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How do?

Another probably basic question from yours truly, Plebby McPlebbington.

In short, it’s as per the thread title. Specifically, but not limited to, my Gloomspite Squig Horde.

See, my Squig Herds can come in units of six, my Hoppers in units of 5, and the same for the Bounders. Now, being an old school Fantasy player (ever since the first boxed edition, which was....3rd, I think? Probably 4th?) I’ve a long standing aversion to MSU. Too easily wiped out, leading to panic checks for nearby units. And larger units brought standing combat resolution points which were near essential against Chariots and Monsters.

Yet....in Age of Sigmar? Those issues are gone. And thanks to how Battleshock works (or at least my “I know what the rules say” understanding of it), MSU can be desirable - that way I’m limiting Battleshock tests. They might also lead to my opponent splitting their range fire too far, and achieving less with it.

But, the downside is Combat. Larger units mean I can get their attacks done and out the way. With MSU. I risk at least some of those units being picked on and picked off before they get to swing.

Now, in terms of the Hoppers and Bounders specifically? They of course have random movement (3D6 and 2D6 respectively). And both have ways to dish out Mortal Wounds. Hoppers by moving over enemy units, Bounders on the charge. So MSU could, arguably, somewhat insulate me from low movement rolls, whilst also giving me more options when it comes to blagging Mortal Wounds.

Hopefully what I’ve said makes sense, and has shown some of my thoughts on the subject. And I look forward to reading your thoughts and experiences on the matter.

In my experience Gitz can get away with larger units better than most. Between the large footprint of the shrine and all the CP from the Shamans/Moon making Inspiring Presence almost always a possiblity if needed.

You outlined the basic factors nicely, another big one being melee weapon range. But to really examine the matter it needs to be narrowed down to a specific unit because of how many other factors come in. At any rate;

Herds; 6 isn't enough to deal damage effectively and doesn't work as an objective camper as well as other GSG units. 12 or 18-man works much better. You only care about the attacks of the squigs and even with 1" range getting the bulk of 10/15 models in is very doable. Also since you only need one harder, larger sizes give you extra that you can kill first without reducing the unit's combat potential.

Hoppers; MSU. You are using these guys to fill battleline slots and to be fast cavalry, neither of which need (or even want) more than minimum size. They are notably worse for their points than bounders, even considering the extra speed. Unless they are needed for battleline/battalion slots is little reason to take them at all unfortunately.

Bounders; 10-man units are good. A sizable chunk of the unit's damage output is from the MW charge ability (not restricted by range) and the riders' lances (2" melee range) so they don't suffer like most 32mm base units do. 15-man is doable even, but will definitely need battleshock immunity through whatever means.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Hoppers; MSU. You are using these guys to fill battleline slots and to be fast cavalry, neither of which need (or even want) more than minimum size. They are notably worse for their points than bounders, even considering the extra speed. Unless they are needed for battleline/battalion slots is little reason to take them at all unfortunately.

There is another consideration concerning unit size here. Positioning. Larger units make it harder to move over others & dole out MWs.

One more bonus for bigger units is buffs from spells and abilities effect more models in large units. But, same can also be said for debuffs.

Cheers for the input so far.

Still can’t quite bring myself to MSU, but will definitely experiment with them. As others have said, it does make decent sense for Squig Hoppers. I mean, if it’s a small unit, and I’m leaping over a character, I can potentially “hop scotch” with my models, ensuring they all get the chance to deliver a MW. Seems a key trick to getting the most out of them, as I can potentially bounce then charge.

Also for screen/speed bumb bigger units can have advantage in that opponent has harder time charging your screen, wipe, get double turn and charge your main line. Albeit you could get sort of same effect with 2 layers but 1 small unit as screen isn't that effective screen even if they prevent charge to your unit behind.

Small units does have disadvantage of increasing drop count. Getting outdropped can be very bad. Deciding who gets first turn is pretty important.

Think I’ll start by playing to my prejudices whilst I get a better handle on the main game, lest my inevitable early (probably heavy) losses further colour my current aversion to MSU.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh. And the other issue is the Squig Rider Stampede only allow 1-3 units of Hoppers/Bounders..... so going MSU is going to limit that, spesh when it’s a 140 point batallion.

5 hoppers, 10 bounders, 10 bounders

With Age of Sigmar I aim for the most numerous sized units I think I can manage and not lose more than 2/3 table control if needed.

What I take into consideration is how many losses can I expect before the unit gets into combat (I tend to have no real ranged attack and face opponents with lots) and how many models can actually get an attack in general. I find that with 32mm based infantry with a 1" reach I can easily expect 7-8 models to get an attack and up to 11 with favorable conditions (open area, good charge roll, etc.). Anything over 11 models is usually not going to happen often. I like 32mm infantry units of about 15 since I can expect at least 1 or 2 losses minimum every time the unit is attacked and expect the unit to often be hit twice before getting an attack. Which works out great with Chaos Warriors and their re-roll Save rule with 10 or more models. It also works well with Daemonic Power should I cast it on them. Finally, it also allows for me to maintain my Mark of Chaos aura a little better since I can't spread them out too far.

For large, kinda slow cavalry (read: Chaos Knights) I can manage 6-7 models with 1" reach and a more certain 7 models with 2" (glaive/lance) reach. I run my Chaos Knights in groups of 10, however; I think that is generally to unwieldy and probably should drop to 5 if I was being honest with myself. I do want to make the most of my magic buffs and auras though to I don't mind have a few knights that can't get stuck in easily.

I haven't played my Lumineth yet. That said, I think I can make groups of 20 Wardens (spearmen) work since they have a 3" reach, but I will probably have to yield Shining Companies to accomplish that. I also think I will mostly stick with units of 10 for my Dawn Riders (Cavalry)

I have only played Gloomspite Gitz once, and they were primarily a Troggoth army. The squigs in that army seemed to do pretty well in larger groups. I also am aware of either a subfaction and/or a Battalion that allows squigs a much more reliable move and/or the ability to run/advance and still charge. Combine this with the faction also having so decent ways to generate CP, and I would think you would want bigger units to make the most of that.

Understand, I don't have all that many AoS games under my belt as I only started about this time last year, it isn't my only miniatures game and Covid has halted all gaming for me. So I could be off in my assessment.

Further thinks, on which I’ll definitely need experienced minds to chip in on.

Whilst I’m some way from tournament level play (I’m so green, I’d be no fun as an opponent), it is something I’d like to get involved in. Not just to challenge myself, but for variety of opponents.

So what’s the Meta like in terms of unit sizes? As whilst I’m happy to lose otherwise fun games, I don’t want to hamstring myself from the off - and that will likely involve getting used to how it’s most widely played.

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:


For large, kinda slow cavalry (read: Chaos Knights) I can manage 6-7 models with 1" reach and a more certain 7 models with 2" (glaive/lance) reach. I run my Chaos Knights in groups of 10, however; I think that is generally to unwieldy and probably should drop to 5 if I was being honest with myself. I do want to make the most of my magic buffs and auras though to I don't mind have a few knights that can't get stuck in easily.

On that logic 10 seems good. I never　expect to get into combat without casualties anyway. For 5 i thus would expect to reach combat with 2-3 models anyway