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I think its more that the last AoS battletome focused almost exclusively on the leaders. Because of how Depravity worked you didn't really "need/want" anything but leaders and 3 small units of deamonettes for battleline requirements.
Otherwise it was better to have more leaders and summon more leaders. The rest of the model line - chariots, seekers, hellstriders, deamonettes, fiends - weren't bad, but they weren't cheap to buy (points wise) and nothing in them really stood out. Especially when matched against the depravity mechanic.
So I think that's been one issue, the army just hasn't had good reason for fans to "want" to deploy alternative troop heavy forces or to summon more troops and suchlike.
I just hope this time the new Battletome doesn't do the same trick, only this time making mortals super powerful and a "must take" whilst leaving leaders and Demon based troops out in the cold.
Visually speaking I don't see any problems; the leaders they released and the updated fiends fit he line perfectly; the new mortals also fit the line really well. Whilst they aren't Diaz designs, the demonette units (deamonettes, seeker riders and chariots) are all solid kits with a neat amount of interchangeable parts and the chariot, whilst a nightmare of spikes, is a really neat kit in how it makes 2 different chariots out of the box and combines to make a 3rd option.
There's a lot to love in the current Slaanesh line and sure I'd love to see some Deamonette reworkings like those from the Libre Chaotica artwork, but what we have now is good.
Overread wrote: Considering the last 2 duel boxes with Slaanesh never sold out it might be that GW is trying to push Slaanesh harder in marketing.
They might have to make up their minds what slaanesh is about for that to work. Over the last several years, they've been all over the place. How hard it is to remember that s/he's the god of Sex Drugs and Rock&Roll?
Yet this seems to be a severe issue as they try to make a Family Friendly Warhammer using a setting best known for armies of not-Cenobites rampaging across space doing unkind things to people's backsides as a warm up for the *real* fun.
Was Slaanesh every just the god(dess) of lust and sex? People make memes about it, because that's funny. It's like saying Space Wolves name everything wolf, Dark Angels are team-killing heretics, and Alpha Legions have plans inside of plans inside of plans. Eventually, people assume the memes are canon and that they basically summarize the faction in question, which is terrible. With Slaanesh, it's more about desire, and excess, and indulgence. Sure, sex can fall into those categories. But so can gluttony. And someone that prizes possessions and ownership. The dude who wants to be the best is just as capable as falling to the Dark Prince as the man who wants to experience life to the fullest. Heck, Slaanesh's palace is divided into six areas, which include things like Avidity, Gluttony, and Carnality.
Your most complete explanation of Slaanesh, in one place, would be Liber Chaotica. The original explanation of Slaanesh would be Slaves to Darkness and Lost and the Damned (I think StD has more Slaanesh skew that LatD but I can't quite remember)
JWBS wrote: Your most complete explanation of Slaanesh, in one place, would be Liber Chaotica. The original explanation of Slaanesh would be Slaves to Darkness and Lost and the Damned (I think StD has more Slaanesh skew that LatD but I can't quite remember)
Slaves to Darkness is the original Slaanesh lore.
The book contains all lore and rules for Slaanesh deamons (and mortals) and Khorne's as well.
Lost and the Damned was about Tzeentch and Nurgle.
After all these years these books still have an amazing value from the lore content alone,
everything about chaos comes from these volumes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/02 02:08:00
hotsauceman1 wrote: Slaabesh was never the god of sex, durg and rock and roll.
They are the god is excess and hedonism and perfection
Tell me please, where I can find GW Slaanesh miniature with excess Sex and Perfection?
Everytime someone says "Slaanesh is not about sex" - assumes that it shouldn't be portrayed? And even if it is portrayed (and it is) shouldn't it be in EXCESS?
I'd probably would never had any claims to GW about Slaanesh themed models if it was stated "Slaanesh is not about sex" and never used sexualized visuals in their models. Because there are alot of sex-themed visual elements.
So it's simple - If it's not about sex - stop using relevant imagery. If it is - make it in a character the way you describe it.
Slaanesh is not only about sex - but it's one of the staple of Slaanesh imagery.
In my opinion the only excessive thing that GW portrays on Slaanesh miniatures is Jewelery. The rest is quite lackluster - and could be excessive (with a few exceptions like Infernal Enraptures and Fiends)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/01/02 02:26:06
GaroRobe wrote: Was Slaanesh every just the god(dess) of lust and sex? People make memes about it, because that's funny.
The problem is the memes tend to overwhelm and everyone just assumes that Slaanesh = Chaos God of Sex. This simply isn't true. As was mentioned above, Slaanesh is the Chaos God of Excess.
I have a somewhat unique perspective about this aspect of 40K, given that I worked on an entire book on this very subject, and to this day the 4Chan level of discourse about "LOL! Slaanesh is all about sex!" still pisses me off.
The whole concept with Lucius was his obsession with becoming the perfect swordsman. Slaanesh has a lot of aspects to their domain, but I think a lot of people lean into Slaanesh being the god of sex because a lot of the Slaanesh demons are sexualized miniatures (in an uncanny valley way), Which makes sense given Slaanesh’s domains. In all reality though, I imagine a large part of the reason earlier Slaanesh releases were very sexualized (to a point that not many other aspects were displayed) is because it’s a lot easier to display sexuality in a miniature than it is something like obsession, desire, pride, etc.
We can reasonably argue about how GW has tried to redefine and evolve slaanesh in recent years, but Slaanesh was conceived very much as the chaos god of pleasure, not excess. See below from Realm of Chaos, Slaves to Darkness.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/02 04:13:20
Rivetbull wrote: We can reasonably argue about how GW has tried to redefine and evolve slaanesh in recent years, but Slaanesh was conceived very much as the chaos god of pleasure, not excess. See below from Realm of Chaos, Slaves to Darkness.
And the Ultramarines once had a half-Eldar Chief Librarian.
40K went through a period of rationalisation at the end of Rogue Trader, and a lot of the original concepts were changed or thrown out completely.
Slaanesh was the god of pleasure, but Slaanesh's definition of pleasure ignored any boundaries or moral codes, and could include extreme things that normal people would find disgusting, agonizing, or suicidal. That is where the angle on excess comes from.
The key commandment to a Slaanesh follower was "Thou must Enjoy!"
Legions of Slaanesh
Slaanesh and his servants indulge in war: it is yet another pleasure to be sampled, not a serious business or test of strength. War is simply a game, part of the greater ritual, and Slaanesh is always the first to insist upon elaborate conditions and rituals before the Legions give battle.
The followers of Slaanesh seek gratification of the senses in all things. Battle is merely another method of finding a new warped pleasure. For Slaanesh's servants the thrills of battle are there to be joyfully experienced and repeated. Slaaneshi Daemons and mortal warriors delight in causing pain and killing; their wanton slaughter is spurred to greater heights by the pleasure they find in bloodshed.
The Slaaneshi attitude to battle and death is reflected in the Legion's appearance. Its troops parade in frivolous colours and clashing patterns, fantastic jewels and flamboyant costumes. The whole impression is that of a costume ball or masque rather than one of battle. The demeanour of a Slaaneshi Legion is equally perverse. Its Daemons and warriors shriek obscene jokes to each other, disport themselves with the dead and laugh with pleasure even as their own lives are taken. Any sensation, is after all, to be experienced and enjoyed. To express horror is a dreadful failing, one that is sure to be punished by the Lord of Pleasure.
-p. 185, Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/02 04:27:41
I always thought it was quite explicit that Slaanesh was born from extreme depraved violence, and the violence was mostly of a sexual nature, hence the depravity (as opposed to the purer violence of hate and anger that birthed Khorne). The other stuff that's often linked to Slaanesh like pride, lust and gluttony seem to be lesser facets. They barely touched on gluttony for the first decade or two. Pride was there from the start what with the descriptions of the ancient Eldar at their apogee, but rarely a focus. Same with narcissism, always there but under the surface. I suppose lust was always very important actually, when you consider the original KoS descriptions and illustrations, plus the explicit androgyny and all that this implies.
JWBS wrote: I always thought it was quite explicit that Slaanesh was born from extreme depraved violence, and the violence was mostly of a sexual nature, hence the depravity (as opposed to the purer violence of hate and anger that birthed Khorne). The other stuff that's often linked to Slaanesh like pride, lust and gluttony seem to be lesser facets. They barely touched on gluttony for the first decade or two. Pride was there from the start what with the descriptions of the ancient Eldar at their apogee, but rarely a focus. Same with narcissism, always there but under the surface. I suppose lust was always very important actually, when you consider the original KoS descriptions and illustrations, plus the explicit androgyny and all that this implies.
There is artwork in Realms of Chaos of an obese Slaanesh worshipper in one of the 2 page spreads. Clearly there has to be some gluttony to get that obese. It could be argued that the selfishness of treating others as playthings (again sometimes lethally so) is a form of pride and narcissism, such as that seen in serial killers. The whole "perfection" angle was I think a family friendly angle introduced with the HH and 3rd edition. Can't be hinting at battlefield necrophilia in front of the parents after all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/02 05:25:34
GW seems to have removed sex from their IPs more or less full-stop, so I guess it's not actually that inconsistent that Slaanesh would be the god-of-excess-which-definitely-doesn't-include-sexual-excess because apparently sex just doesn't really exist period in either 40k or AOS.
It's like a very weird version of 1950s TV. Plenty of decapitations, but everybody sleeps in separate beds.
I have little to zero interest in Slaanesh stuff as it exists now. I always wanted models that could live up to some of the black and white artwork from the old WHF hordes of chaos book. But back then GW art seemed much more grotesque but leaning towards some degree of realism. It was like a golden era when Kopinski was doing art for GW.
That's a shame, though I like this new release for the opposite reason- it finally captures the allure and appeal of slaanesh more than the grotesque monsters of old ever really seemed to live up to.
I'm quite happy with the new teased Slaanesh hero. It's about time we see something from the Chaos god of excess that isn't some vague sexual excess with a side dash of violence. You can't spell excess and depravity without gluttony and sloth. Plus, for those who really think Slaanesh as first and foremost sexual, I don't think I need to spell out the intimate relationship between food and sensual pleasure.
epronovost wrote: I'm quite happy with the new teased Slaanesh hero. It's about time we see something from the Chaos god of excess that isn't some vague sexual excess with a side dash of violence. You can't spell excess and depravity without gluttony and sloth. Plus, for those who really think Slaanesh as first and foremost sexual, I don't think I need to spell out the intimate relationship between food and sensual pleasure.
You mean have sex with them while eating them alive (or dead, whatever floats your boat)?
I wish they would show a more subtle take on the Slaanesh Champion beyond the examples of decadent nobles or crazed artist. Like for example, the ruler of a world that has seemingly turned their world into a paradise, without overt signs of Slaanesh influence or rampant decadence, where even the lower classes seem to have some leisure, basic comforts, and be content. Only for further investigation to find that this paradise while true, is sustained on them sucking dry other worlds around them for labor and resources. Like a cancer, the realm spreads, and the larger the gleaming core, the greater its rapacious hunger. No mere individual gluttony this, but the kind that drains worlds to dry husks.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Well that was disappointing.
I was hoping we would get something concrete but nope. Just something for a coded we know it coming.
C'mon GW atleast tell us what that stuff is.
Normally I'd agree, another nothing preview, but since I like AT a lot, and we've got confirmation of a new Titan (not yet another Knight) coming soon, I already got more from this preview than I got from all of Christmas day and advent calendar combined.
Agreed.
Only thing is that Slaanesh has been the hot potato of three previews now, and while I'm happy for those players( I guess they have been waiting a while? ) it was annoying to see it once again being all we have to look at. Even if it hadn't been the new AT Titan, I would have preferred to have seen something else for a change.
All? Clearly you didn't look at the video then. Titan, lumineth, vampire hunter and what might relate to vampires.
Rivetbull wrote: We can reasonably argue about how GW has tried to redefine and evolve slaanesh in recent years, but Slaanesh was conceived very much as the chaos god of pleasure, not excess. See below from Realm of Chaos, Slaves to Darkness.
And the Ultramarines once had a half-Eldar Chief Librarian.
40K went through a period of rationalisation at the end of Rogue Trader, and a lot of the original concepts were changed or thrown out completely.
As much as I typically agree with you and respect you have a nuanced view on this, if it is in the fluff as a god of pleasure, that's a reasonable thing to think of him as. However where people are losing some steam on it is what it stands for has changed over the years so to say its all about sex is wrong, but to say it's not is also wrong. It's more a matter of personal taste at this point cannon is cannon and they can choose to all of a sudden say space marines are instead all biker mice from mars that doesn't however make it so to every one who played/plays the game.
Arguing it is or isn't doesn't really get any one anywhere as it is, and it isn't. I'd say though its all about just over the top amounts of anything, food, pain, pleasure, greed, etc. So if someones idea of it is all about sex, maybe it is ? Mine could be all about torture. However they choose to change or throw it out doesn't change the fact it was at one point that, they can't change history but we can choose what we enjoy most to follow with their fluff right ?
While not a particular fan of Chaos, I'd say GW is doing a rather good job with Slaanesh being sexy without being all about sex. The Keeper of Secrets is overflowing with sex appeal in a properly disturbing way. The new mortals of Slaanesh have various sexy elements, such as peacock girl on Glutos Orscollion's palanquin, while also highlighting other areas of excess like gluttony and greed. A mobile shrine to excess.
The "New Edition, New Models" video is 6 months old already and we still haven't seen anything from it revealed
We literally saw the Palatine revealed at the end of the video from "New Edition, New Models".
We saw the Death Guard character a few previews later.
Christmas Day saw the reveal of Lelith Hesperax.
The only ones not revealed in full are the Skitarii and Ork.
And isn’t the Skitarii the same or similar model from the new video.
I’m also not quite understanding people basing we are gonna have a light/terrible 2021 based on today’s tease.
As if we are getting just 7 models from that video for the next 6 months even if that was the time frame, plus prior revealed things.
I mean, maybe they still like to keep some stuff not even revealed till their preview specifically for it?
Ya know, one in March previewing all of the April stuff let’s say. And if it was teased April was Lumineth, would we thing they are just getting a single model?
And if all that pirate/zombie stuff is just Underworlds, which it could be, then we already know the slot for it.
So that’s many teases from here and rumour engine stuff all sorted with a release window.
There’s no could fill April-June with just a Knight, Lumineth, and the Witch Hunter etc.
If the knight is a Titan and Witch Hunter from a new boxed WH Quest or similar. Then are both outside of the AoS and 40k release for any given month. So there’s a lot more to fill the rest of those gaps which is left unknown (particularly when it’ll be back to weekly releases by then by all estimations, unless something else happens).
I have to say, from an aesthetic perspective, I really don't 'get' Slaanesh.
The other chaos factions seem to embody their themes pretty well. Nurgle units are bloated and diseased, Tzeentch units are warped/shifting etc.
But if I tried to guess what Slaanesh was about just by looking at their units, I'd assume s/he was the god of lobster claws, long tongues, weird body piercings, and general ugliness.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
I think that is one issue, excess is hard to encapsulate within models. The Diaz era Deamonettes embodied sexuality in a big way with their bare chests and generally nice looking proportions. They were certainly made to be beautiful in their own way. They are likely how Deamonettes like to appear with their mind-tricks - when in reality they are closer to what we have now - with strangely shaped teeth and claw-pincers.
Sensuality I think is a part of Slaanesh even if its not a "core" facet its certainly part of the theme.
Quasistellar wrote: Yeah that is definitely one thing about Slaanesh I don't get: the lobster claws. Why out of all the things is that something that is always included?
Because that's what they started with.
One theme has always been that when a Deamonette is seen without their glamour, they are very alien and deadly in appearance. They could just as easily had blade arms and the like
Personally I really hope someone at GW opens the Libre Chaotica and uses a load of that concept art at some stage!
Quasistellar wrote: Yeah that is definitely one thing about Slaanesh I don't get: the lobster claws. Why out of all the things is that something that is always included?
Because it from the beginning was present, as a means to show Slaanesh and Slaanesh worshippers as having alien tastes beyond normal conventional ideas of beauty and desirability and with the claws' deadliness a nod towards sado-masochism.
Ok so I cracked open the acursed LIBRE CHAOTICA (seriously if you get a chance to own a copy get it).
Within which Slaanesh is described as a Chaos God of Pleasure.
However the author quickly goes on to clarify that whilst Slaanesh is a god of pleasure, its not purely sexual; its all kinds of pleasure in excess. Food, touch, smell, painting, art, singing.
I think that this has steadily changed from pleasure to excess because its easier to convey the multiple interpretations away form purely sexual themes when one uses the term "excess" as opposed to "pleasure". It explains why pleasurable excess is more the motif not pure pleasure nor pure excess.
So the Glutton Lord we have now isn't just into eating alone; he's into the pleasure of consumption. Each choice morsel is a delight for his pallet. He will travel far to taste the most exotic and delicately crafted foods. That these foods might well include such delicacies as "Toe of Dwarf" and "Eye of Aelf" is, well...
5000pts 
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