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Marshal Loss wrote: Now we're talking. Haven't used Chosen since 3.5 but hoping that the box is a treasure trove of bitz.
There hasn't exactly been any GW box in a while that was a box of bitz.
The only things that come to mind are the recent kill teams, since the sisters and DKK had so many options. But even that's not on par with the kits of yesteryear. GW sure loves monopose these days. Guess its easier to make
A multipart Chosen kit is inevitably going to be an awesome resource for ornate heads/weapons/pauldrons/etc to use on other CSM models, even if there aren't a lot of spare parts in the box itself. That is what I'm excited for. E.G. the recent Sword Brethren box, as asinine as the weapon limitations are, comes with enough power swords/chainswords/helmets/shields to make it a worthwhile purchase. The Chosen datasheet may well end up being a dumpsterfire but I see no reason not to be excited for the options the box provides.
If the Chosen kit has the same cross-compatibilty with the CSM, Raptors/Warp Talons, and Havocs kits as they have with each other, then I'm hoping they keep their options based on the "if you can get it from another kit, you can have it" approach they took with SoB. If the Chosen kit has a set of combi-weapons with enough bits for every version, then we'll have every current option available between those four kits.
Marshal Loss wrote: The Chosen datasheet may well end up being a dumpsterfire but I see no reason not to be excited for the options the box provides.
FWIW the new GSC Neophyte datasheet is not restricted to the number of bits that come with the kit. You can take two of each extra weapon option despite only getting one of each in the box.
Perhaps that design philosophy is changing for new codexes?
Marshal Loss wrote: The Chosen datasheet may well end up being a dumpsterfire but I see no reason not to be excited for the options the box provides.
FWIW the new GSC Neophyte datasheet is not restricted to the number of bits that come with the kit. You can take two of each extra weapon option despite only getting one of each in the box.
Perhaps that design philosophy is changing for new codexes?
If so, it changed with the GSC+Custodes.
AdMech had their Skitarii Rangers+Vanguard changed to be 1:10 models for one of each special weapon, no ability to duplicate and 1:10 for Omnispex and Data-Tethers.
Ork Kommandos have a similar thing going on IIRC.
Marshal Loss wrote: The Chosen datasheet may well end up being a dumpsterfire but I see no reason not to be excited for the options the box provides.
FWIW the new GSC Neophyte datasheet is not restricted to the number of bits that come with the kit. You can take two of each extra weapon option despite only getting one of each in the box.
Perhaps that design philosophy is changing for new codexes?
If so, it changed with the GSC+Custodes.
AdMech had their Skitarii Rangers+Vanguard changed to be 1:10 models for one of each special weapon, no ability to duplicate and 1:10 for Omnispex and Data-Tethers.
Ork Kommandos have a similar thing going on IIRC.
Well it didn't apply to loyalists. And if it applies to CSM, then basic CSM squads would lose: lascannons, autocannons, chaincannons, and power swords, lightning claws, and combi-weapons for the Aspiring Champion. Never mind what it would do to Chosen and Havocs. That would be crazy.
GaroRobe wrote:I'm more interested in multipart possessed. It would be great if they had arms, heads, etc that could be swapped with havocs, csm, raptors, etc.
Though I can easily see GW making them have bodies that already have arms and legs, in order to make them more dynamic :(
A multi-part Possessed kit would be great for anyone wanting to add some mutated/daemonic bits to our other infantry. I hope it happens.
Marshal Loss wrote: The Chosen datasheet may well end up being a dumpsterfire but I see no reason not to be excited for the options the box provides.
FWIW the new GSC Neophyte datasheet is not restricted to the number of bits that come with the kit. You can take two of each extra weapon option despite only getting one of each in the box.
Perhaps that design philosophy is changing for new codexes?
If so, it changed with the GSC+Custodes.
AdMech had their Skitarii Rangers+Vanguard changed to be 1:10 models for one of each special weapon, no ability to duplicate and 1:10 for Omnispex and Data-Tethers.
Ork Kommandos have a similar thing going on IIRC.
It didn't change, the writers have just been applying it randomly as to which armies get the restrictions and which don't.
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Marshal Loss wrote: The Chosen datasheet may well end up being a dumpsterfire but I see no reason not to be excited for the options the box provides.
FWIW the new GSC Neophyte datasheet is not restricted to the number of bits that come with the kit. You can take two of each extra weapon option despite only getting one of each in the box.
Perhaps that design philosophy is changing for new codexes?
If so, it changed with the GSC+Custodes.
AdMech had their Skitarii Rangers+Vanguard changed to be 1:10 models for one of each special weapon, no ability to duplicate and 1:10 for Omnispex and Data-Tethers.
Ork Kommandos have a similar thing going on IIRC.
It didn't change, the writers have just been applying it randomly as to which armies get the restrictions and which don't.
Wyches are limited to the mix of qych weapons in the box. Kabalites and scourges are not.
Tiberius501 wrote: Why is today’s advent engine not here yet? My patience is that of an alpaca dealing with a noisy kid he wishes not to have to deal with.
Sundays seems to go up with the "what's new next week" vid.
Marshal Loss wrote: The Chosen datasheet may well end up being a dumpsterfire but I see no reason not to be excited for the options the box provides.
FWIW the new GSC Neophyte datasheet is not restricted to the number of bits that come with the kit. You can take two of each extra weapon option despite only getting one of each in the box.
Perhaps that design philosophy is changing for new codexes?
If so, it changed with the GSC+Custodes.
AdMech had their Skitarii Rangers+Vanguard changed to be 1:10 models for one of each special weapon, no ability to duplicate and 1:10 for Omnispex and Data-Tethers.
Ork Kommandos have a similar thing going on IIRC.
It didn't change, the writers have just been applying it randomly as to which armies get the restrictions and which don't.
Neither is better in this case, to use havocs as an example, presented with:
"Why is only 1 chaincannon in the box when I can use 4, money grubbing losers"
or
"Why can I only use 1 chaincannon in a unit, I want to use 4 despite only having 1, stupid writers"
Which is the evil they're supposed to choose?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/12 15:17:54
Tiberius501 wrote: Why is today’s advent engine not here yet? My patience is that of an alpaca dealing with a noisy kid he wishes not to have to deal with.
Sundays seems to go up with the "what's new next week" vid.
Marshal Loss wrote: The Chosen datasheet may well end up being a dumpsterfire but I see no reason not to be excited for the options the box provides.
FWIW the new GSC Neophyte datasheet is not restricted to the number of bits that come with the kit. You can take two of each extra weapon option despite only getting one of each in the box.
Perhaps that design philosophy is changing for new codexes?
If so, it changed with the GSC+Custodes.
AdMech had their Skitarii Rangers+Vanguard changed to be 1:10 models for one of each special weapon, no ability to duplicate and 1:10 for Omnispex and Data-Tethers.
Ork Kommandos have a similar thing going on IIRC.
It didn't change, the writers have just been applying it randomly as to which armies get the restrictions and which don't.
Neither is better in this case, to use havocs as an example, presented with:
"Why is only 1 chaincannon in the box when I can use 4, money grubbing losers"
or
"Why can I only use 1 chaincannon in a unit, I want to use 4 despite only having 1, stupid writers"
Which is the evil they're supposed to choose?
4 chaincannons in a box, duh.
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nou wrote: Just as I feared, a token release for Eldar. I suppose there is no Illic there, no Warp Spiders or Reapers, no Avatar, only Rangers, Ranger bikes and an Autarch with options. Or even no Ranger bikes, only Autarch on a bike.
*Looks at the DE release, which consisted of a pointless Lelith remake Now with fatter thighs! and nothing else.*
Care to trade?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
I’d rather have more open rules where you can build things not in the box.
These new dataslates with the convoluted restrictions so it only allows exactly what’s in the box are crazy. Especially when there is no in-game lore to support it.
For units with a ton of options (devastators, havocs) I think 4-of-everything is a bit much to ask. But just one of something is a bit rough. 2 strikes me as a decent compromise.
Nevelon wrote: I’d rather have more open rules where you can build things not in the box.
These new dataslates with the convoluted restrictions so it only allows exactly what’s in the box are crazy. Especially when there is no in-game lore to support it.
For units with a ton of options (devastators, havocs) I think 4-of-everything is a bit much to ask. But just one of something is a bit rough. 2 strikes me as a decent compromise.
To be fair, we should expect to be able to outfit our minis however we are allowed to. When I bought my box of Raptors or Havocs. I also brought the unit's dataslate. They can put every option in one box. Is it more expensive for them ? Yes. Does it make it a better product ? Yes. Do they have to do it ? Of course not. But they really should. And we should push for it as much as we can. It's in our interest as customers.
Nevelon wrote: I’d rather have more open rules where you can build things not in the box.
These new dataslates with the convoluted restrictions so it only allows exactly what’s in the box are crazy. Especially when there is no in-game lore to support it.
For units with a ton of options (devastators, havocs) I think 4-of-everything is a bit much to ask. But just one of something is a bit rough. 2 strikes me as a decent compromise.
To be fair, we should expect to be able to outfit our minis however we are allowed to. When I bought my box of Raptors or Havocs. I also brought the unit's dataslate. They can put every option in one box. Is it more expensive for them ? Yes. Does it make it a better product ? Yes. Do they have to do it ? Of course not. But they really should. And we should push for it as much as we can. It's in our interest as customers.
Of course, or they can truncate the units options to the max of 2 of each gun. People only feel contrary because of historical precedent and wanting efficiency above anything else.
Nevelon wrote: I’d rather have more open rules where you can build things not in the box.
These new dataslates with the convoluted restrictions so it only allows exactly what’s in the box are crazy. Especially when there is no in-game lore to support it.
For units with a ton of options (devastators, havocs) I think 4-of-everything is a bit much to ask. But just one of something is a bit rough. 2 strikes me as a decent compromise.
To be fair, we should expect to be able to outfit our minis however we are allowed to. When I bought my box of Raptors or Havocs. I also brought the unit's dataslate. They can put every option in one box. Is it more expensive for them ? Yes. Does it make it a better product ? Yes. Do they have to do it ? Of course not. But they really should. And we should push for it as much as we can. It's in our interest as customers.
I’m worried that they will give us what we want (all the options) but because there is now an extra frame in the box jack the price up 50%. I’d rather compromise on affordably.
YMMV. We all have different priorities.
Edit:
Dudeface wrote: Of course, or they can truncate the units options to the max of 2 of each gun. People only feel contrary because of historical precedent and wanting efficiency above anything else.
I always liked my Devs as pairs of similar weapons. Like 2xLC, 2xML. Give up a little efficiency for flexibility. But I’d join the riot if they took away the 4x option.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/12 16:03:27
If you can have 4 of a given weapon? Put them in the bloody box.
We all know that either means more sprues and more expensive box accordingly, or they simply cut the number of weapon options, so your havocs now have 4 chaincannons or 4 lascannons. Ideally a full spread is nice but I was asking which of the 2 scenarios causes the least kickback, whereas you gave the reason for the kickback in the first palce.
You're poor GW book writer Dave McFace, you get given the sprues for new box A and know it has 1 of each special weapon on, you cant make the choice to increase them, you can't remake the box, so you're left with force stupid rules scenario or piss people off with missing options. Poor Dave has a job to do and "make another sprue" isn't it sadly.
Nevelon wrote: I’d rather have more open rules where you can build things not in the box.
These new dataslates with the convoluted restrictions so it only allows exactly what’s in the box are crazy. Especially when there is no in-game lore to support it.
For units with a ton of options (devastators, havocs) I think 4-of-everything is a bit much to ask. But just one of something is a bit rough. 2 strikes me as a decent compromise.
To be fair, we should expect to be able to outfit our minis however we are allowed to. When I bought my box of Raptors or Havocs. I also brought the unit's dataslate. They can put every option in one box. Is it more expensive for them ? Yes. Does it make it a better product ? Yes. Do they have to do it ? Of course not. But they really should. And we should push for it as much as we can. It's in our interest as customers.
Of course, or they can truncate the units options to the max of 2 of each gun. People only feel contrary because of historical precedent and wanting efficiency above anything else.
The reason people feel "contrary" due to "historical precedent" is because a lot of older players already have models with the current options. Telling them that their current models are suddenly illegal can be very "annoying" to those players.
Nevelon wrote: I’d rather have more open rules where you can build things not in the box.
These new dataslates with the convoluted restrictions so it only allows exactly what’s in the box are crazy. Especially when there is no in-game lore to support it.
For units with a ton of options (devastators, havocs) I think 4-of-everything is a bit much to ask. But just one of something is a bit rough. 2 strikes me as a decent compromise.
To be fair, we should expect to be able to outfit our minis however we are allowed to. When I bought my box of Raptors or Havocs. I also brought the unit's dataslate. They can put every option in one box. Is it more expensive for them ? Yes. Does it make it a better product ? Yes. Do they have to do it ? Of course not. But they really should. And we should push for it as much as we can. It's in our interest as customers.
Of course, or they can truncate the units options to the max of 2 of each gun. People only feel contrary because of historical precedent and wanting efficiency above anything else.
The reason people feel "contrary" due to "historical precedent" is because a lot of older players already have models with the current options. Telling them that their current models are suddenly illegal can be very "annoying" to those players.
Not illegal, just can't be used in the same combination.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/12 16:23:00
Nevelon wrote: I’d rather have more open rules where you can build things not in the box.
These new dataslates with the convoluted restrictions so it only allows exactly what’s in the box are crazy. Especially when there is no in-game lore to support it.
For units with a ton of options (devastators, havocs) I think 4-of-everything is a bit much to ask. But just one of something is a bit rough. 2 strikes me as a decent compromise.
To be fair, we should expect to be able to outfit our minis however we are allowed to. When I bought my box of Raptors or Havocs. I also brought the unit's dataslate. They can put every option in one box. Is it more expensive for them ? Yes. Does it make it a better product ? Yes. Do they have to do it ? Of course not. But they really should. And we should push for it as much as we can. It's in our interest as customers.
Of course, or they can truncate the units options to the max of 2 of each gun. People only feel contrary because of historical precedent and wanting efficiency above anything else.
The reason people feel "contrary" due to "historical precedent" is because a lot of older players already have models with the current options. Telling them that their current models are suddenly illegal can be very "annoying" to those players.
Not illegal, just can't be used in the same combination.
Not if it's literally "what's in the box". Again, if that approach is taken with basic CSM they'd lose: lascannons and autocannons, as well as combi-weapons, power swords, chainaxes, and lighting claws for the Aspiring Champions. Not to mention not being able to equip a 10 man squad with all bolters or chainswords + pistols. I honestly can't see them taking that approach with CSM, they'll have to take the one they did with first born loyalists and SoB, I.E.: if you can get it from another kit, you can have it. At least for the power armoured units. Terminators might be a different story.
Nevelon wrote: I’d rather have more open rules where you can build things not in the box.
These new dataslates with the convoluted restrictions so it only allows exactly what’s in the box are crazy. Especially when there is no in-game lore to support it.
For units with a ton of options (devastators, havocs) I think 4-of-everything is a bit much to ask. But just one of something is a bit rough. 2 strikes me as a decent compromise.
To be fair, we should expect to be able to outfit our minis however we are allowed to. When I bought my box of Raptors or Havocs. I also brought the unit's dataslate. They can put every option in one box. Is it more expensive for them ? Yes. Does it make it a better product ? Yes. Do they have to do it ? Of course not. But they really should. And we should push for it as much as we can. It's in our interest as customers.
Of course, or they can truncate the units options to the max of 2 of each gun. People only feel contrary because of historical precedent and wanting efficiency above anything else.
The reason people feel "contrary" due to "historical precedent" is because a lot of older players already have models with the current options. Telling them that their current models are suddenly illegal can be very "annoying" to those players.
Not illegal, just can't be used in the same combination.
Not if it's literally "what's in the box". Again, if that approach is taken with basic CSM they'd lose: lascannons and autocannons, as well as combi-weapons, power swords, chainaxes, and lighting claws for the Aspiring Champions. Not to mention not being able to equip a 10 man squad with all bolters or chainswords + pistols. I honestly can't see them taking that approach with CSM, they'll have to take the one they did with first born loyalists and SoB, I.E.: if you can get it from another kit, you can have it. At least for the power armoured units. Terminators might be a different story.
Inclined to agree, I'm not sure I have a feeling on which way they'll go with chosen yet though. It'll be awkward if chosen are stuck in the same weird loadouts as on boxes, it'll basically just make them a marines bits box unit that's rarely fielded.
Marshal Loss wrote: The Chosen datasheet may well end up being a dumpsterfire but I see no reason not to be excited for the options the box provides.
FWIW the new GSC Neophyte datasheet is not restricted to the number of bits that come with the kit. You can take two of each extra weapon option despite only getting one of each in the box.
Perhaps that design philosophy is changing for new codexes?
If so, it changed with the GSC+Custodes.
AdMech had their Skitarii Rangers+Vanguard changed to be 1:10 models for one of each special weapon, no ability to duplicate and 1:10 for Omnispex and Data-Tethers.
Ork Kommandos have a similar thing going on IIRC.
It didn't change, the writers have just been applying it randomly as to which armies get the restrictions and which don't.
From what I've noted, GW seems to be limiting non-kit weapon options around designed interoperability.
The First Born Marine Kits are mostly designed to work together, so allowing you to use your Devestator weapons on your Tactical Marines is allows. Same thing with the Battle Sisters Box. It's designed to integrate with the Retributor Kit (Multi-melta and Power Maul) and the Seraphim Kit (Inferno Pistol and Hand Flamer). Therefore those are options.
Given the designed interoperability of the Chaos Space Marine and Havok Kits, it is unlikely CSM will lose access to those weapons.
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