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 Niiai wrote:
If the points on the field manual are the costs we will be seeing then a 2 splinter cannon vyvern would cost 75 points. (Or 85. I just asumed the first splinter cannon was baked into the price. Excuse me if I am wrong.)

Those points for a '2 heavy bolter razorback' is not bad is it? Not good either, but certanly in the ball park. A twin bolter razorback is 110.

It's 85. You have to pay for both Splinter cannons.

Man i think that article is a sign of things to come... One word springs to mind: Uninspired.

I would LOVE to be wrong but it just seems like the DE will be the footnote army for the release of new shiny imperial SOB models punchbag models..

It just seems like whoever wrote that was trying really hard to make a turn sound delicious..

 Argive wrote:
Man i think that article is a sign of things to come... One word springs to mind: Uninspired.

I would LOVE to be wrong but it just seems like the DE will be the footnote army for the release of new shiny imperial SOB models punchbag models..

It just seems like whoever wrote that was trying really hard to make a turn sound delicious..

This seems a bit doomer. We're not even to the actual preview week for DE.

 Argive wrote:
Man i think that article is a sign of things to come... One word springs to mind: Uninspired.

Sums up every Drukhari codex for a decade. 5th edition saw a complete reinvention of the army, but since then the rules designers haven't really known what to do.

Is nobody else really bothered by the fact Kabalites went to a 4+?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Is nobody else really bothered by the fact Kabalites went to a 4+?

Is that not a good thing?

I'm glad DE are getting more dangerous. Causing damage in 9th is really hard, and it takes forever to kill anything.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Is nobody else really bothered by the fact Kabalites went to a 4+?

It was always absurd that a full body ancient hypertech suit was no better than IG flak armour. I hope that craftworld Guardians get this too.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Is nobody else really bothered by the fact Kabalites went to a 4+?

Kabalite Warrior
Please explain to me, visually, why these units don't have the same save? Then we can discuss why the Eldar send their warriors out to fight in bad armor.

 alextroy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Is nobody else really bothered by the fact Kabalites went to a 4+?

Kabalite Warrior

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Guardian

Spoiler:

Banshee

Please explain to me, visually, why these units don't have the same save? Then we can discuss why the Eldar send their warriors out to fight in bad armor.

Because not all armor is created equal, duh. This isn't some esoteric reasoning. Guard Infantry really aren't that less armored compared to Scions but there ya go, two different saves.

The point of Dark Eldar is the gakky armor and relying on the open topped transports for shooting and ease of assault. It's literally against the theme.

Don't the DE Armour come with internal hooks and needles to keep them in pain? Or is that retconner out. Perhaps it fits better?

Mostly it is just game balance. Or lack thereof. Perhaps sisters power Armour changes to 2 wounds as well?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Is nobody else really bothered by the fact Kabalites went to a 4+?

Kabalite Warrior

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Guardian

Spoiler:

Banshee

Please explain to me, visually, why these units don't have the same save? Then we can discuss why the Eldar send their warriors out to fight in bad armor.

Because not all armor is created equal, duh. This isn't some esoteric reasoning. Guard Infantry really aren't that less armored compared to Scions but there ya go, two different saves.

The point of Dark Eldar is the gakky armor and relying on the open topped transports for shooting and ease of assault. It's literally against the theme.

Not all armour is created equal, some is just superior because it's built by more advanced aliens.

Just because you have your own personal definition of what dark eldar are, doesn't mean you're the arbiter of what their 'theme' is.

We don't know what their power through pain rules are going to be either, but somehow being able to tank lascannons is ok so long as their armour is crap?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Is nobody else really bothered by the fact Kabalites went to a 4+?

Kabalite Warrior

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Guardian

Spoiler:

Banshee

Please explain to me, visually, why these units don't have the same save? Then we can discuss why the Eldar send their warriors out to fight in bad armor.

Because not all armor is created equal, duh. This isn't some esoteric reasoning. Guard Infantry really aren't that less armored compared to Scions but there ya go, two different saves.

Really? I'm pretty sure one of these suits of armor provide a lot more protection than the other.
Tempestus Scion
Infantry Squad

The point of Dark Eldar is the gakky armor and relying on the open topped transports for shooting and ease of assault. It's literally against the theme.

Was. I think you are missing the word was. Kinda like how Guardians used to have a worst WS/BS than Aspect Warrior until they didn't. Or how Scouts used to have worst WS/BS than full Marines. Or how Space Marines used to have 1 Wound. I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

I really hope that the +1 attack bonus really is across the board for all infantry. It would go a long way to making Wyches, Incubi, and the Archon viable (although I think they could all use an always-strikes-first ability too). I know that Incubi won't get better saves, and doubt Wyches will either, but I'm fairly certain the Archon will.

What do you guys think the chances are that they will bring back lesser HQ's? Also, I know expanding the weapons options for Dark Eldar is little more than a pipe dream, but it would be nice.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I really hope that the +1 attack bonus really is across the board for all infantry. It would go a long way to making Wyches, Incubi, and the Archon viable (although I think they could all use an always-strikes-first ability too). I know that Incubi won't get better saves, and doubt Wyches will either, but I'm fairly certain the Archon will.

What do you guys think the chances are that they will bring back lesser HQ's? Also, I know expanding the weapons options for Dark Eldar is little more than a pipe dream, but it would be nice.

None. We'd have seen models by this point, even if only by potato cam or rumour engine. And without models... nope, not happening.

---
Incubi already got their preview back in november
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/21/warhammer-preview-online-decadence-decay/

Spoiled for size:


2+ WS, higher strength on weapons, damage 2. There's a theme afoot.

I actually like the change to the splinter canon mostly for being different. Personally I wanted splinter weapons to gain strength and AP back, which they did, unfortunately I didn't get my wish that poison would work like deathwatch as just add 1 to the wound roll, thus allowing for splinter canons to be higher strength out the gate.

However, had they remained 12 max shots at ap -1 with some sort of poison bonus, they would have just bullied the worst units in the game which are not even a problem for the army to begin with. Seriously who the hell has a problem mulching through GEQ with DE?

What always has been a pain in the arse is killing power armor out from cover. Even when marines were single wound. With the second wound this task became slapstick comedy.

So at least now splinter canons make some sense. Nobody ever bothered taking them even back in 5th when they were good except on units where they had no other choice really (venoms).

If splinter rifles and pistols are all functionally the same as they are now except -1 AP that will more adequately mulch chaf.

I'm curious what they did to the disintegrator canon personally, because they must have done something, and my gut tells me it will be S6 in order to make it more in line with star canons. They could also be blast now considering thats what they originally were way back.

Either way at least they seem to be bold about changing up gear for a change. Makes me hopeful for wych and wrack weapons and heaven forbid the poor bastard Cronos.

Really looking forward to seeing the weapon options for Scourges.


"One in 5 Scourges may take a Dark Lance. One in 5 Scourges may take a Haywire Blaster... etc."

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Really looking forward to seeing the weapon options for Scourges.


"One in 5 Scourges may take a Dark Lance. One in 5 Scourges may take a Haywire Blaster... etc."

Nah, they want people buying 4 boxes for a loadout- see Havocs.

I was curious about the new Splinter Cannon versus the Old Splinter Cannon, so I ran the numbers for a few scenarios, assuming Poison does what it does now:

Old Splinter Cannon vs Sv 3+: 0.33 Wounds, Double within 18"

New Splinter Cannon vs Sv 3+: 1 Wound, 0.75 if you moved

Old Splinter Cannon vs Sv 4+: 0.5 Wounds, Double within 18"

New Splinter Cannon vs Sv 4+: 1.33 Wounds, 1 if you moved

Old Splinter Cannon vs Sv 5+: 0.67 Wounds, Double within 18"

New Splinter Cannon vs Sv 5+: 1.67 Wounds, 1.25 if you moved

You also have to half the wounds done by the New Splinter Cannon vs W1 (or -1 Damage) targets. Even then, the new splinter cannon is at worst a side grade if not a flat out buff to the weapon.

Sometimes it seems that GW does know what they are doing, at least twice a day

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Really looking forward to seeing the weapon options for Scourges.


"One in 5 Scourges may take a Dark Lance. One in 5 Scourges may take a Haywire Blaster... etc."

You would have to assume that would even remotely be a surprise to most DE players. DE were the first faction ground into the dirt by box options 7 years ago, apparently nobody was paying attention to see the writing on the wall.

Alright, cool we got info but I have to ask, why make the splinter cannon heavy when your troops want to be mobile ? I get perhaps they put themselves into a corner as they didn't want to make it seem like just a better Heavy bolter but it just feels wrong to me.

Granted I also think its wrong scourges can't move and shoot heavies without penalty as they feel like such a strange unit otherwise maybe that'll be seen to ? I wouldn't hold my breath of course.

I don't know just feels bad the SC being a heavy, to me personally. Like the hot shot volley gun being a heavy for scions, makes it just feel out of place in the squad considering what they are supposed to do, stay mobile.

Got to be honest here, the pun in the title is of excellent grade quality, and not a single mention... You nerds to preoccupied with theory hammer.... This place has changed...

I wouldn't be surprised to see Scourges pick up a rule that allows them to move and shoot Heavy weapons without penalty.

Having said that, the Ugliest Primaris Unit in the Game also has Heavy weapons and a jump pack, but no rule getting around the penalty, so who knows...

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Really looking forward to seeing the weapon options for Scourges.


"One in 5 Scourges may take a Dark Lance. One in 5 Scourges may take a Haywire Blaster... etc."

Nah, they want people buying 4 boxes for a loadout- see Havocs.

Like they want you to buy 2 boxes plague marines for　loadout?

 Dysartes wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see Scourges pick up a rule that allows them to move and shoot Heavy weapons without penalty.

Having said that, the Ugliest Primaris Unit in the Game also has Heavy weapons and a jump pack, but no rule getting around the penalty, so who knows...

I really would like to see someyhing like that. Back in the old days (around pre 4th edition) many of the codexes had very limited design space, and that made units very unique. The Dark Eldar got heavy weapon jump infantery. That was cool as hell! The model was also very rough and menacing. These days I think only SM have taken up that design space, and some of the obscure eldar aspect warriors. I would like to see the return of scourges.

Also, look at that old illustration picture. So cool.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Really looking forward to seeing the weapon options for Scourges.


"One in 5 Scourges may take a Dark Lance. One in 5 Scourges may take a Haywire Blaster... etc."

Nah, they want people buying 4 boxes for a loadout- see Havocs.

Not took a peek in the DG codex recently, then?

I've said this elsewhere but I think it bears repeating:

Venom with 2 old Splinter Cannons in RF vs. Old Marines: 1.33 dead Marines.
Venom with 2 new Splinter Cannons vs. New Marines: 1 dead Marine.

Boy, I sure am glad Splinter Cannons have been "upgraded" to be "Marine-killing weapons".

 vipoid wrote:
I've said this elsewhere but I think it bears repeating:

Venom with 2 old Splinter Cannons in RF vs. Old Marines: 1.33 dead Marines.
Venom with 2 new Splinter Cannons vs. New Marines: 1 dead Marine.

Boy, I sure am glad Splinter Cannons have been "upgraded" to be "Marine-killing weapons".

but you missed out:
Venom with 2 old Splinter Cannons outside RF vs. Old Marines: 0.667 dead Marines.

Those marines also cost slightly more points, while splinter cannons are seemingly unchanged between 8E and 9E.

Also who are you quoting? Neither of those quotes were in the warcom article.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Really looking forward to seeing the weapon options for Scourges.


"One in 5 Scourges may take a Dark Lance. One in 5 Scourges may take a Haywire Blaster... etc."

Nah, they want people buying 4 boxes for a loadout- see Havocs.

Not took a peek in the DG codex recently, then?

SM devastators and many other units with possible multiple loadouts didn't follow that trend though.

DG units that got affected by the changes still work very well, scourges could become useless if they take the same route.

 Niiai wrote:

Also, look at that old illustration picture. So cool.

Thats a bloodletter with wings. Change my mind.

 vipoid wrote:
I've said this elsewhere but I think it bears repeating:

Venom with 2 old Splinter Cannons in RF vs. Old Marines: 1.33 dead Marines.
Venom with 2 new Splinter Cannons vs. New Marines: 1 dead Marine.

Boy, I sure am glad Splinter Cannons have been "upgraded" to be "Marine-killing weapons".

Thats a stretch of logic. Nu-marines are here to stay with their 2 wounds, its a new design paradigm, complaining about this is just pointless and dumb.