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Beardedragon wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Unless they were a close friend, wanting to play their army before it was finished (and I would still expect at least it to be primed, and it would be a one off) I would refuse games against unpainted armies unless there was an exceptional reason for it not being painted, such as the person playing it could not paint the army for reason of disability.

I have chosen to play and engage in the hobby how it is intended, not the I just want to play competitive and have the latest toys in the meta version of the game. If you turn up to play with an unpainted army, I think it personally says a hell of a lot...

Now, would I be aggrieved about you playing and others accepting, no, but I just personally would choose not to play against you and I wouldn't. I've spoke in other threads about the spectacle of the game being important to me, how the game looks and the battlefield looks, unpainted armies don't fulfil that criteria for me.

That is me, my opinion and I'm sure some would be unhappy with it, but that's okay, I'd honestly prefer not to play a game than play against an unpainted army.

So.. when you just started out this hobby, did you have a fully painted army before you engaged in combat? Did your first 2k point army uphold the full standard of being painted at the time?


Because newer players who just started, will obviously not have a fully painted army in most situations

Yeah, I painted my army before playing. I also built up slowly and didn't play 2000pts straight away. This was in 1997 though, when a 2000pt army could be very small in 2nd edition anyway but still, painted before playing, that was the rules in the GW shop.

I mean, on that note you are making, you just going to let them play with the models on the sprues still? It takes time to build the models, more time to paint them, but if you are going to take the time to build them, I'd prefer if you took the extra time to paint them also.

if they're on sprue, they're not on the table so i dont understand what you mean.

It doesnt take a lot of time to put things together. It takes a lot of time to paint however. If one wants their models to not look like trash, then yea, painting takes a lot of time. I spend a lot of time painting Ghaz and while doing so, i couldnt paint any of my boys.

I paint all my models, because i want them on display as well, but that doesnt mean ive gotten around to paint them all at this point.

Its easy for Space marine players or players who use elite armies to tell others to start painting, when some of us use horde armies, like i do. I started recently, i cant be asked to have it all painted before i can play. Playing is the core aspect of the game, and before i can engage in a proper battle, i would have to wait a very very very long time before i had 2k painted.

This point you have made here is an opinion, not a fact, I think you would find many people state that the building and painting side of the hobby is just as important for them, or even more important than gaming, playing/gaming is your core reason, not everyones, and for me it is equal to the hobby side.

Also, I had a near full infantry tallern desert raiders force and I've had an ork army in the past also so you're preaching to the wrong person about your horde issue here...

And again, just find someone who doesn't mind you playing with unpainted model, I won't play against you, others will though. It's just as valid a reason for you to expect to be able to play with an unfinished army as mine is to expect an opponent to have a finished army.

It's funny to see how you are trying to equate a 10% advantage/disadvantage to gatekeeping when none is interested in that in casual game and in tournament is something that is already there.

You're free to do as you want. However, the hobby and the game include to assemble and paint miniatures. Don't like it? It's a game.

And I will avoid to comment further on the suggestion to broke your enemy models so they are not battle ready. I mean, I can inadvertently invest you with my car on the way to the tournament to score higher: that's not covered by the rule too. ^^

In general, do you play against empty bases "to avoid forcing people to build their own model"?
It's exactly the same reasoning (yeah there is the line of sight s but you can use cardboard cutout: search PaperHammer).
You could also play with Lego, they look great when built properlyand are much more accessible to people with disabilities. Why stopping at painting?

Honestly the idea that asking for paint should be bad is ridiculous, and the ad-hoc donkey caving you're suggesting as a counterclaim is less as abusive than any stretched interpretation that you can find in the rules subforum (because at least you discuss the painting before hand, not during the game)...

A game can't and shouldn't have rules to tell you how to be a human, or a social or reasonable person. It's a prerequisites.
If you haven't those, or your opponent don't, it's not a problem of the game. A game can't solve the problems of the world, or of the people.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Unless they were a close friend, wanting to play their army before it was finished (and I would still expect at least it to be primed, and it would be a one off) I would refuse games against unpainted armies unless there was an exceptional reason for it not being painted, such as the person playing it could not paint the army for reason of disability.

I have chosen to play and engage in the hobby how it is intended, not the I just want to play competitive and have the latest toys in the meta version of the game. If you turn up to play with an unpainted army, I think it personally says a hell of a lot...

Now, would I be aggrieved about you playing and others accepting, no, but I just personally would choose not to play against you and I wouldn't. I've spoke in other threads about the spectacle of the game being important to me, how the game looks and the battlefield looks, unpainted armies don't fulfil that criteria for me.

That is me, my opinion and I'm sure some would be unhappy with it, but that's okay, I'd honestly prefer not to play a game than play against an unpainted army.

So.. when you just started out this hobby, did you have a fully painted army before you engaged in combat? Did your first 2k point army uphold the full standard of being painted at the time?


Because newer players who just started, will obviously not have a fully painted army in most situations

Yeah, I painted my army before playing. I also built up slowly and didn't play 2000pts straight away. This was in 1997 though, when a 2000pt army could be very small in 2nd edition anyway but still, painted before playing, that was the rules in the GW shop.

I mean, on that note you are making, you just going to let them play with the models on the sprues still? It takes time to build the models, more time to paint them, but if you are going to take the time to build them, I'd prefer if you took the extra time to paint them also.

if they're on sprue, they're not on the table so i dont understand what you mean.

It doesnt take a lot of time to put things together. It takes a lot of time to paint however. If one wants their models to not look like trash, then yea, painting takes a lot of time. I spend a lot of time painting Ghaz and while doing so, i couldnt paint any of my boys.

I paint all my models, because i want them on display as well, but that doesnt mean ive gotten around to paint them all at this point.

Its easy for Space marine players or players who use elite armies to tell others to start painting, when some of us use horde armies, like i do. I started recently, i cant be asked to have it all painted before i can play. Playing is the core aspect of the game, and before i can engage in a proper battle, i would have to wait a very very very long time before i had 2k painted.

This point you have made here is an opinion, not a fact, I think you would find many people state that the building and painting side of the hobby is just as important for them, or even more important than gaming, playing/gaming is your core reason, not everyones, and for me it is equal to the hobby side.

Also, I had a near full infantry tallern desert raiders force and I've had an ork army in the past also so you're preaching to the wrong person about your horde issue here...

And again, just find someone who doesn't mind you playing with unpainted model, I won't play against you, others will though. It's just as valid a reason for you to expect to be able to play with an unfinished army as mine is to expect an opponent to have a finished army.

its an opinion? well of course it is. EVERYTHING we say in this thread is an opinion, so is everything you say. Few things stated in this thread are facts but you know what is a fact? that your kind is the minority where i play because ive never met anyone before in real life, with an opinion like yours.

So it doesnt really bother me. I only ever meet people who are down to earth and wants to have a great match.

I have zero idea why you are getting upset. Also, the way you stated that point you made was in a manner that was factual, not an opinion.

Anyway, you crack on with your unpainted models, I'm not stopping you, you would just not be able to play against myself or others with my opinion, and there are others like me, read through the whole thread.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I have zero idea why you are getting upset. Also, the way you stated that point you made was in a manner that was factual, not an opinion.

Anyway, you crack on with your unpainted models, I'm not stopping you, you would just not be able to play against myself or others with my opinion, and there are others like me, read through the whole thread.

upset? why would i be upset. you claim i dont state a fact but opinion, and that is correct. In the same way that you only claim opinions and not facts.

Whos upset here?

also did i say there werent others like you? No. there simply arent others like you in my warhammer ring of players that i play. THAT however, is a fact.

Depends.

Is it someone trying out a new army, and hasn’t had a chance to paint everything, or even settled on what it’ll all be? Reckon we can forgo it.

Campaign game? I’m claiming them.

Tournament game, where that rule is in effect? Yeah, again I’m claiming them.

The only thing really open to debate is what counts as painted. For me? The old Three Colours and Based will do. I feel that’s a fair benchmark which respects the differing levels of skill and available time.

And that’s coming from me, a documented reluctant painter. If I of all people can be bothered, surely anyone can (not allowing for specific disabilities etc)

Beardedragon wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Good for you then kiddo.

see? you're the one being snide with that kiddo stuff.

Few things stated in this thread are facts but you know what is a fact? that your kind is the minority where i play because ive never met anyone before in real life, with an opinion like yours.

And this isn't layered with a thick amount of snide?

Kids in glass houses shouldn't throw stones mate.

Anyway, I'm out, you harp on if you want, I've got better things to do.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Good for you then kiddo.

see? you're the one being snide with that kiddo stuff.

Few things stated in this thread are facts but you know what is a fact? that your kind is the minority where i play because ive never met anyone before in real life, with an opinion like yours.

And this isn't layered with a thick amount of snide?

Kids in glass houses shouldn't throw stones mate.

Anyway, I'm out, you harp on if you want, I've got better things to do.

When you feel the need to blatantly state that my opinion isnt a fact just to shoot me down, then i decided to state an actual fact, so i did. Thats all it is. And like getting the last word in before leaving through the door is just another snide thing to do.

Believe what you want but you started this sir with your facts and opinion bollocks.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Apple fox wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Unless they were a close friend, wanting to play their army before it was finished (and I would still expect at least it to be primed, and it would be a one off) I would refuse games against unpainted armies unless there was an exceptional reason for it not being painted, such as the person playing it could not paint the army for reason of disability.

I have chosen to play and engage in the hobby how it is intended, not the I just want to play competitive and have the latest toys in the meta version of the game. If you turn up to play with an unpainted army, I think it personally says a hell of a lot...

Now, would I be aggrieved about you playing and others accepting, no, but I just personally would choose not to play against you and I wouldn't. I've spoke in other threads about the spectacle of the game being important to me, how the game looks and the battlefield looks, unpainted armies don't fulfil that criteria for me.

That is me, my opinion and I'm sure some would be unhappy with it, but that's okay, I'd honestly prefer not to play a game than play against an unpainted army.

I think this is fair, if players want fully painted then that is great. We have fully painted narrative campaigns, I really enjoy running them for people.

The big issue this rule has is it mostly takes away the discussion, it forces it as a situation when a lot of people’s reason may not be visible.
I have had people question my painting ability as not being able to walk shouldn’t stop me from painting, the thing is I can walk. I use assistance for long periods out for the same reason I cannot paint. Half the days I cannot even hold a miniature when I want one, painting is completely out of the question most days. But I love painting, it’s a importent part of my hobby that this rule effects negatively.
Before this rule, there was painting jokes all the time and people understood and where playful about it, no pressure and only tournaments had rules implemented for it.
After, well it’s been a lot worse. It sells a lot of paint probably so GW won’t care about the community damage it causes unless it causes them to have to deal with it.

The moment a rule in a game causes people to have to bring external disability’s or issues into the game, then it’s a bad rule. It’s the same as not being able to grow a beard in Age of Sigmar, possibly worse as at least we can all roll our eyes at that and call GW a little daft for the joke. But this causes damage in the way that people have taken to the discussion surrounding it.

Not that I'm the best painter in the world by any means, but if there was a person in a situation similar to yours, if you provide the paint, I don't mind doing my bit and painting some up for you. I don't want to limit yourself if you wanted to do all the painting yourself, good for you, but if you want a hand and want to show me your method so it's consistent then fine. It's a hobby, it should be a community and it should be social, help people out if you can.

Again, that's just me, I wouldn't expect everyone to engage in the hobby in the same way.

It’s cool, the issue I see with rules like this, is the mechanism was already there and implemented just fine for those that wanted. It’s fairly tragic that GW couldn’t see this as a issue.
It’s also why I mostly focus on other games, as dealing with 40k players and the game is more effort with the way GW handles it.

I would also say, seperate. When people are selling off army’s, and not painting as not to devalue the selling price. It’s interesting that people don’t see that as a GW problem, if players just expect an army to at any moment be worth abandoning for something else. It’s teaching them to not value painting and the hobby that surrounds it at all.

So it looks like I get to add ANOTHER reason why I'm glad I went back to 3rd Edition...

Honestly it baffles me that we've had 6 pages of another of these threads.
Lockdown madness is pretty real in here, some people need to stop seething at there screens for hours a day and take a step back and look at themselves.

Warhammer/miniature tabletop wargame rpgs whatever is a really broad hobby, and it's perfectly possible that people can enjoy them *as fully as they want*, without engaging in all aspects, and that's totally groovy. Being a dirty mouthbreathing WAAC who uses grey horde FOTM armies is just as legit as having a golden-daemon-teir army of gorgeously painted, heavily converted RT era Eldar - and feth it, if you're having fun? More power to you. *YOU* personally might prefer to play against, and even be one of these guys. You might fall in the middle. I don't give a gak. I have fun doing my hobby my way, and, if you're a cool guy like me, you won't really be bothered by other people having fun their way, too.

But man alive, how socially abnormal do you have to be to finish a, what? hour-and-a-half to 2-hour long game of 40k with someone, for the game to wrap up, and them to be "Oh, hey, do you mind if I take the 10 bonus VP for having a painted army?" Like, grow up? Either say "ah, yeah, fair enough, those are some lovely minis, go on, good game," or "jog on you cheeky sod, I trounced you." and that's kind of it?
If you think it's a bad rule, just ask when you agree to play if it's okay not to use it. If you wanna play only painted armies? Just go and play painted armies. If you think it's a legit rule, and your opponent is cool with it? Great. Fall somewhere in between? It's a fething game of toy soldiers, try talking it out in a way that isn't chimping out on a messageboard with strangers.

SO MANY dudes in this thread are just willfully arguing past each other looking for a reason to be mad, and this fething issue wasn't worth ANOTHER thread, let alone 6 pages. Some people like the rule. Some people choose not to use the rule. Some people need to maybe stop acting like a 14-year-old pissbaby who's just realized that there are people in the world with different opinions and outlooks on things, and adjust to the crushing cognitive dissonance caused by the realization that they aren't the only sentient being in existence.

This rule is a bit bs, I think we all know that. But like, enough people agreed on it in Nottingham that it made it to print.

Beardedragon wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Good for you then kiddo.

see? you're the one being snide with that kiddo stuff.

Few things stated in this thread are facts but you know what is a fact? that your kind is the minority where i play because ive never met anyone before in real life, with an opinion like yours.

And this isn't layered with a thick amount of snide?

Kids in glass houses shouldn't throw stones mate.

Anyway, I'm out, you harp on if you want, I've got better things to do.

When you feel the need to blatantly state that my opinion isnt a fact just to shoot me down, then i decided to state an actual fact, so i did. Thats all it is. And like getting the last word in before leaving through the door is just another snide thing to do.

Believe what you want but you started this sir with your facts and opinion bollocks.

Beardedragon wrote:
Playing is the core aspect of the game

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Good for you then kiddo.

see? you're the one being snide with that kiddo stuff.

Few things stated in this thread are facts but you know what is a fact? that your kind is the minority where i play because ive never met anyone before in real life, with an opinion like yours.

And this isn't layered with a thick amount of snide?

Kids in glass houses shouldn't throw stones mate.

Anyway, I'm out, you harp on if you want, I've got better things to do.

When you feel the need to blatantly state that my opinion isnt a fact just to shoot me down, then i decided to state an actual fact, so i did. Thats all it is. And like getting the last word in before leaving through the door is just another snide thing to do.

Believe what you want but you started this sir with your facts and opinion bollocks.

Beardedragon wrote:
Playing is the core aspect of the game

and that is my opinion.

Yet here you are. you said you left? guess you couldnt stay away.

In which case, I suggest you learn to rephrase your sentences so they don't come across as a statement of fact, but as an opinion in the first place, as that example above is not worded to indicate it is an opinion.

Different people play for different reasons.
GW certainly doesn't consider the rules as the core of the game.
Many players don't either.

So who are any of us to dictate what the core of the game truly is?

This is one of those things that I view as an almost total non-issue.
In a casual game (including casual matched play), who won doesn't make a shred of difference. Is it really an issue if both players leave believing that they've won, because one player counts the 10vp and the other doesn't? Not to me it wouldn't.
In an organised event it would matter, but tournaments have had various rules for encouraging painting for yonks. Many just flat out require painted minis. So this standardises that approach (or is redundant), which is surely a positive for the overall tournament scene.

Beardedragon wrote:
if they're on sprue, they're not on the table so i dont understand what you mean.

It doesnt take a lot of time to put things together. It takes a lot of time to paint however. If one wants their models to not look like trash, then yea, painting takes a lot of time. I spent a lot of time painting Ghaz back in the day and while doing so, i couldnt paint any of my boys. Now im painting a Gargantuan Squiggoth, and i definitly will use it in battle before its finished.

I paint all my models, because i want them on display as well, but that doesnt mean ive gotten around to paint them all at this point.

Its easy for Space marine players or players who use elite armies to tell others to start painting, when some of us use horde armies, like i do. I started recently, i cant be asked to have it all painted before i can play. Playing is the core aspect of the game, and before i can engage in a proper battle, i would have to wait a very very very long time before i had 2k painted.

At this point maybe 60% of my army is painted, however the most important parts i have are painted. Thats what ive gotten around to do, its not because i dont want to paint the rest. But i do have a job, and other hobbies next to warhammer. So i wont treat this hobby like a job and force paint everything in a super fast fashion that will give me stress. Ill paint slowly but steadily, and make my miniatures look amazing.


In the end, ive never met anyone who wouldnt play with an army where some of the models arent painted. Sure a painted army looks better, but ive never met anyone declining. In fact when i started i didnt bring unpainted models, but people told me to just bring them so we could up the number from maybe 750 points to 1000. Everyone was like: hey that trukk and Mega Nobz of yours, just bring them even if they aint painted, it'll be more fun. So i did.

We would never fight, because you wouldnt fight me, but i feel like your type is the minority. At least ive never met anyone that feels the way you do.

100% agree.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
In which case, I suggest you learn to rephrase your sentences so they don't come across as a statement of fact, but as an opinion in the first place, as that example above is not worded to indicate it is an opinion.

Im sorry but what is going on here? You said you left and didnt bother responding once more, and now you're back, responding again? Are you unable to let things go?

What is wrong with you. stand by your word and dont respond if you say you arent going to.

You and i dont agree with one another, so take your own advice and leave it at that.

BTW, mainly due to my non engaging with opponents that don't play with painted models (unless specific circumstances detailed above), no I wouldn't take the 10VP... Why bother really? It's most likely a cheap win, and even worse, if you manage to lose with a 10 VP head start then you just look like an idiot, it's almost a lose lose situation for you to take the 10VP.

I also agree with Mad Doc, I'll take the 3x colours and a painted base as tabletop standard, unless it happens to be a cool mono colour scheme for any reason that works, however I suppose that usually involves shading and highlights anyway so will have the 3x colours technically, if not more.

 posermcbogus wrote:
Honestly it baffles me that we've had 6 pages of another of these threads.
Lockdown madness is pretty real in here, some people need to stop seething at there screens for hours a day and take a step back and look at themselves.

Warhammer/miniature tabletop wargame rpgs whatever is a really broad hobby, and it's perfectly possible that people can enjoy them *as fully as they want*, without engaging in all aspects, and that's totally groovy. Being a dirty mouthbreathing WAAC who uses grey horde FOTM armies is just as legit as having a golden-daemon-teir army of gorgeously painted, heavily converted RT era Eldar - and feth it, if you're having fun? More power to you. *YOU* personally might prefer to play against, and even be one of these guys. You might fall in the middle. I don't give a gak. I have fun doing my hobby my way, and, if you're a cool guy like me, you won't really be bothered by other people having fun their way, too.

But man alive, how socially abnormal do you have to be to finish a, what? hour-and-a-half to 2-hour long game of 40k with someone, for the game to wrap up, and them to be "Oh, hey, do you mind if I take the 10 bonus VP for having a painted army?" Like, grow up? Either say "ah, yeah, fair enough, those are some lovely minis, go on, good game," or "jog on you cheeky sod, I trounced you." and that's kind of it?
If you think it's a bad rule, just ask when you agree to play if it's okay not to use it. If you wanna play only painted armies? Just go and play painted armies. If you think it's a legit rule, and your opponent is cool with it? Great. Fall somewhere in between? It's a fething game of toy soldiers, try talking it out in a way that isn't chimping out on a messageboard with strangers.

SO MANY dudes in this thread are just willfully arguing past each other looking for a reason to be mad, and this fething issue wasn't worth ANOTHER thread, let alone 6 pages. Some people like the rule. Some people choose not to use the rule. Some people need to maybe stop acting like a 14-year-old pissbaby who's just realized that there are people in the world with different opinions and outlooks on things, and adjust to the crushing cognitive dissonance caused by the realization that they aren't the only sentient being in existence.

This rule is a bit bs, I think we all know that. But like, enough people agreed on it in Nottingham that it made it to print.

I don’t like starting games being interrogated over a rule that makes me feel quite bad, it’s a small rule to some but it effects me quite a lot. And here is the thing, before this rule it was never an issue I encounter. People where cool and casual about it, it’s a rule that directly causes confrontation on the issue and offers and excuse to avoid its discussion.

I have been to tournaments as well, I never won painting prizes for my army’s. But I could win at the game itself, an ability to use my mind which is mostly intact.
I also very much enjoy painting and put 100% into every model and want to learn to improve and do win prizes for painting completions. GW should account with there rules the human part of the game when they can. They should by now know the issues.

Wayniac wrote:
I mean it's 100% a garbage rule. But it's a core rule so you need to agree to ignore it or it's in effect. That's really all there is to it. You're free to agree to ignore it In a friendly game because it's stupid, but if you don't clear that with your opponent beforehand they are completely within their rights to claim +10 VP for a fully painted army.

Here is Nottingham's reasoning behind the painting rule. Think like a suit and you might understand the thought process here:

Suit 1: "We need to make more money. Any ideas?"

Suit 2: "Yes, implement a rule which favours painted models."

Suit 1:" Why?"

Suit 2: "Well, these nerds will then buy more paints from us in order to cash in more wins. Some might even try to wield a brush for the first time in their life. Golden times await us, fellow suit!"

Suit 1: "True. Oh my gawd how I despise our customers!"

Suit 2: "Me too."

If I'm not mistaken, I never said anything about interrogations, friend. I'm not a cop, not gonna tell you what to do.

Apple fox wrote:

 posermcbogus wrote:
Honestly it baffles me that we've had 6 pages of another of these threads.
Lockdown madness is pretty real in here, some people need to stop seething at there screens for hours a day and take a step back and look at themselves.

Warhammer/miniature tabletop wargame rpgs whatever is a really broad hobby, and it's perfectly possible that people can enjoy them *as fully as they want*, without engaging in all aspects, and that's totally groovy. Being a dirty mouthbreathing WAAC who uses grey horde FOTM armies is just as legit as having a golden-daemon-teir army of gorgeously painted, heavily converted RT era Eldar - and feth it, if you're having fun? More power to you. *YOU* personally might prefer to play against, and even be one of these guys. You might fall in the middle. I don't give a gak. I have fun doing my hobby my way, and, if you're a cool guy like me, you won't really be bothered by other people having fun their way, too.

But man alive, how socially abnormal do you have to be to finish a, what? hour-and-a-half to 2-hour long game of 40k with someone, for the game to wrap up, and them to be "Oh, hey, do you mind if I take the 10 bonus VP for having a painted army?" Like, grow up? Either say "ah, yeah, fair enough, those are some lovely minis, go on, good game," or "jog on you cheeky sod, I trounced you." and that's kind of it?
If you think it's a bad rule, just ask when you agree to play if it's okay not to use it. If you wanna play only painted armies? Just go and play painted armies. If you think it's a legit rule, and your opponent is cool with it? Great. Fall somewhere in between? It's a fething game of toy soldiers, try talking it out in a way that isn't chimping out on a messageboard with strangers.

SO MANY dudes in this thread are just willfully arguing past each other looking for a reason to be mad, and this fething issue wasn't worth ANOTHER thread, let alone 6 pages. Some people like the rule. Some people choose not to use the rule. Some people need to maybe stop acting like a 14-year-old pissbaby who's just realized that there are people in the world with different opinions and outlooks on things, and adjust to the crushing cognitive dissonance caused by the realization that they aren't the only sentient being in existence.

This rule is a bit bs, I think we all know that. But like, enough people agreed on it in Nottingham that it made it to print.

I don’t like starting games being interrogated over a rule that makes me feel quite bad, it’s a small rule to some but it effects me quite a lot. And here is the thing, before this rule it was never an issue I encounter. People where cool and casual about it, it’s a rule that directly causes confrontation on the issue and offers and excuse to avoid its discussion.

I have been to tournaments as well, I never won painting prizes for my army’s. But I could win at the game itself, an ability to use my mind which is mostly intact.
I also very much enjoy painting and put 100% into every model and want to learn to improve and do win prizes for painting completions. GW should account with there rules the human part of the game when they can. They should by now know the issues.

I agree wholeheartedly with you.

I too put everything i have in to my models, i dont settle with painting my minis fast just because. The fact its now a rule, the whole painted thing, takes away the discussion. Or rather should i say, one can still have a discussion, but your opponent can now also legally claim an easier victory, by essentially VETO'ing your proposal of not using the rule. Because there IS a rule now.

Nothing has changed for me from 8th where i started to now in 9th in terms of how i go about painting my miniatures. I paint as much and as well as i did in 8th where there werent any rules, as i do now where there is. I havent met people who wanted to claim the points, not even once, so at least in my general area of the people ive met and played with, people are understanding.

I would never ruin my miniatures by speed painting them just because the rules state i need to have a fully painted army.

Wouldn't be the first time people thought that of customers. People here would often like to run a public office of some sort, but never have people come with any problems or things to do. In fact even in stores, you visit daily, you are treated as if you were botheringthe ladies working there, by trying to buy stuff. Can easily imagine that.

 posermcbogus wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, I never said anything about interrogations, friend. I'm not a cop, not gonna tell you what to do.

I am using interrogation as a phrase to describe how people have wanted justification for the removal of the rule and it’s effect on the game. It’s not just a easy thing for some people, and sometimes it’s a entire conversation about issues I need to go though.

Lots of miss clicks lol

Apple fox wrote:

 posermcbogus wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, I never said anything about interrogations, friend. I'm not a cop, not gonna tell you what to do.

I am using interrogation as a phrase to describe how people haven’t wanted justification for the removal of the rule and it’s effect on the game. It’s not just a easy thing for some people, and sometimes it’s a entire conversation about issues I need to go though.

I think the rule is bs and I said as much. Stop trying to misconstrue what I was saying to start an argument, I'd honestly rather see this thread locked. We had this discussion when 9th dropped and it was just as bad as this one.

 posermcbogus wrote:
"He wants his 10 points."

Non-wargaming image removed

Which one of you cowards reported my Giga-chad?

I wanna see this giga chad!

He was an excellent Giga-chad, but he got sent to internet bad-boy hell for being too funny and not a skaven or a space marine or a fish elf, unfortunately. I really am the Jaden Smith of this website.

 posermcbogus wrote:

Apple fox wrote:

 posermcbogus wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, I never said anything about interrogations, friend. I'm not a cop, not gonna tell you what to do.

I am using interrogation as a phrase to describe how people haven’t wanted justification for the removal of the rule and it’s effect on the game. It’s not just a easy thing for some people, and sometimes it’s a entire conversation about issues I need to go though.

I think the rule is bs and I said as much. Stop trying to misconstrue what I was saying to start an argument, I'd honestly rather see this thread locked. We had this discussion when 9th dropped and it was just as bad as this one.

I should say it’s a response directly to your 3rd paragraph, I don’t really want an argument. I am discussing it since it effects me, but it’s also quite dismissive to handwave it away. It’s a issue then and it’s still a issue. GW does have the power to change it if they want to, and i will continue to discuss it and if mods feel I step out of line I will try and step back when informed.

It’s also entirely possible language differences and use cause misunderstanding for the post itself, mistakes do happen as well and sorry for that.

"Playing is the core aspect of the game" isn't an opinion actually, is the only part of the hobby that is shared with another player. Other activities like reading/inventing the lore or painting have nothing to do with the game itself.

The game is not gonna be different if a model is painted or not, the only thing that matters is assembling the models, and they don't even need to be 100% complete.

 Blackie wrote:
"Playing is the core aspect of the game" isn't an opinion actually, is the only part of the hobby that is shared with another player. Other activities like reading/inventing the lore or painting have nothing to do with the game itself.

The game is not gonna be different if a model is painted or not, the only thing that matters is assembling the models, and they don't even need to be 100% complete.

In that you've made the implicit assumption that "the hobby" and "the game" are one and the same.
TBH, I agree with you. When I'm playing a game it makes no difference to me if we're playing with card chits or painted models (the theatre of my kind is very good). But I don't think the tabletop game is completely separate from building and painting the miniatures, especially amongst the community.