SOB - Mech suit

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**Tycho**

And as I've said before, it's not about my view, it's about the majority view, so look around you instead of pestering me with your disingenuous quibbling. Although, that being said, the sad thing is the majority are often silent when browbeating shills are about, so perhaps you won't see so much

I mean personally, I don't very much care for any of the "baby carrier" style models, and there a lot of sculpts I'm not a fan of, but you don't see me using hyperbolic terms like "polluting the hobby".

You can't really make declarative statements like the ones you've made, while accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being wrong/disingenuous/stupid/schill, etc., as though anyone who disagrees with you is somehow dumb.

You may not realize you're doing it, but you have a way of contradicting yourself where you make a pretty big, declarative, and hyperbolic statement, get called out on it, then reply with a response that starts logically with an "This is just my opinion" and then spirals right back into the same hyperbolic, declarative statements you got called out on. It reads as though anyone who thinks it's ok to have an opinion is wrong in your eyes because these models clearly fail to reach this standard you keep bringing up as apparently "universal" (but refuse to elucidate).

**insaniak**

Banzaimash wrote:

Never said it was just about my opinion. No one person sets the standards, just like no one person decided what the world of business would wear. It's all about the opinion of the majority, and however cute you fancy being, the opinion you're facetiously trying to make a point out of is the minority, no matter how much you try and browbeat people who don't simply want to roll over and watch their hobby destroyed.

Do you think it's possibly worth considering that if people keep buying enough of them to encourage GW to keep selling them and making similar models, that maybe, just maybe, your impression of the 'majority view' might be somewhat off the mark?

**AngryAngel80**

The fact more is, beauty in a model can be highly subjective. People like stuff I think is fuggly , I like things people despise. It goes both ways that is the thing with taste. As well if the rules are good enough some players will get these models even if they look like poo with a funny hat on.

I doubt if they sold none they'd just discontinue it either simply buff the rules or place them in discounted boxes but some people will buy anything GW puts out, even if it looks stupid or it sucks.

This however I think looks pretty cool and I like the battle suit feel, even if I can appreciate it feels a little off touch for sisters of old.

**Dysartes**

Banzaimash wrote:

Spoiler:

VladimirHerzog wrote:
Vankraken wrote:
It would be impossible for the sister to fit her legs inside the legs of the mech suit given how far apart they are. It's sorta the whole Terminator shoulder issue all over again where the suit is designed to be impossible to actually fit in. Might work if the Sister's legs where cut off but if that's the case when why have the sister's arms expose controlling the the suit arms. Same issue if the sister is suppose to be tucked into the suit (like a Tau Crisis Suit pilot).

Because of the odd leg situation it looks like they took a larger scale sister model and put it's waist and legs onto the mech suit. As others have pointed out that it sorta looks a bit like an Eldar wraith unit. Of course it's also a little sister version of the Dreadknight (aka the baby carrier).

How would it be impossible? we litterally see her thighs and we can see that they connect to her body properly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Banzaimash wrote:

The issue is it's the players buying the latest eyesore that feed the beast. If no one bought ugly trash like Inceptors or Infiltrators or whatever they wouldn't be sold. Plenty of perfectly good models out there they can buy from GW instead. At the end of the day this is first and formost a visual hobby, so the aesthetic appeal of a unit is paramount to enjoyment. As I've said in another thread, there's a marked distance between differing tastes and something being abhorrent to the eye and failing to meet a basic standard of appearance. Kind of like how whether you like wearing a blue suit or a black suit to work is up to you, but you'd be stupid and incredibly inappropriate to turn up in in a gimp suit.

"Paragon warsuits, centurions, Inceptors and infiltrators are the only nice models from GW. If no one bought ugly trash like oldmarines , they wouldnt be sold. Plenty of perfectly good models out there you can buy instead of the models you enjoy. I am the ultimate authority on what you are allower to enjoy".

Never said it was just about my opinion. No one person sets the standards, just like no one person decided what the world of business would wear. It's all about the opinion of the majority, and however cute you fancy being, the opinion you're facetiously trying to make a point out of is the minority, no matter how much you try and browbeat people who don't simply want to roll over and watch their hobby destroyed.

Minority view? [Citation required]

Seriously, you've been mouthing off on a couple of threads now as if you're the arbiter of good taste - only to then try to row it back when someone calls you on your BS.

If you think your position is so righteous, how about you provide some evidence to back up your spurious claims?

Alternatively, please do everyone a favour and get back under thy bridge.

* * *

Coming back to the Paragon and the Sister's legs, someone posted a reasonable scaled Photoshop effort earlier in the thread that made it look like they would fit, with her feet sitting above the knee - this is definitely a model where we could do with seeing some more angles of, though, and maybe a cut-away diagram...

**alextroy**

Dysartes wrote:
Coming back to the Paragon and the Sister's legs, someone posted a reasonable scaled Photoshop effort earlier in the thread that made it look like they would fit, with her feet sitting above the knee - this is definitely a model where we could do with seeing some more angles of, though, and maybe a cut-away diagram...

I had the same reaction until I saw both the Battle Sister overlay and the Penitent Engine side-by-side. The model just didn't look that big without any reference points. Now it looks like the pilot's calves are in the suit's thighs, which makes so much more sense.

**Karol**

Aren't the legs just < shaped in the both armour with pedals used as bracing and maybe for movment? The main problem with operating a bi ped like that would be not having neural links like marines do.

**Mmmpi**

They could have neural links.

That isn't the same as black carapace.

**PenitentJake**

Here's a fun thought:

I put together a fun list for Karamazov that was loaded with PE's and Morties. I didn't want to give the list any non-walker models, but because there aren't yet rules for Inquisitors being HQ for their respective Chambers Militant, I had to include either a canoness or a missionary to lead it, because the only way Karamazov can be in a detachment with PE's and Morties is if he joins as an Imperial Agent.

Now I'm not convinced that there will be a Paragon HQ, but if there was... I could finally build the all walker army.

**Oborosen**

Alright, after a few days of mulling over this model and the new rules, and how it looks compared to what it is.. I don't like it.

There is so much crap in the fluff of Warhammer that it's hard to see how GW couldn't have come up with something else to work with here. Hell, the SoB could've gotten their own form of terminator armor at this point and used it as heavy support. Because there's plenty of evidence that even inquisitors have their own form of that armor going around and if the SoB have enough clout to warrant custom power armor in the first place. You'd think that they could get someone to churn out a few models of terminator variants.

We even have old rouge trader examples of them having better items, with even their own forms of dreadnoughts and this, this is the best that GW could come up with... for some reason. I feel as though Matt Ward has been redeemed to some extent, and that is saying something after all he's put the fandom through.

Design wise, the model looks horrendous to me. Almost making the NDK look more dignified by comparison, but other then that. Strangely enough the worst part has to be the sister's face however, or is it just her haircut that makes the model seem so off.

**PenitentJake**

Oborosen wrote:
Alright, after a few days of mulling over this model and the new rules, and how it looks compared to what it is.. I don't like it.

There is so much crap in the fluff of Warhammer that it's hard to see how GW couldn't have come up with something else to work with here. Hell, the SoB could've gotten their own form of terminator armor at this point and used it as heavy support. Because there's plenty of evidence that even inquisitors have their own form of that armor going around and if the SoB have enough clout to warrant custom power armor in the first place. You'd think that they could get someone to churn out a few models of terminator variants.

We even have old rouge trader examples of them having better items, with even their own forms of dreadnoughts and this, this is the best that GW could come up with... for some reason. I feel as though Matt Ward has been redeemed to some extent, and that is saying something after all he's put the fandom through.

Design wise, the model looks horrendous to me. Almost making the NDK look more dignified by comparison, but other then that. Strangely enough the worst part has to be the sister's face however, or is it just her haircut that makes the model seem so off.

I won't comment on aesthetics; that's all in the eye of the beholder.

But I would take a PE equivalent with order traits and acts of faith over a terminator equivalent any day of the week, and that is what this kit is. I think this kit looks better than the new PE/ Mortifier dual kit, but again, that's truly subjective. It isn't that I don't like new PE's/ Morties... I do I just like these better. Honestly, the old PE is my favourite of the 4.

Now if Sisters Terminators come along, I'll probably buy them, and they'll probably look good. But these are way more interesting on the battlefield than terminators.

**Hellebore**

I think if you kit bashed them with the penitent engine, they'd look better. But conceptually they are both pretty similar

**Oborosen**

Hellebore wrote:
I think if you kit bashed them with the penitent engine, they'd look better. But conceptually they are both pretty similar

To be honest, I see nothing but a ton of kit bashing in the near future for these models.

Please, just give most of us a decent helmet for the sister and maybe we can handle the rest.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PenitentJake wrote:
Oborosen wrote:
Alright, after a few days of mulling over this model and the new rules, and how it looks compared to what it is.. I don't like it.

There is so much crap in the fluff of Warhammer that it's hard to see how GW couldn't have come up with something else to work with here. Hell, the SoB could've gotten their own form of terminator armor at this point and used it as heavy support. Because there's plenty of evidence that even inquisitors have their own form of that armor going around and if the SoB have enough clout to warrant custom power armor in the first place. You'd think that they could get someone to churn out a few models of terminator variants.

We even have old rouge trader examples of them having better items, with even their own forms of dreadnoughts and this, this is the best that GW could come up with... for some reason. I feel as though Matt Ward has been redeemed to some extent, and that is saying something after all he's put the fandom through.

Design wise, the model looks horrendous to me. Almost making the NDK look more dignified by comparison, but other then that. Strangely enough the worst part has to be the sister's face however, or is it just her haircut that makes the model seem so off.

I won't comment on aesthetics; that's all in the eye of the beholder.

But I would take a PE equivalent with order traits and acts of faith over a terminator equivalent any day of the week, and that is what this kit is. I think this kit looks better than the new PE/ Mortifier dual kit, but again, that's truly subjective. It isn't that I don't like new PE's/ Morties... I do I just like these better. Honestly, the old PE is my favourite of the 4.

Now if Sisters Terminators come along, I'll probably buy them, and they'll probably look good. But these are way more interesting on the battlefield than terminators.

I was rather hoping that they'd give the sisters their own version of a tactical warsuit at this point.

**Dysartes**

Oborosen wrote:
Hellebore wrote:
I think if you kit bashed them with the penitent engine, they'd look better. But conceptually they are both pretty similar

To be honest, I see nothing but a ton of kit bashing in the near future for these models.

Please, just give most of us a decent helmet for the sister and maybe we can handle the rest.

There's at least a Celestian-styled helmet in the kit - it shows up in the video on the alternative build with the heavy bolter.

**tauist**

Banzaimash wrote:
a_typical_hero wrote:
Banzaimash wrote:
You're on this forum, on this thread, so I assume you like 40k. You say you don't like what GW has made, so why not speak out against it and stand up for your own interests, rather than standing by permissively as this visual pollution takes place. You don't like this now, and more things will come that you don't like, until one day you come to a table to play and it is filled with things you don't like. The game will be a different beast and have thrown you off along the way.

I appreciate your response, I just think you are barking at the wrong tree. People can only buy what GW offers them. Your gripe is with the Company's art direction, not fellow hobbyists.

The issue is it's the players buying the latest eyesore that feed the beast. If no one bought ugly trash like Inceptors or Infiltrators or whatever they wouldn't be sold. Plenty of perfectly good models out there they can buy from GW instead. At the end of the day this is first and formost a visual hobby, so the aesthetic appeal of a unit is paramount to enjoyment. As I've said in another thread, there's a marked distance between differing tastes and something being abhorrent to the eye and failing to meet a basic standard of appearance. Kind of like how whether you like wearing a blue suit or a black suit to work is up to you, but you'd be stupid and incredibly inappropriate to turn up in in a gimp suit.

Well, hello there! First off, I love Inceptors and Infiltrators aren't all that terrible either. But are you really making an analogy between how a person's toy soldier army is supposed to look like with business clothing standards? So, in your workplace everybody actually gets a raise depending on what looking army is sitting at their workbench?

I have heard a lot of inane gibberish in my time on the internets, but your post ranks at least in the top #5

**tneva82**

Banzaimash wrote:
a_typical_hero wrote:
I do like the "concept art" in the video, but dislike the actual model. Something just doesn't feel right about it. Helmeted version is better though.. maybe if I see it in person? I'm more confused why Sisters will get another walker. Haven't we covered two legged melee units for them already? I'd prefer their range to be expanded into other directions.

Banzaimash wrote:
But instead it's just another confusing baby-carrier. I honestly wonder what kind of people buy half the stuff GW releases these days.

People don't like what I like, so let me publicly question their taste to show that MY preferred aesthetics are superior

I'll question bad taste when I see it all damn day. Having standards is a good thing, try it sometime.

Of course you are the one who decides what is good and bad taste...lol. Keep on dreaming bro.

**endlesswaltz123**

I'm not massively against them, however if they were going to make a walker for SoB, I think some form of even more grotesque, larger, mutilated maybe multi 'pilot' penitent engine would have been more fitting, with a massive chain blade, inferno cannons, maybe some twin melta guns and heavy bolters, maybe with special rules where it auto explodes for mortal wounds when it does indicating it's role to get into the enemy lines and perish whilst causing untold damage with it.

Obviously a steam punk, decrepit vibe to it to indicate it isn't worth much in terms of parts etc

**Strg Alt**

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I'm not massively against them, however if they were going to make a walker for SoB, I think some form of even more grotesque, larger, mutilated maybe multi 'pilot' penitent engine would have been more fitting, with a massive chain blade, inferno cannons, maybe some twin melta guns and heavy bolters, maybe with special rules where it auto explodes for mortal wounds when it does indicating it's role to get into the enemy lines and perish whilst causing untold damage with it.

Obviously a steam punk, decrepit vibe to it to indicate it isn't worth much in terms of parts etc

You already have a tortured soul piloting a walker in the list. Time to do something new. Though I need to see the model assembled irl before I decide to buy it or not.

**endlesswaltz123**

Strg Alt wrote:
endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I'm not massively against them, however if they were going to make a walker for SoB, I think some form of even more grotesque, larger, mutilated maybe multi 'pilot' penitent engine would have been more fitting, with a massive chain blade, inferno cannons, maybe some twin melta guns and heavy bolters, maybe with special rules where it auto explodes for mortal wounds when it does indicating it's role to get into the enemy lines and perish whilst causing untold damage with it.

Obviously a steam punk, decrepit vibe to it to indicate it isn't worth much in terms of parts etc

You already have a tortured soul piloting a walker in the list. Time to do something new. Though I need to see the model assembled irl before I decide to buy it or not.

I get that, they could make something more heavy hitting for those large foes with the same philosophy though.

**A.T.**

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Obviously a steam punk, decrepit vibe to it to indicate it isn't worth much in terms of parts etc

The old penitent engines were built that way - stock sentinel legs, power pack that looked like it came off of civilian farm equipment, blocky and uncomplicated compared to the update.

**VladimirHerzog**

Mmmpi wrote:
They could have neural links.

That isn't the same as black carapace.

and they do have them, at least we see similar IO ports on the arms of repentias.

**Tamwulf**

I like it, and I think it'll be a great unit if it has <order> keyword.

**PenitentJake**

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I'm not massively against them, however if they were going to make a walker for SoB, I think some form of even more grotesque, larger, mutilated maybe multi 'pilot' penitent engine would have been more fitting, with a massive chain blade, inferno cannons, maybe some twin melta guns and heavy bolters, maybe with special rules where it auto explodes for mortal wounds when it does indicating it's role to get into the enemy lines and perish whilst causing untold damage with it.

Obviously a steam punk, decrepit vibe to it to indicate it isn't worth much in terms of parts etc

We already have 2 penitent walkers. What we needed was holy one. That's what we got.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Matt Swain wrote:
apologies for bad typing here, my usual keyboard just got killed and i'm using a poor replacement with totally different layout.

My 2% of a throne on this matter.

IG are basically the bottom of the barrel in the imperium. I mean, what are the requirements? Are you pretty much physically human? Do you have basic motor skills? A pulse? You're in! Illiterate? No problem!

They get the simplest and most basic cheap gear.

Now some are more capable and when recognized are assigned to better units like the stormtroopers.

Things like these exoframes are high end gear and are reserved for the better units, plus you need to be mentally able to use them. The average SOB is likely literate, taught to read holy books and whatnot. She can follow the old advice and RTFM.

Also she is dedicated enough to commit to learning to use these more advanced system, and loyal enough to be trusted with it.

This thing is a force multiplier, and you give it to your better troops so increase their effectiveness more.

Also SOB units in a lot of ways are more important thaN the IG, as if used properly and effectively can crush a GSC chaos uprising early on that major force is not needed. Their most vital role is to see to it that small problems die before they become big ones.

So, yes, i can see the sisters getting these while the guard doesn't. Plus the guard gets sentinels, easier to make and use, and generally just packing heavy firepower for regular use.

It’s also possible that if as posited elsewhere in this thread there’s some kind of Mind Impulse Unit (MIU) involved, it takes a suitably disciplined mind.

I think there probably is some form of MIU involved, as the pilot needs to not only aim and use the weapons, but maintain the suits balance, monitor their Power Armour’s own input etc.

Let’s just consider the ranged weapon systems we’ve seen. There’s the arm mount (Heavy Bolter / Heavy Flamer / Multimelta), and the shoulder mounts (at least twin Storm Bolters, or some form of missile launcher. Exact pattern unsure at the moment). Consider it takes time to learn to effectively use even a basic firearm, and contrary to the movies dual wielding accurately is really bloody hard, how much harder would it be to use this suite effectively, even without having to monitor, maintain and adjust for the other systems.

That Sisters are undoubtedly better educated than the teeming masses is likely a factor in their ability to use such a construct. Their purity and devotion to purpose would also help them master the MIU - which let us not forget provides mental feedback to whomever it’s hooked up to, and many contain at least a basic, animalistic programming, which in itself can overwhelm the user, informing their actions instead.

**spiralingcadaver**

PenitentJake wrote:
endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I'm not massively against them, however if they were going to make a walker for SoB, I think some form of even more grotesque, larger, mutilated maybe multi 'pilot' penitent engine would have been more fitting, with a massive chain blade, inferno cannons, maybe some twin melta guns and heavy bolters, maybe with special rules where it auto explodes for mortal wounds when it does indicating it's role to get into the enemy lines and perish whilst causing untold damage with it.

Obviously a steam punk, decrepit vibe to it to indicate it isn't worth much in terms of parts etc

We already have 2 penitent walkers. What we needed was holy one. That's what we got.

But I think this misses a key point, which is, do these, within the logic of SOB, perform roles that are consistent with their worldview?

The PE, as an outgrowth from AFs/Repentia seem to have a very specific place. I don't think it necessarily fits the same model that you'd strap your heroes in devices that are basically just the fancy version.

Currently, the pulpit or throne or lectern or whatever imagery is very central to their design, in all versions of the immolater, in both versions of the exorcist, in the funky flying flamer thing, in Karamazov's walker when he used to be attached to the army, in st Katherine.

The walker doesn't continue this model at all. The only supporting harness style that exists at all are their highly stylized jump troops. Currently everything else has either a procession/altar sensibility (apologies, don't know religious terminology or I might be more specific) or a fanatic sensibility. This has a vaguely augmented knight sensibility, which is really a Marine thing, and I think just doesn't fit the faction as it stands. I might not have noticed if it had turned out like some of the better photoshop jobs have, but I think it still would have been the case, even if the model looked better.

(This isn't to say that reality conforms to such ideas of cultural consistency, but this is a game of fantasy toys, so, well, my 2c.)

**Grimtuff**

PenitentJake wrote:
Here's a fun thought:

I put together a fun list for Karamazov that was loaded with PE's and Morties. I didn't want to give the list any non-walker models, but because there aren't yet rules for Inquisitors being HQ for their respective Chambers Militant, I had to include either a canoness or a missionary to lead it, because the only way Karamazov can be in a detachment with PE's and Morties is if he joins as an Imperial Agent.

Now I'm not convinced that there will be a Paragon HQ, but if there was... I could finally build the all walker army.

Why not just use the floaty lady whose name escapes me and add legs to her mini, so it is a walking pulpit instead of a floaty one?

**PenitentJake**

Grimtuff wrote:

Why not just use the floaty lady whose name escapes me and add legs to her mini, so it is a walking pulpit instead of a floaty one?

This is quite possibly the coolest idea I have ever seen. Thank you for this. Exalted!

**McGibs**

Aside from the wonky proportions/mechanics, I just don't think the aesthetics or theme fit the army all that well. It's a pretty bland exosuit for one of the most over the top factions in 40k. This is an army that has crucifix/iron-maiden punishment mechas, pipe-organ rocket artillery, a militarized funeral procession, sinners covered in religious parchment and giant chainsaws, and a literal angel. Even the most basic infantry are fully decked out in nun garb and carry around giant impractical reliquaries on sticks!

By comparison, this thing is just a pretty tame "robo-knight", with a bit of filigree to tie it into the army. At the very least it could have been decked out in a giant flowing nun habit, or the whole thing could have been carved out of marble like a renaissance statue. It's missing that extra layer of ridiculous that is the hallmark of all the great Sisters of Battle units.

**Grimtuff**

PenitentJake wrote:
Grimtuff wrote:

Why not just use the floaty lady whose name escapes me and add legs to her mini, so it is a walking pulpit instead of a floaty one?

This is quite possibly the coolest idea I have ever seen. Thank you for this. Exalted!

Saw a walker version of it (well, someone using it as Karamazov) on Reddit the other day. Here it is if you want a bit of inspiration.

EDIT- A 4-legged one here too

**Purifying Tempest**

I, for one, like the model. I like it for a lot of the reasons people here claim makes it bad.

The penitent get the lowest grade garbage, even the mortifier is not some grand honor - hence why her armor is stripped.

This vehicle is very different. The driver is still an ordained sister with all of the rights inherent in being a part of the Order, and this is a key mechanical distinction from both of her penitent monstrosities and puts her closer to a Repentia than EITHER of those (as Repentia still benefit from <ORDER> and Sacred Rites).

And the care and devotion shown to the construction shines through. It is functional and yet more aesthetically considered (refraining from saying pleasing...), which shows this is not just an iron frame tossed out there to do a shoddy job at mucking up the field of battle. The Exorcist and the Immolator are practically rolling shrines, why would this one not be considered a walking one? ESPECIALLY if it is carrying someone of the Celestian rank.

They managed to capture that in addition to staying true to the core design of imperium walkers with the broad, high-set shoulders and bulkier top build than lower.

I think it is pretty neato and am excited to get a squad into my army... and here I thought it was "completed". GG GW.

**Grumblewartz**

As a fan of walkers, it is nice that the new sisters Mech suit will help round out a walker heavy list. It does seem like an uninspired design choice. My reasoning is that penitent engines and mortifiers strap their pilot (victim) to the front of the suit to punish them, give them a chance at some form of redemption. Having a devout sister mounted in the same way kind of undermines the logic behind the penitent engines and mortifiers. Lazy design concept, IMO (saying nothing about the aesthetics, which are purely subjective).