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Yeah, the Artel stuff is solid.

If GW doesn't give me grotesques with the DE, I'm going to get a box of the Artel ones.

https://artelw.com/Flesh-Golems-of-Voidborn-Ancients-p238880601

 Kanluwen wrote:
Right now, the only new Drukhari model we definitively know about is Lelith Hesperax in the Pain & Piety box coming out.

With Eldar? Nobody really knows WTF is going on behind closed doors.

I strongly think Exodites in the vein of some aos crap. Seriously. Jes Goodwin always wanted more of them, feral elves on dragons incoming. Probably already sculpted. Easy to justify in the fluff, lets them do something new, and loads of the big centrepiece overdesigned kits that they love these days. Realistically other than redoing aspect warriors and the phoenix lords (which I really doubt they'll do, just too big a project for likely average to poor sales as with most redos, and they probably can't get away with the primaris nonsense again).

No new craftworld eldar models at all, artel w and ghost minis making better versions of the aspect warriors likely sealed their fate I suspect. The phoenix rising box sold very poorly (because it was a terrible box set), and given that the studio has been directed by the sales guys for years now (and is really just a marketing department for a toy company rather than an actual art studio like the old days), craftworld eldar are likely finished imo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PenitentJake wrote:
Yeah, the Artel stuff is solid.

If GW doesn't give me grotesques with the DE, I'm going to get a box of the Artel ones.

https://artelw.com/Flesh-Golems-of-Voidborn-Ancients-p238880601

Their version of Fuegan is amazing:

https://artelw.com/Flaming-Drake-Prime-p144581582

The scorpions and warp spiders are great too, really dynamic and very detailed, but they're a little beefy for Eldar. The Archon kit with the slaves is pretty awesome too.

I very much doubt we'll see Exodites as anything barring a unit.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Ehhh...hacking programs and some of the actions in Infinity are really no different to stratagems.

Warcaster is much better than Infinity to be honest.

I think what's wrong with Stratagems, from which perspective, and what system solves what about them is its own thread; In the interest of staying one level removed from on-topic in "Alternatives to GW/40K," though, I'll admit to not being familiar with Warcaster. What would you say is/are the best thing or things about it?

 Kanluwen wrote:
I very much doubt we'll see Exodites as anything barring a unit.

Feral space elves on dragons/dinosaurs, bookmark it.

Saw an interview somewhere a while back where Jes Goodwin teases them tongue and cheek, but also as it turns out perfectly described the new Jain Zar model and Banshees years in advance. It makes sense, what else can they do with Eldar? They've ditched Corsairs, they've ditched Ynnari it seems, Exodites fit the bill perfectly for the current style.

Would you have ever have thought they'd take high elves (one of their oldest, most popular, and consistently best selling armies ever), and turn them into that far eastern mythology (as interpreted by video games) inspired rubbish with added cows? Eldar to Exodites is a far smaller step frankly.

Yeah, "Elves on Dinosaurs" does frankly sound like just the sort of thing they love these days. They love those big, expensive kits that break every time you actually try to play with them.

Yeah, an exodite unit as Ynarri is something I've long advocated for; my dream is that they make a Ynarri army by releasing a handful of Reborn Corsair units and a handful of Reborn Exodite units. Then White Dwarf can write mini-dexes for stand-alone Corsairs and Exodites using the existing Ynarri models.

And while I do absolutely LOVE all of Artel's stuff, make no mistake about it, if GW drops a Be'lakor/ LOW sized Avatar and a box for every Aspect, and drops Vect, Grotesques, Trueborn and Bloodbrides to round out the release, all in delicious plastic in the summer of 22 or 23... Quite frankly, I'll forget all about Mr Artel and his breath-takingly beautiful resin, and so will everyone else.

I will already have Artel's Grotesques and possibly his Archon by then, but that won't stop me from buying the GW versions when we get them.

Ielthan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I very much doubt we'll see Exodites as anything barring a unit.

Feral space elves on dragons/dinosaurs, bookmark it.

Saw an interview somewhere a while back where Jes Goodwin teases them tongue and cheek, but also as it turns out perfectly described the new Jain Zar model and Banshees years in advance.

Let's be real here. Jain Zar and Banshees have an established aesthetic and look. Goodwin's been teasing Exodites for years, and always does whenever he gets the chance. Because they're a pet project for him.

It makes sense, what else can they do with Eldar? They've ditched Corsairs, they've ditched Ynnari it seems, Exodites fit the bill perfectly for the current style.

Corsairs were always going to get ditched, thanks to them being Forge World upgrade kits.

We've seen nothing to indicate Ynnari being ditched either.

Would you have ever have thought they'd take high elves (one of their oldest, most popular, and consistently best selling armies ever), and turn them into that far eastern mythology (as interpreted by video games) inspired rubbish with added cows? Eldar to Exodites is a far smaller step frankly.

"Far eastern mythology(as interpreted by video games)" is a bit...oversimplified if anything. Unless you've got specific games in mind that is. It's not a genre I've gone into heavily but never have I really been exposed to the genius loci from that genre. It was more of a Romanic thing but I guess it's also Shinto in the form of Kami?

And frankly yeah. I'm not shocked nor upset by it. If you'd actually read Elf lore over the years, there's a lot of things that kinda point towards the direction they've taken it. Wood Elves, for example, believed that Athel Loren had a 'Weave' that connected every living creature within it to the forest. The forest of Athel Loren was even ruled by a "Council of Beasts" that predated the existence of Chaos. They were spiritforms that took shapes to interact only with Orion and Ariel.
High Elves and their Waystones were a method that the High Elves used to purify the 'spirits' of lands tainted by the touch of Chaos or Death magic. They were also a way for High Elf souls to be protected from the predations of Slaanesh.

The Lumineth have one subfaction within their ranks in the form of the Aelementari Temples which devote themselves to helping "restore the natural balance" of the Mortal Realms. To do so they devote themselves to an element, a shrine, and a specific locality. They devote themselves to a wind upon the plain and a spirit that might have 'spoken' to them there, a mountain peak, a river, or most rarely the rays of light from Hysh itself shining upon them. There's another subfaction called the "Vanari" which is their standing military, and another called the "Scinari" who are the wizards or dedicated magic users.

By the by?
It's not a "cow". The constructs known as the Spirits of the Mountain(hand-crafted by the temples of each mountain, using items from the mountain) are mimicking the look of the "Ymetrican Longhorn"...which is a kind of buffalo, per Phil Kelly--the guy who literally wrote the book on the lore.


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 CEO Kasen wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Ehhh...hacking programs and some of the actions in Infinity are really no different to stratagems.

Warcaster is much better than Infinity to be honest.

I think what's wrong with Stratagems, from which perspective, and what system solves what about them is its own thread; In the interest of staying one level removed from on-topic in "Alternatives to GW/40K," though, I'll admit to not being familiar with Warcaster. What would you say is/are the best thing or things about it?

For one thing, there's no clear "standout" factions. As much as people loooooooove to talk balance for Infinity...they're blowing smoke. It's just as unbalanced when it comes to gameplay, releases, etc. Just for whatever reason it's glossed over all the time.

Warcaster does a fantastic job with making a small-scale game that's intended to have a kind of "skirmish-y feel" feel meaningful. You can utilize the Warp Gates as a way to bring reinforcements back to the game, but there's also an element of making sure that you can actually keep your gates up and ready if you want to do that.

Check out the rules sometime. Highly suggest.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Ielthan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I very much doubt we'll see Exodites as anything barring a unit.

Feral space elves on dragons/dinosaurs, bookmark it.

Saw an interview somewhere a while back where Jes Goodwin teases them tongue and cheek, but also as it turns out perfectly described the new Jain Zar model and Banshees years in advance.

Let's be real here. Jain Zar and Banshees have an established aesthetic and look. Goodwin's been teasing Exodites for years, and always does whenever he gets the chance. Because they're a pet project for him.

It makes sense, what else can they do with Eldar? They've ditched Corsairs, they've ditched Ynnari it seems, Exodites fit the bill perfectly for the current style.

Corsairs were always going to get ditched, thanks to them being Forge World upgrade kits.

We've seen nothing to indicate Ynnari being ditched either.

Would you have ever have thought they'd take high elves (one of their oldest, most popular, and consistently best selling armies ever), and turn them into that far eastern mythology (as interpreted by video games) inspired rubbish with added cows? Eldar to Exodites is a far smaller step frankly.

"Far eastern mythology(as interpreted by video games)" is a bit...oversimplified if anything. Unless you've got specific games in mind that is. It's not a genre I've gone into heavily but never have I really been exposed to the genius loci from that genre. It was more of a Romanic thing but I guess it's also Shinto in the form of Kami?

And frankly yeah. I'm not shocked nor upset by it. If you'd actually read Elf lore over the years, there's a lot of things that kinda point towards the direction they've taken it. Wood Elves, for example, believed that Athel Loren had a 'Weave' that connected every living creature within it to the forest. The forest of Athel Loren was even ruled by a "Council of Beasts" that predated the existence of Chaos. They were spiritforms that took shapes to interact only with Orion and Ariel.
High Elves and their Waystones were a method that the High Elves used to purify the 'spirits' of lands tainted by the touch of Chaos or Death magic. They were also a way for High Elf souls to be protected from the predations of Slaanesh.

The Lumineth have one subfaction within their ranks in the form of the Aelementari Temples which devote themselves to helping "restore the natural balance" of the Mortal Realms. To do so they devote themselves to an element, a shrine, and a specific locality. They devote themselves to a wind upon the plain and a spirit that might have 'spoken' to them there, a mountain peak, a river, or most rarely the rays of light from Hysh itself shining upon them. There's another subfaction called the "Vanari" which is their standing military, and another called the "Scinari" who are the wizards or dedicated magic users.

By the by?
It's not a "cow". The constructs known as the Spirits of the Mountain(hand-crafted by the temples of each mountain, using items from the mountain) are mimicking the look of the "Ymetrican Longhorn"...which is a kind of buffalo, per Phil Kelly--the guy who literally wrote the book on the lore.

Well we'll wait and see what happens, but I'm pretty sure we're gonna see exodites, purely from a business sense, and with the current direction they're taking, redoing craftworld eldar doesn't really fit.

Lol with over 600 metal high elves collected over 27 years (literally every single sculpt 4th edition onwards including a few unreleased things) you better believe I've read the lore. The whole thing about waystones basically being the same as the 40k Eldar ones, that was a later addition sort of 8th edition onwards, it wasn't a thing before then, they were just about absorbing the excess magic. Back in the day the high elf forum even tried writing rules for waystones as a new unit that gave defensive magic abilities. Please don't patronise me about high elf lore, you'll just look a fool.

Similarly the weave and the world roots of wood elves etc were all later additions, it was this whole basic problem with wood elves that geographically there was no reason for them to fight most armies, and then pre 8th ed, and especially pre 6th ed their lore was way too close to Tolkien/Pan. 8th ed really dropped the ball with wood elves, it wasn't a good change of direction from the 6th ed book at all. Not sure about the council of beasts thing, I don't remember that but it's been years since I've read their fluff.

In terms of the lumineth I haven't really read the lore, because I gave up on aos lore a while back, every bit of I tried to read just seemed godawful, and they don't interest me as an army because as I said the aesthetics (the primary point of design, the lore all comes after in their process), is based on a far eastern aesthetic that really has nothing to do with high elves. Yes the Kami model is a real giveaway, even the clothing is very much an historical Asian aesthetic (missus is from that part of the world, confirms), with some Greek hoplite mish mashed in. The High Elf aesthetic was really based on the Normans (hence Dwarfs were based on Saxons), as at the time the studio were all history buffs, every army pretty much followed an historical aesthetic, that was really the whole idea with WFB tbh (Knights vs a Giant was always the classic example Nigel Stillman would give). Pretty much all of the guys from back then now work in historical wargaming, that was always their real passion, it's what made the fluff so immersive and loved, your imagination could really fill in the gaps, you could understand it without having to be told every detail, you could build your own stories around it because you could understand it easily as it was culturally relatable. Think of it this way, when you see a High Elf riding a dragon, you get it immediately, no one asks why he's on a dragon, but when you see the cow/whatever statue thing with the awful proportions, it's going to require what sounds like a pretty long explanation as to why that thing exists. Can you see the difference? In design and writing that matters, no one wants to hear/read a ton of exposition, show, don't tell. AoS is bloody terrible at this.

The High Elf lore was a mix of tolkien and an epic succession struggle, it was just a damn good story tbh. Ulthuan obviously had some Atlantis in there for good measure too. Phil Kelly did not have authorship of any of the High Elf army books, he didn't even work there when the High Elf lore was originally written (it didn't fundamentally change from 4th ed to 8th ed until the end times, apart from a little stuff with Eltharion in 6th edition) so frankly I don't really care what his thoughts on the High Elf lore were, he's merely standing on the shoulders of giants.

Dude I have to tell you, when you try to justify the aos fluff writing....I'm pretty sure it sounds a lot better in your head, but when you read that back.....it just sounds terrible.

Funny how the things you like are super cool but something you dislike "sounds terrible". When you cannot even be bothered to read the lore or sit down and listen to the original bits introducing the lore? That's what makes you "look like a fool". Constantly parroting garbage about "cowelves", that's what makes you "look like a fool".

Enjoy ignore.

If I was a GW exec, and if I saw other companies trying to screw me with alt miniatures, well I would also leave the units being "copied" with gak rules. This way customers would not be too tempted to buy them.

For all GW's faults, it is their game, it is not Artels' game or any other company's game. They are a business, not a charity/government scheme supporting other businesses. Why don't people understand that ? Artel has perhaps dug the grave for the Druk and CW models they targeted for piracy. If I was GW, with the upcoming druk release, I would overcost grotesques if I didn't plan a redo of the resin kit, just to spite them.

Piracy is a problem for a company, no one should think it is not ("oooh but GW is such a big company the bastards !").

lol AoS




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 addnid wrote:
If I was a GW exec, and if I saw other companies trying to screw me with alt miniatures, well I would also leave the units being "copied" with gak rules. This way customers would not be too tempted to buy them.

For all GW's faults, it is their game, it is not Artels' game or any other company's game. They are a business, not a charity/government scheme supporting other businesses. Why don't people understand that ? Artel has perhaps dug the grave for the Druk and CW models they targeted for piracy. If I was GW, with the upcoming druk release, I would overcost grotesques if I didn't plan a redo of the resin kit, just to spite them.

Eventhough I do not really like most of Artel's "not eldars" models, it's what happens when there is a demand and you don't fill it : someone else does. They can only blame themselves when they prefer reinventing something that is already selling (yes, SMs) instead of modernising something that "everyone" is waiting for (and people want these that badly that they are ready to pay close to GW's prices for "not aspect warriors"). And most aspect warriors had "gak" rules for most of their life anyway.

 addnid wrote:
If I was a GW exec, and if I saw other companies trying to screw me with alt miniatures, well I would also leave the units being "copied" with gak rules. This way customers would not be too tempted to buy them.

For all GW's faults, it is their game, it is not Artels' game or any other company's game. They are a business, not a charity/government scheme supporting other businesses. Why don't people understand that ? Artel has perhaps dug the grave for the Druk and CW models they targeted for piracy. If I was GW, with the upcoming druk release, I would overcost grotesques if I didn't plan a redo of the resin kit, just to spite them.

Piracy is a problem for a company, no one should think it is not ("oooh but GW is such a big company the bastards !").

I'm sorry, but GW does not have a monopoly on the idea of "space armored warrior with a spider theme and a big gun". GW made the design for Warp Spiders...when, 1990? 31 years ago.

If making a replacement product out of a superior material using superior design techniques with a vastly more intricate design completely sculpted from scratch 31 years later is "Piracy" then whoever owns Castle Wolfenstein has a lot of lawsuits to throw around at every other video game developer who's made a first person shooter video game, ever.

either keep your design up to date once in 3 decades or someone is going to build a better mousetrap. That's just fething capitalism, baby, if the guy that founded Mcdonalds kept everything about their restaurants exactly the same as it was when they first came up with the idea and someone created the current modern iteration of Wendy's then that first guy deserves to get driven out of business.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Funny how the things you like are super cool but something you dislike "sounds terrible". When you cannot even be bothered to read the lore or sit down and listen to the original bits introducing the lore? That's what makes you "look like a fool". Constantly parroting garbage about "cowelves", that's what makes you "look like a fool".

Enjoy ignore.

Lol I literally explain my thinking exactly. You can't even be bothered to counter it or more likely simply can't refute it. You're clearly not someone worth listening to, and yes, you do look like a fool, and judging from your total inability to differentiate between good and bad writing, you probably are a fool. Ignored.


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dhallnet wrote:
lol AoS

Ikr.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

 addnid wrote:
If I was a GW exec, and if I saw other companies trying to screw me with alt miniatures, well I would also leave the units being "copied" with gak rules. This way customers would not be too tempted to buy them.

For all GW's faults, it is their game, it is not Artels' game or any other company's game. They are a business, not a charity/government scheme supporting other businesses. Why don't people understand that ? Artel has perhaps dug the grave for the Druk and CW models they targeted for piracy. If I was GW, with the upcoming druk release, I would overcost grotesques if I didn't plan a redo of the resin kit, just to spite them.

Piracy is a problem for a company, no one should think it is not ("oooh but GW is such a big company the bastards !").

I'm sorry, but GW does not have a monopoly on the idea of "space armored warrior with a spider theme and a big gun". GW made the design for Warp Spiders...when, 1990? 31 years ago.

If making a replacement product out of a superior material using superior design techniques with a vastly more intricate design completely sculpted from scratch 31 years later is "Piracy" then whoever owns Castle Wolfenstein has a lot of lawsuits to throw around at every other video game developer who's made a first person shooter video game, ever.

either keep your design up to date once in 3 decades or someone is going to build a better mousetrap. That's just fething capitalism, baby, if the guy that founded Mcdonalds kept everything about their restaurants exactly the same as it was when they first came up with the idea and someone created the current modern iteration of Wendy's then that first guy deserves to get driven out of business.

If you're wrong GW owe Tom Meier a lotttttttttt of god damn money

For every customer GW loses they gain three more. Or at least that is how it seems. By not updating some of the most broken factions first (thousand sons) and the flood of marines, GW speaks its intent. My money doesnt matter because they will get more from marine fan #56778.

Eventually there will be no NPCs left for marines to beat up on. Rant off.

It's not a "cow". The constructs known as the Spirits of the Mountain(hand-crafted by the temples of each mountain, using items from the mountain) are mimicking the look of the "Ymetrican Longhorn"...which is a kind of buffalo, per Phil Kelly--the guy who literally wrote the book on the lore.

It's like a cow, but awesomer.

It is battle cattle.

Ielthan wrote:
...

Great summary that sheds some light on why AoS is so unrelatable to many. Much appreciated.

 BertBert wrote:

Ielthan wrote:
...

Great summary that sheds some light on why AoS is so unrelatable to many. Much appreciated.

I dunno, maybe it's just massive fatigue from dealing with numerous "lore based' settings but, honestly, I'm happier with AOS as a setting than I am with 40k at this point. It's just so refreshing to be allowed to do "my dudes" and define for myself what my dudes are like and do, as opposed to 40k's increasingly nailed-down and corporatized lore.

It's "unrelatable to many" because in this day and age, people keep relying on garbage like Reddit or "lorehammer" videos.

FFS, in the initial preview video that had the Alarith? They did an in-depth lore bit, which even talked about the "Ymetrican Longhorn Buffalo" being the inspiration for the construct bodies. Yet people kept parroting the garbage spewed by neckbeards who just wanna hate on everything that isn't their precious Old World.

the_scotsman wrote:

 BertBert wrote:

Ielthan wrote:
...

Great summary that sheds some light on why AoS is so unrelatable to many. Much appreciated.

I dunno, maybe it's just massive fatigue from dealing with numerous "lore based' settings but, honestly, I'm happier with AOS as a setting than I am with 40k at this point. It's just so refreshing to be allowed to do "my dudes" and define for myself what my dudes are like and do, as opposed to 40k's increasingly nailed-down and corporatized lore.

Fair enough, I'm not going to question your personal experience and I won't begrudge you for for it either. On the other hand, we should also acknowledge the other side of that same coin.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's "unrelatable to many" because in this day and age, people keep relying on garbage like Reddit or "lorehammer" videos.

FFS, in the initial preview video that had the Alarith? They did an in-depth lore bit, which even talked about the "Ymetrican Longhorn Buffalo" being the inspiration for the construct bodies. Yet people kept parroting the garbage spewed by neckbeards who just wanna hate on everything that isn't their precious Old World.

No, it's unrelatable to many due to a vastly different design philosophy that simply doesn't click with everyone. Reducing everything to frustrated grogs being contrarians for the sake of it is a gak take that people need to stop resorting to.

Yeah. We've been cool with elves wielding chainsaws and laser guns in our settings for how long? And suddenly a golem isn't acceptably elfy because it has a hammer and cow horns.

Vaul has been a thing with warhammer forever, and he's a smith god and he uses hammers. Devotees to Vaul having hammers is perfectly lore friendly.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It is battle cattle.

There's the problem, this is Warham, not Battlebeef. Dude should have been modelled after elegant elven swine.

When "the other side" does nonsense like saying "you clearly have bad taste" when they have not even bothered to read the lore? When they haven't even bothered to read the free bits that GW has put online?

I ain't acknowledging it.

 Kanluwen wrote:

For one thing, there's no clear "standout" factions. As much as people loooooooove to talk balance for Infinity...they're blowing smoke. It's just as unbalanced when it comes to gameplay, releases, etc. Just for whatever reason it's glossed over all the time.

Huh? What clear "standout faction" is there in infinity? And what metric are you using? Because most factions see some releases every year at least and the delta in winrate in tournaments is a lot smaller than 40k's.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

For one thing, there's no clear "standout" factions. As much as people loooooooove to talk balance for Infinity...they're blowing smoke. It's just as unbalanced when it comes to gameplay, releases, etc. Just for whatever reason it's glossed over all the time.

Huh? What clear "standout faction" is there in infinity? And what metric are you using? Because most factions see some releases every year at least and the delta in winrate in tournaments is a lot smaller than 40k's.

Factions seeing releases is not the same as Sectorials getting releases. When was the last USARF release? Merovingia is only seeing releases now because they jammed stuff into Kosmoyawn.
You can pretend that it's splitting hairs but it's a far, far different set of fish than what goes on with GW. As much as people gripe about Ultramarines, we're not swimming in brand new Ultramarines only characters while nobody else is seeing them.

And quite frankly, yeah. There are "standout factions" in Infinity. Dig around and you'll see that the whole nonsense about "winrate in tournaments" is a bit inflated given that you've got people playing whatever the new hotness is over actually sticking to an army. Part of the whole saltiness over the various campaigns that CB has done that resulted in models going to factions was because players would stack their wins with a power army only to throw the win to their next power army(IE: Bit & KISS going to Combined Army despite the purported winner who picked playing Military Orders to get there).

 Kanluwen wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

For one thing, there's no clear "standout" factions. As much as people loooooooove to talk balance for Infinity...they're blowing smoke. It's just as unbalanced when it comes to gameplay, releases, etc. Just for whatever reason it's glossed over all the time.

Huh? What clear "standout faction" is there in infinity? And what metric are you using? Because most factions see some releases every year at least and the delta in winrate in tournaments is a lot smaller than 40k's.

Factions seeing releases is not the same as Sectorials getting releases. When was the last USARF release? Merovingia is only seeing releases now because they jammed stuff into Kosmoyawn.
You can pretend that it's splitting hairs but it's a far, far different set of fish than what goes on with GW. As much as people gripe about Ultramarines, we're not swimming in brand new Ultramarines only characters while nobody else is seeing them.

And quite frankly, yeah. There are "standout factions" in Infinity. Dig around and you'll see that the whole nonsense about "winrate in tournaments" is a bit inflated given that you've got people playing whatever the new hotness is over actually sticking to an army. Part of the whole saltiness over the various campaigns that CB has done that resulted in models going to factions was because players would stack their wins with a power army only to throw the win to their next power army(IE: Bit & KISS going to Combined Army despite the purported winner who picked playing Military Orders to get there).

Fair enough some sectorials not seeing releases, but theyre still seeing rules updates, unlike 40k's forgotten factions. I can still play Acon with the updated points and rules even if the sectorial is OOP and still feel on an even footing as other N4 armies.

And sure, tournaments winrates dont reflect how balanced a game is for its playerbase (considering most arent tournament players). I just find that infinity has a much solid ruleset and every faction can do good. I'd pick infinity over 40k any day of the week for a competitive wargame experience. 40k is purely for chilling with friends while throwing dice and not caring about the outcome of the game.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

For one thing, there's no clear "standout" factions. As much as people loooooooove to talk balance for Infinity...they're blowing smoke. It's just as unbalanced when it comes to gameplay, releases, etc. Just for whatever reason it's glossed over all the time.

Huh? What clear "standout faction" is there in infinity? And what metric are you using? Because most factions see some releases every year at least and the delta in winrate in tournaments is a lot smaller than 40k's.

According to the polish forums it is nomads, combined army follow by something caller waruna, but I have strong feeling the last thing is a slang term in polish.

 Kanluwen wrote:
When "the other side" does nonsense like saying "you clearly have bad taste" when they have not even bothered to read the lore? When they haven't even bothered to read the free bits that GW has put online?

I ain't acknowledging it.

"It's a battle mountain buffalo, not a battle mountain cow, huge difference, pls read"
OK. It's a difference how ? People don't like the design and it's why they coined it "cow", it's all there is to it and you shouldn't care.
And you guys are arguing opinions, like "I don't like turquoise and I prefer yellow as everyone can easily recognise it" "No you're wrong read chemical composition of turquoise, it's actually emerald ! It's clearly better !"

 VladimirHerzog wrote:


Fair enough some sectorials not seeing releases, but theyre still seeing rules updates, unlike 40k's forgotten factions. I can still play Acon with the updated points and rules even if the sectorial is OOP and still feel on an even footing as other N4 armies.

This part is a bit of an outlier though. Tohaa are still regarded as a garbage faction, as far as I'm aware, even with updated points and rules. Acon's power level scales with the fact that a good chunk of its items also are in Varuna or Military Orders.

And sure, tournaments winrates dont reflect how balanced a game is for its playerbase (considering most arent tournament players). I just find that infinity has a much solid ruleset and every faction can do good. I'd pick infinity over 40k any day of the week for a competitive wargame experience. 40k is purely for chilling with friends while throwing dice and not caring about the outcome of the game.

Your experience is your experience, I guess. Mine is that the "solid ruleset" for Infinity requires you to basically always be online, constantly monitoring for FAQs or weird "rulings" from people that aren't even part of the actual company and extensively devoting time strictly to learning the ins and outs of Infinity. There's a reason people refer to it as a "lifestyle game".