Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I don't know why GW persists with battlesuit walkers. Maybe the Mortifier/penitent engines were decent because they were based on a pre-existing model but every other battlesuit walkers looks awful.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

epronovost wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
thats exactly the same as the sororitas design tho.... the pilots knees don't line up with the walker's knees

How is that important? The legs are certainly controled thanks to a sopisticated array of sensors that don't shadow the movements like it's the case for the arms, but picks up muscle twitches and movements of the feet and translate them into movements. As to why the same system isn't used for the arms it can be for more precision in the movement of the arms since those things are supposed to fight in close combat or technical limitations due to the size of cogitators designed by the Imperium to automatise processes like movements, having both arms and legs fully automated would require the suit to be bigger and have a full cockpit array which would make fighting in close combat more difficult and the suit to be a bigger target which would require more armor to survive and then you have a completely different class of weapon from light walker to a large scale one. The other option could be a full neural and spinal interface, but the Imperium seems to be unable to deconnect people from those making it problematic since being plugged in becomes a death sentence and you can't use that person in any other position than as suit pilot.

thats what i'm saying. People are arguing that the paragon is unpractical and grimtuff here was saying that the dreadknight was practical and that the legs on it made more sense than on the paragon.
Not liking a model because of its looks is fine, but trying to apply logic that isnt present in 40k and even comparing it to the exact same thing makes no sense to me and isnt an agument against it.

The difference between that artwork and the Paragon is the pilot's legs are exposed. You don't need to make mental jumps when you can visually see how it is meant to go together. Whether it would practically work or not is a different matter. That Dreadknight art has the DK's legs set up like those stilt shoes, where the "knee" and "shin" parts of the DK's legs are simply extensions of the pilot's feet if you will. The Paragon does not have this and it leaves it up to the individual's own interpretation to see where the legs exactly go in it.

Note also how I used a very particular artwork of the DK that appeared in the 5th ed GK codex, which looks not at all like the actual mini. Nowhere did I say the DK looks good or is practical.

Anyone wanna take a Stab at statting this piece of gak?

M: 4", WS 3+ BS 3+, S:6/T:5 W: 8, A: 3, L: 8 Sv: 3+

Weapons: Power sword S+1 AP3 D d3 damage.
Multi-Melta: Same as regular multi-melta
Flamer: See Heavy Flamer

Cost: I'll say with the above statline about 100 points, must be taken in squads of 3, but can be independent after deployment. So basically a Sentinel on Steroids.

Any one want the Over/under?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone wanna take a Stab at statting this piece of gak?

M: 4", WS 3+ BS 3+, S:6/T:5 W: 8, A: 3, L: 8 Sv: 3+

Weapons: Power sword S+1 AP3 D d3 damage.
Multi-Melta: Same as regular multi-melta
Flamer: See Heavy Flamer

Cost: I'll say with the above statline about 100 points, must be taken in squads of 3, but can be independent after deployment. So basically a Sentinel on Steroids.

Any one want the Over/under?

I'd go for:

M: 8", WS 4+ BS 3+, S:6/T:6 W: 8, A: 3, L: 8 Sv: 3+

Weapons: Power sword S+1 AP3 Dd3 damage.
Multi-Melta: Same as regular multi-melta
Twin Heavy Flamer or Twin Stormbolter: See Heavy Flamer

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone wanna take a Stab at statting this piece of gak?

M: 4", WS 3+ BS 3+, S:6/T:5 W: 8, A: 3, L: 8 Sv: 3+

Weapons: Power sword S+1 AP3 D d3 damage.
Multi-Melta: Same as regular multi-melta
Flamer: See Heavy Flamer

Cost: I'll say with the above statline about 100 points, must be taken in squads of 3, but can be independent after deployment. So basically a Sentinel on Steroids.

Any one want the Over/under?

Plus some sort of special stratagem or act of faith, Six-inch Heels of High Glory, effectively a guaranteed 12”charge A +1, S +3, AP 3, D 3 on the charge.

 Mr Morden wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone wanna take a Stab at statting this piece of gak?

M: 4", WS 3+ BS 3+, S:6/T:5 W: 8, A: 3, L: 8 Sv: 3+

Weapons: Power sword S+1 AP3 D d3 damage.
Multi-Melta: Same as regular multi-melta
Flamer: See Heavy Flamer

Cost: I'll say with the above statline about 100 points, must be taken in squads of 3, but can be independent after deployment. So basically a Sentinel on Steroids.

Any one want the Over/under?

I'd go for:

M: 8", WS 4+ BS 3+, S:6/T:6 W: 8, A: 3, L: 8 Sv: 3+

Weapons: Power sword S+1 AP3 Dd3 damage.
Multi-Melta: Same as regular multi-melta
Twin Heavy Flamer or Twin Stormbolter: See Heavy Flamer

Because I don't actually know: are Celestians just WS 4+? Because by the helmets, these look like Celestians.
Though the two shoulder mounted weapons shown look like missile launchers or twin heavy bolters to me.
Though i suppose I can't dismiss the possibility that they're 'Paragon Bolters' with some new statline.

No celestians are WS3+ so you may be right.

Most of the people here are looking at the wrong thing.

The important thing isn't how they look, the important thing is if they count as Infantry or not.

T4+ 2+(in cover) immune to rend -2 4++ multiwound models with heavy bolters and at least some melee ability? Will be awesome with fair points cost. Throw in +1S and +1 Attack from aura buffs and these things could SHRED.

I actually didn't really look at the guns before but with MM and HB as an option, if they're infantry they get the 10/20 pricepoints which would be pretty crazy. Also, who knows what the shoulder mounted guns are. They don't loook like stormbolters and there's a missile variant.

Stats- it will be very much in line with PE/Morties. Save might be 3+.

BUT (and this is the most important thing about THIS walker):

It is still righteous, and not fallen, which means it will get Order Trait + AoF (which the PE and Morties DON'T get, because they are fallen).
That's also why this looks clean and sleek vs the grimdark tortured look of the PE/ Mortie. And it does look holier than the PE and Mortie and I'm glad- it should. Faith and Order traits on a walker!

Some people obviously wanted a terminator equivalent, and they are comparing this to that idea. This is not meant to be a terminator equivalent; it is a PE/ Mortie equivalent. It will be statted and costed as such. Like PE's/ Morties, you will be able to take them in squads of up to 4, but you will not be required to do so.

As for proportion, here's a side by side with the PE:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/1093348-Paragon%20vs%20PE.html

My crop on the PE caught 1-2 more MM of base, which is why the PE pilot looks 1-2 MM higher. But you can see fairly clearly in a side by side that all the points of articulation on both suits line up and all the points of articulation in the pilots line up. I like ALL of the kits, but if you forced me to rank them, I'd say my fave is the classic PE, then the Paragon, then PE and Mortie tied for last place, with slight edge to Mortie because of the Iron Maiden pilot option.

Note: I uploaded the comparison to the gallery because I wanted to post the image so no one had to click to see it, but I can't figure out how to make it work- putting the tags on either side but it didn't work. If someone wants to tell me how to fix it, I will. In the meantime, all I can do is post the link.

I believe it will be something S5/T5 with 3W a piece and probably 3+/5++

Great comparison

(right click copy image location and past as normal image is what i do)

Awesome thanks.

 vipoid wrote:
I think it tells you something when Dark Eldar are meant to be the next codex, yet GW have absolutely nothing worthwhile to showcase for them so they're instead previewing the SoB Dreadknight no one asked for.


As to the model itself, I just can't see it as being a coherent whole. It looks more like 2-3 entirely different walkers have been inexpertly mashed together. Hence why we've got these slim, feminine legs (which I guess the Imperium can just do now?), yet the top half appears to be the better part of an entire cathedral.

#justplayimperium

I think it looks ugly as hell.. the penitent engine is so much better a minature.

I really can't see these guys being more than S5, S6 is a pretty beefy vehicle statline, that you don't see outside of bikes. Plus I am betting these guys will be pretty swingy with the damage, hence dd3. GW hates flat damage melee on non-astartes, and I don't think these guys will be "Light invictors"

I have to image S5/T6 with a bunch of S6 attacks is good enough, but they will also not able to be spammed (Ro3) so you won't see them suddenly go character hunting. I honestly don't see the point. Did sisters need another Anti-tank/melee specialist unit? Are Repentias and and PEs not cutting the mustard? Well toss these in I guess? It's a real answer without a problem.

 Argive wrote:

Spoiler:

 vipoid wrote:
I think it tells you something when Dark Eldar are meant to be the next codex, yet GW have absolutely nothing worthwhile to showcase for them so they're instead previewing the SoB Dreadknight no one asked for.


As to the model itself, I just can't see it as being a coherent whole. It looks more like 2-3 entirely different walkers have been inexpertly mashed together. Hence why we've got these slim, feminine legs (which I guess the Imperium can just do now?), yet the top half appears to be the better part of an entire cathedral.

#justplayimperium

I think it looks ugly as hell.. the penitent engine is so much better a minature.

Yeah, I will own one of these about the same time that I buy a centurion or some of those ridiculous jumpycessors with the assault cannons.

 jeff white wrote:

 Argive wrote:

Spoiler:

 vipoid wrote:
I think it tells you something when Dark Eldar are meant to be the next codex, yet GW have absolutely nothing worthwhile to showcase for them so they're instead previewing the SoB Dreadknight no one asked for.


As to the model itself, I just can't see it as being a coherent whole. It looks more like 2-3 entirely different walkers have been inexpertly mashed together. Hence why we've got these slim, feminine legs (which I guess the Imperium can just do now?), yet the top half appears to be the better part of an entire cathedral.

#justplayimperium

I think it looks ugly as hell.. the penitent engine is so much better a minature.

Yeah, I will own one of these about the same time that I buy a centurion or some of those ridiculous jumpycessors with the assault cannons.

I actually like centurions
This though just doesn't work for me..

Im going to bet its going to be a blessed blade instead of a power sword.

My stab would probably be, WS3, BS3, S4, T5, W4, A3, LD9, SV3+ (if considered infantry)

with +2S, Ap-3, Dd3

If its considered a vehicle probably bump to W5 or 6.

though knowing GW it might be something stupid like S4/T4 2wounds

I don't see Sisters running around with a S8 melee Walker, it's possible, then it would be good for bullying intercessors, but with less than 6 wounds and a 3+ save it's dogmeat in a single shooting phase. I have to imagine this is a pack vehicle, or squadron, like bikes or Sentinels. If you could only take three of these per list what would be the point?

I would be surprised if it doesn't have a stat line really close to that of the Mortifier Anchorite. Instead of a pair of Heavy Bolters/Heavy Flamers and a melee weapon, you have the shoulder weapon (Twin Heavy Bolters? or Cyclone Missile Launcher?), additional shooting gun (heavy version of the Holy Trinity), and the Melee Weapon (either a Blessed Blade or a Paragon Blade/Mace). The model also seems to have a holster on the hip, so a Bolt Pistol for extra measure?

Maybe they'll be Killakan equivalents. 1-6 models, S5/T5.
Better shooting though... much better shooting.

Considering the scale of the head that could easily be a 40mm base. They could be planning to sell boxes of five as Terminator-equivalents.

Something tells me that is more than 1 large spru. There is no way they could fit 5 of those in the same box as a set of terminators, they look as big as a single old style dread, and those were 1 to a box. I'd say this is a character, maybe an HQ option? In which case WS/BS 2+ with 6-8 wounds and a 4++? That is if it's a character option. Single box. If it's a vehicle/elite thing, no way they fit 5 of those in a box unless we think they are Custodian Guard sized, which might make sense?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
...There is no way they could fit 5 of those in the same box as a set of terminators, they look as big as a single old style dread, and those were 1 to a box...

Look at the head, look at the base. If that head's the same size as a normal Battle Sister head there's no way that's a 60mm base.

And they could totally fit them five in a box. Terminators fit on two sprues with options, these are probably a bit bigger but three sprues and you could probably even do bolter and melta variants.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
...There is no way they could fit 5 of those in the same box as a set of terminators, they look as big as a single old style dread, and those were 1 to a box...

Look at the head, look at the base. If that head's the same size as a normal Battle Sister head there's no way that's a 60mm base.

And they could totally fit them five in a box. Terminators fit on two sprues with options, these are probably a bit bigger but three sprues and you could probably even do bolter and melta variants.

I'll admit you have a good point, but I will see what GW does in the future. I don't see them putting a "squad" of these in a single box. GW always puts half a full squad 5 Astartes, 5 guardsmen, 5 Custodian guard, 3 Vertus Praetors, if they put 3 in a box I think that would be in keeping with their buy two boxes to get a full set type. Also likely not enough extras to fully kit them all out the way you want them.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Considering the scale of the head that could easily be a 40mm base. They could be planning to sell boxes of five as Terminator-equivalents.

Just based on the video presentation, I suspect a box of 3. They go back to the trio shot several times in the second half of the video.

The battle sisters around them in the video also come up to roughly the waist of the model (the 'belt buckle' with the little skull), not sure offhand how that compares to a Terminator.
https://youtu.be/h4Ftvn2JYng?t=72

I'm sorry, every time I see this I think of Matrix Reloaded. Can we please choke and kill the idea of man piloted exosuits in 40k for non-tau factions? They look so dumb and stupid on every model. The reason the dreadnaught is cool is because you can believe it's a walking tank. This is just 1 lasgun shot to the face of the pilot and it's over. The Tau at least fully enclose theirs. This whole trend needs to be pushed down the stairs. The Sisters aren't about mechs. They are about faith. Nothing about this screams faith.

Nevermind

I think it looks awful, but the legs, shoulders and weapons will be perfect for a demon prince for a corrupted SOB force.

Along with the new Slaanesh stuff for AOS it seems to all be coming together.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
...Can we please choke and kill the idea of man piloted exosuits in 40k for non-tau factions? They look so dumb and stupid on every model...

How do you feel about Scout Sentinels? Eldar War Walkers?

Voss wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Considering the scale of the head that could easily be a 40mm base. They could be planning to sell boxes of five as Terminator-equivalents.

Just based on the video presentation, I suspect a box of 3. They go back to the trio shot several times in the second half of the video.

The battle sisters around them in the video also come up to roughly the waist of the model (the 'belt buckle' with the little skull), not sure offhand how that compares to a Terminator.
https://youtu.be/h4Ftvn2JYng?t=72

The Paragon is looking very much like Mortifier-sized. I suspect we may get another 2-model box. Otherwise, they need to cram a full suit onto one sprue, not to mention options for heads and weapons.