Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines

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**Voss**

Dysartes wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
The topic is - "losing interest thanks to space marines" I'd say - I am losing interest due to lack of updates for anyone. Give me Nids! Give me Astra Militarum! Give me anything but nothing!

You get DE in a fortnight, assuming a normal single week pre-order period - will that shut you up for a bit?

DE are done at this point, and its been clear for a long time now that they aren't getting anything of note. If GW wants excitement, they need to start rolling with what's on the other side of Dark Eldar and this silly war zone supplement. The peak of my interest in them was 3 months ago and we're 8 months into the edition now. There is probably only about 2 years left. GW needs to start getting some enthusiasm rolling.

**Bosskelot**

Marines 2.0 debuted in August of 2019 and didn't get a proper round of nerfs until Feb 2020.

That's hardly 2 months. Especially when they mostly only focused on Iron Hands and not the rest of the problematic stuff in the book.

**VonGerrow**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
Ultramarine blue

Stop spreading blatant misinformation; the sky is obviously Lothern Blue.

**waefre_1**

VonGerrow wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
Ultramarine blue

Stop spreading blatant misinformation; the sky is obviously Lothern Blue.

In the 80s and 90s, it was Enchanted Blue, but in the 00s it switched to Mordian Blue, and now that we have reached the enlightened age of Contrast it's Talassar Blue.

**Insectum7**

waefre_1 wrote:
VonGerrow wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
Ultramarine blue

Stop spreading blatant misinformation; the sky is obviously Lothern Blue.

In the 80s and 90s, it was Enchanted Blue . . .

I still got a bottle of that, along with Lightning Bolt Blue, Nauseating Blue and Regal Blue

**waefre_1**

I still have some of my old hex pots as well, but the only one that's even remotely liquid is Goblin Green (which has been regenerated two or three times now but still smells delicious...)

**drbored**

Voss wrote:
Dysartes wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
The topic is - "losing interest thanks to space marines" I'd say - I am losing interest due to lack of updates for anyone. Give me Nids! Give me Astra Militarum! Give me anything but nothing!

You get DE in a fortnight, assuming a normal single week pre-order period - will that shut you up for a bit?

DE are done at this point, and its been clear for a long time now that they aren't getting anything of note. If GW wants excitement, they need to start rolling with what's on the other side of Dark Eldar and this silly war zone supplement. The peak of my interest in them was 3 months ago and we're 8 months into the edition now. There is probably only about 2 years left. GW needs to start getting some enthusiasm rolling.

Considering the slow-down of releases, I'd actually prefer it if GW extended this edition for another year. I mean, heck, we're nearly a year into this edition and many people haven't even had a chance to play it thanks to the pandemic. Many game stores still don't allow people to play, and even those that do are seeing small or limited turnouts. If GW changes editions again in 2 more years, they'll have a hard time selling it as any sort of improvement to the game because people won't have been able to enjoy it for a 1/3rd of its lifecycle.

Plus, a new edition just means more space marines. Anything we can do to push that further away and update ANYTHING else, like was said above, the better. Tyranids, Eldar, Astra Militarum, Orks... Heck, even though Drukhari are about to get an update, it's likely they'll still need more models converted from finecast to plastic.

On top of that, this warzone campaign is... well, just underwhelming. More books? That we can't use because of the aforementioned pandemic? It's going to be Psychic Awakening/Vigilus all over again, where the campaign book comes out and then a month later an FAQ or codex update invalidates it. We need MODELS, not books. And of those models, anything that's not a space marine, for the love of pete.

**Eldarain**

While true, I don't see them deviating from their 3 year cycles now. It's steady predictable spikes of cash. They pushed 9th out in a very uncertain Covid window.

I expect AoS 3.0 this summer as it is coming up on 3 years since 2.0. if it completely tanks for some reason maybe that might give them some pause for 40k 10th but both elements of that scenario seem incredibly unlikely.

**AngryAngel80**

At this point you could probably just work on armies and wait till 10th edition drops. It was perhaps inevitable for the edition to drop when it did but it equally feels a bit pointless to some given the nature of the world at the moment.

Also makes you wonder, what will 10th be like ? any ideas ? Just a blatant burn and churn with very minor tweaks ? Just curious what people ponder. How much more marine stuff will drop then ? Curious.

**ccs**

AngryAngel80 wrote:

Also makes you wonder, what will 10th be like ? any ideas ? Just a blatant burn and churn with very minor tweaks ? Just curious what people ponder.

Probably.
Depending upon how screwed up the release schedule remains I could see them getting about 1/2 way through (mostly with factions having limited new model releases) & then launching 10th. With 10th having the bulk of armies with larger #s of new/revamped units - though of course SMs would still be one of the two initial forces. Forces that received a codex (other than SM & variants) in 9th would be using their current codex well into 10th.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
How much more marine stuff will drop then ? Curious.

I'd expect Primaris versions of units we've not seen in this codex. Drop pods, assault squads with jet/jump packs, a few more vehicles, a flyer or two. A faction terrain piece. A LoW. Several more Lts.....
For something completely new they could introduce persistent psychic effects similar to AoS Endless spells.

**Dysartes**

Voss wrote:
Dysartes wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
The topic is - "losing interest thanks to space marines" I'd say - I am losing interest due to lack of updates for anyone. Give me Nids! Give me Astra Militarum! Give me anything but nothing!

You get DE in a fortnight, assuming a normal single week pre-order period - will that shut you up for a bit?

DE are done at this point, and its been clear for a long time now that they aren't getting anything of note. If GW wants excitement, they need to start rolling with what's on the other side of Dark Eldar and this silly war zone supplement. The peak of my interest in them was 3 months ago and we're 8 months into the edition now. There is probably only about 2 years left. GW needs to start getting some enthusiasm rolling.

Take it up with Xeno - he said he's losing interest due to a lack of updates to anyone, when there's an update due in a fortnight.

Not quite squigbuggy levels of craziness, but...

**addnid**

Hive Zefier wrote:
Hi, I signed up to the forum just to weigh in on this. I literally picked up this thread on a google search while looking up this topic.

I'm actually new to 40k, I just recently had a new tabletop wargaming store open next to my work that's convenient to game at so I'd decided to take the plunge and really jump in. I don't want to play Space Marines though, as I'm a fan of Tyranid. (I was a big fan of Zerg prior to getting into 40k) Unfortunately all the factions I'm most interested in (Craftworld Eldar, and to a much lesser extent CSM) are all kind of in that rut of being somewhat neglected.

Despite having gotten some models and began experimenting with painting, the very topic of this thread is making me hesitant to invest more. After-all what if Tyranid fall into the rut Craftworld Eldar are in right now and don't see an update for many years to come? What if I get into this hobby and the games are just no fun? I mean when I go to the hobby store and watch others play I just see Space Marines up and down the aisles.

The very reason I'm looking up this topic is when I'm telling people I want to start 40k with Tyranid, it's very worrying hearing people respond with "Ah, you're starting on Hard Mode." or "Goodluck, you're going to need it." Or watching battle reports with 'Nids against SM and seeing comments like "Well this fight was decided before the armies even deployed."

It's troubling, and if I didn't love the lore and setting of 40k so much I'd probably have backed away to try and get into AoS more. Thankfully I also do want to do more narrative stuff like Crusades rather then real competitive games our tournaments so that's been another blow lessened. Still the sheer focus on Space Marines and the lack of support for the faction I want to play really has caused me to hesitate.

So I can confirm, as a new player this very issue is a roadblock to me getting into the game.

Nids are in a good place but atm investing in Forgeworld Dimachaerons makes it easier. Or just kitbash them from tyranofex + trygon kits, using greenstuff. Issue is as you are beginning, you probably have 0 motivation to do this. Get your hands in the imperial armour update (you can find the pdf online).

**Karol**

Why do people say that marines get updated and other factions do not. That is not true. All through out 8th ed all marines got was the primaris line. Faction specific units for most armies boiled down getting a character, and in case of some marine factions not even that.

In the same time GW made a whole new DG model line, whole new SoB line, new admecha stuff, new chaos stuff for marines and practicaly 3 new model lines for demons, there was even an update to eldar and orks, small as they were. Saying that GW updates only marines is just not true.

**Slipspace**

Karol wrote:
Why do people say that marines get updated and other factions do not. That is not true. All through out 8th ed all marines got was the primaris line. Faction specific units for most armies boiled down getting a character, and in case of some marine factions not even that.

In the same time GW made a whole new DG model line, whole new SoB line, new admecha stuff, new chaos stuff for marines and practicaly 3 new model lines for demons, there was even an update to eldar and orks, small as they were. Saying that GW updates only marines is just not true.

Nobody's seriously saying GW only updates SM models. However, you might want to go and count the number of releases the Primaris line consisted of before you start trying to claim they haven't been vastly, vastly favoured way beyond what most people would consider reasonable at this point.

**Ielthan**

Karol wrote:
Why do people say that marines get updated and other factions do not. That is not true. All through out 8th ed all marines got was the primaris line. Faction specific units for most armies boiled down getting a character, and in case of some marine factions not even that.

In the same time GW made a whole new DG model line, whole new SoB line, new admecha stuff, new chaos stuff for marines and practicaly 3 new model lines for demons, there was even an update to eldar and orks, small as they were. Saying that GW updates only marines is just not true.

"All space marines got was an entire new army"

**dhallnet**

Karol wrote:
Why do people say that marines get updated and other factions do not.

Because marines do and some factions do not. Duh.

All through out 8th ed all marines got was the primaris line.

Yeah, that's all. Really tiny release. I know it sucks to get only 3 times stuff in an update than armies created from the ground up.

Faction specific units for most armies boiled down getting a character, and in case of some marine factions not even that.

The whole marine range is marine's specific release, what are you even trying to say ? That since we don't get even more marines (but this time with specific bling), it's ok ?

**Ordana**

He is trying to say that because there was only 1 specific IH character ALL the other space marine releases don't count for them.

By that metric no other release in the game got anything at all because no one else gets sub faction specific releases. Only Space Marines.

And yes, lol at "we only got Primaris". Thats intercessors, reivers, aggressors, inceptors, hellblasters, Supressors, multiple librarians, multiple lieutenants, apothecary, chaplain, techmarine, bike chaplain, eliminators, infiltrators, invictor, redemptor dread, repulsor, eradicators, bladeguard vets, outriders.

Poor poor space marines only getting the primaris line....

**A.T.**

Karol wrote:
Why do people say that marines get updated and other factions do not.

Because there is a queue for updates 20+ years long and marines/chaos have every other spot on it.

Eldar are actually one of more frequently released non-marine factions and they've gotten all of three characters and one squad in the past half decade. Marines get that many releases as incidental promotional figures every year.

**dan2026**

I keep saying it, but Marines are just rounding out a new, huge complete plastic army of models.
To replace their old huge, complete range of plastic models.

Eldar still have half of their army never upgraded to plastic at all. And another part with models dating back to the freaking 90s.

That's why people are pissed off at Marines.

As someone pointed out a couple of posts earlier, Marines have got more than 20 new kits and single models added to their range in the last few years.
None of which they desparately needed.

And Eldar got 2. Yes 2. For an army that has been waiting for a model revamp for decades its past the point of absurdity.

**drbored**

AngryAngel80 wrote:
At this point you could probably just work on armies and wait till 10th edition drops. It was perhaps inevitable for the edition to drop when it did but it equally feels a bit pointless to some given the nature of the world at the moment.

Also makes you wonder, what will 10th be like ? any ideas ? Just a blatant burn and churn with very minor tweaks ? Just curious what people ponder. How much more marine stuff will drop then ? Curious.

Honestly that's my intention. Following the Rule of Cool, buying the things that are neat for your army and building and painting what you think is awesome and just hope that in the 10th edition it'll be better.

If I had to make a guess as to 10th edition, based on the track of 8th and 9th, I'd guess more stratagems. The new command point system is already far superior to what they had before, but I bet we'll see various tweaks to that based on how broken/nerfed things get through the life of this edition.

I'd also expect a greater focus on Crusade type rules once every codex gets its own Crusade section. "Narrative" apparently equals "Crusade" now, but then, Crusade is very much the big feature of 9th.

Other than that, further tweaks to terrain and such. A lot will depend on the releases we see over the next two years outside of factions, such as terrain sets, campaign books, etc. I'm kind of hoping that the campaign books they're releasing tank, so that they realize they can't just sell us books, they actually need to sell us models, for us to remain interested. And if few people get a chance to really dig into 9th edition, then maybe that'll happen.

For now, I'll focus on my Sisters of Battle, Titanicus stuff, and maybe start a Soulblight army depending on those releases.

**yukishiro1**

Picking a less-played faction in 40k is setting yourself up for risks, because GW doesn't care about keeping you at a certain level of balance. Sometimes you'll be super powerful like Harlequins at the start of 9th, sometimes you'll be super gimp like GSC at the start of 9th. That's something you should go into with eyes wide open if you are looking at picking an army. It's fine if you're ok with it, but if you're going to be frustrated about having a complete roller coaster of balance...you would probably be better off picking space marines, because GW is never going to let them be anything other than powerful again, you can pretty much bank on that. They won't always be the most powerful faction...but they're never going to be trash tier, GW has realized what a mint it gets from printing SM releases and it isn't going to go back to the days when they were sometimes not very good.

That's just what 40k is: a game overwhelmingly dominated by a particular faction. If that's a problem, it's probably not the game for you, because it isn't going to change - in fact, it's only gotten progressively worse over the years, not better.

Now within that dominance there is actually plenty of room for people who don't like space marines...but you have to approach it with the attitude that you're the constant underdog, and you're constantly going to have to be battling against unfair odds, whether that's rules or the attention you get in the model department. If you can embrace that underdog status, it can be a lot of fun to play one of the unfavored factions. But you have to accept that's what you are: a second-class citizen within the game's design space.

**Stormonu**

addnid wrote:
If I was a GW exec, and if I saw other companies trying to screw me with alt miniatures, well I would also leave the units being "copied" with gak rules. This way customers would not be too tempted to buy them.

For all GW's faults, it is their game, it is not Artels' game or any other company's game. They are a business, not a charity/government scheme supporting other businesses. Why don't people understand that ? Artel has perhaps dug the grave for the Druk and CW models they targeted for piracy. If I was GW, with the upcoming druk release, I would overcost grotesques if I didn't plan a redo of the resin kit, just to spite them.

Piracy is a problem for a company, no one should think it is not ("oooh but GW is such a big company the bastards !").

Someone needs to do this to marines - copy the hell out of them, so GW will give them gak rules!

**Karol**

A.T. wrote:
Karol wrote:
Why do people say that marines get updated and other factions do not.
Because there is a queue for updates 20+ years long and marines/chaos have every other spot on it.

Eldar are actually one of more frequently released non-marine factions and they've gotten all of three characters and one squad in the past half decade. Marines get that many releases as incidental promotional figures every year.

no people already posted that loyalist marines never get more then 40% of stuff per edition, and this makes sense considering how much of a market they make for GW. You are right that the slots are limited, but getting angry at marines make no sense. If in 7th or 8th your non marine army, didn't get updated then you should be angry at those armies that did get updates. Stuff like SoB, GSC, Ad Mecha , 1ksons or DG. Those are the armies that share the release spots with other non loyalist marines.

And Eldar got 2. Yes 2. For an army that has been waiting for a model revamp for decades its past the point of absurdity.

how many new models did the DA get in their release cycle? 1 character . SW got ragnar, a Lt and an upgrade sprue. IF and RG got an upgrade sprue and a special character. BA got a lot stuff, because they got an Lt, Mefisto and upgrade sprue . Comparing to CF or BT those got nothing, not even an upgrade sprue. Meanwhile something like DG got a full reset of model line. Where are the WS outridder bikers or SW primaris TWC , or even mounted and jump pack characters for primaris. It took more then an edition to get just the chaplain on bike. And in the mean time a ton of armies were revamped. Yes eldar were not, because eldar players had such good rules that they were willing to buy their stuff plastic or resin no matter what. It only become a problem now, when the line is old and the rules are bad. But eldar players didn't even have a bad rule set for an entire edition. Maybe the eldar players should wait till they see their codex , they sure told me that. Wait for codex, CA, update CA etc. When after 2 editions eldar are bad, maybe then you will be in the right to say they are being treated bad.

**Ordana**

Karol, no one is buying your attempt to avoid faction releases and focus on sub-faction only and then somehow comparing that to entire armies.

**dhallnet**

Karol wrote:
how many new models did the DA get in their release cycle? 1 character .

So I play DA... Do you mean I shouldn't be building the content of this Indomitus box while answering to you because it's not written "gloomy boys" on it ?

**A.T.**

Karol wrote:
You are right that the slots are limited, but getting angry at marines make no sense. If in 7th or 8th your non marine army, didn't get updated then you should be angry at those armies that did get updates. Stuff like SoB, GSC, Ad Mecha , 1ksons or DG. Those are the armies that share the release spots with other non loyalist marines

You are in a queue for something. There are 10 people ahead of you.

The guy at the front gets his thing and then pushes his way back into the queue ahead of you to go again. And again. And again.

Why would you be angry at the other nine people in the queue?

**the_scotsman**

Karol wrote:
Why do people say that marines get updated and other factions do not. That is not true. All through out 8th ed all marines got was the primaris line. Faction specific units for most armies boiled down getting a character, and in case of some marine factions not even that.

In the same time GW made a whole new DG model line, whole new SoB line, new admecha stuff, new chaos stuff for marines and practicaly 3 new model lines for demons, there was even an update to eldar and orks, small as they were. Saying that GW updates only marines is just not true.

I dunno, could it be that some marine factions like Space Wolves literally got a codex, then content in PA, then content in the marine codex 3.0, then more content in a supplement months after that, with free rules as a hold-over in a PDF released a month before that?

The world may never know why people seem to think marine factions are getting special treatment...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stormonu wrote:
addnid wrote:
If I was a GW exec, and if I saw other companies trying to screw me with alt miniatures, well I would also leave the units being "copied" with gak rules. This way customers would not be too tempted to buy them.

For all GW's faults, it is their game, it is not Artels' game or any other company's game. They are a business, not a charity/government scheme supporting other businesses. Why don't people understand that ? Artel has perhaps dug the grave for the Druk and CW models they targeted for piracy. If I was GW, with the upcoming druk release, I would overcost grotesques if I didn't plan a redo of the resin kit, just to spite them.

Piracy is a problem for a company, no one should think it is not ("oooh but GW is such a big company the bastards !").

Someone needs to do this to marines - copy the hell out of them, so GW will give them gak rules!

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh if you think I couldn't 3d print every single primaris marine miniature in existence for zero money with top quality and themed toward any chapter of my choosing, I've got something to let you know...

Marines are all the feth over thingiverse.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:
Why do people say that marines get updated and other factions do not. That is not true. All through out 8th ed all marines got was the primaris line.

Which again, reminder, was 4 times the number of kits of the entire sisters of battle model range relaunch. the most up-to-date army in the game received 4x as much stuff, and 10 supplements, and 3 codexes, as the army that waited what, 25 years?

**dan2026**

Last I checked 75% of the Marine range pre-Primaris wasn’t old metal now resin models than haven’t had an update in twenty years.

Unlike you know, Eldar.

And now Space Marines have a huge new army of plastic Primaris Marine models.

And Eldar still have those twenty year old metal/resin models.

This is why I am so pissed off!

**NinthMusketeer**

I feel like the self fulfilling prophecy of "marine kits sell, so we should make more, eldar kits don't sell so we shouldn't" really comes into play. Particularly because when they have done new eldar kits the prices have just happened to be particularly painful relative to other releases, affecting sales further. That phoenix box could may have had foolish management thinking 'oh people don't like eldar' while missing or undervaluing the effect of how high priced it was vs what you got.

**ccs**

the_scotsman wrote:

I dunno, could it be that some marine factions like Space Wolves literally got a codex, then content in PA, then content in the marine codex 3.0, then more content in a supplement months after that, with free rules as a hold-over in a PDF released a month before that?

The world may never know why people seem to think marine factions are getting special treatment...

Oh, those people are just mistaken.
This is NOT special treatment, just standard operating procedure.