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Slaanesh has a problem. Why? Well, he has pleasure in his portfolio but none of his models, with the exception of the blonde chaos warrior with the mirror shield, can be described as being attractive. This is an epic fail.

Some posters said GW can't get away with SM models now because of today's cancel culture. I have to disagree. The Wracks of the Dark Eldar line resemble the demons from the Hellraiser horror movies. So GW can do it, if they want to but they decided to give Slaanesh a new trait instead:

Most hideous of all the four major powers.

 Strg Alt wrote:
Slaanesh has a problem. Why? Well, he has pleasure in his portfolio but none of his models, with the exception of the blonde chaos warrior with the mirror shield, can be described as being attractive. This is an epic fail.

Some posters said GW can't get away with SM models now because of today's cancel culture. I have to disagree. The Wracks of the Dark Eldar line resemble the demons from the Hellraiser horror movies. So GW can do it, if they want to but they decided to give Slaanesh a new trait instead:

Most hideous of all the four major powers.

Well you don't have to be good looking to have, recieve or give pleasure? Alot of their alure was supposed to be mind tricks and musk - but I think there is room for both

The old Diaz models also did cover this re Daemonettes but be cool to haeva few more

- after all do Daemons even have a "true" form?

The point with Slaanesh demons at least is that the beauty, as humans understand it, is a glamour. A trick produced by the warp, musk and mind tricks they play. Part of the horror of them is having your mind fogged with devious thoughts; with a primal scent that urges you to want them, to desire them.

A haze that makes you see them as you envision beauty to be when in reality they have very alien features.


I'd say the Diaz forms are closer to the musk haze that they project on the living from a human perspective; whilst the current forms are closer to their "true" demonic shapes, at least so much as our minds can resolve without going insane.

(haha, ninja'd by Overread)

Hmm. The point ever since the Realms of Darkness books is that Slaanesh creatures are meant to seem attractive while actually being monstrous - that's a fairly complicated (impossible?) thing to capture in a mini, and I think the current range is doing this quite well. There might be a couple of Kingdom Death minis that pull this off better (I don't mean the NSFW aspects, rather that they're both pretty and horrible) but then KD has a completely different style in general.

In the end, I think the new range is the most convincing attempt on Slaanesh yet - I love ye olde '2000AD meets Hieronymus Bosch meets teenage attempts at Metal covers' style from the RoD books, but it seems the least suitable for Slaanesh, somehow.

The new Slaanesh models look good except for the diorama. I agree with all the comments about it just being a bunch of stuff thrown at a wall to see if anything sticks (result: it doesn't).

There is no coherent theme to the miniature, and the main dude just looks dumb. The peacock lady is the only visually interesting element on the model, and even she is boring except for the peacock eyes.

yukishiro1 wrote:
The new Slaanesh models look good except for the diorama. I agree with all the comments about it just being a bunch of stuff thrown at a wall to see if anything sticks (result: it doesn't).

There is no coherent theme to the miniature, and the main dude just looks dumb. The peacock lady is the only visually interesting element on the model, and even she is boring except for the peacock eyes.

Most of those critiques are objectively wrong though. Why not just say "I don't like the way it looks"? Taste is subjective so it's not like you have to justify it.

Obviously I'm quoting you yukishiro but I mean it as a more general point.

I think the diorama models in general get that "too busy for a warzone" type feel from many. They feel "wrong" especially when 40K and AoS are visually more skirmish games - even with big 2K armies its still more a skirmish than a vast army with thousands of warriors where diorama models would feel more at home.

They are models that would fit into a turn based strategy game like Total War (not real time) where you commanded vast legions - rather than a centre stage model in a small skirmish battle.


I think also some are far too static a pose - Katakross gets that impression of static design; at least the Slaanesh one is mobile by design and thus feels like he can at least practically move around a battlefield (though being a mage I'd wait and see the irony that he likely prefers being at the back of the army )

They are all also very different styles of model from most we get in wargames. I think many are used to quite uniform "units" that appear very visually similar to each other; a uniform style. These units are quite unique and a little odd in that they not only have no unifying design within them, but often have models that don't unify with the rest of the army either.

This isn't a demonette and chosen one standing beside a unique leader; its a team of unique styled models all together. I get that idea that its a "jumble" because in a way it is. Yet at the same time its representing something different; more of the back end of the army. The "support" side of cooks and cleaners and servers and such. Something that in wargames I think only appears in 6-15mm historical games - the waggon trail; the tents; the encampment. Something which in 40K and AoS and Old World is often overlooked and forgotten not just in models but also in the lore and stories.

JSG wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
The new Slaanesh models look good except for the diorama. I agree with all the comments about it just being a bunch of stuff thrown at a wall to see if anything sticks (result: it doesn't).

There is no coherent theme to the miniature, and the main dude just looks dumb. The peacock lady is the only visually interesting element on the model, and even she is boring except for the peacock eyes.

Most of those critiques are objectively wrong though. Why not just say "I don't like the way it looks"? Taste is subjective so it's not like you have to justify it.

Obviously I'm quoting you yukishiro but I mean it as a more general point.

You seem to have contradicted yourself here. If taste is subjective, how are their comments about how the model doesn't work for them "objectively wrong?"

 Overread wrote:
The point with Slaanesh demons at least is that the beauty, as humans understand it, is a glamour. A trick produced by the warp, musk and mind tricks they play. Part of the horror of them is having your mind fogged with devious thoughts; with a primal scent that urges you to want them, to desire them.

A haze that makes you see them as you envision beauty to be when in reality they have very alien features.


I'd say the Diaz forms are closer to the musk haze that they project on the living from a human perspective; whilst the current forms are closer to their "true" demonic shapes, at least so much as our minds can resolve without going insane.

That may be the case but at the end of the day miniatures find their place in a collector's glass cabinet with the exception of hideous designs.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Overread wrote:
The point with Slaanesh demons at least is that the beauty, as humans understand it, is a glamour. A trick produced by the warp, musk and mind tricks they play. Part of the horror of them is having your mind fogged with devious thoughts; with a primal scent that urges you to want them, to desire them.

A haze that makes you see them as you envision beauty to be when in reality they have very alien features.


I'd say the Diaz forms are closer to the musk haze that they project on the living from a human perspective; whilst the current forms are closer to their "true" demonic shapes, at least so much as our minds can resolve without going insane.

That may be the case but at the end of the day miniatures find their place in a collector's glass cabinet with the exception of hideous designs.

Aye but then it comes down to individual taste.

Heck whilst I admit that marines and orks are fine models in their own right I'd never build an army of either for 40K

 Overread wrote:
The point with Slaanesh demons at least is that the beauty, as humans understand it, is a glamour. A trick produced by the warp, musk and mind tricks they play. Part of the horror of them is having your mind fogged with devious thoughts; with a primal scent that urges you to want them, to desire them.

I thought Daemonettes at least were supposed to have a daemonic beauty to start with, and their glamour just made them supernaturally so? Or made their enemies forget everything else.

Regardless, I think the issue is that the current models really don't bring the glamour element across at all. There's literally nothing in the models themselves to suggest that they're using any sort of glamour to appear more beautiful than they actually are. So all we're left with is a bunch of exceptionally ugly models and fluff that says "No, honestly, they appear really beautiful. Trust us, they look enchanting and everything. Pity you can't see it."

Why would they want to appear beautiful on the battlefield? They're not trying to beguile or seduce, they've dropped that to rip your heart out. You know, the glamour has ended.

 vipoid wrote:

 Overread wrote:
The point with Slaanesh demons at least is that the beauty, as humans understand it, is a glamour. A trick produced by the warp, musk and mind tricks they play. Part of the horror of them is having your mind fogged with devious thoughts; with a primal scent that urges you to want them, to desire them.

There's literally nothing in the models themselves to suggest that they're using any sort of glamour to appear more beautiful than they actually are. So all we're left with is a bunch of exceptionally ugly models and fluff that says "No, honestly, they appear really beautiful. Trust us, they look enchanting and everything. Pity you can't see it."

This is my biggest issue with Flesh Eater Courts. They're supposed to believe they're knights and nobles, but literally, none of their range reflects this. Even the newer Underworld teams looks like an average pack of ghouls, with only one "clad" in bone armor. I don't like the sculpts for Daemonettes, but I guess they're okay. They're noticeably female, but where they suffer is a lack of movement. They're not dancing or prancing, all of them have their feet on the ground. If they were a bit more dynamic, then maybe they'd look better.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Why would they want to appear beautiful on the battlefield? They're not trying to beguile or seduce, they've dropped that to rip your heart out. You know, the glamour has ended.

Battle is just another way to experience sensation for Slaanesh followers (and daemons). It would go contrary to their very being if they were like "ok well now it's time to fight, let's get serious and stop it with this glamour nonsense!"

It's also inconsistent with how the models used to be depicted, which is a large part of why people don't like it.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Why would they want to appear beautiful on the battlefield? They're not trying to beguile or seduce, they've dropped that to rip your heart out. You know, the glamour has ended.

For the confusion, the experience, the sensation, of course. Numerous novels and short stories have captured this well- Slaanesh daemons, worshippers and armies are a revel of confusion, beguilement and slaughter on the battlefield.
They don't drop the glamor in battle, they take absolute advantage of it.

GaroRobe wrote:This is my biggest issue with Flesh Eater Courts. They're supposed to believe they're knights and nobles, but literally, none of their range reflects this.

Well...
a) of course not. That's not what those models were designed as, so it isn't a surprise that they don't match the force-fed background. Though the Underworld band doesn't have this excuse.

b) even when they were new, the plastic ghouls were terrible models. They look like mutant orcs (the equivalent of the post-apoc goblins under the mountains in the Hobbit), rather than cannibals lost in their hunger and dark magic. The old metals are still far superior sculpts.


---
Also, woo. Another dead week for releases. Time to scratch off the 16th. Maybe something will actually come out on the 23rd of January?

Yeah. I get that FEC were just repurposed crypt ghouls, but they chose to give them lore that, although cool, doesn't fit the range. And my biggest gripe is with the underworld models, since they did have a chance to reflect the lore.

Off-topic, but wasn't the new store anniversary model supposed to be revealed already? They posted today that we'd see it this week, but I thought they said the same thing LAST week. :/

The FEC lore is cool enough to merit a resculpt. I'd be all in if they had them acting noble dressed in what they think are shining plate and fine robes but are actually flayed flesh and bones.

I never understood their names though. Shouldn't they be more regal than ghoulish?

The Archregent came out in 2019, and given its place at the very top of the nobility pyramid, really should have been a chance for GW to do something interesting. Unfortunately, it looks just like all the other FEC junk.

I don't think any other AOS faction has such a combination of interesting, promising lore and utterly boring, derivative models.

Voss wrote:
Also, woo. Another dead week for releases. Time to scratch off the 16th. Maybe something will actually come out on the 23rd of January?

GW informed us right before Christmas that the first pre-orders for 2021 would be the 16th of January.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/23/an-update-on-warhammer-releases-in-2021/

Yeah FEC has a really cool lore, but doesn't fot at all with the models. Shame that they didnt release new kits for them

The lore for FEC is a catch-all. It is one of the charms of the army and opens up for a lot of conversion opportunity if people are hungry for it.

 GaroRobe wrote:

This is my biggest issue with Flesh Eater Courts. They're supposed to believe they're knights and nobles, but literally, none of their range reflects this. Even the newer Underworld teams looks like an average pack of ghouls, with only one "clad" in bone armor.

It's certainly rather odd that these "knights" attack with claws, rather than held weapons.

My biggest issue with FEC is they haven't done a plastic Varghulf. One of the coolest creatures they have (especially how it looks in total war). I've been hoping for a new kit for years but GW can't be bothered.

All part of their rampant insanity.

Warhammer Horror has a few short stories involving FEC, which I can recommend. Can’t remember exactly which books, but they’re all worth a read.

You can see the knightly themes in the Flesh-eater Courts' terrain and endless spells.

 Thargrim wrote:
My biggest issue with FEC is they haven't done a plastic Varghulf. One of the coolest creatures they have (especially how it looks in total war). I've been hoping for a new kit for years but GW can't be bothered.

I wholeheartedly agree. It's the only resin kit remaining in the entire line and it is kinda pathetic that they haven't decided to switch it out for a plastic one. Have 2 of the resin ones painted and I'd love to have a plastic one.

Surely that’s cost to profit decision.

Hardly “they can't be bothered” to do it.

 vipoid wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

This is my biggest issue with Flesh Eater Courts. They're supposed to believe they're knights and nobles, but literally, none of their range reflects this. Even the newer Underworld teams looks like an average pack of ghouls, with only one "clad" in bone armor.

It's certainly rather odd that these "knights" attack with claws, rather than held weapons.

Its kind of the point - they think they are using weapons even when they don't. Same as the Zombie Dragons etc areglorious steeds of light and beauty etc.

I am sure (hopes) some one has made a FEC army that embodies more of what they believe - maybe?

The stories really read well when you have both sides - esepcially sicne their lovely speeches are usually just growls and roars eg:

https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Atheldade

he is described as

A monstrous white giant clad only in tatters of skin, whose mouth has rows of shark-like teeth usually adorned with chunks of gristle.

and thinks he says the following:

The time of the eternal harvest is upon us. We have won through the time of strife, found the promised era, and all the while we did not forsake our ideals. Not even when times seemed so dark we were rendered blind. Now we see again, and all we need do is feast! Hunt and feast forever more!

but its all just gorwling and roars to those not infected.

Its also fun that they normally see right through Idoneth illusions.

Danny76 wrote:
Surely that’s cost to profit decision.

Hardly “they can't be bothered” to do it.

Kind of?

AoS went through (and isn’t entirely finished with) a period of rationalising existing WHFB stuff into the new setting. Flesh Eater Courts are a good example of this, as their releases (I’m sure they’re on their second book?) have pretty much been the requisite Endless Spells, Terrain piece and a single plastic character, married to a new and evidentially well received and regarded background.

In terms of the rationalisation project, it’s pretty low cost, low risk as few new models are needed. Given FEC captured the imagination out of the gate, I am surprised they didn’t get more resources spent on them, and a plastic Varghulf (model is easily 15 years old) should be high on the list of priorities. It’s a solid unit, with a great background, and an outdated sculpt in a poor material.

From a finance point FEC are terrible for GW right now as almost every model is in the start collecting set. They are a prime candidate for a big update to at least give GW some more profit earners for them.

Taht and I'm sure many FEC players would love variety that isn't just swapping one or two bits on multi-part kits around.