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Overread wrote: Likely because Corvus Beli still trades with physical rules and lore in the same volume, both in their core rules and in expansions to their rules. They are doing the very same thing GW does; only they keep to fewer publications.
Yes they have their online Army builder and such, but they also still have all the print media as well.
Remember your casual fan and your new fan don't "need" the most up to date perfect rules. Having something physical in hand to reference is often far better for them and easier to work with. Heck I find online rules and details great to double check, but a pain to actually sit down, read and digest information from. I can do it (on a PC with a big screen); but its not my favourite compared to print media. Sure print gets out of date, but by and large the updates are tiny - a few points change; a few stats change - most updates to even GW's stuff don't come up to more than a single page of A4 (more for the core) and the bulk is often just clarification of terms/interactions (ergo FAQ) .
Right. So, what's wrong with that model- offer rules for free online, in addition to printed hardcopy for people who want something more tangible?
Overread wrote: As I said I appreciate that experienced people don't get as much value from the lore in things like Codex where many times its often repeated summaries. Thing is the book remains a catch-all for newbies and pros and if GW started selling rules only versions the risk would be newbie and pros would gravitate toward them (Because they'd be shorter and therefore cheaper) which would fast result in reduced influence of lore on newbies. Again remember surprisingly few actually read BL books - heck some don't even really know about them.
I don't follow the logic that the books have to be expensive because they have to include lore, even if new and experienced players alike might prefer a cheaper version without that lore.
Lots of people play the game without caring much about the lore- I don't see that as a problem. I mean, it's not like Bolt Action comes bundled with a copy of one of Anthony Beevor's textbooks (for the low-low price of $79.95) to ensure that you develop a proper appreciation for the history of WW2 while playing the game. And at least that's something that actually happened, rather than fiction largely created to sell models. Why is 'influence of lore on newbies' something we should be concerned with?
If the lore itself isn't interesting enough or presented well enough for players to seek it on their own- and with BL books hitting bestseller's lists, I question whether that's really an issue- then that sounds like more of a value problem with the lore writing itself. I don't think forcing players to buy it as part of the cost of admission is a reasonable approach.
AngryAngel80 wrote: Ok I just have to say, someone listed heavy intercessors as decent, how can they be anything quite yet they aren't even released yet ?
You can math hammer things all you like but ~
Well, we've got the stats.
We've got opponents.
We're playing games.
And we've got plenty of spare models & bitz to use as proxies or for kitbashing....
We can tell how the real models will work via real games.
The unit won't magically work any different with official models....
Or maybe everyone just already knows how assorted str.5 xshot Bolt weapons on a marine chassis works....
Ok let me check with the tournament results...oh wait..wouldn't be any for them yet..so yet again, pardon my skepticism but until they get actual time on the higher end tables vs high end opponents a bunch of hearsay means little to me. Unless if I proxy them and they ruled I can be like " Guys, these new chonky marine boys, they are the truth. " Seriously, lets stop being so silly. A handful of " expert " experience doesn't truth make and I have played this game long enough to be as grizzled as the next vet. They need actual time, on actual tables in a larger way than just " Some people played some games and were like..meh. ".
Ok, I stand corrected. NOT everyone knows how assorted str.5 xshot Bolt weapons on a marine chassis works....
But I have a serious question for you on this.
Since even you, a grizzled vet, can't know how the unit will work until high end opponents, on high end tourney tables, use the official models.... How do you suppose those high end players evaluate wether or not & then how to use them?
I don't follow the logic that the books have to be expensive because they have to include lore, even if new and experienced players alike might prefer a cheaper version without that lore.
Lots of people play the game without caring much about the lore- I don't see that as a problem. I mean, it's not like Bolt Action comes bundled with a copy of one of Anthony Beevor's textbooks (for the low-low price of $79.95) to ensure that you develop a proper appreciation for the history of WW2 while playing the game. And at least that's something that actually happened, rather than fiction largely created to sell models. Why is 'influence of lore on newbies' something we should be concerned with?
If the lore itself isn't interesting enough or presented well enough for players to seek it on their own- and with BL books hitting bestseller's lists, I question whether that's really an issue- then that sounds like more of a value problem with the lore writing itself. I don't think forcing players to buy it as part of the cost of admission is a reasonable approach.
Consider that we typically have only 1 really active thread on BL books upcoming and even within that thread it rarely gets highly active and it easily falls behind other threads. We do get some lore chatter, but we don't get extensive threads talking about the latest books. At least nothing in comparison to models and rules and such sides of things. Clearly whilst some BL series do make the Best Sellers list that is a different market to the actual model buying community reading them - same as Warhammer TW hits the best sellers but it doesn't mean everyone who wargames has played it.
As for WWII that's a poor example because WWII is taught in most schools; appears in a vast array of computer games, movies, tv series, history documentaries; etc.... It's basically real world stuff that gets referenced all the time. You don't need to present the lore because its right there, the vast majority of people who show interest in things like Bolt Action are likely coming to it specifically because of the "lore" that surrounds the themes of WWII.
Fantasy games instead don't get anything like that so they have to do it themselves.
I also never said that lore and rule books had to be expensive, just that if you take a book (codex) and remove a portion of content and separate it out then one would assume it would cost less (ergo the codex isn't costing more, the rules only version is just costing less).
Again my point is that the integration of rules and lore is a very sensible thing. GW also integrates the painting of models into all that too as a core part of the hobby and business - codex have short paint guides, lots of model photos etc.... That's all designed to encourage painting - heck the 9th ed rules even add 10 points for painting your army. GW knows if they don't push it like that they can easily end up with a DnD style market that is happy to play with grey (which for GW means less impressive free marketing of their game to new customers AND less paint sales)
GW isn't Privateer press. Also, what is this nonsense that nobody read BL? Every special edition is sold out. Collector runs are massively successful. Also.... If you made a definitive lore book for each faction it would be good for years and years.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/14 02:30:48
The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed.
Voss wrote:Privateer Press tried this. Their book sales crashed out.
Overread wrote:And as noted PP tried this pure rules; pure online; fast changing and updating and digital method with a game that was very competitive based - and its not worked well at all. Suffice to say trying to treat a physical wargame like a digital game just doesn't work .
Any particular reason you guys are citing Privateer Press and not Corvus Belli? Infinity's rules are available in print or for free online and they seem to be doing fine.
Experience? When I played WM/H, players in the stores I played in would snatch up the books. When they switched models away from crunch+fluff, the books stopped selling.
I don't have much experience with Infinity by comparison. I knew one store that sold it, and the one copy of the rulebook they had just sat there. When people came in to play (in that store, still never saw it in others), players didn't have books. And this was a 4-5 years ago back. None of the three stores near me currently carry it at all.
I definitely think that if GW offered rules for free, they'd stop selling as many books.
A lot of people aren't that bothered about the extensive history of their faction. And I personally don't really read the lore anymore - I've read it in the last 3 codexes I've bought.
That's why GW don't separate rules and fluff, that's why they won't offer free rules - they want to force players to buy books, and they want to bump up the premium by adding in lore.
They used to sell the mini rulebooks from the starter set separately, but they stopped doing this entirely because people bought them instead of the massive brick that is the full rulebook.
They don't need to do this, and it'd be better for players if they didn't. But it makes them a lot of money so they'll continue to do so.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/14 08:33:32
kirotheavenger wrote: I definitely think that if GW offered rules for free, they'd stop selling as many books.
A lot of people aren't that bothered about the extensive history of their faction. And I personally don't really read the lore anymore - I've read it in the last 3 codexes I've bought.
That's why GW don't separate rules and fluff, that's why they won't offer free rules - they want to force players to buy books, and they want to bump up the premium by adding in lore.
They used to sell the mini rulebooks from the starter set separately, but they stopped doing this entirely because people bought them instead of the massive brick that is the full rulebook.
They don't need to do this, and it'd be better for players if they didn't. But it makes them a lot of money so they'll continue to do so.
The mini rulebooks were never available in the launch year, I seem to recall the usually were a couple of years into an edition. A lot of people who bought the smaller format already had the full size version and wanted a more portable copy. So it is possible to sell the rules to someone twice, which the community was generally happy about at the time.
kirotheavenger wrote: I definitely think that if GW offered rules for free, they'd stop selling as many books.
A lot of people aren't that bothered about the extensive history of their faction. And I personally don't really read the lore anymore - I've read it in the last 3 codexes I've bought.
That's why GW don't separate rules and fluff, that's why they won't offer free rules - they want to force players to buy books, and they want to bump up the premium by adding in lore.
They used to sell the mini rulebooks from the starter set separately, but they stopped doing this entirely because people bought them instead of the massive brick that is the full rulebook.
They don't need to do this, and it'd be better for players if they didn't. But it makes them a lot of money so they'll continue to do so.
The mini rulebooks were never available in the launch year, I seem to recall the usually were a couple of years into an edition. A lot of people who bought the smaller format already had the full size version and wanted a more portable copy. So it is possible to sell the rules to someone twice, which the community was generally happy about at the time.
Although true, the small rulebooks were available in starter sets from the beginning, and many people (including myself) took to Ebay to buy the books second hand, or just held out for a year until the small books became available, mooching off friends instead (again, including myself).
That's why I think the starter sets now have full rulebooks.
Hollow wrote: GW isn't Privateer press. Also, what is this nonsense that nobody read BL? Every special edition is sold out. Collector runs are massively successful. Also.... If you made a definitive lore book for each faction it would be good for years and years.
I never said "no one". The point isn't that no one reads them, its that not a large portion of people read them.
Consider that GW's limited editions tend to have something like 1000 copies globally (the numbers vary here and there but that seems to be around where they cite the numbers when they do). Yes that's a big number, but spread over a global market that's a very small number.
I agree a definitive lore book would be fantastic, but at the same time if you had the choice of a £40 lore book or a box of models many people getting into the hobby will go for the box of models. Or paints, or brushes or other things. They'd focus on the game side of the game because the game is what they specifically came for.
Heck look at most GW store shelves, they have rack after rack of games, but the BL books might be only a few shelves, perhaps a whole rack at a major store. By and large they hold far far far less store display. If they were selling like crazy to customers they'd command far more shelf space and inventory of stock.
Hollow wrote: GW isn't Privateer press. Also, what is this nonsense that nobody read BL? Every special edition is sold out. Collector runs are massively successful. Also.... If you made a definitive lore book for each faction it would be good for years and years.
I never said "no one". The point isn't that no one reads them, its that not a large portion of people read them.
Consider that GW's limited editions tend to have something like 1000 copies globally (the numbers vary here and there but that seems to be around where they cite the numbers when they do). Yes that's a big number, but spread over a global market that's a very small number.
I agree a definitive lore book would be fantastic, but at the same time if you had the choice of a £40 lore book or a box of models many people getting into the hobby will go for the box of models. Or paints, or brushes or other things. They'd focus on the game side of the game because the game is what they specifically came for.
Heck look at most GW store shelves, they have rack after rack of games, but the BL books might be only a few shelves, perhaps a whole rack at a major store. By and large they hold far far far less store display. If they were selling like crazy to customers they'd command far more shelf space and inventory of stock.
Do we have any facts or figures about how many black library books are sold, hobby participation, players reading them vs none hobbyists reading them etc?
So as a conclusion the playerbase isn't 75% marines, marine saturation is simply GW's release schedule and that in essence if you ignore all GW's marketing and sales cycle, there isn't as much of a problem on a game to game basis? Obviously beyond the fact there are more marine players than any other faction, just not as disproportionately as expected based on releases.
There clearly is a bias towards people switching to marines because their primary army has no support and stopped being fun to play, with another group of people is switching to marines because the army they would like to play in competitive games simply doesn't do as well as marines.
I know that there has been a decent exodus of people locally into Marines due to the support and the strength of the recent Space Marine books. The current support GW is providing Marines is tilting the playerbase into a single faction in many ways.
Yep. Once again, when play petered out locally, the last couple of weeks where people tried to set up in-person games was just 2-3 people going
"hey, looking to bring my Blood Angels, played against marines the last few weeks so like to have a different opponent this time..."
"Got my salamanders, any non-marine players want to get a game in?"
"Have my ultramarines, would really like to purge some xenos!"
...and then nobody ended up having a game set up. Obviously, the major reason for the petering out was covid, but this isn't the first, or the second, or the third time I've seen nobody end up playing games in a given week because everyone is just playing marines, everyone is sick of marines, but nobody is willing to be the ones to willingly get steamrolled by playing something other than marines. It's almost like this has been going basically non-stop since Codex 2.0 what, a year and a half ago?
Hah hah ! They all want to be heroes. I am pretty sure I can beat many marine armies with my nids thanks to my FW new toys, but they would have to not bring too many eradicators. Or I get eradicated and it's fine, because I really don't mind losing. Perhaps by asking marine players to "not bring too much of X or Y" then the steamrolling of non marine factions would stop ? And peace be restored, and wargaming be resumed !
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
"Hey, SM player, don't bring too many space marines."
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Hollow wrote: GW isn't Privateer press. Also, what is this nonsense that nobody read BL? Every special edition is sold out. Collector runs are massively successful. Also.... If you made a definitive lore book for each faction it would be good for years and years.
I never said "no one". The point isn't that no one reads them, its that not a large portion of people read them.
Consider that GW's limited editions tend to have something like 1000 copies globally (the numbers vary here and there but that seems to be around where they cite the numbers when they do). Yes that's a big number, but spread over a global market that's a very small number.
I agree a definitive lore book would be fantastic, but at the same time if you had the choice of a £40 lore book or a box of models many people getting into the hobby will go for the box of models. Or paints, or brushes or other things. They'd focus on the game side of the game because the game is what they specifically came for.
Heck look at most GW store shelves, they have rack after rack of games, but the BL books might be only a few shelves, perhaps a whole rack at a major store. By and large they hold far far far less store display. If they were selling like crazy to customers they'd command far more shelf space and inventory of stock.
Do we have any facts or figures about how many black library books are sold, hobby participation, players reading them vs none hobbyists reading them etc?
Seems a lot of baseless conjecture otherwise.
I seem to recall some mentions that BL sales haven't moved much over the years, barring a few landmark series.
BL authors would be the best ones to ask. However we can also base it on the the fact that new books don't generate vast amounts of interest that models do online; that many people at local clubs don't show much awareness/reading of the books and that the books are not commanding major shelf space in GW stores.
We can very easily see that BL books are not as widely read and they are pure lore. We also have examples like PP who show that disconnecting lore and rules can result in fewer and fewer picking up the lore itself. Even to the point where it becomes unprofitable to even print the lore at all.
Consider that we typically have only 1 really active thread on BL books upcoming and even within that thread it rarely gets highly active and it easily falls behind other threads. We do get some lore chatter, but we don't get extensive threads talking about the latest books. At least nothing in comparison to models and rules and such sides of things. Clearly whilst some BL series do make the Best Sellers list that is a different market to the actual model buying community reading them - same as Warhammer TW hits the best sellers but it doesn't mean everyone who wargames has played it.
Typical BL buying community and actual model buying community actually have a huge overlap.
Yeah, I am pretty happy with my 2nd Ed stuff and the contents of Assault on Black Reach and Dark Vengeance. Once I have all of that painted up, I really have no need to go any further with Space Marines, which is nice.
I can just ignore all that stuff. The only "new" stuff I am interested in is Adeptus Mechanicus and Genestealer Cults.
Jidmah wrote: "Hey, SM player, don't bring too many space marines."
I think in a non comp setting, if a playerbase only wants to play marines, it means that SM are OP "in that local meta". So yes, why wouldn' t xenos players ask SM players to gimp themselves ? The SM players want to purge xenos don't they ? Well, players need to communicate here for everyone to be happy.
I for one play in a comp setting so everyone manages to win with their army, so I don't really care what people bring, I want to learn how to beat it whatever is in the list.
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
Yep, me too. The majority of the primaris range does nothing to thrill me and that seems to be compounding my disfavour with the direction GW is taking the game's rules. I've decided to focus on painting my backlog instead.
So as a conclusion the playerbase isn't 75% marines, marine saturation is simply GW's release schedule and that in essence if you ignore all GW's marketing and sales cycle, there isn't as much of a problem on a game to game basis? Obviously beyond the fact there are more marine players than any other faction, just not as disproportionately as expected based on releases.
There clearly is a bias towards people switching to marines because their primary army has no support and stopped being fun to play, with another group of people is switching to marines because the army they would like to play in competitive games simply doesn't do as well as marines.
I know that there has been a decent exodus of people locally into Marines due to the support and the strength of the recent Space Marine books. The current support GW is providing Marines is tilting the playerbase into a single faction in many ways.
Yep. Once again, when play petered out locally, the last couple of weeks where people tried to set up in-person games was just 2-3 people going
"hey, looking to bring my Blood Angels, played against marines the last few weeks so like to have a different opponent this time..."
"Got my salamanders, any non-marine players want to get a game in?"
"Have my ultramarines, would really like to purge some xenos!"
...and then nobody ended up having a game set up. Obviously, the major reason for the petering out was covid, but this isn't the first, or the second, or the third time I've seen nobody end up playing games in a given week because everyone is just playing marines, everyone is sick of marines, but nobody is willing to be the ones to willingly get steamrolled by playing something other than marines. It's almost like this has been going basically non-stop since Codex 2.0 what, a year and a half ago?
Hah hah ! They all want to be heroes. I am pretty sure I can beat many marine armies with my nids thanks to my FW new toys, but they would have to not bring too many eradicators. Or I get eradicated and it's fine, because I really don't mind losing. Perhaps by asking marine players to "not bring too much of X or Y" then the steamrolling of non marine factions would stop ? And peace be restored, and wargaming be resumed !
Or gw could just price loyalist units appropriately. Those eradicators your scared of evaporating your nids for example should be about 50% more expensive. I expect the next CA to address this. Higher points for loyalists = less loyalists.
One could uncharitably suggest that under-pricing them at release is a way to goose demand. There's too many counter-examples of stuff being released that's crap though, to really draw the conclusion GW does that intentionally.
What ever the numbers are they for sure ain't the numbers of sell stuff like Indomitus or even rule books achive. But maybe this is just the view point of someone not from an english speaking country. Although it is worth pointing out, that translations are not liked much here. w40k lore and rules in polish sound horrific bad.
Reading w40k lore is like painting. Some people like it a lot, majority limit themselfs to what over is obligatory and there is a big group of people that never do it, because they don't care about it.
If GW made two type of codex books. One with all the art and the lore, and the other with just pages of rules. And made both books cost the same, and by that I mean the cost of the rule book being brought up to the price of a book with pictures. The book with the rules would sell out, the book with the pictures would not sell as well.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
Reading w40k lore is like painting. Some people like it a lot, majority limit themselfs to what over is obligatory and there is a big group of people that never do it, because they don't care about it.
I'm gonna need some kind of source for this "Majority" of people who hate painting and just do it because it is obligatory..what is the point of playing 40k over pretty much any other game is the fact that you can paint your miniatures to look like your dudes.
Why would you ever choose to play 40k over - as an example - the totally free TTS video game program version of 40k if you didn't care about the hobby aspect?
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Reading w40k lore is like painting. Some people like it a lot, majority limit themselfs to what over is obligatory and there is a big group of people that never do it, because they don't care about it.
I'm gonna need some kind of source for this "Majority" of people who hate painting and just do it because it is obligatory..what is the point of playing 40k over pretty much any other game is the fact that you can paint your miniatures to look like your dudes.
Why would you ever choose to play 40k over - as an example - the totally free TTS video game program version of 40k if you didn't care about the hobby aspect?
I find painting horrendous and only do it because my friends like playing against painted armies. But that's the thing, they are my friends and the social interaction of game night just can't be replicated by something like TTS. Same for games against other people, I might never see them again but physically being there as 2 persons enjoying the same hobby just can't be beaten. Not that I agree with Karol's "majority" take, but yes I do believe quite a few people don't like the hobby aspect all that much.
I'm gonna need some kind of source for this "Majority" of people who hate painting and just do it because it is obligatory..what is the point of playing 40k over pretty much any other game is the fact that you can paint your miniatures to look like your dudes.
Why would you ever choose to play 40k over - as an example - the totally free TTS video game program version of 40k if you didn't care about the hobby aspect?
There is a spectrum of things between hate and just not like. Just like there is one between smiling stupid all the time and having a I will kill you face. And painting is more or less obligatory. Not only do stores and events enforce it, but also now the rules give the VP, so playing with an unpainted army means you lose.
And as to why would someone pick real life w40k over not real life, there are many. Starting with stuff like already owning an army for w40k or liking the physical aspect of beating someone you know, instead doing it to some random person online. You don't need to like the stuff you do to do it or to like it results.
And I don't get the your dudes thing at all. Unless you sculpted the whole model yourself or at least its majority, then you aren't playing with your dudes, your playing with dudes that GW made. And colour is just a secondary thing, heck some of us don't even see the difference between some of them, so it doesn't even matter that much.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
I'm gonna need some kind of source for this "Majority" of people who hate painting and just do it because it is obligatory..what is the point of playing 40k over pretty much any other game is the fact that you can paint your miniatures to look like your dudes.
Why would you ever choose to play 40k over - as an example - the totally free TTS video game program version of 40k if you didn't care about the hobby aspect?
There is a spectrum of things between hate and just not like. Just like there is one between smiling stupid all the time and having a I will kill you face. And painting is more or less obligatory. Not only do stores and events enforce it, but also now the rules give the VP, so playing with an unpainted army means you lose.
And as to why would someone pick real life w40k over not real life, there are many. Starting with stuff like already owning an army for w40k or liking the physical aspect of beating someone you know, instead doing it to some random person online. You don't need to like the stuff you do to do it or to like it results.
And I don't get the your dudes thing at all. Unless you sculpted the whole model yourself or at least its majority, then you aren't playing with your dudes, your playing with dudes that GW made. And colour is just a secondary thing, heck some of us don't even see the difference between some of them, so it doesn't even matter that much.
"My dudes" doesnt only mean their color. Its the whole narrative behind your forces. It can be as simple as army composition and doesn't even need to be something you invented. My night lords are still "My dudes" because they have a story in my head about them (They're blessed by Slaanesh even if they do not openly worship her) and they are particularly fond of flaying people alive, even by night lords standards. To represent that, my models have extra bits of flesh i added onto them, nothing too extreme.
Even if i didnt have that very basic narrative in my head, they'd still be my dudes because i get to assemble them, kitbash them and paint them as i wish. I did them. Even if i painted an ultramarine army exactly like GW does, it would still be my dudes.
Just because it doesn't matter to you doesn't mean it doesn't matter to others.
Karol wrote: And I don't get the your dudes thing at all. Unless you sculpted the whole model yourself or at least its majority, then you aren't playing with your dudes, your playing with dudes that GW made.
It's easy. It's just the stories that develop around the models you use. Not the stories GW writes about them, but the memorable things that've happened during your actual games with them.
For example: Here's the tale of how my DA assault marine Sgt, his bionic arm (wich sometimes has rules depending upon the edition) and a Munitorium shipping snafu.
* Waaay back in 3rd ed I was playing in a tourney. My DA jump Sgt and several of his squad became casualties in the 1st game. In removing them from the table the Sgt got dropped. He hit the concrete floor & his sword arm sheered off just above the elbow, skittering away to Emperor knows where. Being a strictly WYSIWYG player, & lacking bitz to fix him, I took a black marker & colored the stump of his arm - the black carapace doing it's job & sealing his wound!
And then, being that WYS guy, I played the next 4 games minus his melee weapon attack. Opponents were quite surprised when I declined attacks based on him not having an arm, let alone a sword....
I intended to fix him once I got home.
* Didn't happen.
* Months later I pull the army out at another event (my DA were my "travel" army") and "*%$@...." I'd forgotten to fix him! So he fought another event minus his sword arm.... More surprised/confused opponents. "I'll fix him when I get home."
Repeat this sequence a few more times. Somewhere in there I jokingly told an opponent that the Munitorium must've lost his bionic arm in shipping....
* Eventually plastic Necrons come out. I use a spare arm, a pin, & a power sword and crafted the Sgt a bionic arm. Thing is? I didn't go pull the DA case. (I'll do it later....) I put the arm in the magnetic bolt dish on the work desk so it wouldn't get lost.
* Months later I take the DA to another event.... See where this is going?
Same thing "I'll fix him when I get home". A long drive later, put the army away not thinking about that arm....
* Repeat sequence several more times.
* Eventually, late in 4th edition, actual real world YEARS after his injury, I got around to attaching the Sgts 'new" bionic arm. Yay! The techs finally caught it up to him!
Yes, GW made the model, the Necron arm, the power sword, & even the paint/glue used. But that's MY Dark Angels assault marine Sgt. It's the story of his arm that sets him apart from everybody else's Assault Marine Sgt minis.
I've been doing this "Crusade" thing long before it was in the rules!
And in my Guard case I've got a stormtrooper squad that's killed (and salvaged) a Reaver Titan! But that's a tale for another time....
So you've been playing a few years now. Any of your minis have stories attached?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/15 04:41:50
I know some people really take their own army's narrative super seriously, and that's amazing.
But I know a lot of people don't. To them they're just Space Marines that get the best buff if they're painted green (or whatever the case).
Although we can debate just how much less popular a separate lore tome would be, surely we can agree it would be less popular than the codexes are at the moment?
Only the people interested in lore enough to buy it would buy it, but a lot of those people will already be familiar with the lore from previous codexes/novels/lexicanum and wouldn't buy it anyway.
Meanwhile, GW would be obligated to sell their rules-codexes cheaper due to their noticeably less content, they would drive away sales if they kept the current prices.
That means GW makes less money on the near 100% of players that buy codexes.
Granted, selling this format cheaper would encourage some people who currently refuse to buy the codexes (such as myself) to pick them up. But IMO that's not an argument to have a separate lore tome, that's an argument to sell pocket-editions of codexes with just the rules.
Karol wrote: And I don't get the your dudes thing at all. Unless you sculpted the whole model yourself or at least its majority, then you aren't playing with your dudes, your playing with dudes that GW made.
Spoiler:
It's easy. It's just the stories that develop around the models you use. Not the stories GW writes about them, but the memorable things that've happened during your actual games with them.
For example: Here's the tale of how my DA assault marine Sgt, his bionic arm (wich sometimes has rules depending upon the edition) and a Munitorium shipping snafu.
* Waaay back in 3rd ed I was playing in a tourney. My DA jump Sgt and several of his squad became casualties in the 1st game. In removing them from the table the Sgt got dropped. He hit the concrete floor & his sword arm sheered off just above the elbow, skittering away to Emperor knows where. Being a strictly WYSIWYG player, & lacking bitz to fix him, I took a black marker & colored the stump of his arm - the black carapace doing it's job & sealing his wound! And then, being that WYS guy, I played the next 4 games minus his melee weapon attack. Opponents were quite surprised when I declined attacks based on him not having an arm, let alone a sword.... I intended to fix him once I got home.
* Didn't happen.
* Months later I pull the army out at another event (my DA were my "travel" army") and "*%$@...." I'd forgotten to fix him! So he fought another event minus his sword arm.... More surprised/confused opponents. "I'll fix him when I get home." Repeat this sequence a few more times. Somewhere in there I jokingly told an opponent that the Munitorium must've lost his bionic arm in shipping....
* Eventually plastic Necrons come out. I use a spare arm, a pin, & a power sword and crafted the Sgt a bionic arm. Thing is? I didn't go pull the DA case. (I'll do it later....) I put the arm in the magnetic bolt dish on the work desk so it wouldn't get lost.
* Months later I take the DA to another event.... See where this is going? Same thing "I'll fix him when I get home". A long drive later, put the army away not thinking about that arm....
* Repeat sequence several more times.
* Eventually, late in 4th edition, actual real world YEARS after his injury, I got around to attaching the Sgts 'new" bionic arm. Yay! The techs finally caught it up to him!
Yes, GW made the model, the Necron arm, the power sword, & even the paint/glue used. But that's MY Dark Angels assault marine Sgt. It's the story of his arm that sets him apart from everybody else's Assault Marine Sgt minis. I've been doing this "Crusade" thing long before it was in the rules!
And in my Guard case I've got a stormtrooper squad that's killed (and salvaged) a Reaver Titan! But that's a tale for another time....
So you've been playing a few years now. Any of your minis have stories attached?
Ah that one time a sole Khorne berzerker of mine earned his Trophy by Powerfisting alone a Necron Shard into oblivion. He still has his trophy rack, allbeit i really need to update his painting. Since then he runs around with an old chaos barbarian banner as a trophy rack
There was that one squad of my R&H grenadiers that i sadly don't own anymore that singlehandedly won me a game against Tau by dropping in an floorwiping a full 10 man squad of tau out of a valkyrie onto an objective Maximum badassery was had that day.
The time were my R&H commander curbstomped a Dark eldar archon with a power sword.
The invincible decimator of doom. ( that one is ridicoulus especially in context of the lore of Decimators)
My old flying circus for my Mekwarband reenacting Vietnam against some DA marines. 2 Dakka 1 Burna.. i seriously need to rebuild my ork army at some point.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/15 08:37:35
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Reading w40k lore is like painting. Some people like it a lot, majority limit themselfs to what over is obligatory and there is a big group of people that never do it, because they don't care about it.
I'm gonna need some kind of source for this "Majority" of people who hate painting and just do it because it is obligatory..what is the point of playing 40k over pretty much any other game is the fact that you can paint your miniatures to look like your dudes.
Why would you ever choose to play 40k over - as an example - the totally free TTS video game program version of 40k if you didn't care about the hobby aspect?
Converting? Kitbashing, posing, greenstuffing, using plasticard, that's what I like the most. I'll paint my models, but not because I enjoy it so much (eventually... I promise!).
