Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Yeah that was pretty disappointing. I mean it's not like there's even anything in there about competitive play. I thought it was going to be about using the app to track games the way BCP does to get data and that sort of thing...but it wasn't. It was just "we made this app and we're really excited to have you use it!" with literally nothing more. Totally content-free.
Well there was one thing, that the writing is pretty clearly on the walls that the app will be mandatory for events getting coverage or run by GW.
Quoting for posterity. I accept any and all ridicule if this turns out to be true.
AduroT wrote: There’s no way. If they go and do that now/later, the uproar from people who previously sold/gave away their app codes from the codexes will be crazy.
I'm fairly sure that GW doesn't care about the uproar of people selling/giving away things that they aren't supposed to sell or give away.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
AduroT wrote: There’s no way. If they go and do that now/later, the uproar from people who previously sold/gave away their app codes from the codexes will be crazy.
And then die away, because at this point you could spit in your average 40k players' face and he'd thank the Emperor and GW.
AduroT wrote: There’s no way. If they go and do that now/later, the uproar from people who previously sold/gave away their app codes from the codexes will be crazy.
I'm hopeful that they enforces the use of the app so all the bugs and issue will be revealed in an explosive way...
Imagine being in a tournament, and finding that you opponent is exploiting a mistake in the app k or some differences between the paper codex and the all)... Those would be some funny moments.
I can't condone a place where abusers and abused are threated the same: it's destined to doom, so there is no reason to participate in it.
More than likely the list data is held on some sort of database and at this stage it's not persistent. Chances are they have destructive changes happening still which means DB is being changed and data is lost.
The DB structure itself is probably being changed
Once it goes beyond Beta any DB changes will have to be non destructive and backwards compatible, allowing all data to be retained.
AduroT wrote: There’s no way. If they go and do that now/later, the uproar from people who previously sold/gave away their app codes from the codexes will be crazy.
They'll gripe, but buy another copy anyway.
Exactly. All y'all are awful when it comes to voting with your wallets. We already had people here defending this garbage app because "it has future potential". Like, any other app you'd just not buy into until it's a complete product.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Billicus wrote: Which for a product they're already charging for is bananas.
It's in beta and they gave you a free month, pretty sure that hasn't expired yet.
It's been going for what, four months or so now? This is also the first time they've labelled it as a beta I believe.
OK, sorry, I was assuming we're talking about Battle Forge here. What's the part of the app that's been out for months and allows you to create lists that could get wiped, then? Apparently I missed that.
Billicus wrote: Which for a product they're already charging for is bananas.
It's in beta and they gave you a free month, pretty sure that hasn't expired yet.
It's been going for what, four months or so now? This is also the first time they've labelled it as a beta I believe.
OK, sorry, I was assuming we're talking about Battle Forge here. What's the part of the app that's been out for months and allows you to create lists that could get wiped, then? Apparently I missed that.
It was supposed to launch with Battle Forge in July. They apologized and said that would be available soon. They Just Now got the Beta for that going. They’ve been charging full price on the app the entire time. Five times the price of the AoS app, which has a fully functional army builder.
Billicus wrote: Which for a product they're already charging for is bananas.
It's in beta and they gave you a free month, pretty sure that hasn't expired yet.
It's been going for what, four months or so now? This is also the first time they've labelled it as a beta I believe.
OK, sorry, I was assuming we're talking about Battle Forge here. What's the part of the app that's been out for months and allows you to create lists that could get wiped, then? Apparently I missed that.
It was supposed to launch with Battle Forge in July. They apologized and said that would be available soon. They Just Now got the Beta for that going. They’ve been charging full price on the app the entire time. Five times the price of the AoS app, which has a fully functional army builder.
battle Forge, which is the army builder, was just released as a beta with a month of free trial. That's what we're talking about here, right? You're complaining about that new feature which they're calling a beta and giving out for free right now. I'd see your point if they hadn't called it a beta AND OFFERED A FREE MONTH, but like this?
I am NOT saying the app is priced correctly or worth the money they're asking outside of that free month, though. See previous posts ...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/19 10:29:44
Billicus wrote: Which for a product they're already charging for is bananas.
It's in beta and they gave you a free month, pretty sure that hasn't expired yet.
It's been going for what, four months or so now? This is also the first time they've labelled it as a beta I believe.
OK, sorry, I was assuming we're talking about Battle Forge here. What's the part of the app that's been out for months and allows you to create lists that could get wiped, then? Apparently I missed that.
It was supposed to launch with Battle Forge in July. They apologized and said that would be available soon. They Just Now got the Beta for that going. They’ve been charging full price on the app the entire time. Five times the price of the AoS app, which has a fully functional army builder.
battle Forge, which is the army builder, was just released as a beta with a month of free trial. That's what we're talking about here, right? You're complaining about that new feature which they're calling a beta and giving out for free right now. I'd see your point if they hadn't called it a beta AND OFFERED A FREE MONTH, but like this?
I am NOT saying the app is priced correctly or worth the money they're asking outside of that free month, though. See previous posts ...
Yes, they released a one month free trial Now of a beta product they’ve been charging people full price for for five months despite its absence. They’ve been charging monthly admission fees for a movie that’s not out, but then gave you a free trailer five months late.
battle Forge, which is the army builder, was just released as a beta with a month of free trial. That's what we're talking about here, right? You're complaining about that new feature which they're calling a beta and giving out for free right now. I'd see your point if they hadn't called it a beta AND OFFERED A FREE MONTH, but like this?
I am NOT saying the app is priced correctly or worth the money they're asking outside of that free month, though. See previous posts ...
you get a minimum discount because the product that should have been there from the beginning is now a public Beta Test
would have been even worse if GW let people pay to be part of a public Beta-Test and now we should be thankful and praise GW because they did not do something that is a big no-go anyway?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/19 13:47:19
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
Billicus wrote: Which for a product they're already charging for is bananas.
It's in beta and they gave you a free month, pretty sure that hasn't expired yet.
They've been charging for the app for like, six months. But I'm sure the billion-pound company is grateful you're covering for them
>OK, sorry, I was assuming we're talking about Battle Forge here. What's the part of the app that's been out for months and allows you to create lists that could get wiped, then?
It's all the same product, they have been charging people since launch on the promise of the army builder coming soon*tm* and now that it's here it still isn't ready for launch. It's bananas. If you think it isn't bananas you put a very low value on your own money.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/19 11:40:26
Cronch wrote: I am constantly amazed that people feel the need to give any slack to a billion-pound corporation.
And I don't understand why I have to be black-and-white about everything. What happened to "looking at pros and cons"?
If you're loudly shouting about a "free beta being too expensive and buggy" instead of looking at actual issues with the app, such as "this is not a reasonable price for what you're offering, even if all the bugs are gone", that's not going to fix anything because that's going to get your feedback dismissed entirely.
Again, since apparently this is a concept that's really hard to grasp: I am talking about Battleforge. Not the 4 months before.
I cancelled my initial subscription quickly because the App without BF was not remotely worth the asking price.
When BF came out, I took the free month, created a few lists, found that the builder itself is pretty good (as in: I like the flow of how you create your army list better than what BS does) but has three major issues to me:
* missing desktop PC support
* completely overpriced - I'd feel comfortable with 5 Euros a month if no book purchases were required, or if buying a book and unlocking a code would also unlock the army builder for that faction without subscribing.
* absolutely no Legends support
Out of these, only Legends might get fixed, but that wouldn't fix the other two issues. So I unsubscribed again and sent them my feedback. That's "voting with your wallet", and how Capitalism is supposed to work.
There are obviously other issues such as
* no duplication of units
* no proper export/share function
* list validation errors
that are easily fixed, and should be fixed by the end of the Beta, of course.
But sure, all I'm doing is kissing a billion-pound-companies ass no matter what they do wrong.
Spoiler:
That's not how capitalism works, you MUST demand the most for your money or the whole system falls apart ffs.
That's not how capitalism works though - this "I have to get the most out of everything, I don't care if that's an issue for the other party", that's just being an donkey-cave and has nothing to do with the economic system you live in. But this isn't a topic for dakkadakka.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/19 12:06:51
Treating GW as if it would be optional is a bit delusional considering it is a form of Monopolist.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Not Online!!! wrote: Treating GW as if it would be optional is a bit delusional considering it is a form of Monopolist.
Who are you responding to? I don't think anyone suggested that GW is optional to 40k.
Cronch wrote: I am constantly amazed that people feel the need to give any slack to a billion-pound corporation.
That's not how capitalism works, you MUST demand the most for your money or the whole system falls apart ffs.
to this, basically the market doesn't really play for 40k / GW in many ways, and it is shown in their attitude.
It's also more obvious in the apps case because there is a competitor, battle scribe, that does it better for cheaper.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Tries to create a black legion battalion with Abaddon, 1 sorceror, 1 dark apostle and 3 cultist units. This should be super easy right?
Doesn't allow me to set my sorceror psychic powers as weaver of fates and warptime even though I gave it mark of tzeenth.
Doesn't consider this battle forged... (I have no idea why).
I see if I can select council of traitors from pre game strategems. It says there are "zero" pre game stratgems I can use... wow ... so I can't even buy extra artifacts...
I kinda gave up after spending like a whole hour trying to create a relatively simply black legion army list...
Not Online!!! wrote: to this, basically the market doesn't really play for 40k / GW in many ways, and it is shown in their attitude.
It's also more obvious in the apps case because there is a competitor, battle scribe, that does it better for cheaper.
Ah, I get it now - thanks! Yeah, I think that's why they think they can get away with such a "unique" pricing model. Everyone else does either on demand or subscription, maybe both in parallel - but requiring both at the same time? That's just unreasonable, especially at premium prices.
It is funny how the their own contest highlights the shortcomings of the app. They are asking the user to share their lists on Twitter, but there is no easy and nice way to do this. You can share your list directly to twitter, but all it does is trying to cram serveral hundred of letters into a single tweet. This doesn't work obviously. The app clearly lacks the ability to compress the army list data into an image or a link or even a automatically generated text file. So most contest participants resolve this problem by taking several screenshots of their list. Some users put the raw text into a multiple posts. None of the solution are very appealing. Some poor users aren't even aware of this problem and post only the header of their army list or a single screenshot with the first couple of units out of their 3000+ points list. Maybe they think that GW can somehow read the contents of the army list in their app, so they it is sufficient to only post the name of the list and GW deduces all the details. If one of them is amongst the winners, it will either be a rude awakening, or GW has has to be extra generous to mitigate the fallout.
Peak GW...
Goes to show that Quality assurance isn't just a tag on group but rather important.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
