H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kislev won. It's a box that comes up at the start.

The campaign is set after the RoC campaign.

Voss wrote:

trexmeyer wrote:
That's what I heard from milkandcookiestw.

The ROC campaign is just a script that kicks off for that specific campaign. It's not hard to have a COC specific script that disables ROC mechanics at the start and runs the COC scripts.

Right, but that isn't 'after.' That's just starting fresh at the beginning (with everybody in their starting positions) but disabling some of the stupid events. (which, going to be honest, would be what it would take to play on that map again)

'After the RoC campaign' means somebody has won, did whatever they where going to do to the bear god, and now belakor is on somebody's leash out in the world.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kislev won. It's a box that comes up at the start.

The campaign is set after the RoC campaign.

trexmeyer wrote:

Voss wrote:

trexmeyer wrote:
That's what I heard from milkandcookiestw.

The ROC campaign is just a script that kicks off for that specific campaign. It's not hard to have a COC specific script that disables ROC mechanics at the start and runs the COC scripts.

Right, but that isn't 'after.' That's just starting fresh at the beginning (with everybody in their starting positions) but disabling some of the stupid events. (which, going to be honest, would be what it would take to play on that map again)

'After the RoC campaign' means somebody has won, did whatever they where going to do to the bear god, and now belakor is on somebody's leash out in the world.

You're confusing gameplay mechanics with story. The story is set after Kislev-Ice Court won. That is canon. As it is using the same campaign map as ROC so far as we know, COC will just have different lua scripts running at the start of the campaign. Belakor is likely banished in the canon.

 nels1031 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kislev won. It's a box that comes up at the start.

The campaign is set after the RoC campaign.

That's cool.

Actually much better than it being concurrent to the RoC campaign.

Sounds like its similar to Three Kingdoms and its option to pick different seminal moments in the saga as jumping off points. Same map, different start positions(for some) and new campaign objectives and mechanics.

Voss wrote:
Huh. Where's this info coming from?

Voss wrote:
I was expecting more like Tomb Kings and the Vortex, not simply burying the original campaign. So does that mean facing down a united Kislev (and Cathay?) and fewer factions on the map overall?

Voss wrote:


All you claimed was that it was after the RoC campaign, then said it was 'just a script.' Those aren't the same thing.

Welcome back, Total War: WARHAMMER fans, to another instalment of the Immortal Empires blog series. This week, we’re taking a closer look at some of the most significant race updates you’ll experience come this August when the Immortal Empires BETA finally arrives—specifically to the Vampire Counts, Lizardmen, Dark Elves, and Norsca.

Before we explore those juicy details, it’s important to recognize that importing races from Total War: WARHAMMER I and II into Immortal Empires is no simple task; it’s *far* more complex than a simple copy and paste from game to game. WARHAMMER III introduced significant updates to the series—in the form of new mechanics, overhauled game systems, and a host of new foes to face—meaning that many races required substantial adaptations to survive in a fresh new world of war and politics. As such, while these updates won’t be quite to the same scale as what you’ll see with the Warriors of Chaos, they will nonetheless evolve their play styles in important (and meaningful) ways.

VAMPIRE COUNTS

Everyone’s favourite bloodsuckers were in a difficult place coming out of WARHAMMER II: mainly relying on a devastating two-punch combo of free skeleton armies and the evisceration of their enemy with Winds of Death. While it was a real power-trip at times, it did eventually get a bit dry… (Bone-dry, you might say.)

On top of that, changes to systems like the Winds of Magic in WARHAMMER III have a heavy impact on the race, so the team spent time enhancing them in ways that help them stay fresh…as fresh as an exhumed corpse can be, at least.

So, the headline: free skeletons are GONE. You’ll still have ways to make them (grave)dirt cheap, but not to the same extent as before. We know this is a big change—one that might disappoint some people—but it not only distorted the Vampire Counts’ gameplay too much, but made much of the roster obsolete, particularly in conjunction with the reduced supply line penalties in WARHAMMER III.

To make up for the loss, we’ve made a whole host of other changes that we hope will more than make amends for it. Here’s a look at some of the key changes:

Across-the-board balance changes to the roster: leadership increases to most units, adjustments to Ethereal units, and the ability to recruit Mournguls (in a Campaign) if you own the Vampire Coast DLC.
Improvements to Raise Dead pools: which now offer better units by default and scale up with Vampiric corruption—making them less reliant on battle sites.
Reshuffle of recruitment buildings, with many units now available earlier and more easily.
Revamped tech tree, skill trees, and Bloodline effects to give the race access to powerful new effects: such as increased healing caps and extra Winds of Magic.
As for individual Lords, we’ve already highlighted some of the changes coming to the undead power couple—Vlad and Isabella Von Carstein—in our Dedicated Factions blog, but don’t worry: Mannfred and the Necromancer Lords will have their time in the sun moon too.

Mannfred Von Carstein has moved to the Southlands where he seeks the unholy Books of Nagash. As the most magically gifted of the Vampire Lords, he has also received increased magic reserves, and his Master of the Black Arts ability now boosts his spell mastery by 25%.

To complement his new starting position in The Haunted Forest, Helman Ghorst now starts the campaign mounted on his Corpse Cart, and can acquire skills that enhance his aura abilities—granting powerful faction-wide buffs to Zombies. If you want to drown the world in rotting flesh while watching from the back of your sweet ride, he’s the Legendary Lord for you!

Not to be outdone by this young upstart, Kemmler has also upped his game. His best bud, Krell, will now be a permanent summon by default, while Kemmler’s skill tree serves to super-charge Krell’s combat stats.

LIZARDMEN

We know that “Lizardmen” and “update” together might generate some excitement, so we’ll get the bad news out of the way first: the Geomantic Web is still pretty much the same—other than a few adjustments to reward you for fulfilling the Great Plan. We fully recognize that it’s ripe for a more substantial update and hope to find an opportunity to do so in the future.

With that said, there’s still a load of other changes coming for our scaly friends…

We’ll start with the humble Skinks! As has long been requested, Tehenhauin now unlocks Regiments of Renown units by levelling up, and will be able to use his sacrificial pyramid to generate extra Blessed Spawning units. His chameleonic comrade, Oxyotl, will be receiving new missions to hunt down and eliminate the new Daemonic enemies who recently arrived on the Immortal Empires map, and his mission durations will now scale with campaign difficulty, making it much harder to thwart Chaos if you choose to player at harder levels.

The stalwart Saurus will also benefit from changes that help them take on the Daemonic hordes in battle! Their innate “Primal Instincts” ability kicks in earlier: granting them greater bonuses and no longer triggering their Rampage. Both Saurus characters also get revamped lord and faction effects to account for this in addition to helping them develop their own play styles. Kroq’gar will focus on creating a coterie of elite Saurus characters—with major buffs for Old-Bloods and Scar-Veterans—while Gor’rok will enjoy new effects that lean into his defensive nature; while his unique rite no longer makes Saurus’ Unbreakable, it now grants them Barrier as well as immunity to hostile weapon effects like poison—a perfect boon for taking on a certain pestilential rodent…!

As the premier magic-wielders of the setting, the Slann—including Lord Kroak—are getting skill tree tweaks to fit the new magic system in WARHAMMER III while gaining access to powerful effects like Barrier and increases to their Winds of Magic capacity. On top of that, Mazdamundi will also receive a whopping +50% range increase to all his spells—befitting for a frog of such continent-shifting power.

Finally, Nakai will enjoy a variety of balance changes: including tech tree updates to boost his economy, as well as new and improved benefits upon constructing Temples to the Old Ones. He’ll also benefit from some of the fundamental improvements to diplomacy that were introduced in WARHAMMER III—notably improving how the AI interacts with vassal factions.

DARK ELVES

Next, let’s turn to the Druchii, who—in addition to being in a prime position to benefit from the new Sea Lanes—have seen big changes to their slaves mechanic.

Previously, this was a feature that resulted in insane late-game economic performance with relatively little interaction from the player. As such, in WARHAMMER III, slaves are now considered a faction-level resource rather than something you stow in a province. Slaves can now be “spent” at numerous buildings to generate income, or invested in three powerful “Slave Diktats” to benefit a specific province.

For a long while, the Druchii have had a…complicated relationship with Chaos, so the influx of Daemonic factions has led to a few notable changes. Morathi now gets unique interactions with Slaanesh corruption and can even recruit Daemonettes, while Malus’ Possession ability now allows for more frequent use of Tz’arkan and interacts differently with the new corruption types.

Last of all, Rakarth can now capture and tame a host of new beasts: including Sabretusks and Feral Bears. (Rakarth even got an in-depth spotlight in our recent Q&A with the development team!)

NORSCA

Let’s talk cold, angry, and primed to raid! Norsca had a somewhat tumultuous entry into the series with their unique ability to construct outposts instead of regular settlements. Built on the foundation of the climate-locked occupations of WARHAMMER I, this design did not make a graceful transition into WARHAMMER II; where it was originally designed to grant them unparalleled flexibility, it instead became their greatest weakness.

So, if you take one thing home when you’re done raiding these shores, it’s the fact that Norsca is now a regular occupation faction—with access to their complete building tree anywhere in the world.

While that is the big one, there are additional smaller changes coming to freshen up the race:

⬥ ⬥ ⬥
DEVOTION TO THE GODS
Like before, players can dedicate the ruins of their enemies to one of the four Dark Gods in order to gain their favour, but there was always a massive disparity in the rewards given. As such, we’ve evened things out a bit.

Full dedication to the Crow no longer causes a (admittedly mostly impotent) global plague. Rather, you will be joined by Burplesmirk Spewpit, the Exalted Great Unclean One.
Full dedication to the Hound no longer gives you access to The Ice-Forged Legion. Rather, you will be joined by Killgore Slaymaim, An Exalted Hero of Khorne.
All reward characters grant their army an incredibly powerful boon that twists their battle profile to align closer to the Dark God’s ideal forces. For example, Azrik’s forces enjoy access to Barriers, magical weapons, and global Winds of Magic generation benefits.
If you just had the terrifying realization that we didn’t say where the Ice-Forged Legion went, don’t worry; your favourite Hellcannon Battery has become a regular Regiment Of Renown unit that unlocks once you reach the appropriate level.
COMMANDMENTS
Being fully settled and capable of holding complete provinces all over the world, Norsca has a full set of commandments to enact over them and solidify their new holdings.

RESOURCES
Wine, furs, and everything in-between, Norsca can now construct buildings to exploit almost all resources for local or global bonuses.

CAPITAL TARGETS
With new forces of Order come new cities to raze for unique benefits. The Kurgan hordes have never taken Wei-Jin, but perhaps they only lacked a unifying iron fist…?
⬥ ⬥ ⬥
To tie us off, let’s head off the question on everyone’s minds: no, this is not the “Norsca rework.”

These changes are about freeing Norsca from the shackles of their outposts and giving them a taste of the fresh new powers of the Dark Gods in WARHAMMER III. Like the rest of Immortal Empires, this is just the beginning: the foundation upon which to build and make future tweaks to the different factions.

Before we explore those juicy details, it’s important to recognize that importing races from Total War: WARHAMMER I and II into Immortal Empires is no simple task; it’s *far* more complex than a simple copy and paste from game to game. WARHAMMER III introduced significant updates to the series—in the form of new mechanics, overhauled game systems, and a host of new foes to face

 nels1031 wrote:
Looks like Festus the Leechlord is getting a reveal soon.

Voss wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
Looks like Festus the Leechlord is getting a reveal soon.

They said weekly, or at least over the next 3 weeks. I'd assume previews on the 26th, 2nd and 9th, short lets play the next day or so, then something 'big' for the 16th followed by release on the 23rd.
A teaser pic like the vague pink thing they did with Azazel wouldn't be a surprise, though.

 Overread wrote:
Not quite.

Norsca were made differently enough that the content that they tried to port from Warhammer 1 to 2 totally broke. The faction came out late because they basically had to rebuild everything to make them fit. Most of the other factions were ported over as a core and then content adjusted and updated for Warhammer 2.


This is the same as for 3. Whilst there is a lot of work and its not as simple as a copy-paste; they don't have to rebuild the factions (or shouldn't at least). Instead its more respecting the fact that Warhammer 3 introduced new things and thus the Warhammer 2 armies, after the content is ported over, have to be updated and adjusted to fit with those new content elements.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Not quite.

Norsca were made differently enough that the content that they tried to port from Warhammer 1 to 2 totally broke. The faction came out late because they basically had to rebuild everything to make them fit. Most of the other factions were ported over as a core and then content adjusted and updated for Warhammer 2.


This is the same as for 3. Whilst there is a lot of work and its not as simple as a copy-paste; they don't have to rebuild the factions (or shouldn't at least). Instead its more respecting the fact that Warhammer 3 introduced new things and thus the Warhammer 2 armies, after the content is ported over, have to be updated and adjusted to fit with those new content elements.

From memory, I read a blog post that basically said the Norsca design team was a separate team to the WH2 design team and they weren't communicating enough such that the Norsca team was diverging from what would allow it to be plugged straight into WH2, and they realised too late and so Norsca ended up getting delayed.

I would guess that while the WH2 team was busy porting over the WH1 armies, the Norsca team was busy writing Norsca for WH1, so that too close to the release date they had to start from scratch porting Norsca over when all the other armies were already approaching their completion.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
We'll get one a week until they've shown them all off. And then they announce the surprise FLC, Arbaal the Undefeated.

What? A man can dream, can't he...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And Morglum Necksnapper for the Orcs!

Long forgetting the Hippocratic Oath he so vehemently preached as a mortal, Festus can be found concocting a variety of horrific potions and unleashing Lore of Nurgle spells, both of which allow him to manipulate the battlefield in insidious ways. While his Healing Elixirs ability replenishes the hit points of his own combatants, the Harbinger of Pestilence ability instead deals damage to enemy combatants. Yet there’s a catch: both act more like toggleable passive abilities that are mutually exclusive to use (meaning that only one of the two can be active at any one time).

FACTION EFFECTS
Vassals gain poison attacks and spread Nurgle’s corruption
Can brew Plagues
Souls +25 when a plague is spread

LORD EFFECTS
Plague duration: +3 turns (local armies)
Battle healing cap: +25% (Lord’s Army)

Hello Total War: WARHAMMER fans! Over the past few weeks, months, and even YEARS, there’s been a healthy debate within the community as to how we approach the implementation of certain races in the Total War: WARHAMMER games. Nowhere has that been more apparent than the split between the Warriors of Chaos, the Daemons of Chaos, and the “Monogod” races (Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Khorne, and Nurgle).

With that discussion rising to the forefront following the reveal of the Champions of Chaos, we wanted to take a moment to sit down with our design team and get their thoughts on the process behind it. So today, we’re here to provide you with a clear picture of what, why, and how we’ve split the Lords of Chaos, as well as the role it will play in our forthcoming DLC!

(You ready for a super deep dive? Let’s go!)

CHAOS Q&A
WHY ARE THE FOUR NEW LEGENDARY LORDS CONSIDERED “WARRIORS OF CHAOS?”
With this being the first Warriors of Chaos Lords Pack since 2015, we wanted to reintroduce this iconic race in a way that was befitting of their infamous world-ending reputation. To that end, introducing four Legendary Lords—each of whom is aligned with one of the four Chaos Gods—was a flavorful way to start, particularly given that we already have two Undivided Lords in the form of Archaon and Kholek.

Beyond the flavor that each Champion could bring to this Lord’s Pack, we found that several design elements aligned exceptionally well with the revamped Warriors of Chaos mechanics. For instance, the vision for Azazel was that he’s been sent out into the world to find and lure promising Undivided champions into devoting themselves to Slaanesh. He’s basically an evil talent scout—a role implied as far back as Morkar the Uniter, who may have been persuaded along his path to become the first Everchosen way back in the days of Sigmar.

For some characters, it would have been very hard to find a niche for them in the Monogods roster. Festus is a good example here; he’s a durable Lore of Nurgle spellcaster who’s a master of brewing plagues…but how do you make him interesting alongside Ku’gath, who’s better at all those things in addition to throwing exploding Nurglings? The answer: put Festus in the Warriors and you’ve *immediately* got a combination of features that’s entirely unique!

Finally, this approach allowed us to push the quality of the pack far higher than we could have otherwise. Having the whole team laser-focused on a shared feature-set meant that every single playtest, improvement, and bug fix benefited all the characters rather than one.

It needs to be stressed, though, that even in this context, our goal was to create four Warriors of Chaos experiences that feel like Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, and Tzeentch—much in the same way that Wulfhart and the new Volkmar feel like Empire factions even though they don’t share the same mechanics as Karl Franz. These are true hybrids: drawing a ton of flavour and gameplay from their relevant Dark God. They’ll be fully capable of running armies that will look very much like the ones you’d see when playing as the relevant God-specific race…but with Dragon Ogres!

WHERE DOES THIS LEAVE THE ‘MONOGOD’ RACES OF KHORNE, SLAANESH, NURGLE, AND TZEENTCH?
It’s important to state: the new DLC characters existing within the Warriors of Chaos race DOES NOT prevent us from adding mortal characters to the Monogod rosters.

This is something we confront on a DLC-by-DLC basis. In some instances, mortal characters might fit better alongside a Daemon-focused roster or the Monogod mechanics; in others, the roster might end up with wildly different, bespoke feature-sets more appropriate to the given faction. Don’t worry; there are plenty of exciting characters who will be joining the Monogods in the future….

It’s also worth stressing that this pack will still massively transform the Monogod playstyle. In some cases, their rosters are almost doubling in size, with each God gaining a new hero and two lords to lead their armies, topped off by the ability to convert Mortal Lords into Daemon Princes. Even older heroes are getting updated: with Cultists now riding the new Warshrines into battle as mounts. Combined with a ton of balance changes and the new Immortal Empires starting positions, we’re pretty sure the Monogods will offer a ton of fresh, new experiences.

WHY ARE THERE TWO SLAANESH LEGENDARY LORDS IN THE WARRIORS OF CHAOS?
With hindsight, everything is much clearer…

It’s fair to say that if Sigvald hadn’t already been in the game since 2016, he would have (undoubtedly) been the Slaanesh Champion in Azazel’s place. Beyond that, we wanted to ensure that all four of the Dark Gods had representation within this pack in order to provide you with a larger variety of Legendary Lords to play at launch. Plus, we really like the Swiss Army Knife dynamism that Azazel brings to the roster!

Ultimately, our aim has been to ensure that both Slaaneshi Lords offer a distinct playstyle. As Azazel is a Daemon Prince, he has a narrower choice of units to recruit from, solely focusing on Undivided and Slaaneshi units, whilst Sigvald has the potential to branch out into units from all four pantheons and Undivided. That’s not to say you’ll see Sigvald leading armies of screaming Khornate berserkers or festering Nurgle-worshipers: due to the Dark Authority system (see below) Sigvald’s own personal retinue will maintain a distinctly Slaanesh flavour and he’ll need to do some delegation to others to efficiently maintain units devoted to other Gods. So, even though there’s only one Lord in the Slaanesh race, you’ve got three *very* different ways to play a Slaanesh-themed campaign.

HOW DO THE UNIT ROSTERS WORK IN A CAMPAIGN?
While the Warriors of Chaos can eventually access a truly vast array of mortal and daemonic units, it’s not just a case of constructing specific buildings and spewing out multicoloured units… Much like the lore, you’ll have to work hard to amass the forces of multiple Gods, and certain characters will find it easier (or more difficult) than others.

Every unit in the roster is treated as either a “Warband” unit or a “Gifted” unit. Warband units are your bread and butter: consisting of Mortal humans as well as the bulk of the Undivided monstrous units. Almost all of them can be “Marked”—an act that devotes them to a specific God and turns them into a new unit with new visuals, stats, and even new voice lines—though you can’t necessarily Mark a unit right from the start.

Gifted units are primarily Daemons accompanied by a few specialist, non-Daemonic units—such as Hellcannons and Shaggoths—and are recruited by spending Souls on Chaos Gifts (hence the name) or via certain special events. The catch? There’s a cap on the number of these “Gifted” units you can have in any given army; that is, unless you’re Be’lakor, who can recruit as many as he likes! Like Marks, these options aren’t necessarily available from the very start of your Campaign.

In fact, the specific conditions for unlocking these options is one of the key ways we’re differentiating the individual factions. For example:

Be’lakor can recruit a whole bunch of Gifted units from Turn 1 onward, but must unlock the ability to Mark mortals in his skill tree.
Sigvald can recruit Slaanesh mortals and Daemons from Turn 1 onward, but must wait to unlock other God’s forces. (Though he might struggle to keep Khornate units in check…)
Archaon can unlock the ability to recruit God-specific units and is best-suited to access and lead forces that mix-and-match with a bit of everything.
Kholek will have the hardest time getting access to God-specific units, but has easier access to Dragon Ogres and Dragon Ogre Shaggoths.
On top of these special conditions, a “Dark Authority” system restricts which units you can include in any given army. God-specific units won’t simply follow anyone… For example, if you want Nurgle followers or Daemons in your army, you’ll need a Nurgle lord or hero in the army to keep them in line; otherwise they’ll suffer from increased upkeep and reduced replenishment. And if you try and put Khorne units in an army with Slaanesh characters or (Gods forbid) a wizard, you’ll need to make sure there’s a proper Khornate character present to balance things out. We really want to sell the idea that these “Warbands” are perilous coalitions of rivals, forcing you (the player) to think carefully about how you your armies.

WHAT’S SPECIAL ABOUT THE NEW DLC LORDS?
Comparatively, the four new DLC Lords are almost akin to a sub-race within the Warriors: Lords who are more closely aligned to their specific God, and thus limited in their access to the full suite of Marked units in lieu of their patron God’s specific units alongside the Undivided. To accommodate this sacrifice, they instead gain a variety of specialist advantages:

They can start Marking Mortals and recruiting Daemons from Turn 1 and will find it both easier and cheaper to do so.
They share a uniquely structured tech tree—about half of which is built for their particular faction—that allows for more specialization in God-specific units and mechanics.
They spread (and benefit more from) their own God’s corruption, but are actively penalized by the corruption of an opposing God.
They get access to their God’s battle mechanics and army abilities.
They each get versions of certain Campaign features belonging to the main Daemon faction; for example: Festus can brew and spread plagues, but they have slightly different effects to Ku’gath’s.
There’s also a ton of other variations we’ve made where appropriate; for example, vassals belonging to the DLC lords will take on certain attributes from their masters: spreading their favoured corruption and gaining thematic bonuses in battle. They’ve even got unique ways to keep their troops in line; Festus, as an example, can get more Nurgle Authority by bestowing his armies with plagues, making it easier for him to put Nurgle troops in Undivided-led forces.

All in all, we’ve tried to make these four Champions feel different from the rest of the Warriors of Chaos. Our dialogue engineers have even gone so far as to ensure that units in these characters’ armies use different voice lines when led by one of the characters; you’ll hear Marauders and Warriors and Chosen in Azazel’s army shouting about their allegiance—not just to Slaanesh, but to Azazel himself!

On top of all that, they also participate in a brand-new Campaign set on the Realms of Chaos map, which offers a dramatic narrative following the main game’s Ursun storyline. It’s a nifty, alternate take on the Rifts system: one with more control in the leadup to a truly epic finale.

WHAT ABOUT CONFEDERATION?
Initially, the team were aiming for Archaon (at minimum) to be able to confederate all the Warriors of Chaos. However, there were some significant technical and balance issues that we were unable to resolve in the time we had to implement the rest of their feature overhauls. Given the technical issues, we were concerned that launching with confederation enabled could jeopardize the core experience of the Warriors of Chaos; as such, we chose to disable the option for the initial release of Immortal Empires.

With that said, we know that this is important to you, and will be looking to enable some form of confederation for the Warriors in a post-release patch. We’ll talk more about how we’ll aim to accomplish that feat in the future!

COMING SOON!
We hope this offers clarity into our design process and helps you understand where our four newest Legendary Lords are landing in the WARHAMMER III roster! As mentioned before, there’s still room for adjustments and changes, so we look forward to hearing what you think when you get your hands on them this August.

Check back next week for another look at an upcoming Champion, as well as more details about Immortal Empires!

Voss wrote:
Its embarrassing (for the ranting portion of the 'fanbase') that they had to explain this. The idea that everything would be limited to exactly X and Y (in army rosters and mechanics) forever because of the name at the top (warriors of chaos, daemons, monogod) was obviously false.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
1. People thought these four characters would be Daemons of Chaos units. They were WoC Lords in WHFB.