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I expect they will not have Storm Shield and will have some special unit specific shield instead. Thus 2+ Save and 4++ while not needing to worry about any future changes to the Storm Shield carrying over to the unit.

Did you notice all the special weapons are now Ministorum X instead of just X? More ways to separate the wargear and avoid the "we changed it here so have to changed it everywhere" problem.

So basically the shield gives +1 save but not necessarily an invuln. As for attacks, since initiative is no longer a thing, adding more attacks for elves makes sense for their speed.

They don't immediately strike me as very strong. Comparing 2 to a redemptor; similar points, worse melee, 5 fewer wounds, worse T, similar shooting, similar speed, 1 better save.

The comparison to mortifiers also isn't great. They are tougher...kind of. Mortifiers are much cheaper have an extra wound and feel no pain, but worse armor and no -1 damage. Mostly though it seems like their melee is miles ahead of the warsuits.

We'll see what else they get and how they stack up when all of the buffs are said and done. 4 attacks (sword) just seem so few for an 80 point model.

drakerocket wrote:
They don't immediately strike me as very strong. Comparing 2 to a redemptor; similar points, worse melee, 5 fewer wounds, worse T, similar shooting, similar speed, 1 better save.

The comparison to mortifiers also isn't great. They are tougher...kind of. Mortifiers are much cheaper have an extra wound and feel no pain, but worse armor and no -1 damage. Mostly though it seems like their melee is miles ahead of the warsuits.

We'll see what else they get and how they stack up when all of the buffs are said and done. 4 attacks (sword) just seem so few for an 80 point model.

Where is the point cost info from?

 alextroy wrote:
I expect they will not have Storm Shield and will have some special unit specific shield instead. Thus 2+ Save and 4++ while not needing to worry about any future changes to the Storm Shield carrying over to the unit.

Did you notice all the special weapons are now Ministorum X instead of just X? More ways to separate the wargear and avoid the "we changed it here so have to changed it everywhere" problem.

With bespoke system no such worry. All rules in datasheet. No need for datasheet rules match. Not even unheard for gw.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

drakerocket wrote:
They don't immediately strike me as very strong. Comparing 2 to a redemptor; similar points, worse melee, 5 fewer wounds, worse T, similar shooting, similar speed, 1 better save.

The comparison to mortifiers also isn't great. They are tougher...kind of. Mortifiers are much cheaper have an extra wound and feel no pain, but worse armor and no -1 damage. Mostly though it seems like their melee is miles ahead of the warsuits.

We'll see what else they get and how they stack up when all of the buffs are said and done. 4 attacks (sword) just seem so few for an 80 point model.

Where is the point cost info from?

Munitorum Field Manual packaged with Chapter Approved 2021.

Iracundus wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/01/the-adepta-sororitas-latest-reinforcements-just-love-whacking-things-with-giant-maces/


Paragon Warsuit
-1 Damage from each attack allocated to it.

No mention of a minimum Damage. I hope this is not intended since as written it could be interpreted to mean Damage 1 goes to 0.

Could just be lazy copy-pasting.
Wouldn't be the first time that the blurp in a community article hasn't matched with what the book actually says.

 Ordana wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/01/the-adepta-sororitas-latest-reinforcements-just-love-whacking-things-with-giant-maces/


Paragon Warsuit
-1 Damage from each attack allocated to it.

No mention of a minimum Damage. I hope this is not intended since as written it could be interpreted to mean Damage 1 goes to 0.

Could just be lazy copy-pasting.
Wouldn't be the first time that the blurp in a community article hasn't matched with what the book actually says.

I kinda wonder if it isn't intended they be immune t d1 attacks. At 80pts per model, that's a VERY expensive squad to bo out there with half or worse of a mortifiers damage output (shooting+melee). They absolutely need significant longevity to have enough time on the board to make their points back.

Besides, how many D1 weapons are you really gonna be hitting them with? Even heavy bolters are D2 now.

ERJAK wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/01/the-adepta-sororitas-latest-reinforcements-just-love-whacking-things-with-giant-maces/


Paragon Warsuit
-1 Damage from each attack allocated to it.

No mention of a minimum Damage. I hope this is not intended since as written it could be interpreted to mean Damage 1 goes to 0.

Could just be lazy copy-pasting.
Wouldn't be the first time that the blurp in a community article hasn't matched with what the book actually says.

I kinda wonder if it isn't intended they be immune t d1 attacks. At 80pts per model, that's a VERY expensive squad to bo out there with half or worse of a mortifiers damage output (shooting+melee). They absolutely need significant longevity to have enough time on the board to make their points back.

Besides, how many D1 weapons are you really gonna be hitting them with? Even heavy bolters are D2 now.

When they charge into my cultist blobs, I'd like to be able to ding even 1 point of damage off of them through great luck...
Or if say my brother charged his 30 ork boyz in, they should probably be able to scratch the paint. If they can tear apart a Knight, they should be able to hurt a warsuit.

Lol, there is absolutely zero chance they're actually supposed to be immune to D1 attacks, especially since their boss lady with the better paragon armor isn't. It's just another example of GW laziness in putting out these articles (or, if it's in the codex, an example of GW laziness when it comes to rules proofreading).

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Attacks as laughable. Basic Wyches rock 4-5 Attacks and even base Kabalites or Rangers come with 2, while Super-Elite-Celestians only have 2, Paragons only have 3 and base Sisters presumably still only have 1?

Pretty disappointing.

Wait till you notice paragon warsuits have ork boy statline

 Irbis wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Attacks as laughable. Basic Wyches rock 4-5 Attacks and even base Kabalites or Rangers come with 2, while Super-Elite-Celestians only have 2, Paragons only have 3 and base Sisters presumably still only have 1?

Pretty disappointing.

Wait till you notice paragon warsuits have ork boy statline

Boyz are M8, W4, BS3, and have 2+ saves now? Must've missed that in the Orks preview.

Didn't you get the memo?-) only toughness matters these days

(that and ws are only one they share)

 Irbis wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Attacks as laughable. Basic Wyches rock 4-5 Attacks and even base Kabalites or Rangers come with 2, while Super-Elite-Celestians only have 2, Paragons only have 3 and base Sisters presumably still only have 1?

Pretty disappointing.

Wait till you notice paragon warsuits have ork boy statline

Also, yeah it would suck if they were on the same tier as other 2 attack models like (checks notes) repentia.

Cause we all know how terrible repentia are

ERJAK wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Attacks as laughable. Basic Wyches rock 4-5 Attacks and even base Kabalites or Rangers come with 2, while Super-Elite-Celestians only have 2, Paragons only have 3 and base Sisters presumably still only have 1?

Pretty disappointing.

Wait till you notice paragon warsuits have ork boy statline

Also, yeah it would suck if they were on the same tier as other 2 attack models like (checks notes) repentia.

Cause we all know how terrible repentia are

If repentia costed 80 pts a piece they would be garbage.

I'm not saying Paragon warsuits will be bad, that remains to be seen but 80 points for a 3A model is not a great place to start from.

 Ordana wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Attacks as laughable. Basic Wyches rock 4-5 Attacks and even base Kabalites or Rangers come with 2, while Super-Elite-Celestians only have 2, Paragons only have 3 and base Sisters presumably still only have 1?

Pretty disappointing.

Wait till you notice paragon warsuits have ork boy statline

Also, yeah it would suck if they were on the same tier as other 2 attack models like (checks notes) repentia.

Cause we all know how terrible repentia are

If repentia costed 80 pts a piece they would be garbage.

I'm not saying Paragon warsuits will be bad, that remains to be seen but 80 points for a 3A model is not a great place to start from.

Sacrosancts have 2 attacks and cost 14pts. Since Paragons have 3 attacks, I'm pretty clearly talking about those.

Dunno how good Paragons will be. Doubt they'll be better than Mortifiers at 80 but maybe they have more synergy we're not seeing.

My bigger point is that number of attacks doesn't necessarily determine a model's effectiveness. It's part of it, but definitely not the full story.

ERJAK wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Attacks as laughable. Basic Wyches rock 4-5 Attacks and even base Kabalites or Rangers come with 2, while Super-Elite-Celestians only have 2, Paragons only have 3 and base Sisters presumably still only have 1?

Pretty disappointing.

Wait till you notice paragon warsuits have ork boy statline

Also, yeah it would suck if they were on the same tier as other 2 attack models like (checks notes) repentia.

Cause we all know how terrible repentia are

If repentia costed 80 pts a piece they would be garbage.

I'm not saying Paragon warsuits will be bad, that remains to be seen but 80 points for a 3A model is not a great place to start from.

Sacrosancts have 2 attacks and cost 14pts. Since Paragons have 3 attacks, I'm pretty clearly talking about those.

Dunno how good Paragons will be. Doubt they'll be better than Mortifiers at 80 but maybe they have more synergy we're not seeing.

My bigger point is that number of attacks doesn't necessarily determine a model's effectiveness. It's part of it, but definitely not the full story.

You replied to someone talking about Paragons,

 Ordana wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Ordana wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Attacks as laughable. Basic Wyches rock 4-5 Attacks and even base Kabalites or Rangers come with 2, while Super-Elite-Celestians only have 2, Paragons only have 3 and base Sisters presumably still only have 1?

Pretty disappointing.

Wait till you notice paragon warsuits have ork boy statline

Also, yeah it would suck if they were on the same tier as other 2 attack models like (checks notes) repentia.

Cause we all know how terrible repentia are

If repentia costed 80 pts a piece they would be garbage.

I'm not saying Paragon warsuits will be bad, that remains to be seen but 80 points for a 3A model is not a great place to start from.

Sacrosancts have 2 attacks and cost 14pts. Since Paragons have 3 attacks, I'm pretty clearly talking about those.

Dunno how good Paragons will be. Doubt they'll be better than Mortifiers at 80 but maybe they have more synergy we're not seeing.

My bigger point is that number of attacks doesn't necessarily determine a model's effectiveness. It's part of it, but definitely not the full story.

You replied to someone talking about Paragons,

They were talking about all three in the original comment.

Why is everyone hung up on the CC of the Paragons ? They have two different shooting weapons, and the unit stats plus the CCW they take. We don't know all their details yet. They aren't all about CC, they have shooting and are fairly tough with just the details we know.

The cost is fairly high so the devil will be in the details with them as is often the case. Either way, if they don't rock the world, they probably eventually will as is the way with GW.

The CC celestians feel great to me. While still not knowing all about them I love their look and feel, great unit, imo. Will they rock the world, doubtful but they look great and feel like a good bodyguard unit to me anyways.

It's amazing how great Judith looks with a head swap.

Odd that they dug up the two Deathwatch Overkill genestealers (with the smooshy backs like the original Space Hulk models) to put in that pic.

Really like the shield sisters' paint job.

Holy crap, it just dawned on me that this is the most models of a non-OML Order I've ever seen in one official GW photograph. Damn that red PA looks decadent on the Sacresants.

Edti: Also, I realize dakka doesn't seem to comment much on crusade/narrative bits, but I'm quite looking forward to developing an organic story for a character or two with the Saint Potenta Crusade rules.

 GaroRobe wrote:

Spoiler:

It's amazing how great Judith looks with a head swap.

Good luck recreating that conversion though. That's the head of the Canoness from the Limited Edition Box Set (seriously GW, why have you not released her as a blister pack yet!).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kaffis wrote:
Holy crap, it just dawned on me that this is the most models of a non-OML Order I've ever seen in one official GW photograph. Damn that red PA looks decadent on the Sacresants.

Edti: Also, I realize dakka doesn't seem to comment much on crusade/narrative bits, but I'm quite looking forward to developing an organic story for a character or two with the Saint Potenta Crusade rules.

I really like the sound of the Crusade rules for making a Saint, sounds like fun and there's even a reason to martyr them if you need to boost your Crusade army.

I've seen some complaints in more Sisters focused community spaces about there being no ability to make a generic living saint, but I don't think we'll see that until GW releases a kit at some point in the future.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I've seen some complaints in more Sisters focused community spaces about there being no ability to make a generic living saint, but I don't think we'll see that until GW releases a kit at some point in the future.

Yeah, I think this is the next best thing, because I agree. I'm not even sure what a generic matched play Living Saint datacard would even look like, though -- Celestine's a named character; that's like asking what's a generic Pedro Kantor? I feel like what people who complain about no generic Living Saint should most reasonably expect/wishlist are a return of the jump canoness (with new kit) that they can kitbash to have actual wings or whatever. That, and maybe a relic-style warlord add-on that confers some of Celestine's saintly special sauce, like a watered down version of Miraculous Intervention (or whatever the 9th ed equivalent for Celestine will be).

Otherwise, you can always just rename your kitbashed winged Sister and say she counts as Celestine the same way one might counts-as a first founding chapter's character for one of their "successors" (using the straight primogenitor's chapter rules).

And, honestly, Celestine's probably the named character that I feel least awkward playing in 40k, as her whole schtick is that she shows up unexpectedly all over the place. It's not like one questions why Celestine is at any given tabletop-sized skirmish or whatever, the way I can't help but feel weird that, say (to pull a random example out of thin air with no regard for actual metas), Azrael might show up at 40% of the Dark Angels battles based on a given tournament's field of lists. Heck, even though she was a sister of the Order of Our Martyred Lady, she'll join any order's fight with equal abandon, so the lack of a generic Living Saint doesn't even cause frustrations with internal order balance the way that, say, Junith does for people who want to have a canoness superior-level warlord for an army not using the OML order conviction.

They kinda did that, maybe? The article mentioned glowing wings as one of the upgrades available; could this be a jump infantry upgrade, or just fluffy FX?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Good luck recreating that conversion though. That's the head of the Canoness from the Limited Edition Box Set (seriously GW, why have you not released her as a blister pack yet!).

Well, it'll be on Warhammer Imperium for £9 at some point.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
They kinda did that, maybe? The article mentioned glowing wings as one of the upgrades available; could this be a jump infantry upgrade, or just fluffy FX?

Well, it's a crusade rule, not matched play, regardless. Optimistically, one could speculate that they're using the narrative play/crusade upgrades to pilot potential new wargear/options/whatever for future matched play legal units with new model releases or versions of the codex.

Kaffis wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
They kinda did that, maybe? The article mentioned glowing wings as one of the upgrades available; could this be a jump infantry upgrade, or just fluffy FX?

Well, it's a crusade rule, not matched play, regardless. Optimistically, one could speculate that they're using the narrative play/crusade upgrades to pilot potential new wargear/options/whatever for future matched play legal units with new model releases or versions of the codex.

What are you on about? Nothing in this article says the upgrades are crusade only?
But they are one-use only so maybe not so good.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

Kaffis wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
They kinda did that, maybe? The article mentioned glowing wings as one of the upgrades available; could this be a jump infantry upgrade, or just fluffy FX?

Well, it's a crusade rule, not matched play, regardless. Optimistically, one could speculate that they're using the narrative play/crusade upgrades to pilot potential new wargear/options/whatever for future matched play legal units with new model releases or versions of the codex.

What are you on about? Nothing in this article says the upgrades are crusade only?
But they are one-use only so maybe not so good.

I was mis-remembering which article that section was from, my bad. I had it in my head that the wings were among the rewards for achieving sainthood in the narrative rules.

That said, putting it in the proper context of the Blessings of the Faithful rule, the 'angelic wings' spoken of might be the always-on part of the blessing (or at least, if they do confer jump infantry as part of the effect, that might be the always on part), not the one-time use part.

 The Phazer wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Good luck recreating that conversion though. That's the head of the Canoness from the Limited Edition Box Set (seriously GW, why have you not released her as a blister pack yet!).

Well, it'll be on Warhammer Imperium for £9 at some point.

I'm hoping they'll put her in the Start Collecting box at minimum. It's annoying that we have a Canoness whose wargear was unique to that kit but then she's unavailable.

Then again Games Workshop never did release that power fist Primaris captain to the wider audience so I probably shouldn't complain too much.