 9th than they ever did in the past.

How they think the game should be played isn't "balanced," though.

They have tried to address balance (0" charges for example) but let's be honest, their first priority has always has, and probably will remain, trying to dial in a thematic game system that lets you do cool stuff on the board.

Well the game doesn't allow that to begin with thanks to the core rules being a mess, like with the outdated IGOUGO system and overall useless morale/LD mechanics. So what exactly IS their actual priority?

I disagree, but that's a difference of opinions about the effectiveness of the ruleset. I've had plenty of very fun games with the system, and it looks like they are putting some effort into fixing Ld (DG losing fearless in exchange for the same ATSKNF effect Loyalists Marines have). I'm not arguing it's perfect, just that it can be fun.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

I disagree, but that's a difference of opinions about the effectiveness of the ruleset. I've had plenty of very fun games with the system, and it looks like they are putting some effort into fixing Ld (DG losing fearless in exchange for the same ATSKNF effect Loyalists Marines have). I'm not arguing it's perfect, just that it can be fun.

The game is fun enough true, but were did you get the idea DG were fearless? Only poxwalkers ignore morale currently, so really what this new rule does is trivialize morale for YET another army.

You know, for all the downing of some GW choices in this thread, it's actually a pretty respectable treatment everyone is giving each other, must be Christmas.

Nurglitch wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
Why bring all those models if you're not going to get to play with them?

Honestly? It looks awesome at deployment and that's like.... one of the most enthralling parts of the game. The bigger issue is just that overwhelming numbers is a really hard mechanic to balance effectively. It can all too often become a binary set of dice rolls.

Maybe. I think recycling dead units onto the board is a great idea, personally. Particularly if there's a limit to how they can be returned to the board, so players have to sacrifice time and/or position to maintain material. In Doom of the Eldar there's a timer by that eventually runs out on the Tyranid fleet, and it's a matter for the Eldar to survive until that timer runs out. In 7th edition with returning grunts like Termagants and Gargoyles to the table on a 4+ there was a similar feeling of whether that last SM on the board would surviving the successive waves. I mean, tower defence isn't exactly a black box at this point.

It's often hard to get players to differentiate between "spawn more" mechanics and resurrection mechanics when they use the same function. The hard cap of being unable to spawn more while things haven't died always feels a little.... odd. I do think a mechanic involving placing spawn points that units come out of could be really interesting. I definitely think there's ways to do it, but ultimately there's still a desire for an unnecessary number of models to create the "flood" effect.

ccs wrote:

 dotcomee wrote:

I picked up a lot of Tyranid models when 8th started. My army was fun to play at first, then the nerfs came in, changing unit values dramatically and what units you could actually play (example, the rule of 3 being introduced later in 8th). I have never had worse buyers remorse than buying Tyranids for 40k. What a colossal waste of money that was, given GW decides to barely support the faction with a few releases in comparison to what the Space Marines have gotten.

Ok, here's the thing. Those Tyranids you bought into? That's a mature product line. And it was mature years before you came along.
All that stuff Marines have gotten? The Primaris? Even though it's branded as "Space Marines" it's really just GW launching a completely new product line. The difference is that instead of dropping 70%-80%+ of the (eventual) options into the game upon launch & adding more later, like they would with any other new faction (ex: SoB), they've strung it out over several years.
Don't believe me?
Go count your Tyranid kits (just the GW, skip the FW for now). You've got 23* kits that make 33 units, covering every type of battlefield role. 25 kits counting Start Collecting & Enemy Below wich are just combo boxes of some of the 23 kits)
Now go count the Primaris. Don't forget to count the stuff from box sets that has yet to be released solo & the coming Speeder. Only count kits that make multiple units once. Ignoring the presence of excess Lts, don't those #s look pretty comparable?
The difference is that the Tyranids had all these options years ago, before the Primaris project started. The Primaris are just catching up product wise.

Now could the Tyranids use a few things like new plastic sculpts of stuff still in metal/finecrap? Sure. Better rules? Sure. And maybe there's still a few things left design wise that could be added. But as is the Tyranids aren't hurting for options kit wise. They aren't un-supported.

 dotcomee wrote:
GW's sales tactics may be that they want you to play multiple armies but the way they go about trying to get you there are some of the worst sales tactics I've seen. They are just a terrible company that really doesn't care about their customers. I don't know how they have gotten away with it for so long, but I guess kudos to them for pulling it off. If you can screw your customers over and they just come back and buy more, why would you ever stop?

You know what's always worked to get me to invest in a new army? Cool models.
After that comes a desire to vary my playstyle.
Now & then it's a specific project.
That having multiple armies insulates me from getting completely screwed over rules wise edition to edition, FAQ to FAQ is just a bonus.

There is a lot of mentyal gymnastics going on here. With the logic given the Marines were already a " mature product line " They had no need to get primaris from the very start. Many of the kits weren't even old and recently re tooled themselves. There was no need at all for primaris other than selling marine players a whole new army of their same stuff that ate too much McDonalds and took away tracks for floating around. They didn't have to do any of this, they chose to do it and further ignore so many factions at the cost of more marines. Marines had one of the most mature lines out there as far as boxes and kits for everything they could do. Until more and more and more needed to be made.

As well the very fact they are stretching this release year on year on year is a sign.it may never stop but it would be nice if it did so people could, you know, maybe go a few months without a marine release, news of a new marine release or no rules updates for marines. There are other factions in the game after all and some of them are under served and there is no reason for it other than, more marines.

ccs wrote:


Ok, here's the thing. Those Tyranids you bought into? That's a mature product line. And it was mature years before you came along.
All that stuff Marines have gotten? The Primaris? Even though it's branded as "Space Marines" it's really just GW launching a completely new product line. The difference is that instead of dropping 70%-80%+ of the (eventual) options into the game upon launch & adding more later, like they would with any other new faction (ex: SoB), they've strung it out over several years.
Don't believe me?
Go count your Tyranid kits (just the GW, skip the FW for now). You've got 23* kits that make 33 units, covering every type of battlefield role. 25 kits counting Start Collecting & Enemy Below wich are just combo boxes of some of the 23 kits)
Now go count the Primaris. Don't forget to count the stuff from box sets that has yet to be released solo & the coming Speeder. Only count kits that make multiple units once. Ignoring the presence of excess Lts, don't those #s look pretty comparable?
The difference is that the Tyranids had all these options years ago, before the Primaris project started. The Primaris are just catching up product wise.

Now could the Tyranids use a few things like new plastic sculpts of stuff still in metal/finecrap? Sure. Better rules? Sure. And maybe there's still a few things left design wise that could be added. But as is the Tyranids aren't hurting for options kit wise. They aren't un-supported.

I can go one step further with Tyranids with the return of Genestealer Cults. That opens up a whole new dimension of play options that wasn't really available to the 'nids for a long time. Even more if you shift from Tyranids being the core to GSC which also opens up IG. And before someone goes as says that maybe they don't want to add GSC to their Tyranids, I think it is just as fair to say that many original gansta players don't want to add Primaris to their collection either. And on the curve of usual model releases for space marines, they have had a pretty long dry spell of nothing. Pretty much for the same reason of ccs said for 'nids; they're pretty much complete. Some of the latter marine stuff was already trying to wedge itself in filled niches.

I like Primaris space marines. I wouldn't have started a loyal space marine army if they didn't exist. Straight up, not even true scale marines. My Chaos space marines already filled that area. Especially since I stuck pretty close to the dark mirror version of a lot of things. I am super glad that Loyalist and Traitor marines are really diverging from each other. My Primaris and Black Legion army really aren't that alike and share absolutely no same but spikey units. Sure, they're both marines which means they ain't that different from each as they are from my GSC army. However, I came from historical miniatures games, and let me tell you, Loyal and Traitor are far more different from each other than any historical game I ever played.

***

I want other players to have insane release schedules like my favorites (literally all my 40k/AoS armies have had bumper crops of model kits). Hell, I want some of the more needling 'what about Xenos?' crowd to be cursed by it so much that they can't keep up. A fire hose of model releases. So they can be the ones with an ever-growing backlog of painting that even finishing 7-8 models a week barely keeps up. I want all my collected factions to cool off for a while, so I can finish painting an army or two, put them on a shelf, wait this pandemic out and smirk satisfactory that I have a couple of fully painted GW armies. I hope that the AoS Slaanesh release has as much as it looks like it does, and that is portent to other factions especially in 40k.

Imagine thinking adding GSC to the game is similar to the absolute ridiculous amount of primaris releases. GSC are their own army who happen to be able to ally with Tyranids just like Imperial and Chaos factions can with their books. Primaris were nothing more than adding bloat to what was already the most bloated faction in the game.

It's very noble when people wish other factions got love just so they can stop buying every new release. Oh, the tragedy, how can one live with such an embarrassment of riches ?

Would be nice if the marines chilled out just so other armies could see even one new kit, or filling in lost choices as I doubt we'll see most other forces see even a fraction of these new kits next year or the year after but the marine tide will roll on.

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
It's very noble when people wish other factions got love just so they can stop buying every new release. Oh, the tragedy, how can one live with such an embarrassment of riches ?

Would be nice if the marines chilled out just so other armies could see even one new kit, or filling in lost choices as I doubt we'll see most other forces see even a fraction of these new kits next year or the year after but the marine tide will roll on.

It hasn't been anywhere close to every new release. I have been diggin' the Lumineth, new Slaves to Darkness (which includes much of the Warcry stuff), Kill Team (which had me get lots of factions Troop choices) and Genestealer Cults. It hasn't just been Primaris, it's been a lot of what GW has been laying down. It it was just Primaris, I'd already be bored as they are super quick and easy to paint.

There's lots and lots of factions, hell lots of active games, that GW has in their portfolio. Even with an increased release schedule if a person is a fan of but just a single one for a single game that has a fair coverage of models (even if they are old, not plastic, etc.), it is going to be rare they're going to see new stuff. They're basically hoping that GW throws a dart at their favorite thing and has the inspiration to come up with something for it. I'm not saying you have to sunk cost, just that there is a lot more brands in the fire than Primaris and most probably take a lot more effort and risk for GW.

That's why I also don't see it as equivalent that space marine releases are really affecting any other faction's model releases. Not to the same level as say a new Blood Bowl team, Necromunda gang or some basically one-off like Kill Team: Rogue Trader or Blackstone Fortress. Clearly GW has been prioritizing creating areas of revenue rather than re-tread existing material. The exception being marines and Chaos Warriors. Which honestly does surprise me a little. I am not saying get rid of those other things. Just that they are also there even if it seems most 40k seem oblivious to them.

Even a poll of DakkaDakka demonstrated that plastic updates wouldn't necessarily get veteran players to update their armies. I don't think it is too much of a leap to think that GW also believes that refreshes might not bring in that many new players compared to something completely new. There may be something about the gravity of 40k that GW believes that they can rest on their laurels with factions that are already functional. They seem to be showing the same thing with many of the older factions in AoS too. With the large exception being their poster faction (and strangely Chaos) they want to quickly prop up as the hip, new thing (well, as much as space marines can be anyways). I also think there is something to the gravity of 40k that prevents it from being anywhere close to as daring as AoS which appears to allow far more creative freedom.

I feel less like Primaris are consuming all the new model kit resources, and more that GW has less of an idea what they want to do with older factions. I have a hard time believing that a refresh of all Aspect Warriors wouldn't make more net profit than the equivalent of say Blackstone Fortress, Kill Team: Rogue Trader or even the Warcry cultists. Yet, those exist and new plastic space elf kits don't. Plenty of fantasy aelf ones though...

It is hard to me to feel an over saturation, as the OP states anyway, as I am not overly invested in any one game or faction. The over saturation for me is that I have been liking a good portion of what GW has put out. Including a number of things I didn't think I would. If things become unbearable, I remember this is my hobby, not my job. I am free to walk away at anytime and also come back at any time. I am not going to worry when the next time the GSC or Lumineth get a new unit. I just enjoy what I have, and if I want more see what there is that does excite. Seems far better than sneering and jeering at what I don't like.