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2021/01/07 04:21:25
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
I've been going over this with a few friends at my local shop and a few of us have come up with some ideas as to what is the best of the current beasticks, that you can build.
Though one did have a good argument for how to build this up, which is where the "general" terminology fits in.
The model can only be a standard HQ. Legends is still going to be allowed, but no mounted models. So that means no bike, disc, juggernauts..etc. And no named characters.
We've also come to the conclusion that you shouldn't have to spend over 1/4 of your points on this one model. So we're looking for something that doesn't exactly cost as much as a LR.
This does still allow for army builds, rules and their unique mechanics to still come into play. But as for counting on how well the model fights, we're looking for a model that is more self reliant and can do it's job without being surrounded by allies.
A few builds popped up from my group. Though they mostly play either chaos, or loyalist space marines and you could probably guess what builds kept cropping up.
-Iron Warriors DP: Running Iron Without & Fleshmetal exoskeleton. Still a little pricy but it's damn well going to survive more than a few rounds.
-Primaris Captain in Gravis armor: Running All flesh is weakness for the FNP and Aegis Ferrum.. (like I said, typical ones would just keep showing up.
However this did have me wondering if I should just gauge the site on what you all thought, or what your ideas would be.
I was thinking of building a Emperors Children Sorcerer in Terminator armor.
So he has Flawless Perfection, topped off with Faultless Duelist and running the Raiment Repulsive relic.
I just like the added benefit of psychic powers on him, even though he's not a real match for most other melee focused HQs.
One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food?
2021/01/07 08:08:54
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
A generic Warboss with relic Da Killa Klaw, trait Brutal but Kunning and pre-game stratagem Da Biggest Boss is a monster for just 80 points.
Slow with only 5'' but decently resilient being T5 7W 4+/4++
He fights with 5A at WS2+ S12 AP-3 Damage3 (4 if charges, charged, heroic intervention) re-rolling to hit and to wound rolls.
Plus generic orks and <klan> bonuses (like exploding 6s in melee, obj sec or +1M +1run +1charge) and his own abilities to buff other models. He might also benefit from the 2CPs stratagem to fight again if he dies in combat. A weirdboy could also give him +2A and +2S (Fists of Gork), plus an additional 1A (Warpath) if he's a warphead.
2021/01/07 08:23:07
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
Depends in what you want. If you want pure killyness plenty but marines can do build that basically can survive almost anything smashing his way. Damage output not as much as others but in return those others won't kill him so 1 on 1 duels he would win anyway.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2021/01/07 08:31:57
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
Deathwatch Captain with jump pack, teeth of terra, warlord trait: imperium's sword, warlord trait: paragon of their chapter (salamanders). 12 inch move with fly, deepstrikes, rerolls charges, 9 attacks on the charge, Str 7 (8 on the charge) with AP -2 (-3 in assault doctrine, which you can select up to three times on turns you expect to benefit from it) and damage 2. Rerolls 1's to wound against a force organization chart choice of your preference selected at start of game. Rerolls 1's to hit against xenos races. T4, 5 wounds, but 3+/4++. Can be given buffs from friendly librarians or chaplains such as a 5+++ (deathwatch psychic power), +1 to wound in melee, +2 to charge distance (litanies.) 110 points and 1 CP.
A chaplain can hit higher strength and damage but with only 6 attacks. Benediction of fury, mantra of strength, anvil of strength, imperium's sword puts you on strength 10, damage 4 when charging. 24 possible damage to the captain's 18, but the captain can kill 9 MEQs where the chaplain only bags 6 max (actual casualties are going to be lower than this, I'm just calculating absolute ceilings)
2021/01/07 08:42:49
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
No more than 3 wounds per phase, and a suite of really quite powerful attacks, plus Living Metal and an Inv save?
Chances of your single beat stick taking him down seems fairly minimal, unless you’ve a decent shooter and some psychic back up, and a chance to do damage in the combat phase.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
If it's value you are after you would be hard pushed to beat a simple Ogryn Bodyguard with a maul ansd brute shield. For 55 points you get T5 6W 4++ save, 4 attacks at WS 3+ S7, -1 ap, D2, extra attack on the charge.
Not the best obviously but cheap enough that you could take 3 of them ;0
No more than 3 wounds per phase, and a suite of really quite powerful attacks, plus Living Metal and an Inv save?
Chances of your single beat stick taking him down seems fairly minimal, unless you’ve a decent shooter and some psychic back up, and a chance to do damage in the combat phase.
In terms of beatstick nightbringer is better vs most having better attacks ignoring inv and damage ignore(including that max 3 per phase). Void dragon is best at vehicle rich enviroment. Nightbringer deletes most stuff.
Not as point efficient thougq
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2021/01/07 09:06:01
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
Cost effectiveness? I vote Iron Warrior Daemon Prince (My legion, hyyyype) with aforementioned relic/ trait.
My personal pick?
Probably the good old standby of Custode shield captain on dawneagle jet bike with about 9000000 strats and relic support. I've seen that dude not only reach his target 100% of the time, but also skewer it very quickly
2021/01/07 11:22:35
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
Cost effectiveness? I vote Iron Warrior Daemon Prince (My legion, hyyyype) with aforementioned relic/ trait.
My personal pick?
Probably the good old standby of Custode shield captain on dawneagle jet bike with about 9000000 strats and relic support. I've seen that dude not only reach his target 100% of the time, but also skewer it very quickly
Yeah I faced that biker shield captain, 3++, 5+++ with lots of other stuff you can give hime on the spot through strats. I was playing nids so he ended up dying to my smites, but him + the 5 alarus popping up near the banner dude certainly gave me a good scare (and killed two of my big giant FW lictors in one turn), but the weird thing was I actually needed more resources to take out the shield captain than the alarus (who only have a 4++).
A shame Custodes end up losing on objectives to an army like nids with board control + 3 dimachaerons if both players know what they are doing.
Custodes shield captain on dawneagle jet bike is not the killest thing around, it doesn't have any psychic power, but that dude is fast, is resilient AF, has decent shooting options.
CTans are not HQ choices so they are irrelevant to the topic (unless I read the topic wrong) ? Otherwise I say dimachaeron is the best beatstick, on par with slaneesh Keeper of Secrets probably
I think Ghaz is pretty strong too, but the fact that you can't take the biggest boss on another big boss if you field him, pulls him out of any competition for anything really.
What does the Iron Warrior Daemon Prince do Gir Spirit Bane ? Never played against that dude
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/07 11:23:29
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
2021/01/07 11:44:21
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
The nightbringer is be far the strongest melee character in the game, but he is not HQ and a special character, so he doesn't count as per OPs question.
As has been mentioned the toughest generic HQ is a custodes shield captain on dawneagle jetbike. You can give him a 3++ and a 5+++ with a relic and warlord trait and you can pump him to 9wounds with a captain commander trait. You can also give him victor of the blood games for 2CP so he can re-roll a save (amongst oder things) each turn for free.
This guy can be killed, especially with smite spam, but he can tank a LOT and is no slouch in combat either with 5 attacks at S6, AP-3 and re-rolling all wounds on the charge.
A warboss with killa klaw and +1dmg warlord trait is killer than the shield captain, but I think the dawneagle captain is the better overall beatstick
Another contender is a harlequin troupe master with the twilight fang relic, fractal storm warlord trait and darkness bite pivotal role. You basically have an absolute murder clown with up to 10 attacks (based on the battle round) hitting on 2+ S5 AP-3 and flat 2dmg who re-roll all wounds and does 2 mortal wounds in addition every time he fights for free. Oh and he also has a 3++ in combat.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/07 11:46:31
2021/01/07 13:02:42
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
Vertus Captains are pretty tough, although I don't know how they stand up against the newer ones such as the Killa Klaw Warboss:
For less than 200pts you get a S6 T6 W6 character with a 12" move and either a Hurricane Bolter or a melta-stat weapon that rerolls wounds against vehicles.
In combat he hits on 2's, S6 rerolling wounds on the charge, Ap-3 and D3 damage. For extra survivability he has a 3+ Invulnerable, and can take various strats to reroll one hit, wound and save per turn, and a 5+ FNP roll.
2021/01/07 13:26:10
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
I don't know what you mean by "not LR costed" but the Nightbringer and Void Dragon are mentioned so...
an Exalted Keeper of Secrets with the Bewitching Aura warlord trait would probably be my vote. -14" base move - Can advance and charge (32" threat range unbuffed) - 10 attacks - hits on 2s - wounding no worse than 3+s against most non-vehicle targets - rerolling 1s to wound. - -3 Rend - 3 flat damage
Furthermore, part of he reason she's such a fantastic beatstick are all of her counter-melee abilities - She always strikes first - She reduces enemy attacks within 3" by 2 - She's -1 to-hit in Melee - Invulnerable save buffable to a 4++, shutting down many few-but-damaging melee attackers
And that's without any Exalted bonuses, some of which are: - Exploding 6s - 4++ gamelong instead of spending CP - +1 to run and charge (+2 total on a turn she wants to move) - +2" base move (exists at the same time as the above sometimes; in combo this gives her a 36" threat range)
Furthermore, she's in an army that synergizes very well with her skillset: - Multiple fast units to join her in a overwhelming wave, rather than her having to run off alone - Relics that shut down enemy characters (I've killed the Nightbringer without letting him swing after he charged me on his own turn). - More than one tool to prevent the enemy from falling back (making her immune to shooting)
Other highlights: - 16 wounds is damn near the best wound stat in the game - 18 or higher and terrain stops mattering. 16 has enough to reliably take 4d6 worth damage without dying, but not enough that the enemy can ignore terrain against her. - Heals when she kills stuff in combat, giving her a regeneration ability that keys off of what you were doing anyways (and is a good bit more powerful than 1/turn, considering it's d3 and can happen in both player turns). - Is a psyker, with access to powers such as a Feel No Pain, Fight-Again-In-Psychic-Phase, and of course the ever-loved mortal wound generation from Smite and Cacophonic Choir/Phantasmagoria wombo-combo. The psychic abilities are what helped me kill the Nightbringer without it swinging at her.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2021/01/07 14:10:52
2021/01/07 14:31:28
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
Unit1126PLL wrote: I don't know what you mean by "not LR costed" but the Nightbringer and Void Dragon are mentioned so...
an Exalted Keeper of Secrets with the Bewitching Aura warlord trait would probably be my vote.
-14" base move
- Can advance and charge (32" threat range unbuffed)
[...]
- Is a psyker, with access to powers such as a Feel No Pain, Fight-Again-In-Psychic-Phase, and of course the ever-loved mortal wound generation from Smite and Cacophonic Choir/Phantasmagoria wombo-combo. The psychic abilities are what helped me kill the Nightbringer without it swinging at her.
Yep you get my vote. I mentioned the KoS in my post, without even knowing half of these shenanigans. Undeniably the best (in the HQ as well non HQ slots) beatstick currently. Now if only it she could fly (but even without fly, so much movement !!).
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
2021/01/07 15:48:16
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
130 Points. Standard marine captain stat-line with 12" movement (not super impressive, but not terrible).
Blood Angels Captain with an Iron Halo & Jump Pack, armed with a thunder hammer & inferno pistol.
Warlord Trait: Artisan of War, giving him artificer armor for a 2+ armor save, and the 4++ invulnerable save.
Second Warlord Trait: The Emperor's Sword, +1 attack and Strength, rerolling charges.
Relic: Hammer of Baal (Thunder Hammer with AP:3 and no -1 to hit penalty)
On the charge he has 6 attacks (7 if in assault doctrine), hitting on 2's, wounding anything T:8 or lower on 2's as well, doing 3 damage per hit at AP:-3. That's 18 potential damage, or 21 potential damage in assault doctrine.
If you upgrade to Death Company, it adds another attack & the 6+++ FNP, though you lose the main warlord trait since death company captains cannot be your army warlord. (I'd keep Emperor's Sword of the two WL traits.) Plus it unlocks the Death Visions rules which are pretty nutty in specific circumstances.
You could also give him a storm shield mixed in for the 2+ save with +1 from the shield, but I'd rather go with the free pistol upgrade and have the 2+/4++ for no additional points.
That's my submission. Thanks, and take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.
2021/01/07 16:25:01
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
PaddyMick wrote: If it's value you are after you would be hard pushed to beat a simple Ogryn Bodyguard with a maul ansd brute shield. For 55 points you get T5 6W 4++ save, 4 attacks at WS 3+ S7, -1 ap, D2, extra attack on the charge.
Not the best obviously but cheap enough that you could take 3 of them ;0
That right there I actually like. It seems more unconventional than one would normally expect anyways. But at that point, if you take three of them. You'd be breaching terminator squad investment levels. At least comparable to some of the more standard squads.
Though I could see someone taking IG, running 3 comparatively cheap HQs. Because that's one of the few armies that you can get away with not having to invest to such an insane degree on your buffer. And plop one bodyguard down with each. Though you'd most likely drop one for Nork in that same instance.
I don't know what you mean by "not LR costed" but the Nightbringer and Void Dragon are mentioned so...
an Exalted Keeper of Secrets with the Bewitching Aura warlord trait would probably be my vote.
-14" base move
- Can advance and charge (32" threat range unbuffed)
- 10 attacks
- hits on 2s
- wounding no worse than 3+s against most non-vehicle targets
- rerolling 1s to wound.
- -3 Rend
- 3 flat damage
Furthermore, part of he reason she's such a fantastic beatstick are all of her counter-melee abilities
- She always strikes first
- She reduces enemy attacks within 3" by 2
- She's -1 to-hit in Melee
- Invulnerable save buffable to a 4++, shutting down many few-but-damaging melee attackers
And that's without any Exalted bonuses, some of which are:
- Exploding 6s
- 4++ gamelong instead of spending CP - +1 to run and charge (+2 total on a turn she wants to move)
- +2" base move (exists at the same time as the above sometimes; in combo this gives her a 36" threat range)
Furthermore, she's in an army that synergizes very well with her skillset:
- Multiple fast units to join her in a overwhelming wave, rather than her having to run off alone
- Relics that shut down enemy characters (I've killed the Nightbringer without letting him swing after he charged me on his own turn).
- More than one tool to prevent the enemy from falling back (making her immune to shooting)
Other highlights:
- 16 wounds is damn near the best wound stat in the game - 18 or higher and terrain stops mattering. 16 has enough to reliably take 4d6 worth damage without dying, but not enough that the enemy can ignore terrain against her.
- Heals when she kills stuff in combat, giving her a regeneration ability that keys off of what you were doing anyways (and is a good bit more powerful than 1/turn, considering it's d3 and can happen in both player turns).
- Is a psyker, with access to powers such as a Feel No Pain, Fight-Again-In-Psychic-Phase, and of course the ever-loved mortal wound generation from Smite and Cacophonic Choir/Phantasmagoria wombo-combo. The psychic abilities are what helped me kill the Nightbringer without it swinging at her
.
It basically boils down to a beat stick, that fits a certain budget. Because a Land Raider, depending on the army/chapter, can cost as much as 275points to field and that's just a ballpark given the amount of adjustments that we've seen over the years.
As for the exalted KoS. I've seen only two played since the rules for that model were brought in. Aside from the model being a bit on the expensive side, it's no real issue. Though rolling for abilities has never really been a kind factor in the past. At least not for me. I'm the guy that always rolls for going full spawn whenever the boon trait gets activated.
I do really like the load out options. It's too bad that you can't take more than a few of these options.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jaredb wrote: A Harlequin Troupe Master, with Twilight fang and Darkness Bite can be a pretty decent assassin character. Very fast and maneuverable too.
Harlequins are very nice with the last few changes. I'm just a little surprised to see that not many options exist for beat stick variations.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ERJAK wrote: Bloody rose canoness with Beneficence and righteous rage.
8 attacks S5 AP-3 2 damage, 2s rerolling, rerolling to wounds, exploding sixes in an SoB army. 50pts.
Point for point you literally can't do better.
Miracle dice sounds nice to.
Though I kind of wish she was treated better for her war gear options. I would love to see her get a eviscerater, or something along that line.
I've only played against two SoB armies as of yet and I do know that one of them runs this build for his front line Canoness. He also takes the Brazier for those extra mortal wounds.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/01/08 02:10:52
One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food?
2021/01/08 16:17:16
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
I don't know what you mean by "not LR costed" but the Nightbringer and Void Dragon are mentioned so...
an Exalted Keeper of Secrets with the Bewitching Aura warlord trait would probably be my vote.
-14" base move
- Can advance and charge (32" threat range unbuffed)
- 10 attacks
- hits on 2s
- wounding no worse than 3+s against most non-vehicle targets
- rerolling 1s to wound.
- -3 Rend
- 3 flat damage
Furthermore, part of he reason she's such a fantastic beatstick are all of her counter-melee abilities
- She always strikes first
- She reduces enemy attacks within 3" by 2
- She's -1 to-hit in Melee
- Invulnerable save buffable to a 4++, shutting down many few-but-damaging melee attackers
And that's without any Exalted bonuses, some of which are:
- Exploding 6s
- 4++ gamelong instead of spending CP - +1 to run and charge (+2 total on a turn she wants to move)
- +2" base move (exists at the same time as the above sometimes; in combo this gives her a 36" threat range)
Furthermore, she's in an army that synergizes very well with her skillset:
- Multiple fast units to join her in a overwhelming wave, rather than her having to run off alone
- Relics that shut down enemy characters (I've killed the Nightbringer without letting him swing after he charged me on his own turn).
- More than one tool to prevent the enemy from falling back (making her immune to shooting)
Other highlights:
- 16 wounds is damn near the best wound stat in the game - 18 or higher and terrain stops mattering. 16 has enough to reliably take 4d6 worth damage without dying, but not enough that the enemy can ignore terrain against her.
- Heals when she kills stuff in combat, giving her a regeneration ability that keys off of what you were doing anyways (and is a good bit more powerful than 1/turn, considering it's d3 and can happen in both player turns).
- Is a psyker, with access to powers such as a Feel No Pain, Fight-Again-In-Psychic-Phase, and of course the ever-loved mortal wound generation from Smite and Cacophonic Choir/Phantasmagoria wombo-combo. The psychic abilities are what helped me kill the Nightbringer without it swinging at her
.
It basically boils down to a beat stick, that fits a certain budget. Because a Land Raider, depending on the army/chapter, can cost as much as 275points to field and that's just a ballpark given the amount of adjustments that we've seen over the years.
As for the exalted KoS. I've seen only two played since the rules for that model were brought in. Aside from the model being a bit on the expensive side, it's no real issue. Though rolling for abilities has never really been a kind factor in the past. At least not for me. I'm the guy that always rolls for going full spawn whenever the boon trait gets activated.
I do really like the load out options. It's too bad that you can't take more than a few of these options.
The Keeper is about 50 points cheaper than a Land Raider by that reckoning; you can see it in the new Munitorum Field Manual.
You don't have to roll for the abilities. You get 2, if you do, so higher chance of getting something you want, but you can also just choose which 1 you want. They're all pretty darn good, though, so I always roll. They are:
1) Add 2" to the model's move characteristic and +1 to advance and +1 to charge. Pretty awesome.
2) 4+ invuln
3) -1 to be wounded by shooting attacks (-1 to-wound is rare so this is very valuable). This makes keepers immune to strength 3 or below, and makes anything strength 6 or below wound on 6s.
4) Exploding 6s.
5) You heal when enemy units in 6" lose a model to morale (meh) AND get to make a free out-of-phase Normal Move as long as you end closer to the enemy unit that failed the check. This can be ridiculous on the correct Keeper, as you can lock the enemy in with fiends somewehre else on the board, then they play their turn, then at the end of their turn make them fail a morale check with the Fiend's stratagem for -2 leadership. This earns the keeper of secrets 14" of free movement, the amount of space on the board that is "closer to the unit than you are now" that is also 14" away is pretty huge. You can go almost anywhere along the front, if you started on the opposite flank, for example. And you can do it just in time for you to move again on your own turn.
6) Heroic Intervention 6", and consolidated d3+3". This is huge. This means the enemy cannot end their move within 6" of the keeper in their own turn, or the keeper will pile into them and get a free round of fighting, going first. Plonk the keeper somewhere you want to deny the enemy, and they either have to kill it or charge it or else it will control that space.
2021/01/08 16:35:19
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
Does a Custodes SC with Sword and Shield do it for you? That's a S5/T5 6W with a 1+3++(+1 to the roll) with a 5+++(Sup Creation) and 5-14 attacks depending on wounds left, and proximity to obectives/characters. Attacks are S5 AP3 Dd3. For 112 points, re-rolling hit rolls of 1. Hard to move, kill, or not be killed by.
2021/01/12 11:07:50
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
AnomanderRake wrote: No mounts seems like an odd restriction if you're also going to allow monsters.
Yes, in hindsight I should've allowed it. Though monsters didn't come up with my original group as we were talking shop.
Unfortunately for most, you'd see some rather large restrictions put up on a character if they take a mount. Because bikes can't exactly take the same armor and relics, at least not 100% of the time. And you'd also find some hilariously broken combinations in that same measure.
At least you can't do some of the really old broken cheese with these guys. Like stealth on a bike mounted terminator.
One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food?
2021/01/12 12:14:05
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
If mounted characters are allowed FW biker boss is hands down better than standard footslogging one. Combined with Da Biggest Boss (pre game strat), Brutal But Kunning (warlord trait) and Da Killa Klaw (relic) it becomes:
M14'' T7 8W 4+/4++ with 6A at S12 AP-3 Damage 3 or flat 4 if charges, charged, heroic intervention, WS2+ re-rolling all failed hits and wound rolls. Basically as killy as Ghazghkull himself, but more mobile and actually tougher as he can't be targeted if Look Out Sire's conditions apply.
115 points (and 1 CP) in total.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/12 12:17:42
2021/01/15 11:16:39
Subject: What is the best general beatstick in the game? (9th ed)
Blackie wrote: If mounted characters are allowed FW biker boss is hands down better than standard footslogging one. Combined with Da Biggest Boss (pre game strat), Brutal But Kunning (warlord trait) and Da Killa Klaw (relic) it becomes:
M14'' T7 8W 4+/4++ with 6A at S12 AP-3 Damage 3 or flat 4 if charges, charged, heroic intervention, WS2+ re-rolling all failed hits and wound rolls. Basically as killy as Ghazghkull himself, but more mobile and actually tougher as he can't be targeted if Look Out Sire's conditions apply.
115 points (and 1 CP) in total.
I've actually seen one of those killed by a Vindicare's headshot rule, in one turn. It's obvious that the dice gods were with him when he rolled those dice.
Really wish mine could do that.
One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food?
Wolfspear's 2k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
(but even without fly, so much movement !!).
