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 xeen wrote:
Today’s war com article (can’t copy link) says the Stand alone Ork book won’t be until after the Orlando open. That starts august 14. That is very troubling news for ork players and those of us still waiting on a dex. Just thought I would get this out there

Edit. Sorry 13th

Edit 2. This release the book with a special box then the stand alone later is F-ing BS

This is also how they handled the Sisters of Battle army box and the Lumineth release. Special box with special codex first, regular codex and full releases 2-3 months later. It sucks but it shouldn't come as a surprise.

 xeen wrote:
Today’s war com article (can’t copy link) says the Stand alone Ork book won’t be until after the Orlando open. That starts august 14. That is very troubling news for ork players and those of us still waiting on a dex. Just thought I would get this out there

Edit. Sorry 13th

Edit 2. This release the book with a special box then the stand alone later is F-ing BS

Probably means those that did snag the box won't be able to actually use those new models for the Open.

Commisar Marbh wrote:

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
So the queue time estimate was totally bogus. Actually ended up being 23 minutes from the original 3 minutes. What a waste of time.

Wonder how long GW can continue with the bad feels they create with these types of releases.

]\

I would hope they look at this as cash left on the table and change their practices.

]

HAHAHAHA

Oh wait, you're serious? Let me laugh even harder!

In GW Land, where up is down and left is right, selling out in under 10 minutes and creating lots of unhappy customers and leaving tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars on the table is seen as a sign of SUCCESS. If GW didn't learn their lesson after Indomitus this time last year, they are NEVER, EVER going to learn.

It is astounding how time after time, they do the same thing and people are surprised by it. Its like dealing with battered wives, "but this time its going to be different!".

And before the white knights and shills descend like a swarm of locusts with their "but muh coivd" and "but muh supply chain"; I've two comments to that:

1. This is behavior that predates the current situation by YEARS. Decades, in fact. I know blaming all your failures and incompetence on covid is in vogue these days, but that doesn't explain the Sisters release or any of the countless others where the exact same thing happened.

2. GW isn't the only company dealing with things, and a very solid argument can be made that they should be doing a much better job of it given the extent of their vertical integration. Are there no print houses in the whole of the UK that can print codexes & cards? No smaller shops that they can subcontract with to make more minis? Doing a made to order like with Indomitus, just keep it open over the weekend. If print runs are an issue, just have a counter on the website - when we sell 10K of these, we make more, tell your friends. So many solutions, but they require actually caring about your customer base, not being a yes man, and thinking outside the lines.

FWIW, I don't even want one of these sets - I just feel bad for the guys who do.

 Phobos wrote:

Commisar Marbh wrote:

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
So the queue time estimate was totally bogus. Actually ended up being 23 minutes from the original 3 minutes. What a waste of time.

Wonder how long GW can continue with the bad feels they create with these types of releases.

]\

I would hope they look at this as cash left on the table and change their practices.

]

HAHAHAHA

Oh wait, you're serious? Let me laugh even harder!

In GW Land, where up is down and left is right, selling out in under 10 minutes and creating lots of unhappy customers and leaving tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars on the table is seen as a sign of SUCCESS. If GW didn't learn their lesson after Indomitus this time last year, they are NEVER, EVER going to learn.

It is astounding how time after time, they do the same thing and people are surprised by it. Its like dealing with battered wives, "but this time its going to be different!".

And before the white knights and shills descend like a swarm of locusts with their "but muh coivd" and "but muh supply chain"; I've two comments to that:

1. This is behavior that predates the current situation by YEARS. Decades, in fact. I know blaming all your failures and incompetence on covid is in vogue these days, but that doesn't explain the Sisters release or any of the countless others where the exact same thing happened.

2. GW isn't the only company dealing with things, and a very solid argument can be made that they should be doing a much better job of it given the extent of their vertical integration. Are there no print houses in the whole of the UK that can print codexes & cards? No smaller shops that they can subcontract with to make more minis? Doing a made to order like with Indomitus, just keep it open over the weekend. If print runs are an issue, just have a counter on the website - when we sell 10K of these, we make more, tell your friends. So many solutions, but they require actually caring about your customer base, not being a yes man, and thinking outside the lines.

FWIW, I don't even want one of these sets - I just feel bad for the guys who do.

It's a success because they can then take every model in the box and sell it individually at thrice the price in three months. Why would they WANT to sell a lot of discounted boxes? That just means they make less cash per sprue.

that is the point, GW lives from the momentum those releases make

by having not enough boxes in the first run, they create a "need" for the models that would not be there in the first place

so they can sell the individual models for more than any sculper would try, and because there are not enough cheap boxes in the first place, there are not enough models on the 2nd hand market to undercut the price of the original models


GW learned a lot in the past from those boxes:

- don't make enough discount boxes, some people just buy them for the hype and sell them off later for less, if there are to many cheap models from the box, no one is going to buy the full price any more

- create a hype of "need them now" and the fear of missing out, so people buy and start armies and buy the other stuff who would not have done so if they felt they could get a box whenever they wanted (and not just now or never)

- don't invest into too many machines/people to fill the market
if you could sell 10.000 copies more than you can produce now, but to make the new machines worth it they need to sell 15.000 copies more each release over the next 3 years, it is not worth it by any means (as the market is changing and anything more than a year is too long) and as long the amount of people who start is bigger than those that leave, there is no problem in leaving angry costumers behind

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Phobos wrote:

Commisar Marbh wrote:

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
So the queue time estimate was totally bogus. Actually ended up being 23 minutes from the original 3 minutes. What a waste of time.

Wonder how long GW can continue with the bad feels they create with these types of releases.

]\

I would hope they look at this as cash left on the table and change their practices.

]

HAHAHAHA

Oh wait, you're serious? Let me laugh even harder!

In GW Land, where up is down and left is right, selling out in under 10 minutes and creating lots of unhappy customers and leaving tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars on the table is seen as a sign of SUCCESS. If GW didn't learn their lesson after Indomitus this time last year, they are NEVER, EVER going to learn.

It is astounding how time after time, they do the same thing and people are surprised by it. Its like dealing with battered wives, "but this time its going to be different!".

And before the white knights and shills descend like a swarm of locusts with their "but muh coivd" and "but muh supply chain"; I've two comments to that:

1. This is behavior that predates the current situation by YEARS. Decades, in fact. I know blaming all your failures and incompetence on covid is in vogue these days, but that doesn't explain the Sisters release or any of the countless others where the exact same thing happened.

2. GW isn't the only company dealing with things, and a very solid argument can be made that they should be doing a much better job of it given the extent of their vertical integration. Are there no print houses in the whole of the UK that can print codexes & cards? No smaller shops that they can subcontract with to make more minis? Doing a made to order like with Indomitus, just keep it open over the weekend. If print runs are an issue, just have a counter on the website - when we sell 10K of these, we make more, tell your friends. So many solutions, but they require actually caring about your customer base, not being a yes man, and thinking outside the lines.

FWIW, I don't even want one of these sets - I just feel bad for the guys who do.

It's a success because they can then take every model in the box and sell it individually at thrice the price in three months. Why would they WANT to sell a lot of discounted boxes? That just means they make less cash per sprue.

Yep. It's a hype generation strategy. They've clearly got internal metrics that show them that the buzz these boxes create outweigh the negative feelings it creates in people who missed out. As a previous commenter noted, this FOMO-generation strategy pre-dates COVID and will likely extend long past it.

 Phobos wrote:
And before the white knights and shills descend like a swarm of locusts with their "but muh coivd" and "but muh supply chain"; I've two comments to that:

Sure way to win an argument. Just defame anybody with a different opinion right away.

 Mr. Grey wrote:

 Blastum wrote:
Wow...just wow...this is worse than a Shepard Fairey print drop on the Obey website.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There are people on eBay selling for $300 and have multiple copies. WTF?!?!?!

I would guess that scalpers managed to find a way to beat the queue and buy multiple copies all in one go.

Honestly, I could have easily gotten ten or more copies, as I was queued with multiple different devices and had a friend and my wife help me. I left the device with the highest number in the queue just to see if they would sell out as fast as it did in other countries, but there were still both boxes available.

And if I wanted, I have the technical knowledge to easily get hundreds of devices to enter the queue without leaving my chair, and each one of them could have entered the queue and gotten a copy.

I just didn't. Because it's wrong.

Man, this is my first time not being able to get something! It sucks! I went to my local store right after they opened this morning to place a preorder, and I was already number 12 in line. The owner said he only expected to get 4.

I got there like 15 minutes after the store opened too! Ridiculous.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Blastum wrote:
Wow...just wow...this is worse than a Shepard Fairey print drop on the Obey website.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There are people on eBay selling for $300 and have multiple copies. WTF?!?!?!

Probably unscrupulous retailers.

This is extremely likely. It was limit one per customer per order, and after each order it booted you back to the queue.

Well, unless you were going like Jidmah. We'll see how many preorders from GW shops stay though, as Mondays are when GW cancels unpaid preorders made via the instore terminals.

They should have gone for a "Made to Order" so people wouldn't have missed out, I signed in and it was sold out immediately.

 Blastum wrote:
Wow...just wow...this is worse than a Shepard Fairey print drop on the Obey website.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There are people on eBay selling for $300 and have multiple copies. WTF?!?!?!

I was looking before USA went up to order and there were a ton of eBay willing to ship to USA for around 300 and 30 shipping which is easily double the cost they are in Europe. Someone is making some money.

anyone know the points of the squig pigs?

zamerion wrote:
anyone know the points of the squig pigs?

U sit on top

 kodos wrote:
that is the point, GW lives from the momentum those releases make

by having not enough boxes in the first run, they create a "need" for the models that would not be there in the first place

so they can sell the individual models for more than any sculper would try, and because there are not enough cheap boxes in the first place, there are not enough models on the 2nd hand market to undercut the price of the original models


GW learned a lot in the past from those boxes:

- don't make enough discount boxes, some people just buy them for the hype and sell them off later for less, if there are to many cheap models from the box, no one is going to buy the full price any more

- create a hype of "need them now" and the fear of missing out, so people buy and start armies and buy the other stuff who would not have done so if they felt they could get a box whenever they wanted (and not just now or never)

- don't invest into too many machines/people to fill the market
if you could sell 10.000 copies more than you can produce now, but to make the new machines worth it they need to sell 15.000 copies more each release over the next 3 years, it is not worth it by any means (as the market is changing and anything more than a year is too long) and as long the amount of people who start is bigger than those that leave, there is no problem in leaving angry costumers behind

It's a balance, I do wonder if GW have it right. My cupboard is full of crap I impulse bought because it looked cool at release, and full of empty spaces where I couldn't get something when the hype was there and then when it did become available the hype had died down and the more intelligent part of me said don't buy it.

Not to mention there's a ton of people who simply won't buy it at non-bundle prices.

they don't need to have it right, they just need enough people to sell out or sell enough for profit

and because there are not a lot of those out there, there is no good reason to produce more without also changing the system behind it
as more discount boxes available also need a different marketing and strategy to sell them
but never change a running system

 kodos wrote:
they don't need to have it right, they just need enough people to sell out or sell enough for profit

and because there are not a lot of those out there, there is no good reason to produce more without also changing the system behind it
as more discount boxes available also need a different marketing and strategy to sell them
but never change a running system

There's not too many companies that wouldn't take the opportunity to make more money. Even if they're selling out and can't produce more, it'd benefit them to make more money of each SKU.

I love orks they are my one true 40k army so i tried to get one at my LGS and GW online I got on the list at my LGS but not early enough and didn't get it at GW online.

In hindsight it is probably a good thing. I am not overly fond of the beast snaggas anyway. I could honestly probably be happy getting a new unit of boys when they come out and the new big squig rider... and if i decide to actually play 40k again then get a codex then. Getting a box of boys i can just add a few boys to each of my already units to make them look cool and add variety.

If they change the base size oh well. I am not redoing my bases on my army anyway. It is what it is. My LGS isn't a GW store so I doubt they will care and GW doesn't have big events anymore like back in 4th and 5th edition that are worthwhile or easy to attend anyway.

there are a lot, specially those with small in house manufacturing

the opportunity to sell more and make more money but with the need to make a big investment including running costs for people to operate it and no guarantee that you still sell out everything on release is not an easy decision

this comes down if you want to stay happy in your niche and sell everything, or expand and go out of your niche with the risk of stock being left behind and the more in sales is not enough to make up for the investment

many small productions decide to stay small because it work as the little more they can make is not enough compared to the risk

and as long as GW makes such a profit there is no need to risk anything

Well, GW is not exactly a pop and mom company. It's a big publically trade one. Their goal should be to maximize their profit (to a certain extent of course). It's obvious that they leave a lot of money on the table, for god knows what reason. I could understand if it was a AOS or Specialist release, but is there a 40k box in the last few years that hasn't sold out in less than a day?


It's pretty obvious that they keep the number produced on these boxes ridiculously low, and it would be interesting to hear why from the execs (which theyll never do unfortunately)

 streetsamurai wrote:
Well, GW is not exactly a pop and mom company. It's a big publically trade one. Their goal should be to maximize their profit (to a certain extent of course). It's obvious that they leave a lot of money on the table, for god knows what reason. I could understand if it was a AOS or Specialist release, but is there a 40k box in the last few years that hasn't sold out in less than a day?


It's pretty obvious that they keep the number produced on these boxes ridiculously low, and it would be interesting to hear why from the execs (which theyll never do unfortunately)

Blood of the Phoenix hung around for a long while. Some retailers still had it in stock when the models were released separately.

I could definitely see GW being concerned about over-producing a Xenos release, especially when it involves a new design direction like Beast Snaggas that could turn out to be unpopular (see: mixed comments on the new AOS orks). When the codex & models are coming out separately a little later, they're always going to err on the side of caution.

Wasn't there barely was any new model un blood of the phoenix?

 streetsamurai wrote:
Well, GW is not exactly a pop and mom company. It's a big publically trade one. Their goal should be to maximize their profit (to a certain extent of course). It's obvious that they leave a lot of money on the table, for god knows what reason. I could understand if it was a AOS or Specialist release, but is there a 40k box in the last few years that hasn't sold out in less than a day?


It's pretty obvious that they keep the number produced on these boxes ridiculously low, and it would be interesting to hear why from the execs (which theyll never do unfortunately)

They want to keep the demand high, hence sending out the promos for free advertising. Building the hype up has let them sell less to vendors which in turn allows them to sell more directly on their website thus make more profit per item.

Plus with the hype up they slowly trickle the other products out hoping people buy them at full prices as there is a discount involved in the boxed army and limited edition sets. The problem is people keep buying into the hype and keep buying from them despite their horrible business practices that aim to reward stock holders and give little to no care to their consumers.

The best case of this is the fact that something like 80% of their sales is to the USA and yet the cost in the USA is 30% higher then Europe for the same product. If the USA boycotted new releases... which would never happen.... it would force GW to have to lower their prices or atleast make it equalivent to Europes prices. But this will never happen. I think if USA could boycott GW for 6 months they would drop the prices considerably given we make up the majority of their sales.

Spikey Bits just did a good youtube video on this kinda explains the value of voting with your hobby dollars and how GW is screwing over vendors and customers alike. It is worth a watch. I learned a lot about these FOMO boxes and GW's marketing in general.

If thats really their strategy, they migh be heading toward a wall. IIRC, GW went into some trouble when they first introduced their websites, cause they were doing discounts that LGS couldn't match. At first, it made them a lot of money, but after a while, a lot of LGS closed or mostly turned to other games (primarily Warmachine), so they kind of killed the golden goose.

Will be interesting to see if history will repeat itself if they really are making a push toward more sell through their website. Maybe they feel that they have now a strong enough digital presence, and thst they don't need lgs as much for recruiting new player

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Blastum wrote:
Wow...just wow...this is worse than a Shepard Fairey print drop on the Obey website.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There are people on eBay selling for $300 and have multiple copies. WTF?!?!?!

Probably unscrupulous retailers.

Retailers were hard limited to 4 copies. There are a total of 6 game stores within 120 miles of me and all of them only received four copies. Looks like this box was very limited.

 streetsamurai wrote:
If thats really their strategy, they migh be heading toward a wall. IIRC, GW went into some trouble when they first introduced their websites, cause they were doing discounts that LGS couldn't match. At first, it made them a lot of money, but after a while, a lot of LGS closed or mostly turned to other games (primarily Warmachine), so they kind of killed the golden goose.

Will be interesting to see if history will repeat itself if they really are making a push toward more sell through their website. Maybe they feel that they have now a strong enough digital presence, and thst they don't need lgs as much for recruiting new player

That only makes sense if they kept plenty of stock for their own website while starving FLGS. On the evidence of this thread (GW website out of stock in minutes) that is not the case. FLGS had limited stock as there was simply limited stock to go around. Not a grand plan to squeeze them out.

An FLGS owner on this forum complained about getting too many boxes of Dominion to shift quickly just weeks ago.

My biggest hope relative to this problem is that they include advance ordering for limited releases as part of Warhammer+. Treat it like Amazon Prime where membership has its privileges, free 2-day shipping in the case of Amazon, not having to spend your Saturday afternoon in a queue to buy toy soldiers for Warhammer+.

 flaherty wrote:
My biggest hope relative to this problem is that they include advance ordering for limited releases as part of Warhammer+. Treat it like Amazon Prime where membership has its privileges, free 2-day shipping in the case of Amazon, not having to spend your Saturday afternoon in a queue to buy toy soldiers for Warhammer+.

Oh God, please no.

 streetsamurai wrote:
Well, GW is not exactly a pop and mom company. It's a big publically trade one. Their goal should be to maximize their profit (to a certain extent of course). It's obvious that they leave a lot of money on the table, for god knows what reason. I could understand if it was a AOS or Specialist release, but is there a 40k box in the last few years that hasn't sold out in less than a day?


It's pretty obvious that they keep the number produced on these boxes ridiculously low, and it would be interesting to hear why from the execs (which theyll never do unfortunately)

Is it more profitable to sell more discount bundles or to prime the pump and then release the same models unbundled at a higher combined price point? I'm not saying that is their strategy, but you have to think about it.

Personally, I think it has more to do with GW having less production capacity than the market demands. They just can't churn out enough of the new stuff and the old stuff to make more of these launch kits. Instead, they accept that they will sell out lightning fast and leave it to the customer to find a discount pack or purchase the kits separately. Not nice, but they only have so much production time.

Looks like they put their production into overdrive for Dominion over this. It makes sense for the launch box (or whatever they call it) of a new edition of their 2nd most popular game when going against the release of a single faction starter box for a 40k army. Then again from a business point of view the Beast Snagga box *should* have a far greater profit margin than Dominion (maybe the Codex lowers that margin?). I just hope they can learn from this kind of release.