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 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Theophony wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
It really reminds me of the Chaos Lord from Dark Vengeance, actually.

1st Chaos Primaris Lt. confirmed

Well
We don't exactly have a generic Chaos Lord mini, don't we? The closest we have is a Black Legion model, recycled from Blackstone Fortress. Everything else is either Resin and legion specific, Resin and ancient, or a Terminator lord.

I wouldn't call that guy "generic". Doesn't look like an Iron Warrior, Alpha Legionaire, or Night Lord to me. He looks obviously "Black Legion", which has been par for the course for CSM models from 6th edition forward. And this reminds me of the guy from page 78 of the 7th edition Black Legion supplement (sorry, can't get the image to post), so more of the same.

He doesn't look Black Legion, he is Black Legion. That's the point Wha-Mu's getting at.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
He doesn't look Black Legion, he is Black Legion. That's the point Wha-Mu's getting at.

I was referring to Kranon. Sorry I wasn't clear.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I was referring to Kranon. Sorry I wasn't clear.

Oh, my bad.

Hm, these are weirdly similar to the claws on many of the Sylvaneth minis, but as GW seems to stick to Eldar vs Chaos for the Advent Engine I'd say Possessed, too.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

I wouldn't call that guy "generic". Doesn't look like an Iron Warrior, Alpha Legionaire, or Night Lord to me. He looks obviously "Black Legion", which has been par for the course for CSM models from 6th edition forward. And this reminds me of the guy from page 78 of the 7th edition Black Legion supplement (sorry, can't get the image to post), so more of the same.

Not sure what made Kranon and the rest of the DV Chaos stuff any more Black Legion-esque than almost any other Legion or Warband, could you elaborate on that?
As far as "Generic Chaos Dudes" go, the range is still that for everything that's not a Daemon Engine. You're not forced to put fleshy mutations or giant Chaos symbols on everything and even if you don't want that for "Your Dudes", the regular Marine range is right there.

 Gert wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

I wouldn't call that guy "generic". Doesn't look like an Iron Warrior, Alpha Legionaire, or Night Lord to me. He looks obviously "Black Legion", which has been par for the course for CSM models from 6th edition forward. And this reminds me of the guy from page 78 of the 7th edition Black Legion supplement (sorry, can't get the image to post), so more of the same.

Not sure what made Kranon and the rest of the DV Chaos stuff any more Black Legion-esque than almost any other Legion or Warband, could you elaborate on that?

All of the "Chaos bling". Iron Warriors are more "practical" and prefer bionics (servo arms, not tentacles). Alpha Legion are going to have a hard time infiltrating anything with horns and mutations popping out everywhere. And Night Lords generally avoid Chaos worship, and wouldn't be covered in Chaos sigils.

As far as "Generic Chaos Dudes" go, the range is still that for everything that's not a Daemon Engine. You're not forced to put fleshy mutations or giant Chaos symbols on everything and even if you don't want that for "Your Dudes", the regular Marine range is right there.

Yes Gert, if you don't want your CSM to look like Black Legion just file off all of the Chaos symbols or use old loyalist models. Much better than just making the models look "generic" in the first place and allowing you to add what you want to, like they did with loyalists.

This looks like a cultist helmet. One of the Blackstone Fortress Escalation cultists has a smaller "bladehorn" in place of an eye.

There are actual pointy ears in the lower part of the image, aren't there?

Reminds me alot of a Dark Eldar Archon, but since it is supposed to be either Craftworld or Chaos, I'm gonna throw "Special Harlequin" into the ring.

Just as food for thought.

a_typical_hero wrote:
There are actual pointy ears in the lower part of the image, aren't there?

Reminds me alot of a Dark Eldar Archon, but since it is supposed to be either Craftworld or Chaos, I'm gonna throw "Special Harlequin" into the ring.

Just as food for thought.

I thought they looked like ears/smaller horns, it doesn't look like a marine helm to me in any way, so if it's a possessed I'd hazard a bare headed one.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

All of the "Chaos bling". Iron Warriors are more "practical" and prefer bionics (servo arms, not tentacles). Alpha Legion are going to have a hard time infiltrating anything with horns and mutations popping out everywhere. And Night Lords generally avoid Chaos worship, and wouldn't be covered in Chaos sigils.

So it fits fine with the Black Legion, Word Bearers, World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Red Corsairs, and a hundred other generic Chaos Warbands? Dunno Gad, seems pretty generic to me. But as a side note, let's take a look at some of those Legions you mentioned.
First up the Iron Warriors.
A description of Warsmith Toramino:
So baroque and covered in Chaos symbols.
An image of Honsou:
Again, baroque but this time not covered in Chaos symbols.
We also have Warsmith Shon'Tu who openly worshipped the Ruinous Powers and made Daemonic pacts, as well as Torvann Lokk who was a devout follower of the Pantheon thanks to a friend from the Word Bearers.

For the Alpha Legion, there are the Warband from Hunt for Voldorious who are explicitly Chaos worshippers, as well as the Warband from Dawn of War (Siiindriiiiii), and the Faithless who fought on Vraks.

We've discussed Night Lords to the death and we both know that they are exactly the same as the above two Legions.

Yes Gert, if you don't want your CSM to look like Black Legion just file off all of the Chaos symbols or use old loyalist models. Much better than just making the models look "generic" in the first place and allowing you to add what you want to, like they did with loyalists.

You can't get any more generic than the current kit without actively removing the parts that make CSM stand out from Imperial Marines. To make them any more generic you'd have to lose the armour edging, fancy helms, spikes, and the smaller Chaos icons on the belts, at which point they're just Imperial Marines. As I have pointed out above, far more Legions/Warbands are Chaosy so that's what the kit is there to represent. I could make a huge list of every single group that worships the Pantheon and it would be much longer than one that contains groups that don't.

 Gert wrote:

Not sure what made Kranon and the rest of the DV Chaos stuff any more Black Legion-esque than almost any other Legion or Warband, could you elaborate on that?
As far as "Generic Chaos Dudes" go, the range is still that for everything that's not a Daemon Engine. You're not forced to put fleshy mutations or giant Chaos symbols on everything and even if you don't want that for "Your Dudes", the regular Marine range is right there.

the existence the black legion's "eight pointed eye of horus" symbol on his shoulder pad, right were marines have their legion/chapter symbol, and one that is moulded into the model.

hes not a generic, "non-denominational" chaos lord, hes physically, on the model level, a black legion lord being sold as a generic lord because they haven't got anything else to sell as such.

xerxeskingofking wrote:
the existence the black legion's "eight pointed eye of horus" symbol on his shoulder pad, right were marines have their legion/chapter symbol, and one that is moulded into the model.

hes not a generic, "non-denominational" chaos lord, hes physically, on the model level, a black legion lord being sold as a generic lord because they haven't got anything else to sell as such.

Kranon was the Chaos Lord released with Dark Vengeance in 6th Edition, not the one currently on sale.

 Gert wrote:

xerxeskingofking wrote:
the existence the black legion's "eight pointed eye of horus" symbol on his shoulder pad, right were marines have their legion/chapter symbol, and one that is moulded into the model.

hes not a generic, "non-denominational" chaos lord, hes physically, on the model level, a black legion lord being sold as a generic lord because they haven't got anything else to sell as such.

Kranon was the Chaos Lord released with Dark Vengeance in 6th Edition, not the one currently on sale.

Spoiler:

You know they're not talking about him, right?

On second thought, it reminds me of this guy, too:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

You know they're not talking about him, right?

Ahem.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

I was referring to Kranon. Sorry I wasn't clear.

@Gert: I was, again, referring to the Kranon model originally. I have very few problems with the CSM, Havocs, and Raptor/Warp Talons kits, and have lots of each. Kranon absolutely looks nothing like that Honsou image, and wouldn't work for a Warpsmith like him. And "baroque" is actually what I like, just not with sigils that aren't optional (so fine on pauldrons, for example). All that stuff on the DV Chosen's bodies? Not so "optional".

We don't agree on this, so there's no point arguing about it again. You like the direction gw has taken for CSM from the 4th edition codex onwards, I don't. We're not going to see eye to eye on that, so let's just agree to disagree.

I agree that the thunder hammer chaos lord obviously is meant to be black legion. He's got the icons, and even the topknot. And yeah, Kranon definitely doesn't have a strong iron warriors vibe, but at least you can convincingly use him for other traitor legions.

Night lords:


Emperor's Children:


I've seen great Alpha Legion Kranons, a very awesome word bearer apostle conversion, etc. It's not universal; it can't really work for world eaters, and definitely not thousand sons and death guard (though the latter is arguable). As long as the helmet isn't leaning too heavily into a certain legion, or there's no iconography, I don't see the issue

This.

Looks like skin under the horns rather than a helmet so I would suspect possessed or similar.

The border is pretty manky now I have to say.

Chaos v Eldar is a good choice, will be interesting.

 Gert wrote:

xerxeskingofking wrote:
the existence the black legion's "eight pointed eye of horus" symbol on his shoulder pad, right were marines have their legion/chapter symbol, and one that is moulded into the model.

hes not a generic, "non-denominational" chaos lord, hes physically, on the model level, a black legion lord being sold as a generic lord because they haven't got anything else to sell as such.

Kranon was the Chaos Lord released with Dark Vengeance in 6th Edition, not the one currently on sale.

Spoiler:

ah, my apologies, i managed to confabulate the two in my mind. I'll get back in my box, now.


on the actaul rumor image, just throwing it out thier, it could be a pair of talons from a clawed hand, either image flipped or a upward facing one (ie the classic "holding the world in my hand" post of the cover of abbadon on codex eye of terror). the fact it only two talons not five doesnt stop this, as, y'know, its a mutation.

out of intrest, has GW ever done a "vs" set that WASN'T "imperium vs some bad guys"? I'll happily admit I'm not a fountain of all things GW as i have just proved, but i cant remember a box set that didnt have one of the factions be at least one flavour of imperials, be it guard, marine, sisters etc.

xerxeskingofking wrote:

 Gert wrote:

xerxeskingofking wrote:
the existence the black legion's "eight pointed eye of horus" symbol on his shoulder pad, right were marines have their legion/chapter symbol, and one that is moulded into the model.

hes not a generic, "non-denominational" chaos lord, hes physically, on the model level, a black legion lord being sold as a generic lord because they haven't got anything else to sell as such.

Kranon was the Chaos Lord released with Dark Vengeance in 6th Edition, not the one currently on sale.

Spoiler:

ah, my apologies, i managed to confabulate the two in my mind. I'll get back in my box, now.


on the actaul rumor image, just throwing it out thier, it could be a pair of talons from a clawed hand, either image flipped or a upward facing one (ie the classic "holding the world in my hand" post of the cover of abbadon on codex eye of terror). the fact it only two talons not five doesnt stop this, as, y'know, its a mutation.

out of intrest, has GW ever done a "vs" set that WASN'T "imperium vs some bad guys"? I'll happily admit I'm not a fountain of all things GW as i have just proved, but i cant remember a box set that didnt have one of the factions be at least one flavour of imperials, be it guard, marine, sisters etc.

There was the craftworld vs. dark eldar with Jain zar and banshees vs. the DE guy and incubi. Plus other units nobody wanted.

 Nevelon wrote:

xerxeskingofking wrote:

 Gert wrote:

xerxeskingofking wrote:
the existence the black legion's "eight pointed eye of horus" symbol on his shoulder pad, right were marines have their legion/chapter symbol, and one that is moulded into the model.

hes not a generic, "non-denominational" chaos lord, hes physically, on the model level, a black legion lord being sold as a generic lord because they haven't got anything else to sell as such.

Kranon was the Chaos Lord released with Dark Vengeance in 6th Edition, not the one currently on sale.

Spoiler:

ah, my apologies, i managed to confabulate the two in my mind. I'll get back in my box, now.


on the actaul rumor image, just throwing it out thier, it could be a pair of talons from a clawed hand, either image flipped or a upward facing one (ie the classic "holding the world in my hand" post of the cover of abbadon on codex eye of terror). the fact it only two talons not five doesnt stop this, as, y'know, its a mutation.

out of intrest, has GW ever done a "vs" set that WASN'T "imperium vs some bad guys"? I'll happily admit I'm not a fountain of all things GW as i have just proved, but i cant remember a box set that didnt have one of the factions be at least one flavour of imperials, be it guard, marine, sisters etc.

There was the craftworld vs. dark eldar with Jain zar and banshees vs. the DE guy and incubi. Plus other units nobody wanted.

Piety and pain as well was daemons vs daemons.

Dudeface wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

xerxeskingofking wrote:

 Gert wrote:

xerxeskingofking wrote:
the existence the black legion's "eight pointed eye of horus" symbol on his shoulder pad, right were marines have their legion/chapter symbol, and one that is moulded into the model.

hes not a generic, "non-denominational" chaos lord, hes physically, on the model level, a black legion lord being sold as a generic lord because they haven't got anything else to sell as such.

Kranon was the Chaos Lord released with Dark Vengeance in 6th Edition, not the one currently on sale.

Spoiler:

ah, my apologies, i managed to confabulate the two in my mind. I'll get back in my box, now.


on the actaul rumor image, just throwing it out thier, it could be a pair of talons from a clawed hand, either image flipped or a upward facing one (ie the classic "holding the world in my hand" post of the cover of abbadon on codex eye of terror). the fact it only two talons not five doesnt stop this, as, y'know, its a mutation.

out of intrest, has GW ever done a "vs" set that WASN'T "imperium vs some bad guys"? I'll happily admit I'm not a fountain of all things GW as i have just proved, but i cant remember a box set that didnt have one of the factions be at least one flavour of imperials, be it guard, marine, sisters etc.

There was the craftworld vs. dark eldar with Jain zar and banshees vs. the DE guy and incubi. Plus other units nobody wanted.

Piety and pain as well was daemons vs daemons.

piety and pain was sisters (an imperial faction) vs dark eldar. not familar with the deamons v deamons set or the eldar vs eldar ones. Agian, not doubting they exist, but ive never heard of them before.

Daemons/Daemons was "Wrath and Rapture", while the Eldar/Dark Eldar one was "Blood of the Phoenix".

BotP was around the start of the Psychic Awakening books during 8th - W&R was a bit earlier, IIRC, but still during 8th (I think).

 Dysartes wrote:
Daemons/Daemons was "Wrath and Rapture", while the Eldar/Dark Eldar one was "Blood of the Phoenix".

BotP was around the start of the Psychic Awakening books during 8th - W&R was a bit earlier, IIRC, but still during 8th (I think).

Ahh thats the one thank you!

xerxeskingofking wrote:


piety and pain was sisters (an imperial faction) vs dark eldar. not familar with the deamons v deamons set or the eldar vs eldar ones. Agian, not doubting they exist, but ive never heard of them before.

Sorry, I got the name wrong as above. Worth noting the ones without the imperium vs someone angle have all sold badly.

Dudeface wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Daemons/Daemons was "Wrath and Rapture", while the Eldar/Dark Eldar one was "Blood of the Phoenix".

BotP was around the start of the Psychic Awakening books during 8th - W&R was a bit earlier, IIRC, but still during 8th (I think).

Ahh thats the one thank you!

xerxeskingofking wrote:


piety and pain was sisters (an imperial faction) vs dark eldar. not familar with the deamons v deamons set or the eldar vs eldar ones. Agian, not doubting they exist, but ive never heard of them before.

Sorry, I got the name wrong as above. Worth noting the ones without the imperium vs someone angle have all sold badly.

Worth noting BotP & W&R also had lackluster contents.

BotP particularly had a premium price & bargain bin contents besides the new models,

which were saddled with Elite pricing on their individual releases.

This box will hopefully be more like Shadowspear. All new models, at the cost of being pushfit.

 GaroRobe wrote:
This box will hopefully be more like Shadowspear. All new models, at the cost of being pushfit.

Rumours seem to indicate 5x new kits (3x Eldar, 2x CSM) as well as 1x old kit (Forgefiend). I don't think this will be a pushfit Shadowspear-style box.

Head looks too small for a marine helmet, so it could be a claw - although the shading is definitely hinting at it pointing upwards.

Is that an eye, or some fleshy part between the horns?