Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Tyel wrote:
Scourge look fine everyone. Stand down.

Do you have a scourge sheet? I havent got that one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im rrally curious about many of the non- character units tbh

I'm hoping Scourge have some rule to ignore move and shoot with heavy weapons....

So as an educated guess, wracks are looking mighty impressive, still need to see the actual slate of course.

However, liquifiers appear to be s4 again (thank god) and set at -2 ap. Haemonculus tools also appear to be poisoned 2+

If wracks are still armed with Haemi tools and are in fact 3 attacks, and if a liquifier has that profile then honestly they will be better then the other two troop options at either of their roles IMHO lol.

Remember, everything advances and charges turn 2 forward and liquifiers are assault weapons that now have a 12" range.

Doubt it, I bet they have "wrack tools" and are still poison 4+

the_scotsman wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Scourge look fine everyone. Stand down.

Do you have a scourge sheet? I havent got that one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im rrally curious about many of the non- character units tbh

You are right, sorry I'm making a leap. I've just seen the points, but I guess it would always be laid down that way even if they were all 0/1 options.
Stand back up again.

the_scotsman wrote:
Doubt it, I bet they have "wrack tools" and are still poison 4+

I agree thats a likely possibility, but even then they seem like they are going to have the potential to be very strong. Liquifier spam might see a return.

+1 Round for Power from Pain for all Black Heart kabal units.
In a real space raid detachment all Mercs also count as being on an extra round for power from pain.
+1 LD for all Black Heart units.
One rerroll to hit per unit with this obssession.


The relic is basically a Litenaunt aura for your Archon that works for Mercs in a real space raid detachment.

Tyel wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Scourge look fine everyone. Stand down.

Do you have a scourge sheet? I havent got that one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im rrally curious about many of the non- character units tbh

You are right, sorry I'm making a leap. I've just seen the points, but I guess it would always be laid down that way even if they were all 0/1 options.
Stand back up again.

Tease

I'd love to see the weapons page.

Also, I cannot believe the Cronos is still such a worthless piece of garbage. It's absurd that they thought +1 attack would fix it.

I hope against all reason that hellions saw a much better improvement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:

Spoiler:

+1 Round for Power from Pain for all Black Heart kabal units.
In a real space raid detachment all Mercs also count as being on an extra round for power from pain.
+1 LD for all Black Heart units.
One rerroll to hit per unit with this obssession.

It was looking really bad until that final reroll lol.

That makes them very consistent with blasters/dark lances

Edit: Deleted. Red Corsair beat me to it.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I'd love to see the weapons page.

Also, I cannot believe the Cronos is still such a worthless piece of garbage. It's absurd that they thought +1 attack would fix it.

I hope against all reason that hellions saw a much better improvement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:

Spoiler:

+1 Round for Power from Pain for all Black Heart kabal units.
In a real space raid detachment all Mercs also count as being on an extra round for power from pain.
+1 LD for all Black Heart units.
One rerroll to hit per unit with this obssession.

It was looking really bad until that final reroll lol.

That makes them very consistent with blasters/dark lances

how is that bad, you can count the round +2 with black heart and realmspace, this means by turn 2 all your army has 5++ inv
and at turn 2 incubi will make an absolute massacre

Hmm, not TOO bad for Black Heart but obviously they're less appealing with the nerf to Vect. If Flayed Skull stays the same I'm still gonna give that the best subfaction again.

Talos melee breakdown:

2 cleavers: 2.66 unsabed wounds vs vehicles, 3.32 GEQ, 1.77 dead MEQ.

Gauntlet: 5.2 wounds vs vehicles, 2.75 GEQ (assuming 1 cleaver), 1.73 MEQ or TEQ

Flail: 3.68 GEQ

Cleaver+injector: 1.84 MEQ

Basixally flail makes GEQ go up and MEQ/Vehicles go down, injector makes MEQ go up and Vehicles down, Gauntlet makes vehicles go way up and MEQ almost equal with 3 damage attacks instead of 2, but does cost 5pts.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Hmm, not TOO bad for Black Heart but obviously they're less appealing with the nerf to Vect. If Flayed Skull stays the same I'm still gonna give that the best subfaction again.

Don't forget Poison Tongue....looked pretty tasty thus far

At only 5 points why not take it over Injector then?

@ InVerno

Because most of the army is already going to have a 5++ (possibly better) in the early rounds anyway since we already know night shields are the same. I don't really give a crap about advancing and charging kabal so it wasn't looking like it could hold a candle next to the poisoned tongue trait we already saw.

However that reroll saved it for my money at least.

 Red Corsair wrote:
@ InVerno

Because most of the army is already going to have a 5++ (possibly better) in the early rounds anyway since we already know night shields are the same. I don't really give a crap about advancing and charging kabal so it wasn't looking like it could hold a candle next to the poisoned tongue trait we already saw.

However that reroll saved it for my money at least.

Fair points

Still, i'll absoulute try a heavy melee list with incubi and wytches and see how that turn 2 charge will perform

Also, as i understand, lelith can consolidate 6" even out of combat?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
At only 5 points why not take it over Injector then?

It does drop your geq output but, yeah, gauntlet has teeth. You can actually go for gauntlet+injector or gauntlet+liquifiers for a pricy talos thats good at everything.

The injector does eat an attack so injector+gauntlet is kinda a wash except vs 1w opponents where swapping a D3 attack for D3 mws is quite good

This is not mine but here we go:



H.B.M.C you can rest at ease.

 Galas wrote:
This is not mine but here we go:

Spoiler:

H.B.M.C you can rest at ease.

Wow those weapons are scary,

5 deep striking splinter cannons can ruin any SM day

Heavy heat lances are still better on the move than blasters vs vehicles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heat lances are bettrr vs meq than new SCs LUL. SCs are trash unless poison does something weird.

Shame Haywire isn't written up like poison.
Haywire weapon [4+] p. XX would save so much copy pasta.

Imagine if both were USRs in the main rulebook!

Oh damn - that heat lance! Min 3 damage and 18" range. Still a poor mans multi melta but probably a lot cheaper.

DE haywire is ap -3...odd but welcome buff.

What the heck is blade artist?

the_scotsman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
At only 5 points why not take it over Injector then?

It does drop your geq output but, yeah, gauntlet has teeth. You can actually go for gauntlet+injector or gauntlet+liquifiers for a pricy talos thats good at everything.

The injector does eat an attack so injector+gauntlet is kinda a wash except vs 1w opponents where swapping a D3 attack for D3 mws is quite good

The liquifiers are a big deal, not sure you want a unit of three all armed with them but as they are MC's they can shoot in combat. Taking at least one loaded out that way covers any GEQ problems you might have.

Haywire blasters also just became D3 damage base as well, might be a sign of what will change for Harlequins whenever they get updated. That's a pretty big change since before that, Harlies basically had almost no multi-wound damage ranged weapons besides fusion pistols that they would take.

Heat lances and Haywire changing to heavy really makes things a debate.

Considering you can field HL and HB on reavers and or talos I am going to go out on a limb and say the dark lance is their best option, points depending of course since those other units don't suffer the penalty to moving and shooting and are more durable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If anyone finds the Hellions, I'd be grateful! I am hoping they are actually a threat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The more sheets are leaked the more units are in fact getting their own built in invulnerable saves, or have the existing ones carrying over. This definitely does make the turn 1 PfP inured to suffering a downgrade overall.

I realise its good to join the imperial overlords - but to avoid being hypocritical, I'm going to jump in and say 100 points for 4 18" S8 AP-4 D6+2 damage shots feels slightly crazy.

I guess they'll be kept slightly in check a bit by the Heavy rule - but still, 14" fly move. Going to be able to hide and blast most things.

It's incredibly dumb to see almost all weapon choices for Scourge are now Heavy with no way to counter it, at least Shredders are good.

Im curious about hellions and the core rule page for sure. What Insensible and Blade Artists is for example

 Imateria wrote:
It's incredibly dumb to see almost all weapon choices for Scourge are now Heavy with no way to counter it, at least Shredders are good.

They gained range (which is great), but lost rerolling wounds....