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I'm hoping it's more like Warhammer Fantasy and not 40k. Walking Dead was already an absurd break.
The initial announcement might just be flawed.

I really hope that EDH/Commander doesn't become nothing but various colors of marines like 40k currently is.

Ugh, official announcement says 40k: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/magics-voyages-universes-beyond-2021-02-25
Here I was hoping that Comic Book Resources blog got their stuff wrong as usual.

More of this crap? Ugh. I play Magic for Magic, not half-assed license-palooza.

Hmm, release at least says not standard legal, hopefully that stretches out to a few other metas. While I think it may be cool to play a game of commander where everyone has a 40k deck. I really don't want to see 40k cards mixed in a normal game of commander.

 Absolutionis wrote:
I'm hoping it's more like Warhammer Fantasy and not 40k. Walking Dead was already an absurd break.
The initial announcement might just be flawed.

I really hope that EDH/Commander doesn't become nothing but various colors of marines like 40k currently is.

Ugh, official announcement says 40k: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/magics-voyages-universes-beyond-2021-02-25
Here I was hoping that Comic Book Resources blog got their stuff wrong as usual.

The official GW announcement was pretty clear it'll be 40K.

40K doesn't make as much sense story/theme wise, but as a marketing move it makes more sense. As much as GW might love AoS (and its clear right now that AoS is getting the creative team love in buckets) 40K is the bigger name.

This is also likely part of their huge outreach program to lure in new gamers. Ties into things like the animated TV series that they are steadily having produced and for which I suspect AoS versions aren't ready for.


That said AoS is still somewhat teething in some respects. There's still a few armies with a lot of old materials flying around and some with very small model ranges. AoS is growing and doing really well and I hope in a few years it gets its own big cross overs like 40K and its own TV series.*heck I'd love with with Brian Blessed voicing Gotrek*

Am I the only person that has wanted this for years?
I used to try and make sets based on 40k.
Drop Pod: 2 white 3 colorless, 0/5. When Drop Pod enters the battlefield put 5 1/1 Colorless Astartes tokens onto the battlefield under your control.

Jerram wrote:
Hmm, release at least says not standard legal, hopefully that stretches out to a few other metas. While I think it may be cool to play a game of commander where everyone has a 40k deck. I really don't want to see 40k cards mixed in a normal game of commander.

exactly. I would prefer to see a new unique card game focused on the lore and universe of 40K with mechanics similar to MTG.
I play commander regularly, and no one ever runs cards from just one set unless it is a pre-con deck.

I don't want to see smatterings of sci-fi in MTG either.

Going to be interesting to discover where they are going with this.

MTG has always had at least a few smatterings of sci-fi in it though. The Phyrexians for example make a strong a case, as does everything involving the Thran and Urza.

Wait. You mean they're gonna make 40k a pay-to-win game?

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:

Jerram wrote:
Hmm, release at least says not standard legal, hopefully that stretches out to a few other metas. While I think it may be cool to play a game of commander where everyone has a 40k deck. I really don't want to see 40k cards mixed in a normal game of commander.

exactly. I would prefer to see a new unique card game focused on the lore and universe of 40K with mechanics similar to MTG.
I play commander regularly, and no one ever runs cards from just one set unless it is a pre-con deck.

I don't want to see smatterings of sci-fi in MTG either.

Going to be interesting to discover where they are going with this.

As it’s own thing, totally cool. I often thought it would be a good match for a once a year or so set for other IP.

But I really don’t want any 40k in magic games, the original reason I play magic was being sick of 40k at the time. It will probably all be space marines as well if commander decks with all themed cards.

So, Orks = green (obviously!), Eldar = blue, Tau = white, Chaos = black and Imperium = red.

Tyranids = purple?!

I agree on some points but I think that is oversimplifying a bit. (Standard disclaimer; obviously this all is very IMO.)

Imperium is solidly white/black in theme, with some portions deviating from that. Marines would lean white/red for example.

Orks are green/red all the way. They fit that archetype perfectly.

Chaos you are probably looking at a red/black base, but different gods would deviate. Nurgle, in particular, is extremely green/black. Tzeentch rocking the red/blue, Slaanesh blue/black, Khorne heavy red some black. Chaos as a whole is basically anti-white.

Eldar are very blue, but they should be splashing in other colors based on the type of eldar. Craftworld feel more blue/white to me, DEldar blue/black.

Tau are extremely white in theme, and Necrons are extremely black. The only two armies I could see being appropriately mono-color.

Tyranids are definitely green, probably tri-color for green/red/back. GSC are more of a green/black/blue.

I was actually thinking similar, just wanted to get the purple mana joke in! Imperial guard actually feel like a goblin deck; hordes of expendable 1/1s backed up with some ridiculous artillery.

Necrons and Tau I can both see as having heavy colourless artefact aspects to them.


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Oh and Commissars obviously require you to sacrifice a creature in order to use their abilities!

Well, damn me. I might actually be buying the first MtG cards in years.

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, damn me. I might actually be buying the first MtG cards in years.

Where’s that LotR “and so it begins” gif...

There's just no way 40k and LotR can co-exist in the same overarching setting, be it with each other or things like Urza's Saga or Mirrodin.

I guess we're back to Garfield's original idea - that every MtG set be it's own, separate thing, and visual and narrative continuity be damned.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
There's just no way 40k and LotR can co-exist in the same overarching setting, be it with each other or things like Urza's Saga or Mirrodin.

I guess we're back to Garfield's original idea - that every MtG set be it's own, separate thing, and visual and narrative continuity be damned.

Could simply be a straight port of the MTG rules, with the intention that whilst one could have Guilliman vs Nazgul, each set is intended to be its own thing - simple and cost effective way to cross pollinate between properties.

Perhaps.

I do wonder if GW and Tolkien's estate are fine with that though. Historically, both have been fiercely protective of their respective IPs and I'm not sure if "tap Witch King to deal three damage to that Daemonette over there" is how they want them to be presented. Cross overs are rare for a reason.

And the MTGing of 40K is complete lol, i mean the resource mechanic/strat combo damage boosts moved the miniature game in that direction so this crossover really isn't a surprise.

I could see the nid/grot decks mirror the squirrel deck, after a few turns there would be no stopping the explosion in numbers.

The best part about this is all the people claiming stratagems are "MtG" can finally see first hand how wrong they are.


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 Jadenim wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, damn me. I might actually be buying the first MtG cards in years.

Where’s that LotR “and so it begins” gif...

Eh, the main reason I stopped was because I had to cull some hobbies when my daughter was born. Leaving your wive alone at home with a newborn five times a week would have been a huge a Erebus move from my side.
I have always loved the game, though I wasn't a huge fan of some of the newer blocks. MtG solely bit the bucket because something had to go and I still had overlapping hobbies with everyone playing MtG. Dropping another hobby would also have meant dropping friends.

That said, I also quit WH40k at roughly the same time


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 Lord Damocles wrote:
40K card games haven't been good since the original Combat Cards.
Change my mind.

https://munchkin.game/products/games/munchkin-warhammer-40000/

 Jidmah wrote:
The best part about this is all the people claiming stratagems are "MtG" can finally see first hand how wrong they are.

Actually just the opposite it proves the point-
strats linked to resource management to boost damage IS what magic does it just uses mana+spells to boost creatures

You just spend X CP to use Y stratagem to boost damage for Z weapon instead of spending X lands to use Y spell to boost Z creatures damage potential.

Different words, same game effects.

Yes, using nitro in a racecar is also exactly like MTG.

 aphyon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The best part about this is all the people claiming stratagems are "MtG" can finally see first hand how wrong they are.

Actually just the opposite it proves the point-
strats linked to resource management to boost damage IS what magic does it just uses mana+spells to boost creatures

You just spend X CP to use Y stratagem to boost damage for Z weapon instead of spending X lands to use Y spell to boost Z creatures damage potential.

Different words, same game effects.

Nope. Not going into detail (again), but the whole argument only exists because you are abstracting both games to a point where neither is recognizable anymore.

If 40k and MtG are the same, 40k and backgammon are the same, because you are using dice to determine how far circular game pieces move and whether they take out other circular game pieces.

There are many valid points to be made about why the CP/stratagem system is bad, none of them have anything to do with MtG.
Comparing stratagems to MtG is nothing but a logical fallacy (appeal to emotion fallacy/genetic fallacy) - many people in the 40k community hate MtG and so you are trying to justify your hate for stratagems by connecting the two.

Whenever anyone claims "9tH EditIOn haS BEComE MTg!!!11" it can safely be read as "I have no idea what I'm talking about".

Whenever anyone claims "9tH EditIOn haS BEComE MTg!!!11" it can safely be read as "I have no idea what I'm talking about".

And i can safely assume you have no idea about my experience with it, since i have played with the (cp/stratagem) system myself and i also play with people who are big MTG and 40K players who can be honest enough to admit that while not exactly the same they can see similarities and influence that moved 40K away from a TT WARgame and into a resource management warGAME.

My original point was-40K/MTG crossover? not a surprise since they appeared to be inching closer together now for the past few years.

So any game featuring resource management is MTG?

 aphyon wrote:

Whenever anyone claims "9tH EditIOn haS BEComE MTg!!!11" it can safely be read as "I have no idea what I'm talking about".

And i can safely assume you have no idea about my experience with it, since i have played with the (cp/stratagem) system myself and i also play with people who are big MTG and 40K players who can be honest enough to admit that while not exactly the same they can see similarities and influence that moved 40K away from a TT WARgame and into a resource management warGAME.

You admitting that you don't actually know anything about MtG yourself proves my hypothesis right, doesn't it?

IMO 40k is just moving towards being a modern board game rather than the wargame or miniature based RPG that it was in the past. Almost all of the better ones released in the last years uses cards and resource management, mostly because it's a great mechanism to increase depth without increasing complexity by too much if done right.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So any game featuring resource management is MTG?

Some people boil things down to very simple components and then compare them at that simplistic end. The problem is that they often don't realise that the simplistic angle they view things at are also biased based on how they've simplified it. It's similar to the whole "there's only 5 stories in the world" or "any computer game with experience is an RPG"

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So any game featuring resource management is MTG?

Well maybe if you started a game of Magic with 10-12 mana, which is the frontload issue of strats in that it's not really managing a resource just unloading ASAP to leafblow enough that the other player can't do it back, although maybe the latest oppsie spell printed (and promptly banned) could simulate CP blowouts

I suspect that this was in the pipeline before the Walking Dead salt but it'll sell and undoubtedly will have the odd "must have" for EDH, jokes on them mind I've got a printer

 Jidmah wrote:

 aphyon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The best part about this is all the people claiming stratagems are "MtG" can finally see first hand how wrong they are.

Actually just the opposite it proves the point-
strats linked to resource management to boost damage IS what magic does it just uses mana+spells to boost creatures

You just spend X CP to use Y stratagem to boost damage for Z weapon instead of spending X lands to use Y spell to boost Z creatures damage potential.

Different words, same game effects.

Nope. Not going into detail (again), but the whole argument only exists because you are abstracting both games to a point where neither is recognizable anymore.

If 40k and MtG are the same, 40k and backgammon are the same, because you are using dice to determine how far circular game pieces move and whether they take out other circular game pieces.

There are many valid points to be made about why the CP/stratagem system is bad, none of them have anything to do with MtG.
Comparing stratagems to MtG is nothing but a logical fallacy (appeal to emotion fallacy/genetic fallacy) - many people in the 40k community hate MtG and so you are trying to justify your hate for stratagems by connecting the two.

Whenever anyone claims "9tH EditIOn haS BEComE MTg!!!11" it can safely be read as "I have no idea what I'm talking about".

God damn. You finally put to words what my brain could not. Thank you.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
There's just no way 40k and LotR can co-exist in the same overarching setting, be it with each other or things like Urza's Saga or Mirrodin.

I guess we're back to Garfield's original idea - that every MtG set be it's own, separate thing, and visual and narrative continuity be damned.

The 'crossover sets' aren't part of the normal MTG cannon--that still exists and the majority of sets will still be set in the MTG multiverse.


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 Jidmah wrote:

 aphyon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The best part about this is all the people claiming stratagems are "MtG" can finally see first hand how wrong they are.

Actually just the opposite it proves the point-
strats linked to resource management to boost damage IS what magic does it just uses mana+spells to boost creatures

You just spend X CP to use Y stratagem to boost damage for Z weapon instead of spending X lands to use Y spell to boost Z creatures damage potential.

Different words, same game effects.

Nope. Not going into detail (again), but the whole argument only exists because you are abstracting both games to a point where neither is recognizable anymore.

If 40k and MtG are the same, 40k and backgammon are the same, because you are using dice to determine how far circular game pieces move and whether they take out other circular game pieces.

There are many valid points to be made about why the CP/stratagem system is bad, none of them have anything to do with MtG.
Comparing stratagems to MtG is nothing but a logical fallacy (appeal to emotion fallacy/genetic fallacy) - many people in the 40k community hate MtG and so you are trying to justify your hate for stratagems by connecting the two.

Whenever anyone claims "9tH EditIOn haS BEComE MTg!!!11" it can safely be read as "I have no idea what I'm talking about".

Precisely.