Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Drukhari articles are starting, must be announced for pre-order on Sunday

https://www.warhammer-community.com

+1 attack across the board for warriors



Splinter cannons are D2

I'm guessing they're pre-empting a rules sheet leak from the new boxes. Wasn't expecting +1 attack or 4+ saves.
How do splinter cannons on Venoms look vs dual splinter rifles now mathhammerers?

It was always strange to me that kabalites saved at 5+ with that full eldar armor. 4+ save looks better for them.

Huh. Completely missed the armour increase.


Wait......doesn’t that make them Trueborn?

SV 4+ Kabalites, why, yes please, finally a unit that does not drop to plebian standards for paying it's due as soon as it is faced with a primaris boltgun.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Huh. Completely missed the armour increase.


Wait......doesn’t that make them Trueborn?

With legends, Trueborn have 2 attacks, 5+ armor, 4 specials and 2 heavies.

I'm really excited so far by these changes. Playing a Crusade with Dark Eldar at the FLGS and running a lot of splinter cannons and warriors already. And Incubi are getting better as well.

The new splinter cannon looks pretty bad tbh.

Heavy 3 means -1 to hit on any INFANTRY carrier (Scourges, Kabalites) and 3 shots damage 2 vs 6 shots damage 1 just means it's easier for special unit abilities like DG -1 damage and necron res prots to counter them. Frankly I liked that drukhari splinter cannons were rapid fire as it played into their "high risk high reward' army plastyle of the fact that their main basic vehicle cannon had an optimal range of 18" as opposed to most armies where that was 30-36".

4+sv and 2A on warriors is kind of fun. Anyone have any images of those new statlines to share from new boxes by any chance?

-1 AP is new on splinter cannons as well.
It looks like Splinter cannons are being slotted into the new "heavy infantry killer" role instead of " horde shredder" like before. I'm going to guess big shoota will do the same for orks. It's actually nice to see it change into a mid role, as before, kabalites were basically either AP- Dam 1 poison, or S8 AP -4 Dam d6, with only the Disintegrator in the middle.

Also dont heavy weapons on infantry become assault inside of a raider for sweet sweet boat broadsides?

Well new Splinter Cannon is just okay but not an auto include. But better news is +1A and +1Save and as unit leader has +1 more attack then it makes it more appealing to actually arm it with something.

Now I just wonder what they are going to do with dark lance. It is supposed to be pretty powerful.

Sotahullu wrote:
Well new Splinter Cannon is just okay but not an auto include. But better news is +1A and +1Save and as unit leader has +1 more attack then it makes it more appealing to actually arm it with something.

Now I just wonder what they are going to do with dark lance. It is supposed to be pretty powerful.

Honestly dark lance is fine as is. Maybe make void lance Dam d3 +3?

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
Also dont heavy weapons on infantry become assault inside of a raider for sweet sweet boat broadsides?

Not by the current rules. Only weapons mounted on drukhari vehicles become assault rather than heavy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
-1 AP is new on splinter cannons as well.
It looks like Splinter cannons are being slotted into the new "heavy infantry killer" role instead of " horde shredder" like before. I'm going to guess big shoota will do the same for orks. It's actually nice to see it change into a mid role, as before, kabalites were basically either AP- Dam 1 poison, or S8 AP -4 Dam d6, with only the Disintegrator in the middle.

That may have been a useful thing to do if they hadn't halved the shots at the range that the rest of your squad is going to be engaging at. Venoms and Kabalites are both still going to be trying to get within 12"

Marines would rather be shot at by a weapon with D2 and half the shots vs a weapon with D1, because marines have tons of W3 models as well as FNP abilities, -1 damage abilities, etc.

I really like these changes and making Splinter Cannon a W2 killer makes sense as it provides Drukhari with some intermediary level weapons.

All the changes listed today are making me excited for the final reveal.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Drukhari articles are starting, must be announced for pre-order on Sunday

Most likely the following Sunday, as they’re still on fortnightly releases and we had a pre-order announcement yesterday.

Dark Eldar can probably share a release with some specialist games stuff, since it is just a book, cards, and probably the box set vs sisters.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I really like these changes and making Splinter Cannon a W2 killer makes sense as it provides Drukhari with some intermediary level weapons.

All the changes listed today are making me excited for the final reveal.

Are people really missing that this change is 6 shots D1 to 3 shots D2?

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
Also dont heavy weapons on infantry become assault inside of a raider for sweet sweet boat broadsides?

Only when mounted on the vehicle itself

the_scotsman wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
I really like these changes and making Splinter Cannon a W2 killer makes sense as it provides Drukhari with some intermediary level weapons.

All the changes listed today are making me excited for the final reveal.

Are people really missing that this change is 6 shots D1 to 3 shots D2?

Yep almost no one seems to remember Splinter cannons are Rapid Fire 3 wich means the new version wants to stay at range and into an open topped vehicle for maximum mobilty and firepower.


Now if GW surprises us with the return of Trueborn units with melee and range choices this can be quite a impactful change.

So the new splinter cannon is just a heavy bolter that’ll never wound on a 3. Wish they’d just left it as it was.

Remember that you will likely only have a single splinter cannon per squad too if you are mounting them in raiders.

The kabalite box comes with 1 of each special weapon, and we have seen from DG that the unit options match what is in the box.

I don't play DE so maybe they are already limited to 1 per 10 anyway?

Doohicky wrote:
Remember that you will likely only have a single splinter cannon per squad too if you are mounting them in raiders.

The kabalite box comes with 1 of each special weapon, and we have seen from DG that the unit options match what is in the box.

I don't play DE so maybe they are already limited to 1 per 10 anyway?

They are.

The only build I see as particularly 'at risk' in the potential DGification of Kabalite warriors is 10-man with 2 Specials.

....but you can take 1 special in a 5-man so who cares.

wict01 wrote:
So the new splinter cannon is just a heavy bolter that’ll never wound on a 3. Wish they’d just left it as it was.

Against T6+ it's better than a Heavy Bolter though.

 Blackie wrote:

wict01 wrote:
So the new splinter cannon is just a heavy bolter that’ll never wound on a 3. Wish they’d just left it as it was.

Against T6+ it's better than a Heavy Bolter though.

It's also -1 ap now which is also an improvement.

 Blackie wrote:

wict01 wrote:
So the new splinter cannon is just a heavy bolter that’ll never wound on a 3. Wish they’d just left it as it was.

Against T6+ it's better than a Heavy Bolter though.

+1 to wound vs T6 non-vehicle targets

-1 to wound vs T4 targets
-1 to wound vs T3 targets
-1 to wound vs T5 vehicle targets
-1 to wound vs T6+ vehicle targets

Kind of not a great combo. It needs to either be significantly less effective or, IMO, have some other rule that grants it a bonus against the kind of 'soft organic targets' that the SC is supposed to be good at killing.

I'd put forth that re-instanting the old "if your Poison Weapon has Strength equal to the T of the target, you get reroll to wound" would make the comparison slightly more equivalent, as it would effectively have "+1/2 to wound vs T3 targets" to somewhat make up for its other shortcomings.

Oh man, an extra attack on a S3 shooting unit! That's so... indifferent. I hope they don't have to pay for that.

And their signature heavy weapon now encourages the infantry units to form an immobile gunline. And worse against a lot of units it used to be good against! 100% tested against the meta-warp of 2W marines, but all other armies were apparently forgotten.

4+ save is an actual improvement.

Can you tell me what the new poisoned rule for DE then please as you seem to already know.

All we know so far is poisoned(4+) and the weapon has a strength value.

This is different from existing as splinter cannon has no strength.

All we KNOW for sure is that it has poisoned(4+) and the stat line. We don't know that it only works against non vehicle models still, we don't know if it gets re-rolls if against lower strength now.
I assume we will learn these things in another warcom report later this week or next.

Glad about the better armour, they really needed that. +1A though... Far as I'm concerned, if they see melee in the first place then gak's gone badly wrong...

Why is people ignoring the -1ap in the new version of the weapon?

Thats like... a not irrelevant change. The old weapon was useless outside the coven +1 to wound and +1 damage strat.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
I really like these changes and making Splinter Cannon a W2 killer makes sense as it provides Drukhari with some intermediary level weapons.

All the changes listed today are making me excited for the final reveal.

Are people really missing that this change is 6 shots D1 to 3 shots D2?

3xD2 shots with Ap -1 are going to provide better usage than the current Rapid Fire 3 of S1 Poison with no AP. This way I might actually put one in a kabalite squad(unless they decide to charge too many points for them).

It is also good to remember that the Rapid 3 procced on less than 18" in range which often resulted in getting your venoms into range of stuff that could threaten them. With this change you can potentially kite your venoms better. Are you going to lose some shots against W1 things? Yes, but considering that Marines of all sorts are "the thing" in the game I think the new version is going to be more useful and allow you to fit the venom in a more dedicated ranged role.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
Why is people ignoring the -1ap in the new version of the weapon?

Thats like... a not irrelevant change. The old weapon was useless outside the coven +1 to wound and +1 damage strat.

Exactly this.

I have ton of Splinter Cannons that have been useless for a long time now due the original Rapid 3 change. With this - depending on cost - I might actually use Splinter Cannons in 5-mans in Splinter Cannon Venoms. Damn, I am getting flashback to the 5th edition Codex army.

 Galas wrote:
Why is people ignoring the -1ap in the new version of the weapon?

Thats like... a not irrelevant change. The old weapon was useless outside the coven +1 to wound and +1 damage strat.

Because it comes at a cost of halving the number of shots. That's a high cost for -1 AP, especially in a world where 'nah, we don't care about -1 AP' is a contagious ability among GW codex writers..

Combined with swapping to heavy, it isn't a cut and dry change. More a lateral shift that gives too much weight to fighting marines. It isn't irrelevant, but its suddenly a very different gun. A weird snowflake heavy bolter.