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I got 4 Villages on separate accounts. 2 of them have EB Nubble. Not doing rapid delivery unless I decide to throw in more Core sets and/or any friends decide to piggyback on it, then I might RD the one pledge with all the addons.

Rapid delivery is an EXTRA cost per pledge, it mounts up rapidly.

You still have to wait for the stretchgoals. Archon are fast though they give their pledges a realistic window and fulfil ahead of schedule, the opposite of most backers experiences. They are getting good and fast at getting tools made and production done.

I wont be getting any repid deliverypartly due to cost and parlty because we should have this by years end at this rate.

D&L2 campaign was run from 25th August to 8th September 2020, with fulfilment occurring just before D&L3 campaign started, less than nine months from monies collected to full delivery. I must say I was impressed by that. And by this time a large percentage of the backers had their D&L pledges in their hands a month prior to full fulfilment.

This does exclude the odd case of missing or wrong post, failed deliveries etc, which will likely persist for a month or two but should not be considered a normal outcome.

Your call if you want to pay extra to get half your pledge in three months for extra charge, or wait for all of it in nine. I for one am happy to wait.

Also this campaign was simpler, three dragon equiv, and most of the legwork for the models is done already. I am going to punt a wild guess here and say we should be getting out stuff by Christmas., and of course delayed in Christmas shipping. Ho ho ho.

Dunno, there's a lot of minis that are just sketches right now, sculpting could bottleneck this project, especially if the emphasis on minis really was a last minute call.

I backed, but only for a few rapid delivery items. I prefer kickstarters for things that will be with me in a few months, that way I'll probably still want them when they arrive!

There's a fair chance I'll back their next kickstater for some of the things that were in this one for that reason though...

Delivery of this won’t be until next year, so I’ve decided to wait until it’s closer to ship time to put in for what I want (did similar for Rampart, when I was getting involved in D&L 1).

I am hoping that D&L 4 has a strong sci-fi element. I’ve got plenty of D&D dungeon tiles, need me some space boards for Star Wars and Star Trek style games.

I've been thinking about sci-fi and it seems to me it's a lot harder to mix and match themes than it is in fantasy. Like why would there be a Fallout Vault room in a Hadley's Hope core set. So hopefully we either get a coherent theme with possibly specialized rooms that all fit the same theme, or more different core sets with the assumption you'll probably just spam one of them. As it stands with Vault being a room it's not financially feasible to make a full sized vault.

> Does anyone know if there is a late pledge option?

Sign up to be notified! : https://www.dungeonsandlasers.com/

> Rapid delivery is an EXTRA cost per pledge, it mounts up rapidly.

Yep. RD and shipping went up. I'd only pick up RD if I were "catching up" with the older stuff. You get so much stuff with D&L, I found it useful to start painting the RD'ed stuff so I wasn't overwhelmed in the final delivery!
fwiw, RD also puts you at the head of the queue.

> - Make a boardgame with awesome miniatures

*Archon* can't make a decent game. They've basically copied IP from other franchises, and also had problems with their Chinese printer. Maybe if they had an experienced project manager for games and an actual game designer (rather than a plagiarizer), they could enter boardgames. But why? The boardgame market is even more competitive with KS, boardgamers do not want un-assembled mini's, and budget miniature collectors will get fewer mini's. By not spending budget and resources on a boardgame, they can provide more mini's.

> > Take a look at what other companies with a better business model are making a mint on.

Well, 1.4 EU is a pretty good haul, (although fantasy pulls in more money than SF so I don't expect Archon to make as much in their SF KS). D&L3 made more money than Blacklist Game's 200+ miniatures games: Fantasy Series 2 ($1.3M) which had a miniatures skirmish game attached, and Fantasy Series 1 ($1.1M) which had a board game add-on, and Altar Quest boardgame ($620K). CMON pulled in $3.3M in their last Zombicide KS and $3.8M in their Massive Darkness 2 KS, but I think BLG vs. Archon is a better comparison. Also, boardgame plastic doesn't have the detail that HIPS or whatever plastic Archon is using. Archon might have to produce their games in China if they really wanted to copy miniature boardgame companies.

> Retool the molds or all their stretchgoals into useful sets that they can retail sell.

Well, they at least had the fantasy SG's and SF SG's on different sprues for their 2nd edition. Myself, I don't like how the doors are sold, and think "useful sets" would be a better idea. Mantic does that with their Terrain Crates (even if the plastic isn't as good!) As for retail... Monolith was losing money on their Conan boardgame when they tried retail. A major problem with KS is that it gives no support for creators to have distributor and retail support. The problem with retail is that a distributor is under no obligation to carry your product and, even then, expects a deep discount that may make retail less profitable than direct sales.No t saying that Archon shouldn't do retail, especially if they can keep their boxes from being damaged. During this KS, you couldn't get sf D&L terrain (I don't remember it being available in the PM), so that leaves a webstore and retail?

> I've been thinking about sci-fi and it seems to me it's a lot harder to mix and match themes than it is in fantasy.

Yeah. That was a common reaction to the "I want SF terrain" common back in D&L2. Rampart's also not compatible with D&L (although obviously, you can use different terrain on a battle board), and I even heard that the D&L terrain wasn't somehow compatible with WH40K rules or terrain?? No idea -- not much of a sf gamer, anyway.

With all that said, they certainly could hire some labor or use interns to cut sprues all day...

I could use an intern to clip my D&L sprues all day. I eyeball a Village pledge at 60 sprues minimum and I got 4. In D&L2 I just got 60 sprues of stretch goals and I'm not half done. Half done just clipping.

Is Archon still printing stuff in China?

I know people griped about the quality of the cardboard for Chronicle X, and the stretch goals had an assortment of reprinted stuff that was way more sturdy. I can't recall where it was printed though.

I wonder if they'll offer up any Wolfenstein sprues individually once that ships. I'd love some but have no space or desire to have another board game sit on my shelf.

I can't knock the quality of their recent plastics either. They've really been stepping up the quality since they first started casting their own.

I'm with the rest of you guys on the idea of having them package up similar sets of pieces for retail. I have no idea how complex it would be for them to recut the sprues though.

Archon print all the plastic in house. They might print cardboard stuff in China (that could have been why chronicle-x was delayed?).

Archon will bring out chronoshards this year which might see a load of sci-fi terrain.

They originally said they were going to do four armies straight to retail, but they now have 6 armies close to ready concept wise.

As for themes of sci-fi terrain fitting together - I just got a sci-fi core and three vaults for this reason. My thinking was I could have a run down wing, and a new science wing. But a load of the rooms fit with the core set (i.e. the engine room). My issue with them is that these rooms should just be scatter in them instead of different walls, so I would much rather extra core sets with no rooms.

When chronoshards comes out it'll be interesting what terrain they make - some hab block like buildings would be nice, or an expandable space port. But the dungeon style might not be the best fit...

If they have sense they will ditch China completely. It is no longer the sure option. There a\re alternate sources for cheap paper stocks for mass printing. Russia for one, and they could just take it to a Polish company and get a development grant in Poland to do so.

Infernal Phoenix won the vote. Survey link has gone out to backers complete for an added Lich mini.

For new themes I suggested natural caves and hell dimension (think Diablo 1, bone/spike/blood tunnels)

I really hope that the phoenix can be built without the armour, if it's fixed on, that's going to be a lot of work to remove in a nice way.

You wont be able to remove the armour if not separate.
A lot of people voted for unarmoured Infernal.
I think they need a new poll for armoured vs unarmoured Infernal if they cant give seperate armour panels.

Meanwhile I did my survey and in the hint box at the bottom copy pasted my comments from page 10 and reworded them slightly for diction as a message to Archon rather than to the thread.

Fountain sculpt

Official "no" on optional armour I'm afraid. Also on buying extra sewer walls.

Well I jumped in at the last minute for the minis. I really have no need for the terrain as I have a bunch and I really don't need another system.

But I could use a nice set of cheap townsfolk. I have some to 3d print but if the price is right i still prefer plastics as it's less of a time sink for me.

I did tell them in my survey, as I know several of you that were here for the terrain were complaining about this, to sperate out minis and terrain to separate kickstarters. Though considering this was their most successful D&L campaign by leaps and bounds they may not want to as the people who want to crazy good deal for minis have to get some of the terrain so maybe they'll buy lots more? is probably the midset.

Guess it will depend on the survey results around why people backed.

 Orlanth wrote:
You wont be able to remove the armour if not separate.
A lot of people voted for unarmoured Infernal.
I think they need a new poll for armoured vs unarmoured Infernal if they cant give seperate armour panels.

Meanwhile I did my survey and in the hint box at the bottom copy pasted my comments from page 10 and reworded them slightly for diction as a message to Archon rather than to the thread.

Ah well. If we get an armored version it can go on eBay I suppose.

I am glad you sent them your thoughts. I agree with you and you worded it better than I can.

My wife and I did try to let them know our thoughts in the free text blocks. Whether it gets through to the rightbpeople and makes any difference remains to be seen.

We asked for rural buildings with thatch roofs and waterfront buildings, docks, piers ( Laketown) in the future.

Docks seem popular, but they will come with integrated water and I'm not interested in buying square feet of that to make it work.

i'm more interested in the minis & scatter than the rooms

the question is do I go for the better value but less useful to me fantasy core or the less good but probably more useful (but not much) streets

You mean trading your one Core for two more packs of Streets? Get a Core and sell it?

more I could use the streets dioramas and displays, but they're just not such good value as the fantasy core set in terms of what you get

Fantasy core has almost as much floor space as the street set and would be fine for displays plus you get a load of walls as well. That said 2 street sets = 1 Core so double the content. Given the choice the core is more versatile.

I think I'm going to get the lava caverns or fantasy core. Lava in transparent (not sure which colors) is something that's onerous to do with 3d printing so I could get that and then maybe find a use for it. I'm thinking blue with a white drybrush would make for a nice ice cave.

Or I can get the core and sell it as it seams to be the best value and thus would be easiest to move.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Docks seem popular, but they will come with integrated water and I'm not interested in buying square feet of that to make it work.

Yeah, if they do that then it will likely not be for us as well.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I think I'm going to get the lava caverns or fantasy core. Lava in transparent (not sure which colors) is something that's onerous to do with 3d printing so I could get that and then maybe find a use for it. I'm thinking blue with a white drybrush would make for a nice ice cave.

Or I can get the core and sell it as it seams to be the best value and thus would be easiest to move.

Sewers and Lava Caves in kickstarter exclusive colours are likely to give the best resale value if you sit on them until they're no longer available.


So what's everyone here intending to use the terrain for, other than D&D? I'm not a big fan of dungeon crawlers but I'm tempted to do a slight Cursed City rewrite to use all the D&L 3 assets, not like there's any more official material coming.

My pledge so far seems to be

2x Fantasy Core
2x Sewers
5x Dwarven Mine
3x "Ice" Cave
2x Lava Cave
2x Torture Chamber

Possibly some more sets of DL1 stretch goals as they have all the neat dungeon decor like levers and a truckload of wall plug torches.

Buildings - maybe.

If I can figure out what looks best AND decide if it is 'worth it' - nebulous, I know, but there it is...

I'm in with a pledge to get me access to the PM...

I will be in for three sets only, I might do two orders of one/two sets, it all depends on whether I want a second phoenix. If its armoured it will likely be a giveaway.

Each set will have a sewers, dont know what rooms I will buy.

Most likely:

1x Green lava - Slime room seems to me the most useful of the four.
Yellow - No need for this.
Blue - The ice would need sharpening to work.
Red - I admit this would be useful but to make a proper lava cavern you will need a lot of sets. Go big or go home. I will go home.

2-3x Stone Tower - To act as alt dungeon core set tiles. They fit in well with each other.

0-1x Royal Castle - Generally less useful.

1x Wooden Cottage - Mostly for the doorways and windowless walls which will serve as alt Mine walls. The windows are less useful, I might try to kitbash those and some will have rock molded on to serve as more mine walls
The floor tiles are also useful for wooden decking in dungeon rooms, which happens quite a bit.

1x Roof set.others - For kitbashes. A lot of other pieces might end up kitbash fuel. I would not be surprused if I bidgeted one of each Woodhaven room set except streets for kitbashing. Though for the more useful Stone Tower set any kitbash materials will come out of the allocation of 2-3 sets.
More on Kitbashes below.

0x City Streets - I will likely not be buying this product unless I am certain I have room slots to spare It would be Ok for a quad but not for its intended purpose of streets. Its not that they are bad quality, they are OK, but at some point there will be a transition end. I would rather just put my models on a playmat.

Any space remaining goes into extra Dwarven Mines as that is the one room type that has no practical upper limit on usability. Frankly they should do a mine/cavern core set.


Kitbashing houses.
I will be having roofs to kitbash but that will be for more sturdy roofs to add to 3d printed buildings.

If I make any Woodhaven buildings, which is unlikely they will be permanently glued builds with the 'legoness' covered up and filed away and triangular section vertical runners between the tiles. I dont need modular buildings. I just 3d print or build more. Most buildings are inherently modular. So long as a building is clearly marked as a fortification or not and it is clear how affluent it is and I c0ver all the bases from hovels to castle keeps then what a building is used for can be defined by the decor. Woodhaven might be useful in building specific exceptions, but I am low on need of those. If I kitbash I will be retaining modularity of the interior. Gluing the tiles together and using discrete pins rather than clips to mount the storeys, but leaving room for interior walls to be added via D&L connections. However I am just as likely to use Woodhaven walls as modular interiors for existing Zvezda or 3d printed buildings, in particular large castle keeps and mills.

Its early stages still. If it is not practical I will simply not have any Woodhaven bar the Stone Tower and one Wooden Cottage and maybe one Royal Fortress set as mix ins for dungeon core.

At this stage I have wiggle room on rooms. I am only buying three villages for triple Townsfolk, triple stretchgoals and triple sewers. I will drytest a sewer build with other tiles using Sf tiles as complete water ones. If I can manage with only two sewers I might cut down to two village.. Likely I will not do this, but it remains a possibility, if 2021 continues to deteriorate or if other options are better I might reduce my spend.

I'm going for a combination of roofs and Tudor/Wooden Cottage style for my village pledge. I'm still working on the exact details to put together a few buildings. I mostly see them as a bonus to the minis and particularly the scatter terrain that I really want.