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 Canadian 5th wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
And it'll be ten years before you get anything else.

Show a ten-year gap in any range's release schedule, yes FW counts.

I don't know about 10 years specifically, but it has been 6 years from the last harlequin model release and 7 from the last tyranid model release, and Incubi/Banshees were the first drukhari and craftworld models in 5 years unless there was some kind of random one off character for craftworlds in 8th.

Also sisters were almost certainly 10 years, lol.

Go see 2 post ago from me, DE has not gotten a new UNIT in 11yrs, we have had units removed and nothing gained.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
And it'll be ten years before you get anything else.

Show a ten-year gap in any range's release schedule, yes FW counts.

IIRC I believe Dark Eldar qualify for 1999-2010, including FW (the Tantalus and Reaper came after their redesign, before that all they got was a couple flyers which I believe came out in 3E). Sister's of Battle I believe also qualify for at least 2003ish through relatively at least 2013 unless I'm forgetting something.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Go see 2 post ago from me, DE has not gotten a new UNIT in 11yrs, we have had units removed and nothing gained.

See, this is the internet, so what Canadian has done here is create a scenario where unless you can name a range that didn't get a MODEL in 10 years SPECIFICALLY then your argument is invalid and not true.

The fact that armies regularly wait 5+ years for any new models, or that Sisters and Inquisition and GK and Dark Eldar have definitely gone 10 years without models is irrelevant, or the fact that Drukhari have never actually goten a new unit either, that's irrelevant too.

Aye, and while many armies may get a few new models every couple of years, most go significant time without any actual new units.

Looking at what the Imperial Guard has gotten in recent years, for example, it's a couple limited release Catachan officers and the like. This doesn't hide the fact that IG hasn't really gotten any new Codex units in the last 8 years since their 6E Codex 8 years ago in 2013 (where they replaced the OOP Griffon with the newly-imagined Wyvern in the same role, created the Taurox, and added an armored Ogryn option). I think the only new 40k IG kit from FW in...at least a decade now, was the Carnodon HH tank that got 40k rules a few years ago, at least judging by what kits are still actually available from FW and going off memory. Meanwhile, they've seen a fair number of kits go OOP, and some units, characters, and wargear options simply disappear.

Amishprn86 wrote:DE is the ONLY army in the game that has not gotten a "NEW UNIT" (not a finecast to plastic but a new unit) sense its 5th Codex, its been 11yrs. Every army has gotten a new unit or 5+. the only other army with very little new units is GK's.

We're still a few months till Dark Eldar 5th's 11th anniversary, as it came out in November 2010. Previously, their 3rd to 5th gap for models was 1998 to 2010 (there was a codex update in 2003, but no models added).

the_scotsman wrote:Also sisters were almost certainly 10 years, lol.

Very true. They went from 3rd Edition to 7th Edition between model releases. Heck, they got their first plastic model only relatively recently. Before that they were entirely in metal.

There's a picture floating aroung on /tg/ showing off Eldar, Guard and Tyranid releases since 2014 compared to Marines.

Guard have 3 characters (one of which you could never actually buy)
Eldar have one character and one squad.
Tyranids have a bit on the base of a Guard character.

Marines have dozens and dozens.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 CommunistNapkin wrote:

 vipoid wrote:


Incidentally, since you brought it up, it bothers me that every other twin-linked weapon in the game got 2x shots in 8th.

Exterminator Autocannon says hello.

Wasnt it 2 shots rr hits in 5th and its 4 shots now, how is that not the double shot upgrade? Or am I remembering wrong?

You are remembering incorrectly. It was 4 twin-linked shots from 5th-7th. Now it is 4 shots, potentially firing twice with Grinding Advance.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There's a picture floating aroung on /tg/ showing off Eldar, Guard and Tyranid releases since 2014 compared to Marines.

Guard have 3 characters (one of which you could never actually buy)
Eldar have one character and one squad.
Tyranids have a bit on the base of a Guard character.

Marines have dozens and dozens.

There was also a thread showing the hard numbers of releases for marines compared to everyone else.
If somebody wants to dig it out and share it it will be a good laugh again. When you see the numbers you realise how pitiful it is..

 Argive wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There's a picture floating aroung on /tg/ showing off Eldar, Guard and Tyranid releases since 2014 compared to Marines.

Guard have 3 characters (one of which you could never actually buy)
Eldar have one character and one squad.
Tyranids have a bit on the base of a Guard character.

Marines have dozens and dozens.

There was also a thread showing the hard numbers of releases for marines compared to everyone else.
If somebody wants to dig it out and share it it will be a good laugh again. When you see the numbers you realise how pitiful it is..

Here's that chart.



And as it's from June/July it doesn't even count post-Indomitus releases like the upcoming Heavy Intercessors, so it's even worse now. On top of that, did the Death Guard get any new units other than the Lord of Virulence? Genuinely asking, I don't follow Nurgle too closely.

EDIT: Huh. Where's Chaos on this chart? I can't imagine they're lumped in with the Generic Marines, and the Chapter Specific Marines colors all account for loyalists.

EDIT EDIT: Also a named list of the Marine releases since the last time Nids got models.

 CEO Kasen wrote:
EDIT: Huh. Where's Chaos on this chart? I can't imagine they're lumped in with the Generic Marines, and the Chapter Specific Marines colors all account for loyalists.

Especially with all the Daemon product that has come out in that time. Of course, Daemon product generally releases for Fantasy/Age of Sigmar mostly, too.

 CEO Kasen wrote:
EDIT: Huh. Where's Chaos on this chart? I can't imagine they're lumped in with the Generic Marines, and the Chapter Specific Marines colors all account for loyalists.

If you had chaos marines on this list, it would demolish the narration this troll picture pushes. Since beginning of 7th, you had update of WE, two waves of TS, GIGANTIC pile of DG, some Slaaneshi models (with far more incoming), and second gigantic pile of generic CSM. If the picture shown this (and split off primaris, which are de facto a new army not just standalone release, into their own column) the SM side would look pitiful in comparison, which is the exact opposite of manufactured thesis.

If you also add daemons - with huge pile of Khorne, TWO huge piles of Nurgle, also two of Tz, huge pile of Slaanesh (second incoming), plus the ruinstorm from FW and neutral demons from AoS, the above nonsense would be utterly annihilated. Which is what the troll who made the picture doesn't want, so they aren't shown. Simples.

Also, you really should delete one-off celebration models that were available for one day (like Amulus), in USA only for a week (Centos), or in UK in OOP newspaper (whatever guy in Conquest) off the chart, but then real number for SM would be like 1/4 lower and again wouldn't fit the narrative, sooo...

Except the picture is comparing Xenos to Marines.

What would adding Chaos accomplish exactly? They're neither Xenos nor Marines.

Duh.

That chart is Finecast to plastic combine with new units. Take out the plastic re sculpts and it is even worst for many armies (Gk's, DE, etc..).

DE is mad b.c we have had many characters taken away, a unit almost every DE player used, and then we asked for plastic Grots and we get 3 plastic HQ's (which we didn't want) at leat we got plastic Incubi and wracks but GW had to b.c every order was so bad they had ot send out a free replacement (All 40 of my finecast wracks/incubi are broken, just about 1/2 are broken twice).

I didn't want a plastic Archon, no DE player did, we wanted out other HQ's back, we wanted out Elites back, we wanted plastic Grots. Why does every other army get many HQ's and their elite upgrade unit from troops but DE can't. Why legends a unit that shares the Kabal kit? SoB shares many kits with BSS.....

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Except the picture is comparing Xenos to Marines.

What would adding Chaos accomplish exactly? They're neither Xenos nor Marines.

Duh.

I'm just curious. If there had historically been an 18-month period of infuriatingly frequent CSM releases to the exclusion of all else, I wanted to have that part of the picture too.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Except the picture is comparing Xenos to Marines.

What would adding Chaos accomplish exactly? They're neither Xenos nor Marines.

Technically, Daemons are Xenos to the reality in which the Imperium and the rest of the Xenos reside.

This just proves that every faction should be treated like orks
IMO they get just the right amount of attention - some new releases every few years, without overwhelming you with stuff you are never going to be able to afford.

 CEO Kasen wrote:
On top of that, did the Death Guard get any new units other than the Lord of Virulence? Genuinely asking, I don't follow Nurgle too closely.

They also got the terrain piece, plus a few releases which are just single DI sprues at four to five times their original price.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
<snip>

Please feel free to ask this fellow about infantry to tank communications: https://www.facebook.com/TheChieftainWargaming

Or watch any of his videos about what life as a tanker is actually like.

Does he live in 40k years in the future with these space tanks ? If so, I'd be delighted to talk to him, otherwise all I have to go off of is logic. They have super space radios. Some of the tanks even have those little tank phones, if they don't do anything why are they even there ? I mean it is a game universe in which red makes you go faster but people can't communicate vehicle to vehicle even if in countless stories they do just that ? Weird !

 Charistoph wrote:

 CEO Kasen wrote:
EDIT: Huh. Where's Chaos on this chart? I can't imagine they're lumped in with the Generic Marines, and the Chapter Specific Marines colors all account for loyalists.

Especially with all the Daemon product that has come out in that time. Of course, Daemon product generally releases for Fantasy/Age of Sigmar mostly, too.

I'm kinda curious if that chart includes event models or not - and why the tit that put it together has listed "Imperial Guard" as "Gue'vasa", a faction that doesn't exist.

I mean, since 2014 there've been at least four IG characters released in some form or another that I can think of, even if one of them was on stupidly-restricted access.

- Sly Marbo
- Severina Raine
- Ripper Jackson
- Colonel-from-Predator-whose-name-I-forget

I also wonder where the two =][= that've seen release are meant to feature, or the Custodes, the SoB, etc - someone is definitely presenting data in a selective way to spin a particular narrative, not in an honest way, which would include the full picture, as well as confirming what hasn't been included.

Side note - they said that the figures are meant to include previews, so I would think the HI & Speeders might be included, as they were initially previewed quite a way back.

Regarding DG, they got a character and a terrain piece alongside the 'dex - though you could factor in SMH3 to pad that a bit.

 Jidmah wrote:
This just proves that every faction should be treated like orks
IMO they get just the right amount of attention - some new releases every few years, without overwhelming you with stuff you are never going to be able to afford.

 CEO Kasen wrote:
On top of that, did the Death Guard get any new units other than the Lord of Virulence? Genuinely asking, I don't follow Nurgle too closely.

They also got the terrain piece, plus a few releases which are just single DI sprues at four to five times their original price.

That would be nice. Orks get a lot more models then my dudes do, and terrain and vehicles too.

I mean it is a game universe in which red makes you go faster but people can't communicate vehicle to vehicle even if in countless stories they do just that ?

I never understood this argument. Red including opposing armies stuff, goes faster, because orks are a psychic race, and the combined emanation of their psychic pushs stuff around. they are so powerful psykers, when there is enough of them around, that they are able to shot guns without ammo or energy packs, or teleport over large distances with machines that have the utility of christmas lights for any other race.

I think people greatly exaggerate the psychic effect of the Orks, I admit the last Ork codex I read was 5th edition but it hardly mentioned it, if at all.
Besides, if Orks did operate on 100% psychic weapons Nulls would absolutely destroy a Waagh! Stick a few Sisters of Silence on Armaggeddon and suddenly there's just a pile of scrap metal, problem solved.
Which doesn't happen and suggests that Orks aren't reliant on latent psychic powers.
I believe it's just one of those things that's been hyped up in meme culture/whatever, rather than based in any reality.

Orks were created at the same time as eldar, they should be at least as powerful psykers as them.

And yes if someone was able to gather a million of psychic nulls, somehow transport them without the navigators mind melting, and drop them on a bilion strong ork invesion force it would be an interesting thing to look at. The problem with nulls is that they are rare, very hard to breed, because males are killed by local populations very fast, and females don't fare much better. And on top of it all good old Abbadon is now starting null hunts, to kill them off starting with the sisters of silence.

Now we can of course say that all lore is subjectives, but then there is nothing to argue about, and the forum should just close, but there is writen text about how they do such stuff. gignatic mass grow in matter of 24h, shoting guns without barrel holes or without ammo actualy having a way to get inside the gun. And they do make machines that are just lights, function, and other races can only dream about something like having a working tellyporta. The problem with orks, or for orks, is that they do not know the exact numbers of orks in an area to make specific stuff work, so they will try to make a stompa and then force it to move, even if there aren't enough orks in the area to make it possible, and the darn thing just explodes.

Karol wrote:
Orks were created at the same time as eldar, they should be at least as powerful psykers as them.

And yes if someone was able to gather a million of psychic nulls, somehow transport them without the navigators mind melting, and drop them on a bilion strong ork invesion force it would be an interesting thing to look at. The problem with nulls is that they are rare, very hard to breed, because males are killed by local populations very fast, and females don't fare much better. And on top of it all good old Abbadon is now starting null hunts, to kill them off starting with the sisters of silence.

Now we can of course say that all lore is subjectives, but then there is nothing to argue about, and the forum should just close, but there is writen text about how they do such stuff. gignatic mass grow in matter of 24h, shoting guns without barrel holes or without ammo actualy having a way to get inside the gun. And they do make machines that are just lights, function, and other races can only dream about something like having a working tellyporta. The problem with orks, or for orks, is that they do not know the exact numbers of orks in an area to make specific stuff work, so they will try to make a stompa and then force it to move, even if there aren't enough orks in the area to make it possible, and the darn thing just explodes.

Going to need a citation on Failbadon going on a Sisters of silence hunt.

Also it's not that male nulls are killed more than female nulls it's eluded to them being rarer in SoS fluff.

Navigators can function with a significant number of SoS around them or Astra telepathica Blackships wouldn't be able to (yes I realise they used to be called inquisition but the retcon to being astra telepathica actually makes more sence than inquisition) gather up all the untrained psychers and travel the warp to sol with any level of success. Given they need to keep throwing hundred of psychers at the astronimicon regularly this obviously has to be a fairly reliable source.

Orks were at a point in fluff supposedly created as part of the war in heaven, however they were designed to be different to Eldar, if 1 design isn't working why would doubling down on a second extremely psychic race be a good idea.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I think people greatly exaggerate the psychic effect of the Orks, I admit the last Ork codex I read was 5th edition but it hardly mentioned it, if at all.
Besides, if Orks did operate on 100% psychic weapons Nulls would absolutely destroy a Waagh! Stick a few Sisters of Silence on Armaggeddon and suddenly there's just a pile of scrap metal, problem solved.
Which doesn't happen and suggests that Orks aren't reliant on latent psychic powers.
I believe it's just one of those things that's been hyped up in meme culture/whatever, rather than based in any reality.

This. The ork "Waaagh! Energy" doesn't make impossible things happen, it acts as warp-grease in motors, weapons and other things, plus it unlocks the potential stored in the ork's genetic code, which is nigh unlimited.

It allows you to go slightly faster, shoot slightly more bullets than you have and cause slightly larger explosions. It doesn't make a vehicle without a functional engine move, doesn't allow a gun without bullets/magazines to shoot and it doesn't allow a rock painted yellow to explode, no matter how many orks believe that it does.

And no, orks are nothing like eldar. That's the whole point. Anything eldar can't overcome through precision, knowledge and skills honed to perfection, orks can crush through sheer masses and resourcefulness.

Also it's not that male nulls are killed more than female nulls it's eluded to them being rarer in SoS fluff.

that is litteraly what I read in my dads WD. That male nulls are often killed after birth. Females ones aren't always killed, byt their lifes aren't very fun either.

Going to need a citation on Failbadon going on a Sisters of silence hunt.

It is mentioned in one of the newer books. Alerias, I think that it is her name, the one who is friend with custodes guy, had her convent destroyed by Abadon, and she says that his black legion is targeting the other non black ship living sisters of silence.

Navigators can function with a significant number of SoS around them or Astra telepathica Blackships wouldn't be able to (yes I realise they used to be called inquisition but the retcon to being astra telepathica actually makes more sence than inquisition) gather up all the untrained psychers and travel the warp to sol with any level of success.

yes, but it is still in limited numbers. It is like turning off the hive mind. Technicaly possible, but you don't have enough nulls in the entire imperium to pull it off on a splinter fleet.

So many nulls in one place would create huge problems for ship crews. And yes on black ships they have crews that had to work for generations with SoS, to transport that many nulls you would have riots on ships. Same with navigotors, crewing the black ships, those aren't random picked navigators, but ones picked from houses that worked with the black ships since the time they were created. And even if you were to transport them all on a fleet of black ships, and it wouldn't create distruptions to feeding the throne, different branches of telepathica, inquisition and marines, you would still have to do an imperium wide sweep of nulls in the first place. It just wouldn't work, those people would have to be found, not killed and then transported on regular ships to be transfered to camps, from which black ships could pick them up.

Orks were at a point in fluff supposedly created as part of the war in heaven, however they were designed to be different to Eldar, if 1 design isn't working why would doubling down on a second extremely psychic race be a good idea.

Because the old ones were losing the war. It is the same as germany durning WWI they didn't stop at one of deadly gas

The 5th edition Ork codex said that Ork DNA held an extremely high amount of instinctive knowledge about various topics, but this could only be accessed by rare mutations.
So if an Ork is born with the mutation to access the engineering knowledge in the DNA, you've got a Mekboy. If they have the mutation to access the medical instincts, you've got a Painboy.
None of the Orks know how they know, they can just pick up a bunch of scrap and instinctively build a Shoota.
The more Orks in a Waaagh the more of them have these mutations and some individuals can access even more. Eventually you get enough Orks together that you've got enough Mekboys to figure out how to put together a Stompa.

... and eventually they figure out how to tellyport attack moons right into orbit of holy terra

I don't think that there is ever an explanation of what exactly is this "Ork power". We assume that it is related to the warp in some way, which means psy powers, but it is not a given.

There are powers in the 40K universe that cannot be explained with warp or material sources, so there are more sources of power out there.

The Anzion theory with the orks was always presented as an in universe imperial view, not the actual truth. It was a tech priest (ie. an ignorant luddite) trying to explain why an alien he considered stupid could have produced tech he doesn't understand.

The truth is Orks aren't stupid and are capable of producing tech far better than the Imperium, they just have a very particular outlook on life that Imperials perceive as stupid.

You mean the watchers of the throne series.
Her name is Aleya, though the book doesn't actually state quite what your inferring.

All nulls face a large risk of being killed between birth and adolescence that's not gender specific.
Also you don't breed nulls the way your describing, please go read the books.