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 Monkeysloth wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:

Against that, is time running out for hobby injection moulding? You return of investment is going to have to be fast enough to cash in pre widespread use of 3D printing. If you can diversify outside of toys using plastic that might work, but otherwise the slow growth approach of companies in the past might not work if the future heralds a likely big change.

When someone comes up with a 3D printer that costs the same as an inkjet printer and works in HIPS with resin-printer quality, the days of injection moulded plastic will be numbered... But that printer doesn't exist yet, and is not even possible with the currently available technology.

And not also be a toxic mess like resin that I'm really surprised doesn't have some regulation over disposal because you're not supposed to throw anything not cured away as it can leak into ground water when in a dump. The current stuff is no where near safe enough for a lot of people to have in their homes.

I agree. I can't believe how cavalier I've seen some people acting about resin curing waste water and the fumes from resin etc. I hate that it isn't more highly regulated.

 Talking Banana wrote:

Szymon_Archon wrote:
What kind of sci-fi are we talking about? There are tons of different genres. Personally, I'm a massive fan of the Cyberpunk setting.

I respect your preference, but Cyberpunk doesn't interest me that much. A sci-fi book without aliens is fine, but when it comes to miniatures, I'm not really into settings that consist exclusively of various human factions. I've got a strong preference for alien races, and I pretty much agree with Green Scorpion's take: I prefer aliens that are more than just humanoids with different heads. Basically I'm thinking Wayne Barlowe aliens, with physiognomies that are different because the creator thought carefully about the different environmental conditions they would have developed in and how their anatomies would have adapted and evolved.

The bottom line, though, is the rule of cool. If there's a miniature game with non-humanoid aliens but the alien designs just aren't that inspired, I won't be buying it. The designs have to be excellent and part of a captivating world that's developed enough to intrigue, but not so developed that it stifles players from shaping their own stories.

Perhaps I prefer my sci-fi with a bit of horror, too. It's ancient history now, and it wasn't particularly successful, but I thought the Strain concept and designs for Sedition Wars were fantastic. Likewise, years ago I was captivated by the Dead Space and Dead Space 2 video games, from the creature designs to the faux Scientology lore of the creepy Unitologists. That was some fantastic world-building.

I'll also give a shout out to the sci-fi setup of Maelstrom's Edge: it doesn't feel like they've been able to fully capitalize on it for whatever reason, but ME has the closest analogy I can think of to global warming in gaming sci-fi. Every year the idea of billions of desperate people trying to flee doomed planets, and all the conflicts that generates, gets more and more relevant to the way climate change is upending our world and turning more and more people into climate refugees.

Some excellent points that I think echo a lot of folks views from what I read on various blogs, Dakka Dakka and the lead adventure forum.

I think Maelstrom’s Edge is an excellent setting which offers a lot of possible factions (for various different minis) and yet lends a sense of urgency toothed conflict. The artwork aesthetics are broadly appealing in a nicely toned down look that works in numerous other settings and the quality of the figures is decent. The question is, why does it not do better financially?

The same could be said for Mantic‘s sci-fi setting. But does it dominate the business over the fantasy side the same way 40k dominates over fantasy over at Games Workshop?

The folks over at Dwarven Forge talk a lot about the issue of designing sci-fi terrain is that so much of sci-fi is very specific in its aesthetics, unlike medieval fantasy which is much more forgiving.

I never thought of Battle Systems Core Space as a cyberpunk setting until I heard the designers talk about their view in it being originally very much a cyberpunk setting in their design process. At first, as much as I loved the aesthetics of Core Space, the overall setting was not one I loved. I disliked the corrupt corporate law enforcement and the lack of a visibly organized governmental military presence (ala Colonial Marines of the Alien franchise). It focuses so much on Firefly style petty criminals. However it has definitely grown on me and I love it now. So much so my love of it convinced me to back the Maladrum fantasy game KS from Battle Systems (admittedly as a late backer) because Colin at Core Space said it was an in-Universe evolution of Core Space and that there would be more overtly obvious crossover. So brand loyalty so to speak helped this customer cross over to both lines, sci-fi and fantasy.

My point of all this is that if Archon wants to have a largely successful sci-fi product one option is to develop a game and setting for that game. But for it to work it, in my opinion, need a long term committed plan to worldbuilding for that game setting. It needs to be something cool, broadly appealing to numerous customers, with room for a lot of flavors of factions (and minis).

Wargames Atlantic has been doing this with Deathfields and while I dislike the setting many others seem to love it. And it creates a potential to make minis that not only fit that setting but work well as GW 40k proxies… a lucrative niche.

Considering the discussion about resin handling and how the time for resin in tabletop should have an end in the future: Shouldn’t production of model sprues for other companies be a lucrative business for the future? I’ve heard some gossip on Mantic going for such production partnerships recently and increasing their quality by this. When I consider other wargames publishers, like f.e. TTCombat, who provide a nice games like DFC/DZC or Carnevalle, but only offer new releases in resin, which together with bad supply chains (since brexit it is a nightmare to get stuff shipped) and poor QM leads to people turning away from the product. I really wish the guys over at TTC would start a business partnership with you guys. Especially as, at least in my bubble, new Archon Products are highly anticipated and people follow news which is basically free advertising as people are involved with the brand.

Also, do we have a rough estimate for the giants ruins terrain from one of the recent kickstarters? I really look forward for the kit

from a business point of view you want a good part of your sales to be your own stuff and not someone else
same way as Renedra while doing a lot of production for other companies, they still have their own dedicated line (terrain and bases)

yet, don't know how useful a Joint Venture between Archon and Mantic would be


for the IP, generic fantasy human style is much more forgiving than anything else and the market is bigger as also historicals would use it to a point while almost all fantasy settings have the same human style

yet there is not a lot of Dwarf, Elves or Orc terrain/buildings, for the same reason there is less SciFi stuff, it would be less generic and often only fit one setting/IP

 kodos wrote:
from a business point of view you want a good part of your sales to be your own stuff and not someone else
same way as Renedra while doing a lot of production for other companies, they still have their own dedicated line (terrain and bases)

yet, don't know how useful a Joint Venture between Archon and Mantic would be

I'm pretty certain Renedra sell far more Perry stuff than their own.

Also, don't Archon already do production for Mantic?

 Dawnbringer wrote:


Also, don't Archon already do production for Mantic?

Yep. I think it was mentioned that they do about 25% of they production for other companies.

The points of Talking Banana and Grumpy Gnome about settings are really great and expand a bit on what I was referring to.

Many settings have explored the existence of aliens that are close to humans in aspect, but there are also some that have delved into more diversified species, including some based on existing animals/plants and some that are completely innovative.

To expand a bit more on my own post in the previous page of this thread, I will be using some examples from things that I have written related with a large scale sci-fi settings, but that are similar to many other settings in existence.
In my case I used a lot of fantasy settings as inspiration so you will see lots of things that would be normal on a fantasy setting.

Examples from my Cornelivs Maximvs series
- Human Factions - Imperials, Barbarians, Rebels. Different looks, weapons and equipment but essentially representable by a variety of human miniatures in existence.
- Human like Factions (races that are close to humans in looks) - Elders, Elves (Dark, Grey and regular), Dwarves, Fauns, Centaurs, Ogres. Slightly more variety of bodies compared to humans, but overall you can identify yourself with them to some degree.
- Anthropomorphized Factions - Scrovens (sentient potatoes that look like orcs from fantasy settings, my major inspiration was battle for wesnoth artwork), Treporers (giant moles that obviously live underground), Rocervars (rock based aliens like Thing from the fantastic 4), Anvestits (race based on amphibious creatures), Gastevs (wasp like creatures), Criostarpels (bipedal wolf like creatures). Still bear some resemblance to humans possessing some form of usable hands and legs.
- Non-Anthropomorphized Factions - Nibrevons (insectoid creatures like starship troopers or tyranids), Arbensis (closest thing would be ents but this race is more varied in looks resembling trees, bushes and other plants), Lagaxits (lizard like group of species that contains a wild variety of different shapes and functions), Amotgets (essentially shapeshifters whose original shape is unknown). Cannot be represent by humanoid creatures and possess a set weapons and wargear that are extremely different from the typical things you would use with your hands or similar body parts.

One of the best examples of alien world, species and culture building that is begging for miniatures and perhaps a game system… the Birrin.

https://chronicles-of-chriirah.fandom.com/wiki/Birrin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRgw1fY7s5U

But that would be an ambitious gamble in hopes that it would have a broad enough appeal to be financially successful. That is the real trick, catching a big share of the hobby community.

Perhaps the more humanoid aliens as North Star have done for Stargrave would sell better.

Never heard of it. As an equally obscure but developed setting, Larry Niven's Known Space (Ringworld et al.)

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Never heard of it. As an equally obscure but developed setting, Larry Niven's Known Space (Ringworld et al.)

That woud be fun - also highly recommend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance%E2%80%93Union_universe / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chanur_novels by C. J. Cherryh for great world building and including a very very skaven race in space (written about the same time as Skaven first appeared in Warhammer)

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:
in pre widespread use of 3D printing.

Why would they need to worry about the 3D printing? Anyone interested in hard plastic minis would want hard plastic minis instead resin they dislike (insert here variety of reasons).

I agree with Shadow Walker. For quite awhile folks have talked about 3d printing changing everything but I do not think the technology can fully replace HIPs any more than cast resin did.

It has replaced at least half the sales in both the clubs I attend. Around a quarter of the members now have printers of various types and are using it for various things, as well as printing for others at cost (materials, % machine, electricity).

Turns out my ninja shopper at Salute even got a spin on the "wheel of loot" and won me a Bulbo.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:
in pre widespread use of 3D printing.

Why would they need to worry about the 3D printing? Anyone interested in hard plastic minis would want hard plastic minis instead resin they dislike (insert here variety of reasons).

I agree with Shadow Walker. For quite awhile folks have talked about 3d printing changing everything but I do not think the technology can fully replace HIPs any more than cast resin did.

It has replaced at least half the sales in both the clubs I attend. Around a quarter of the members now have printers of various types and are using it for various things, as well as printing for others at cost (materials, % machine, electricity).

No offence but unless there is a data for world wide change from HIPS into resin (I bet there is none) then it means only that some minority is using it for some niche gaming.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:
in pre widespread use of 3D printing.

Why would they need to worry about the 3D printing? Anyone interested in hard plastic minis would want hard plastic minis instead resin they dislike (insert here variety of reasons).

I agree with Shadow Walker. For quite awhile folks have talked about 3d printing changing everything but I do not think the technology can fully replace HIPs any more than cast resin did.

It has replaced at least half the sales in both the clubs I attend. Around a quarter of the members now have printers of various types and are using it for various things, as well as printing for others at cost (materials, % machine, electricity).

Hard Plastic HIPS miniatures are very niche, but I don't think it's going anywhere any time soon unless someone develops a revolutionary solution. The thing with our miniatures is that they're cheaper but also safer than 3D miniatures. There's obviously also the fact that they're a lot more durable while also being detailed. If they're just for a display and aren't actively being used, the Resin is probably fine (look at some of Creature Caster's sculpts!), but for any kind of Wargame or TTRPG, HIPS is honestly the way to go. I recently did multiple drop tests on one of our miniatures and I can safely say that it's completely fine. Even if it wasn't it's still easy to put back together thanks to plastic glue.

Szymon_Archon wrote:

Hard Plastic HIPS miniatures are very niche

GW is using it almost for all their minis, and they are the biggest fish, so I would not call it a niche Also there is a reason that Mantic, WGA, Fireforge, Northstar, Wyrd etc. do the same. It is resin and metal that are now niche materials even if in the past they were the most popular.

GW almost has a monopoly with how much market share they have, it's like comparing Steam to the Epic Games Store or GOG. HIPS minis for TTRPGs are very much a niche. Even if there are some companies that use HIPS minis, there's a huge barrier to entry, and most companies opt for other materials. WizKids still doesn't use HIPS very often, because it's way above their level of expertise. They have their sprues made in China for their Frameworks line, but they don't look particularly great because they're not fully aware of the entire production process, nor how to make it more efficient.

Szymon_Archon wrote:
GW almost has a monopoly with how much market share they have, it's like comparing Steam to the Epic Games Store or GOG. HIPS minis for TTRPGs are very much a niche. Even if there are some companies that use HIPS minis, there's a huge barrier to entry, and most companies opt for other materials. WizKids still doesn't use HIPS very often, because it's way above their level of expertise. They have their sprues made in China for their Frameworks line, but they don't look particularly great because they're not fully aware of the entire production process, nor how to make it more efficient.

I agree that smaller companies have harder with HIPS than GW but they can always contact Archon . What I meant is that majority of gaming is HIPS, and it will not change with the introduction of resin printers. Majority of people prefer HIPS, and I cannot see them turning en masse to resin just because printers are getting better and cheaper. All the stories about 3D printing changing the market we hear since years are just that, stories.

They should buy and bring back AT-43. I loved that setting.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

Szymon_Archon wrote:
GW almost has a monopoly with how much market share they have, it's like comparing Steam to the Epic Games Store or GOG. HIPS minis for TTRPGs are very much a niche. Even if there are some companies that use HIPS minis, there's a huge barrier to entry, and most companies opt for other materials. WizKids still doesn't use HIPS very often, because it's way above their level of expertise. They have their sprues made in China for their Frameworks line, but they don't look particularly great because they're not fully aware of the entire production process, nor how to make it more efficient.

I agree that smaller companies have harder with HIPS than GW but they can always contact Archon . What I meant is that majority of gaming is HIPS, and it will not change with the introduction of resin printers. Majority of people prefer HIPS, and I cannot see them turning en masse to resin just because printers are getting better and cheaper. All the stories about 3D printing changing the market we hear since years are just that, stories.

I think you're forgetting that Wargaming is a very niche hobby, at least in comparison to board games or card games :p

Szymon_Archon wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

Szymon_Archon wrote:
GW almost has a monopoly with how much market share they have, it's like comparing Steam to the Epic Games Store or GOG. HIPS minis for TTRPGs are very much a niche. Even if there are some companies that use HIPS minis, there's a huge barrier to entry, and most companies opt for other materials. WizKids still doesn't use HIPS very often, because it's way above their level of expertise. They have their sprues made in China for their Frameworks line, but they don't look particularly great because they're not fully aware of the entire production process, nor how to make it more efficient.

I agree that smaller companies have harder with HIPS than GW but they can always contact Archon . What I meant is that majority of gaming is HIPS, and it will not change with the introduction of resin printers. Majority of people prefer HIPS, and I cannot see them turning en masse to resin just because printers are getting better and cheaper. All the stories about 3D printing changing the market we hear since years are just that, stories.

I think you're forgetting that Wargaming is a very niche hobby, at least in comparison to board games or card games :p

I always forget just how niche analog tabletop wargaming is then I attend the Spiel convention in Essen or look at how many YouTube views a wargaming video gets compared to a PC game video. A bigger market means potential for more/better content being made…this is one reason I try to get the RPG and wargaming communities to work closer together. Dwarven Forge has been increasingly considering wargaming customers in addition to their core RPG customers.

Szymon_Archon wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

Szymon_Archon wrote:
GW almost has a monopoly with how much market share they have, it's like comparing Steam to the Epic Games Store or GOG. HIPS minis for TTRPGs are very much a niche. Even if there are some companies that use HIPS minis, there's a huge barrier to entry, and most companies opt for other materials. WizKids still doesn't use HIPS very often, because it's way above their level of expertise. They have their sprues made in China for their Frameworks line, but they don't look particularly great because they're not fully aware of the entire production process, nor how to make it more efficient.

I agree that smaller companies have harder with HIPS than GW but they can always contact Archon . What I meant is that majority of gaming is HIPS, and it will not change with the introduction of resin printers. Majority of people prefer HIPS, and I cannot see them turning en masse to resin just because printers are getting better and cheaper. All the stories about 3D printing changing the market we hear since years are just that, stories.

I think you're forgetting that Wargaming is a very niche hobby, at least in comparison to board games or card games :p

Of course it is but we are talking here about wargaming (even if with some RPG elements for some solo ones like Rangers of Shadow Deep etc.) not the other hobbies. Otherwise in the board games area PVC will always beat HIPS (and other materials as well) as boardgamers in majority do not want to build their minis etc.

Super Stretch Goal article

Now, you might be wondering how to get your hands on these fantastic subthemes. In our Caves crowdfunding campaign, there will be three Super Stretch Goals. Each time one of these goals is unlocked, you will receive a list of three subthemes to choose from. Starting with the second pledge, you'll receive three subthemes of your choice for free, and if you opt for the all-in pledge, you'll be able to choose 9 sets of any combination out of the unlocked subthemes! And if that's not enough, worry not. These subthemes will also be available as optional add-ons. Last, but not least, you can choose between standard and pre-painted versions to suit your preferences!

https://archon-studio.com/blog/dungeons-lasers-vi-caves-subthemes

Short question: Has someone experienced mould release agent to be leftover on the sprue? There is green/blueish liquid that smells a bit like vinegear on my Kazumi Temple Sprue and I am not sure how to handle it. Simply wash it of with water/soap? Wearing gloves required?

AMA 26th October

- New Airship renders (see images looks great ) stand 7-8cm tall. More variants later (red parts optional, swap for other variants). Middle section expandable, Working on Airship game for 2025,
- Master of Orion KS probably Q3 2024
- No plans for 15mm terrain (hinted at manufacturing for another company - likely Mantics Warpath Epic)
- No spell effects in Caves they will be part of the dice KS
- Deuslair likely to ship in January last tools in December before move to new premises
- Caves likely pushed to January 2024 in order get prepaints right still prototyping
- Prepaints for terrain only for now, capacity issue
- Minecarts and tracks SG for caves
- Carnage tract in tinted clear plastic (pink/red)
- Titanomachy - WIPS early low detail and faction concepts Humans, Demons, AI - 3 sizes of Mech up to 3 walls tall of Rampart terrain (no more), new terrain - city ruins, prepaints inc. mechs. available 90cm x 90cm play area 5-6 titans per side, depends on titan size. Stater set with 2 factions, 3rd available separately. 32mm on foot titan hunters planned
-

charles_the_dead_lizzard wrote:
Short question: Has someone experienced mould release agent to be leftover on the sprue? There is green/blueish liquid that smells a bit like vinegear on my Kazumi Temple Sprue and I am not sure how to handle it. Simply wash it of with water/soap? Wearing gloves required?

never seen anything like that

i'd contact archon directly as it's certainly not something you should expect https://archon-studio.com/contact (or if you bought it from a retailer in the UK or EU just return it for a replacement)

Never seeing it either.

I'm less enthusiastic about Titanomachy now that it's 28mm scaled with mech 3 Rampart stories tall and played on square Rampart terrain, but somehow also on a hex grid.

My post-Spiel blog post has a gallery of photos taken of the Archon painted D&L pieces they had on display…

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/2023/10/31/spiel-in-essen-2023/

The titans on hex bases with smaller models on round is an odd choice. And the bases are too small to allow for any sort of posing.

Other than that they look cool...

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
My post-Spiel blog post has a gallery of photos taken of the Archon painted D&L pieces they had on display…

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/2023/10/31/spiel-in-essen-2023/

Ah yes pictures for ants

Nice post!

Does Archon have those painted pics on their website? I prefer to steal other's paint schemes, so I don't paint myself into a corner (eg. too many dark colors on a miniature).