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2021/01/20 21:55:27
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
I don't give a F. I'm not concerned with fighting the great eeevil of GW. Never have been. I just play the games I enjoy, for the most part with the people I enjoy playing games with. Some of those games, be they GW stuff or something else, just happen to occur at the local shop for convenience. If some one sees us playing a game there, having fun, & is inspired to join? Great. The more gamers, the better.
than there is no reason to complain anyway
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2021/01/20 22:01:07
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
Also, WYSIWYG isnt a rule so you don't even NEED to convert your minis.
Yeah, but there's a reason it's in effect for all tournaments (including GW's own tournaments). Playing without WYSIWYG is a nightmare with mixed loadouts. It's one thing if it's "every dude in this squad has a plasma gun even though they all are modeled with bolters," but it just doesn't work to say "this DG guy has a plasma gun but he really has a flail but this other guy with a plasma gun does have a plasma gun, this guy with a bolter actually has a sword, this guy with the bolter has a knife, this one has..."
thats not the case. Tournaments usually just want your model's weapons to be easily identifiable. "all my special weapons are actually plasma" "the banner guy has a flail" or "the whole squad has bolters and knifes" are all valid ways to play.
Right...and this is a thread about how they're turned a datasheet into a nightmare in a way that doesn't allow you to say "all my special weapons are actually plasma" or whatever. There's no practical way to proxy your way out of the issue.
yeah, and i was adding onto NinthMusketeer saying that GW needs to relax on the "rules must match kits exactly" trend.
2021/01/20 23:25:05
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
I don't give a F. I'm not concerned with fighting the great eeevil of GW. Never have been. I just play the games I enjoy, for the most part with the people I enjoy playing games with. Some of those games, be they GW stuff or something else, just happen to occur at the local shop for convenience. If some one sees us playing a game there, having fun, & is inspired to join? Great. The more gamers, the better.
than there is no reason to complain anyway
Man it is weird to see a warhammer doomer.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/20 23:25:51
2021/01/20 23:40:25
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
kodos wrote: I see no reason to play 9th with what happend to Wolves as I am not in the mood to re-work every single unit I have to get a playable list
I play wolves but didn't get the book, what all happened with their loadout options ? If I can bother you to lay it out there for me.
2021/01/21 03:36:08
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
This is not a good way to fix anything. If a loadout is OP adjust the cost. If it is disadvantageous for out of the box players vs converters, sell official upgrade packs or spare sprues. Mixed weapon squads are not particularly good at any one thing, so if you end up mostly splitting fire, why bother with squads at all. As for individual loadouts that get invalidated, how about a issuing a not for matched play datasheet for those combinations as it would not effect completive meta and a fluffy last edition army can be left intact.
2021/01/21 03:48:27
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
kodos wrote: I see no reason to play 9th with what happend to Wolves as I am not in the mood to re-work every single unit I have to get a playable list
I play wolves but didn't get the book, what all happened with their loadout options ? If I can bother you to lay it out there for me.
Something happened to their Scouts is all I really know
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2021/01/21 03:57:25
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
stratigo wrote: Decent what? He's a condescending, dismissive, and regularly insults people. More than what is standard for the pretty salty nature of Dakkadakka.
I disagree with your assessment, but I hear you. Like I said - I'll try to do better and I'll bow out of discussions if it looks like people are reacting negatively to my ideas.
Four years of insanity was lifted from my shoulders today so maybe I'll be more successful at tempering my approach.
2021/01/21 04:00:08
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
stratigo wrote: Decent what? He's a condescending, dismissive, and regularly insults people. More than what is standard for the pretty salty nature of Dakkadakka.
I disagree with your assessment, but I hear you. Like I said - I'll try to do better and I'll bow out of discussions if it looks like people are reacting negatively to my ideas.
Four years of insanity was lifted from my shoulders today so maybe I'll be more successful at tempering my approach.
If you're referring to what I HOPE you're referring to, good riddance is my overall stance. Healthcare has been a fething nightmare the whole year and I'm willing to blame my COVID diagnosis on him.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2021/01/21 04:02:00
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
stratigo wrote: Decent what? He's a condescending, dismissive, and regularly insults people. More than what is standard for the pretty salty nature of Dakkadakka.
I disagree with your assessment, but I hear you. Like I said - I'll try to do better and I'll bow out of discussions if it looks like people are reacting negatively to my ideas.
Four years of insanity was lifted from my shoulders today so maybe I'll be more successful at tempering my approach.
If you're referring to what I HOPE you're referring to, good riddance is my overall stance. Healthcare has been a fething nightmare the whole year and I'm willing to blame my COVID diagnosis on him.
Yessir. I really hope you recover well and your family stays healthy.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/01/21 04:02:41
2021/01/21 04:02:56
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
stratigo wrote: Decent what? He's a condescending, dismissive, and regularly insults people. More than what is standard for the pretty salty nature of Dakkadakka.
I disagree with your assessment, but I hear you. Like I said - I'll try to do better and I'll bow out of discussions if it looks like people are reacting negatively to my ideas.
Four years of insanity was lifted from my shoulders today so maybe I'll be more successful at tempering my approach.
If you're referring to what I HOPE you're referring to, good riddance is my overall stance. Healthcare has been a fething nightmare the whole year and I'm willing to blame my COVID diagnosis on him.
Yessir. I really hope you recover well and your family stay healthy.
Tried to, but I almost ended up in the hospital. He can rot for all I care.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2021/01/21 04:04:34
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
Hiseadmose wrote: This is not a good way to fix anything. If a loadout is OP adjust the cost. If it is disadvantageous for out of the box players vs converters, sell official upgrade packs or spare sprues. Mixed weapon squads are not particularly good at any one thing, so if you end up mostly splitting fire, why bother with squads at all. As for individual loadouts that get invalidated, how about a issuing a not for matched play datasheet for those combinations as it would not effect completive meta and a fluffy last edition army can be left intact.
You don't need a separate datasheet, you and the person you're playing with, agree that it's OK as long as you pay points....done, no involvement from GW(less chance they feth up)
E.g.
If you turn up to play against me and have the "currently illegal loadout"(whatever the feth that means), I'll ask did you pay the appropriate points?
If yes, then Bueno.
If no, then we can talk about it and figure out what's amicable.
And if we can't come to an agreement, no sweat. I'll just never entertain playing with you again. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/01/21 04:09:09
2021/01/21 04:12:01
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
kodos wrote: I see no reason to play 9th with what happend to Wolves as I am not in the mood to re-work every single unit I have to get a playable list
I play wolves but didn't get the book, what all happened with their loadout options ? If I can bother you to lay it out there for me.
It's rather simple. There are no Wolf Scouts. There are now Space Wolves Scouts. The same scouts as for all the other Space Marine chapters.
2021/01/21 04:28:54
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
Hiseadmose wrote: This is not a good way to fix anything. If a loadout is OP adjust the cost. If it is disadvantageous for out of the box players vs converters, sell official upgrade packs or spare sprues. Mixed weapon squads are not particularly good at any one thing, so if you end up mostly splitting fire, why bother with squads at all. As for individual loadouts that get invalidated, how about a issuing a not for matched play datasheet for those combinations as it would not effect completive meta and a fluffy last edition army can be left intact.
You don't need a separate datasheet, you and the person you're playing with, agree that it's OK as long as you pay points....done, no involvement from GW(less chance they feth up)
E.g.
If you turn up to play against me and have the "currently illegal loadout"(whatever the feth that means), I'll ask did you pay the appropriate points?
If yes, then Bueno.
If no, then we can talk about it and figure out what's amicable.
And if we can't come to an agreement, no sweat. I'll just never entertain playing with you again. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy
I appreciate your civility. I would like to see GW encourage such behavior. It would help with running OOP models that can longer be equipped with the gear and weapons they are modeled with and enhance the RPG aspect by letting your dudes buy upgrades or gear that may not be in the codex, should your opponent approve. Having standardized cost for these options will speed the figuring out what is amicable down too would you like these priced as modeled or counts as stock.
2021/01/21 04:36:01
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
AngryAngel80 wrote: Well they weren't dumb until they began to lose every single thing that made them vets over like 3 codex drops.
I don't even think they had Vet stats ever though did they? It basically just made them Scouts with overall equal deployment option but with access to Special Weapons. That's pretty meh as a specialty.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2021/01/21 05:50:27
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
Well there was the time that scouts lost their BS and went down to hitting on 4s in CC and shooting remember ? So their states were it then and the wolf scouts had behind enemy lines which was pretty good and a unique thing for them as well as unique weapon load outs.
Was some other stuff but they kept phasing them out book after book to take away their flavor and point.
Figures, I actually liked them,
2021/01/21 06:49:57
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
I don't give a F. I'm not concerned with fighting the great eeevil of GW. Never have been. I just play the games I enjoy, for the most part with the people I enjoy playing games with. Some of those games, be they GW stuff or something else, just happen to occur at the local shop for convenience. If some one sees us playing a game there, having fun, & is inspired to join? Great. The more gamers, the better.
than there is no reason to complain anyway
Complaints not mine, it's yours. You're the one who sees problems in playing/buying GW stuff....
2021/01/21 07:08:35
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
It never gets old when people who are all happy, feel the need to complain about complaining as if they were pulled into the thread and told to read it and comment of how much they don't feel need to complain.
Though I think most who find issue with it have commented, and sent word to GW as I have. Those that felt it was ok also said their words to why it wasn't as bad as it could be. I don't see how saying. " Hey, I'm fine, doesn't matter to me. " Adds really anything aside from trying to voice how above the topic they are, within said topic.
Someone please, enlighten me.
2021/01/21 07:31:10
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
AngryAngel80 wrote: Well they weren't dumb until they began to lose every single thing that made them vets over like 3 codex drops.
I don't even think they had Vet stats ever though did they? It basically just made them Scouts with overall equal deployment option but with access to Special Weapons. That's pretty meh as a specialty.
they had Vet stats until mid 5th
by that time other Scouts went up from a 3s to 4s in their profile and SW Scouts lost their Special stuff one by the time until now
Original loadout with the new Codex in 5th for me was 2 units with 7 Scouts, 2 with Power Swords, 1 with Melter, 1 with Kombimelter and Power Fist and 3 with CC weapons
and the Box is still the same as the Scouts bits are part of the SW frame that was meant to be combined with the different Boxes (1 frame had bits to turn 1 Scout, 1 Tactical and 1 Devastor Box into SW) and is still the same
I don't give a F. I'm not concerned with fighting the great eeevil of GW. Never have been. I just play the games I enjoy, for the most part with the people I enjoy playing games with. Some of those games, be they GW stuff or something else, just happen to occur at the local shop for convenience. If some one sees us playing a game there, having fun, & is inspired to join? Great. The more gamers, the better.
than there is no reason to complain anyway
Complaints not mine, it's yours. You're the one who sees problems in playing/buying GW stuff....
I just see a problem of playing/buying GW stuff at the same time one gets crazy about unit entry change in a new Codex
Would be something if this was the first time overall, but just because it is the first time since DG have their own Codex (it is not that their loadout changed not in the past as part of Codex CSM) now acting like it never happend before is weird
I my opinion here is, if this is now such a big dealbreaker, stop playing/buying is the way to go
otherwise, if you still play/buy and have fun it is not a big deal anyway (so stop complaining)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/01/21 07:33:32
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2021/01/21 07:55:49
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
kodos wrote: I see no reason to play 9th with what happend to Wolves as I am not in the mood to re-work every single unit I have to get a playable list
I don't get this. SW didn't lose anything, actually they gained access to tons of new stuff. In fact even 5th edition lists are still playable and they're not even bad!!! I'm having a lot of fun with my firstborn SW as I can really field whatever I want as the codex is extremely strong but none of the nasty stuff comes from old units. Only a few mounted characters migrated to Legends, but that's before 9th, and scouts I think are different now. Thankfully all my mounted models are magnetized so I didn't lose anything.
What units do you need to re-work?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/21 07:57:07
2021/01/21 08:12:53
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
Lord knows i had my fair share of issues with some of his opinions in the past but he is always decent.
Decent what? He's a condescending, dismissive, and regularly insults people. More than what is standard for the pretty salty nature of Dakkadakka.
the former two are accurate, especially some defenses of him i found that way. But insulting? Daedalus? Maybee something get's lost in translation here but that i feel is not true.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
yukishiro1 wrote: When you keep going after someone who raised his hand and said sorry for getting carried away, he's not the one who comes off looking bad.
And this is especially true.
EDIT: Regardless, i find the cut of equipment for the sake of facilitating new buy ins , and this is what this is, frankly disgusting. I was willing to look over some of the glaring issues of typos within the free pts update, i even gave them credit for it, and with them i mean gw. But it's damn hard to not laugh out loud when someone says they changed for the better just because they now "interact " on social media when you see stuff like this.
But then maybee i am double burnt from GW and seriously doubt their abilities unfairly, but then i pick up a translated codex and start laughing again.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/01/21 08:20:50
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2021/01/21 08:17:48
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
the Codex is stronger and has more options than ever
but the units I have are build in a way that does not fit the current options/loadouts and I need to exchange models or add more to a unit to play
(and I was running a Scout heavy list)
it is not a big deal and would be easy to get along (as it was the same in the past with each new Codex) but this time I decided that it is not worth it any more
spend money and time to get 1 or 2 games before it changes again (without a pandemic it might have been different as we would I have a large event near my hometown which I would have joined to support the guys doing it)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/21 08:18:38
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2021/01/21 12:41:15
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
stratigo wrote: Decent what? He's a condescending, dismissive, and regularly insults people. More than what is standard for the pretty salty nature of Dakkadakka.
I disagree with your assessment, but I hear you. Like I said - I'll try to do better and I'll bow out of discussions if it looks like people are reacting negatively to my ideas.
Four years of insanity was lifted from my shoulders today so maybe I'll be more successful at tempering my approach.
As someone old enough to remember Dial Up Internet, BBS systems (yes I know the S stands for system shush) and the heydey of IRC, It's a hearty chuckle when people think Dakka is in any way toxic. It's a hugbox by any other name.
But on topic: I can't wait to see the rage when they restrict the amount of Chaincannons Havocs can take, as it needed multiple boxes to get enough.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/21 12:41:54
2021/01/21 13:03:57
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
Not sure BCB, i doubt you'd see much rage, due to how many players just converted them... as it stands i know not one chaos player that has decided that buying 4 boxes to get a full squad of em, was worth the money.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2021/01/21 14:11:54
Subject: As of the new Death Guard codex, GW has taken No Model = No Rules to its extreme conclusion
Not Online!!! wrote: Not sure BCB, i doubt you'd see much rage, due to how many players just converted them... as it stands i know not one chaos player that has decided that buying 4 boxes to get a full squad of em, was worth the money.
Not when a squad of Mark 3s and some of the fw rotar cannons works just as well for far less than half the money.
. I'm not concerned with fighting the great eeevil of 
Eldar- 4436 pts
