Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Karol wrote:
Possible, but from what I understand the line was plastic. the tanks, the units etc were all plastic. I can't judge the characters, because people here buy recasts of those, but even if all were resin too, this is still a largely finish plastic model line comparing to a resin SoB or almost resin eldar one.

The core of the cron army from their 2002 line was warriors, desroyers, and monoliths - all plastic. GW didn't touch those in the 5e update that I can remember, just the metal models like wraiths and immortals. Most of the 5e release was new units.
I think only the the old lord and c'tan models were left when finecast arrived.

dhallnet wrote:
Which, as far as I know, isn't much less than they ever had

Roughly half the line was squatted.

Gives you some context on the scale of the eldar (and other bigger factions like guard, orks, etc) when comparing the number of kits needed to completely revamp one of these old minor factions as compared to trying to keep a larger faction up to date. The eldar are particularly bad with ten distinct infantry units that all need distinct character models and which just don't share parts.

For the necron releases : https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Miniatures:_Necrons

A.T. wrote:
Roughly half the line was squatted..

Do you mean in the time leading to the new release or before they got announced in plastic ? Because my memories really don't mesh with that statement for the era before the announcment (after, I don't think I kept tabs at all on what they were doing with the range).
Anyway, sure the range wasn't varied (but it never really was) and it was an "easy" (comparatively) one to update.

dhallnet wrote:
Do you mean in the time leading to the new release or before they got announced in plastic ? Because my memories really don't mesh with that statement for the era before the announcment (after, I don't think I kept tabs at all on what they were doing with the range).

There were a total of 42 unique metal sisters models ever released, six vehicle kits, and for sake of clarity we will leave aside the inquisition and ecclesiarchy elements.

The limited ephrael, site-only seraphim superior, old canoness, old banner, and old immolator were culled in the run up to the 2004 release.
Around 2014 they trimmed down on pose variations for superiors and special weapons (~8 models), and the three forgeworld vehicles became unavailable.

The remainder dried up over the next year or so down to an army of two dozen models, but some were re-added a couple of years back (seraphim superior, dialogus) as GW started to work towards the new line.

-----------------

The player base was so tiny and the line so obsolete GW didn't really have any need to release new units to sell to existing players alongside the rescuplts.

Eldar are not in the same situation - as was mentioned before they actually recieved slightly more models than dark eldar over the past few editions but they have so much to update alongside adding of new models compared to the smaller factions that those updates slip further and further back. Same for other big factions like guard.

Honestly I dont get why they dont give each aspect squad a variant weapon type Intercessor style.

They fit 6x swords and 6x kisses alongside 8 other alternate weapons in the harlequin kit - why couldn't they have done like all-triskele banshees or bring back a weapon that referenced the fact that they used to also have power axes like how the caress references harlequins with powerfists?

 jaredb wrote:

drbored wrote:

Ielthan wrote:
I'm a bit surprised at how many people want a new larger scale avatar, isn't that what the forgeworld one is? Just get that, it's not dissimilarly priced from an equivalent plastic one would cost. I have the one with spear and can tell you it's absolutely perfect!

A lot of people either...

-Don't want to work with resin, because it's a pain, has many flaws, etc...
-Don't want to order from ForgeWorld, because of long shipping times, or unavailability in their country...

I do like the bigger avatar from ForgeWorld, I think it's perfect, but it'd be nice to have that... in plastic.

Agreed, I only want to work in plastic. A plastic avatar would be great.

I see, tbh I much prefer high quality resin (not the resin GW uses, but forgeworld, mierce etc.), you seem to get much more natural looking sculpts cast in it, similar to metal models. I'm not really a fan of GW's plastic models in general, the sharpness of the edges on absolutely everything makes them look too toy like to my eyes, and the obsessive addition of "spikey bits" often just looks like overusing cad components to save time in the sculpting process. As someone who uses 3d modelling softwares for work, I look at current gw minis and can see the cad in them, it's like seeing visual effects in films that aren't quite upto scratch and you start thinking about that rather than paying attention to the film. Also I really wish they'd stop trying to sculpt visual effects, it just isn't convincing. Another little thing I've been picking up on a lot is that I get the sense that some of the sculptors they're using are not really artists, but technicians, you can see it in the poses, the balance and contropost is often just not really there, and they end up looking not terrible but kind of off. I thought the new Eldrad was a good example of this, I really doubt some of them are still starting with drawing, but are instead going straight to cad, and it kind of shows.

I much prefer handsculpted models, and the minor imperfections that come with it, just gives them character, a soul if you will indulge me. I get cad allows for some amazing possibilities, but tbh outside of some of the vehicles (though beauties such as the Eldar titans were hand sculpted) I haven't really seen anything from GW that's really sold me on it.

I understand this is a very minority opinion, but until they can cad something that can match the sheer beauty of CMON's Cang the Implacable, or some of the Hasslefree or Claymore castings infantry, or the Perry twins stuff, or Karol Rudyk, I'll remain unconvinced.

P.S. Also some of those gw plastics break bend/snap do damn easily in even good transport cases, very annoying given the prices.

Karol wrote:

Ok, then I don't understand what eldar players are unhappy about.

At this point we've been extremely clear about what we complain for. If you're too daft to understand what we mean then please stop bringing your opinion in here since to discuss things, you should really understand the issue.

Karol wrote:

Ok, then I don't understand what eldar players are unhappy about. Besides their armies not having good rules right now. GW does not spend more time updating marines more then they usually do, they do update other factions and from ground up. they just don't seem to see any need to do it with eldar at the start of 9th ed and through out most of 8th. Or do eldar player claim that ad mecha or DG shouldn't have gotten their updated and they should have gotten it instead?

They (we) are unhappy about the range of miniatures because it has, on average, probably roughly your age and it's showing in some places. Nobody is saying GW should stop everything and deal with eldars, right now. But, the range is big and the oldest in average, so there should be more releases to replace old sprues/sculpts and less "look, that thing we did two years ago, we did it again !". Which is why there is a hope that we're seeing the end of the marine madness such as other factions gets updated (updates which would reach Eldars eventually).

it costs them in the term of lost possible income. |If they produce something like indomitus, or even its scalper version like honored of the chapter, it will sell and it will sell with larger numbers then trying to sell anything else. And then they have to weight it against the update slots eldar share with other non marine armies. What will make GW more money. A new necron or sob line, which maybe isn't selling at all in its past form, or a new eldar line. And if GW decideds that making new necron or sob will make them more money, then making new eldar, they will update those first. Through out 8th ed eldar seemed to have sold just fine from GW point of view. And if it is fine, then why should they change it. And I don't claim that this makes the eldar player happy, but being angry at it is like being angry at reality.

So basically you're saying that they shouldn't update a range until it isn't selling anymore, unless it's marines. So we go back to they don't sell because they aren't updated and marines account for XX% of sales because they also account for XX% of products made.
But I kinda agree. They are interested in burst of income and not a steady flow for some reason (probably production capacity but who knows). Or rather, the marines are the steady flow of cash and everything else is padding annual results.
Doesn't mean it's what their customers want though.

well clearly GW decided that updating all the factions they updated in 8th and 9th, other then eldar, would have made them more money. And there were more then a few. Ad mecha got a ton of models, as did knights, new necron, new sob , new DG. Even csm got a good chunk of a new model line, same as demons that share the line with AoS. One can not say that GW did not make new model lines for w40k. They just decided that updating stuff like tau, eldar or d eldar is not profitable enough at given time.

And these SMs every quarter. But anyway, you see a part of the picture, if they can create so much stuff from scratch, maybe they can throw us a bone once in a while so we get rid of the old junk. And yeah, maybe it will take the slot of one unit for some one else. Not sure it's that much of a deal as long as release rotates between factions rather than "you, you get all this pile of stuff, then you, you get these few kit, then you, you get that clam pack, oh and you, we'll see you in ten years".

considering the cost of a single unit, I would say that SoB made not a very valid army for w40k players. And I think it was even true for people living in countries other my.

No they weren't if you didn't start your army when they were still current (and even at that time). But your point was that the range wasn't sold anymore, not that it wasn't cheap enough.

well that too. But the fact is that rules do sell the models. I doubt there is much sells being generated by marine scouts right now. Attack bikes on the other hand are popular. So if an army is old, and eldar clearly are an old army when some units are considered, but people still play it because it has powerful rules, and by playing I mean also buying the models, GW is satisifed with that. I don't think they really care how old their model line is or how good their rule sets are. As long as someone goes out and buys 3-5 flyers and 30 dark reapers, and some jetbikers to convert in to shining spears they find it okey enough. Now if line does not sell at all, it is a completly different problem. The question is, what is easier to do for them Update the rules and make people buy the old models again, they can clearly make marine players want to buy attack bikes or venguard vets or old dreadnoughts, or invest time and money to make a new model line. I think the first is easier for them to do, and in many ways, this is what they have done with eldar a few times. They also did the other thing too, from stories I heard when GW updated eldar with new plastic models, the waveserpents, jetbikers and wright knights were selling crazy good. having powerful rules helped with that too of course.

The rules HELP sell models and vice versa. But we're buying models first as they won't change and will potentially stay with us forever, the rules will change though and what is OP today can become totally useless tomorrow. I thought you were aware of this with all your GK woes. The amount of people buying older kits just because they are competitive is extremely small compared to what the range could sell if it was in good shape.
Older players already have what they need and newer players don't want to start an army with models older than them, eventhough "omg if I spam this odd choice 6 times eventhough I don't like the minis, I might win games, awesome". So you're left with the odd meta chasing players which would be ready to start an army they don't own and wouldn't turn toward ebay or some other market place to get their models. This isn't really a big market, whatever the Internet made you believe.

Hi, I signed up to the forum just to weigh in on this. I literally picked up this thread on a google search while looking up this topic.

I'm actually new to 40k, I just recently had a new tabletop wargaming store open next to my work that's convenient to game at so I'd decided to take the plunge and really jump in. I don't want to play Space Marines though, as I'm a fan of Tyranid. (I was a big fan of Zerg prior to getting into 40k) Unfortunately all the factions I'm most interested in (Craftworld Eldar, and to a much lesser extent CSM) are all kind of in that rut of being somewhat neglected.

Despite having gotten some models and began experimenting with painting, the very topic of this thread is making me hesitant to invest more. After-all what if Tyranid fall into the rut Craftworld Eldar are in right now and don't see an update for many years to come? What if I get into this hobby and the games are just no fun? I mean when I go to the hobby store and watch others play I just see Space Marines up and down the aisles.

The very reason I'm looking up this topic is when I'm telling people I want to start 40k with Tyranid, it's very worrying hearing people respond with "Ah, you're starting on Hard Mode." or "Goodluck, you're going to need it." Or watching battle reports with 'Nids against SM and seeing comments like "Well this fight was decided before the armies even deployed."

It's troubling, and if I didn't love the lore and setting of 40k so much I'd probably have backed away to try and get into AoS more. Thankfully I also do want to do more narrative stuff like Crusades rather then real competitive games our tournaments so that's been another blow lessened. Still the sheer focus on Space Marines and the lack of support for the faction I want to play really has caused me to hesitate.

So I can confirm, as a new player this very issue is a roadblock to me getting into the game.

Don't worry about nids.

Hive Zefier wrote:
Hi, I signed up to the forum just to weigh in on this. I literally picked up this thread on a google search while looking up this topic.

I'm actually new to 40k, I just recently had a new tabletop wargaming store open next to my work that's convenient to game at so I'd decided to take the plunge and really jump in. I don't want to play Space Marines though, as I'm a fan of Tyranid. (I was a big fan of Zerg prior to getting into 40k) Unfortunately all the factions I'm most interested in (Craftworld Eldar, and to a much lesser extent CSM) are all kind of in that rut of being somewhat neglected.

Despite having gotten some models and began experimenting with painting, the very topic of this thread is making me hesitant to invest more. After-all what if Tyranid fall into the rut Craftworld Eldar are in right now and don't see an update for many years to come? What if I get into this hobby and the games are just no fun? I mean when I go to the hobby store and watch others play I just see Space Marines up and down the aisles.

The very reason I'm looking up this topic is when I'm telling people I want to start 40k with Tyranid, it's very worrying hearing people respond with "Ah, you're starting on Hard Mode." or "Goodluck, you're going to need it." Or watching battle reports with 'Nids against SM and seeing comments like "Well this fight was decided before the armies even deployed."

It's troubling, and if I didn't love the lore and setting of 40k so much I'd probably have backed away to try and get into AoS more. Thankfully I also do want to do more narrative stuff like Crusades rather then real competitive games our tournaments so that's been another blow lessened. Still the sheer focus on Space Marines and the lack of support for the faction I want to play really has caused me to hesitate.

So I can confirm, as a new player this very issue is a roadblock to me getting into the game.

Welcome!!

^Tyranids are awesome. I actually started my Tyranid army out of "marine fatigue" and I really haven't been disappointed. It's actually proven to be the most fun army that I play. I love my Marines, mind you. . . but I really do enjoy actually playing Nids more.

Other people who have played Nids longer will be able to tell you more about them as a competitive army, but one thing that I've found very useful about Nids is that they have a huge array of statlines and flexibility in their troops. I've basically always been able to find some sort of solution to any table-top problem that's come up. I play using the Hive Fleet Jormangander rules, leveraging tunneling units to keep my attacking options feeling fresh.

I would say that Nids have always had a place in 40K, they're never quite bottom of the pile and have gotten a fair amount of attention over the years compared to other Xenos factions. They have a fairly complete plastic range, so the idea that they will suffer like CWE is not likely - they don't have the same problem of 20+ year old sculpts or minis made in bad materials (for the most part - there are a couple of left over minis, but no where near as bad).

That said, if you play Xenos you will always be second class in terms of model releases, book releases and so on. That's an unfortunate fact. It doesn't have to mean you won't enjoy the game though. The meta is heavily skewed toward things that can kill marines, so non-Marine armies can often compete fairly well just due to the fact that people have not optimised to deal with them.

Nids are really cool and visually coherent. If you collect an army of them you're going to have fun with it. I think the best mindset is to not really expect to be treated like the Space Marines at all, and just be happy with the cool stuff you currently have model wise, treating anything new like a nice bonus. You won't get as many kits as frequently as the marines. But that's fine really, who needs new stuff all the time when you've got your army? It's not really required to have new stuff to buy.

The downside can come along with the rules. Sometimes Xenos factions do end up with disappointing rules because the Design Studio half ass it. Other times they might end up as one of the strongest factions due to how the meta works out. The good (?) news is, 40K rules are always in a state of flux these days, so who is top dog and who is not changes over time. From one edition to the next who is on top can switch around. So I think it's not something to worry too much about unless you intend on playing very competitively. If you're new, you should be aware that Space Marines just went through a phase of being really over powered at the end of the last edition. It's not clear how it's going to shake out in the long term.

So tl, dr: You can have a lot of fun with your nids, but have realistic expectations about it. You're not going to get the same amount of attention from GW as a space marine player will, but that doesn't have to mean it's a negative experience.

Racerguy180 wrote:
Don't worry about nids.

I don't agree with this; you can win with Nids, but in unintuitive, mostly unrewarding ways (unless you're monster mashing with FW monsters, and I assume somebody starting out doesn't have those), and winning does take a very strong grasp of the game (see stormcoil's batreps on reddit.) Starting the game and fighting your buddy with Marines, you're going to have trouble.

I am actually losing interest due to OP PA supplements still being in use. They are just so incredibly frustrating to play against and they make so many options in the game sub par. I really want custodes/Quinns/and daemons to get updates immediately - so they can receive the toning down that they need.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I am actually losing interest due to OP PA supplements still being in use. They are just so incredibly frustrating to play against and they make so many options in the game sub par. I really want custodes/Quinns/and daemons to get updates immediately - so they can receive the toning down that they need.

aw man that combined 10% of the play meta must really be getting you down. In the 1 in 10 games you have to play against one of those armies it must be so tough.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I am actually losing interest due to OP PA supplements still being in use. They are just so incredibly frustrating to play against and they make so many options in the game sub par. I really want custodes/Quinns/and daemons to get updates immediately - so they can receive the toning down that they need.

aw man that combined 10% of the play meta must really be getting you down. In the 1 in 10 games you have to play against one of those armies it must be so tough.

I play in a really hard core environment. Pretty much every game is against these type lists. My main opponents armies are custodes and quins. It really getting old.

 Xenomancers wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I am actually losing interest due to OP PA supplements still being in use. They are just so incredibly frustrating to play against and they make so many options in the game sub par. I really want custodes/Quinns/and daemons to get updates immediately - so they can receive the toning down that they need.

aw man that combined 10% of the play meta must really be getting you down. In the 1 in 10 games you have to play against one of those armies it must be so tough.

I play in a really hard core environment. Pretty much every game is against these type lists. My main opponents armies are custodes and quins. It really getting old.

*shrug* so theyll move on to making you miserable with the new DG and Dark Angels when those 3 factions get FAQed or updated. If you play in a really hardcore competitive environment, they'll always make 80% of the stuff in the game sub par, that's how being in a competitive environment works. You be miserable the entire time and justify it by believing that you're having fun better or more efficiently or something than the filthy casuals.

 Xenomancers wrote:

I play in a really hard core environment. Pretty much every game is against these type lists. My main opponents armies are custodes and quins. It really getting old.

Wait a minute... werent you the one telling people to stop complaining about Marines' popularity and to just accept it?
And yeah, if you play exclusively with meta chasers that play the top tier armies, you're always gonna be stuck playing against the best army over and over....

 Xenomancers wrote:
I am actually losing interest due to OP PA supplements still being in use. They are just so incredibly frustrating to play against and they make so many options in the game sub par. I really want custodes/Quinns/and daemons to get updates immediately - so they can receive the toning down that they need.

2.0 books oppress the game: "This is good, it just seems bad because a lot of people play Marines" "They will probably be garbage by the end of the edition"

PA books remain after Marines get brought down a peg: "This is incredibly frustrating to play against and make so many options in the game sub par"

 Eldarain wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I am actually losing interest due to OP PA supplements still being in use. They are just so incredibly frustrating to play against and they make so many options in the game sub par. I really want custodes/Quinns/and daemons to get updates immediately - so they can receive the toning down that they need.

2.0 books oppress the game: "This is good, it just seems bad because a lot of people play Marines" "They will probably be garbage by the end of the edition"

PA books remain after Marines get brought down a peg: "This is incredibly frustrating to play against and make so many options in the game sub par"

Nah pretty much everyone acknowledged the absurdity of IH and other broken codex. They were nerfed in short time by GW standards (within a month or 2) Quins/daemons have been broken for like what...a year now?

Removed

Hive Zefier wrote:
Hi, I signed up to the forum just to weigh in on this. I literally picked up this thread on a google search while looking up this topic.

I'm actually new to 40k, I just recently had a new tabletop wargaming store open next to my work that's convenient to game at so I'd decided to take the plunge and really jump in. I don't want to play Space Marines though, as I'm a fan of Tyranid. (I was a big fan of Zerg prior to getting into 40k) Unfortunately all the factions I'm most interested in (Craftworld Eldar, and to a much lesser extent CSM) are all kind of in that rut of being somewhat neglected.

Despite having gotten some models and began experimenting with painting, the very topic of this thread is making me hesitant to invest more. After-all what if Tyranid fall into the rut Craftworld Eldar are in right now and don't see an update for many years to come? What if I get into this hobby and the games are just no fun? I mean when I go to the hobby store and watch others play I just see Space Marines up and down the aisles.

The very reason I'm looking up this topic is when I'm telling people I want to start 40k with Tyranid, it's very worrying hearing people respond with "Ah, you're starting on Hard Mode." or "Goodluck, you're going to need it." Or watching battle reports with 'Nids against SM and seeing comments like "Well this fight was decided before the armies even deployed."

It's troubling, and if I didn't love the lore and setting of 40k so much I'd probably have backed away to try and get into AoS more. Thankfully I also do want to do more narrative stuff like Crusades rather then real competitive games our tournaments so that's been another blow lessened. Still the sheer focus on Space Marines and the lack of support for the faction I want to play really has caused me to hesitate.

So I can confirm, as a new player this very issue is a roadblock to me getting into the game.

Welcome to the saltmine .

OK Jokes aside, nids are a good choice, generally modelwise they get the better inovative side of gw and as others Stated are Quite fun.

The most important thing is, that you Find a Group fitting for your playstyle. ( Be that comp, Beer and pretzels, narrative , etc.)
And that you learn hobbywise the skills , since that can Make you independant from gw's goodwill.

And yes i can understand that this thread would bother you, however Overall i still think the Hobby is Worth it. Take it however as a Disclaimer that gw can Make it really annoying aswell .
Dakka and Lord knows i've been recently more pissed off at gw's handeling of their ip than others here, especially since gw decided to banish my Main army into the abyss of the "legends" section.
And i believe that is testimony as to the strength of the Hobby, even in such a Situation a good playgroup aswell as some skills learned can overcome even that. But that is despite gw and not due to gw.

Welcome to the game, Dakka can be salty but there's occasionally some great discussions here. Enjoy!

 techsoldaten wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
...You sound like such a real person...

Obviously it's impossible for anyone who's never played 40k to have done any research into the game beforehand. We all entered completely blind with no clue what we were getting into.

Nah. No one starts by talking like a seasoned player. Complete BS.

Let me be the first to make that weasel feel unwelcome and threatened.

I've only played one or two 500 point games on Tabletop Sim, and without Command Points as a friend was trying to teach me basic rules.

How was I talking like a seasoned player? I didn't mention anything about Tournament Balance or Faction Balance, I literally just listed off some stuff people at the game store told me and stuff I've heard from youtube comment sections.

The Lore stuff I mostly know after leaping off of Dawn of War and listening to audiobooks (I just got done Blood of Baal and I'm starting Infinite and the Divine) but I'm not really savvy in the in game mechanics. This entire controversy I became aware of thanks to Chapter Master Valrak on youtube. I even blatantly said I don't want to get involved in competitive games, more Crusades which I do find rather interesting as I've watched a few videos, primarily from SkaredCast and his Druhkari.

If you want some proof, I'm Raptor Zefier on youtube, and for a couple months now I've been commenting on Valrak's videos about my new Tyranid and my thoughts on them. I commented on one of Baldermort's videos all of a month ago also mentioning my new army: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IpCIMysIj0&lc=Ugx6XcvVnMDJbyVTT1N4AaABAg

I've also been in the 40k subreddit, hashing out lore for my Tyranid there under the same username: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/kpwhiy/can_a_tyranid_splinter_fleet_grow_into_a_proper/ As an example from two months ago. ( Hive *Zefier* admittedly is a bit lame but you get the idea, I just removed the Raptor part and slotted in Hive. ) I'm still trying to hash out proper lore and story for my Splinter Fleet.

As yet further proof, an actual image of my rather pitiful and terribly painted collection so far as I'm just trying out a color scheme I like: (I'm hoping the amateur paint work is convincing enough)

If you're wondering why it's been a few months and I haven't played yet, I'm still working up to making my first warriors, I've been painting gaunts slowly one at a time and I'm building up to making Warriors, which I want to magnetize as everyone has suggested I do that. Which worries me a bit since I'm afraid I'll wreck them even with a video guide so I've been delaying, alongside balancing it with other hobbies. I don't have a complete army yet as a result though Tabletop Sim has been helpful in learning some of the basics with friends.



As for everyone else, thanks for the advice and input! I'll stick with them as I really do love the aesthetic and lore of the Tyranid. It goes a long way to making me want to stick with getting into the hobby, this doubt has been what's keeping me from getting something really big like some good carnifexes or a proper Hive Tyrant. I really don't mind losing, I don't have much interest in competitive, I'm looking more into narrative stories and campaigns, and given Tyranid are the bad guys I'm banking on losing and being the bad-guy in someone else's space marine army or something. I just don't want it to be such a one-sided stomp that I don't get to have any fun from it, if that makes any sense. (One of my only two games was against Ad-mech, which promptly wiped the floor with my army without me taking a single model of theirs in turn. Admittedly due to a lot of mistakes on my part.)

If you're a Crusader, loosing isn't a big deal. Basically, a Crusade game is an attempt to get as many of your units as possible to achieve an agenda, so that they can earn experience.

When someone plays hard to win, they often make it possible for you to do that.

So you can have a situation where you lose, but half the units in your army end up with Battle Honours and your opponent gains none.

I highly recommend Crusade if you can find a crew to play it.

 Eldarain wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I am actually losing interest due to OP PA supplements still being in use. They are just so incredibly frustrating to play against and they make so many options in the game sub par. I really want custodes/Quinns/and daemons to get updates immediately - so they can receive the toning down that they need.

2.0 books oppress the game: "This is good, it just seems bad because a lot of people play Marines" "They will probably be garbage by the end of the edition"

PA books remain after Marines get brought down a peg: "This is incredibly frustrating to play against and make so many options in the game sub par"

The irony wasn't lost on me either.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I am actually losing interest due to OP PA supplements still being in use. They are just so incredibly frustrating to play against and they make so many options in the game sub par. I really want custodes/Quinns/and daemons to get updates immediately - so they can receive the toning down that they need.

2.0 books oppress the game: "This is good, it just seems bad because a lot of people play Marines" "They will probably be garbage by the end of the edition"

PA books remain after Marines get brought down a peg: "This is incredibly frustrating to play against and make so many options in the game sub par"

Nah pretty much everyone acknowledged the absurdity of IH and other broken codex. They were nerfed in short time by GW standards (within a month or 2) Quins/daemons have been broken for like what...a year now?

So how much of that time has there not been basically any tourney data because of the apocalypse? Also, if you think the broken stuff from the 2.0 supplements was nerfed in a month....man, idk what to tell you man. You're living in the squigbuggy timeline.

Hive Zefier wrote:
Hi, I signed up to the forum just to weigh in on this. I literally picked up this thread on a google search while looking up this topic.

I'm actually new to 40k, I just recently had a new tabletop wargaming store open next to my work that's convenient to game at so I'd decided to take the plunge and really jump in. I don't want to play Space Marines though, as I'm a fan of Tyranid. (I was a big fan of Zerg prior to getting into 40k) Unfortunately all the factions I'm most interested in (Craftworld Eldar, and to a much lesser extent CSM) are all kind of in that rut of being somewhat neglected.

Despite having gotten some models and began experimenting with painting, the very topic of this thread is making me hesitant to invest more. After-all what if Tyranid fall into the rut Craftworld Eldar are in right now and don't see an update for many years to come? What if I get into this hobby and the games are just no fun? I mean when I go to the hobby store and watch others play I just see Space Marines up and down the aisles.

The very reason I'm looking up this topic is when I'm telling people I want to start 40k with Tyranid, it's very worrying hearing people respond with "Ah, you're starting on Hard Mode." or "Goodluck, you're going to need it." Or watching battle reports with 'Nids against SM and seeing comments like "Well this fight was decided before the armies even deployed."

It's troubling, and if I didn't love the lore and setting of 40k so much I'd probably have backed away to try and get into AoS more. Thankfully I also do want to do more narrative stuff like Crusades rather then real competitive games our tournaments so that's been another blow lessened. Still the sheer focus on Space Marines and the lack of support for the faction I want to play really has caused me to hesitate.

So I can confirm, as a new player this very issue is a roadblock to me getting into the game.

Welcome and try not to worry so much. Most of the Nid line has seen some love off and on and hasn't had such a long hiatus as the Eldars have suffered. Here is the thing, collect, work on and play with the faction you want because they make you happy. No faction is the best forever its a constant cycle but Nids have been alright for most of the time I've played the game which is a long time at this point. By all means limit your investment if you wish to, if it will make you feel safer. I would say you are pretty safe with Nids though, just get some experience and settle on a game style you like for how they play and so long as you know your army well you should give as good as you get. Some forces though will always be " the best " options its just the nature of any game.

Hope you have a good stay and don't let the salt get you down. Most people here are just passionate and that passion can go up and down as the cause dictates.

drbored wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Considering how frequently threads for wargames get derailed by talk of space marines taking over 40k, it is somewhat cathartic to see a thread about space marines taking over 40k get derailed with talk of various other wargames.

Assume that by the 2nd page, no topic is actually on the topic that was on the first page.

Thinking about asking a mod to lock this thread since it seems like it's pretty much a handful of people arguing about whether the sky is blue at this point.

Ultramarine blue

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I am actually losing interest due to OP PA supplements still being in use. They are just so incredibly frustrating to play against and they make so many options in the game sub par. I really want custodes/Quinns/and daemons to get updates immediately - so they can receive the toning down that they need.

2.0 books oppress the game: "This is good, it just seems bad because a lot of people play Marines" "They will probably be garbage by the end of the edition"

PA books remain after Marines get brought down a peg: "This is incredibly frustrating to play against and make so many options in the game sub par"

Nah pretty much everyone acknowledged the absurdity of IH and other broken codex. They were nerfed in short time by GW standards (within a month or 2) Quins/daemons have been broken for like what...a year now?

So how much of that time has there not been basically any tourney data because of the apocalypse? Also, if you think the broken stuff from the 2.0 supplements was nerfed in a month....man, idk what to tell you man. You're living in the squigbuggy timeline.

It was a month or 2 until the first round of nerfs came in. No desire to look any of this up though because it is irrelevant by at least a factor of 4. This crap that came out at the end of 8.5 is ALL bonkers. Tournament data on this point is undebatable. It is a good thing daemons and quinns are relatively rare because the game would literally be ruined for everyone otherwise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

drbored wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Considering how frequently threads for wargames get derailed by talk of space marines taking over 40k, it is somewhat cathartic to see a thread about space marines taking over 40k get derailed with talk of various other wargames.

Assume that by the 2nd page, no topic is actually on the topic that was on the first page.

Thinking about asking a mod to lock this thread since it seems like it's pretty much a handful of people arguing about whether the sky is blue at this point.

Ultramarine blue

The topic is - "losing interest thanks to space marines" I'd say - I am losing interest due to lack of updates for anyone. Give me Nids! Give me Astra Militarum! Give me anything but nothing!

 Xenomancers wrote:
The topic is - "losing interest thanks to space marines" I'd say - I am losing interest due to lack of updates for anyone. Give me Nids! Give me Astra Militarum! Give me anything but nothing!

You get DE in a fortnight, assuming a normal single week pre-order period - will that shut you up for a bit?