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jaredb wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

jaredb wrote:
Doesn't mean there will be rules does it? There have been indexs before without rules assossicated.

Have there been any in the past year that have not had rules?

Space wolves and dark angels both had ones without rules, I think there has been others.

Do you remember which editions? Feels weird that they'd feature them and then just throw fluff. Anything's possible though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brutallica wrote:
and ofc World Eaters with new garbage + attack stratagems and buttom tier relics that still wont keep us alive to get to the enemy.

You should try WE in 9th. In fact more people should. I bet they'd be surprised even without 2 wounds.

LOL you're not serious are you?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOL you're not serious are you?

It isn't even worth my time to engage with you. "LOL"

The more I think about it, considering there is already a fallen unit in a box and a new cypher model I expect this will be an update to the rules for those 2 units.

But then why not just wait for the CSM codex? Maybe they are coming out the CSM codex.

mrFickle wrote:
But then why not just wait for the CSM codex? Maybe they are coming out the CSM codex.

Or the CSM codex is a long way out. :(

The September 2019 White Dwarf had the Dark Angels Index with pictures, background, modeling, painting, stories and a single Narrative Mission in terms of rules.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Brutallica wrote:
and ofc World Eaters with new garbage + attack stratagems and buttom tier relics that still wont keep us alive to get to the enemy.

You should try WE in 9th. In fact more people should. I bet they'd be surprised even without 2 wounds.

I have - they're very mediocre, because "getting there" is a lot more essential to a melee army than dealing damage once you are. Particularly with Khorne Berserkers, who annihilate anything they touch with/without World Eaters bonuses... if they can get there relatively unmolested. Creations of Bile and Emperor's Children are so much better for melee it's embarrassing.

I don't think CSM dex will be long- I think both CSM Daemons are coming soon. The warhammer week previews from May 3rd-8th should talk about Charadon Act 2, and the factions included in it should be the next wave of dex releases.

The 3 week hiatus on preorders + the existing delay of dexes has really taken a toll, and it's making it seem like it will take forever, but those delays should resolve eventually.

I can't speculate on how good the Fallen Index will be. I've found 9th Index articles to be rules light, but they've all been Marines, who already have so much to work with.

In 8th, the Inquisition one, the Harlequin PA article and the Ynarri one were fairly well developed- Inquisition and Ynarri were almost identical to what eventually was released as PA. The SoS Index was really good for fluff, but light on rules.

Time will tell.

 MinMax wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Brutallica wrote:
and ofc World Eaters with new garbage + attack stratagems and buttom tier relics that still wont keep us alive to get to the enemy.

You should try WE in 9th. In fact more people should. I bet they'd be surprised even without 2 wounds.

I have - they're very mediocre, because "getting there" is a lot more essential to a melee army than dealing damage once you are. Particularly with Khorne Berserkers, who annihilate anything they touch with/without World Eaters bonuses... if they can get there relatively unmolested. Creations of Bile and Emperor's Children are so much better for melee it's embarrassing.

You can take beserkers in a creations of bile army and up their movement and strength

 MinMax wrote:
I have - they're very mediocre, because "getting there" is a lot more essential to a melee army than dealing damage once you are. Particularly with Khorne Berserkers, who annihilate anything they touch with/without World Eaters bonuses... if they can get there relatively unmolested. Creations of Bile and Emperor's Children are so much better for melee it's embarrassing.

Sisters run Repentia in Rhinos without hassle and those are 1 point cheaper with no armor.

Fight first sword DP. Jump Lord w/ Gorefather. Discolord with two Maulers. Apostle with 5++ and 30 cultists. 24 Bezerkers and 3 Rhinos. Scorpius.

Maybe you're not going to win a tournament but you should win games.

Yeah, ive been playing WE in 9th a couple of times, and, the army is still struggleing against heavy shoot lists (wich is very much still a thing along with first turn dominance). And yes 9th is better than 8th in terms of fun and crusade no doubt. But the only attack charge targets rule have put a big wrench in the machine for berserkers, basicly nullifing the bonuses of 9th from a WE perspective. So yeah my take is world eater with berserkers and rhinos are just as bad as in 8th. And them takeing our 2 wound marine hostage for codex sales instead of a FAQ/Errata or whatever is getting me real cranky. I think its a spit in the face for loyal customers.

PenitentJake wrote:
The SoS Index was really good for fluff, but light on rules.

Was it? We learn't basically nothing which we hadn't already got in their Codex; and there are still gaping holes in their very basic background (like where/why are they getting all this special armour and outdated weaponry? How do Cadre naming conventions work? Do they have any units beyond those which have rules? What are their views on other Imperial organisations? What do those organisations think of them? How do you use thought/battle sign to coordinate a battle..?)

TBH it is pure horsegak that they keep delaying CSM and GK. These factions are garbage without getting their 2nd wound. If they are not going to release the book any time soon then for the love of god errata the fething things already.

Hopefully the wait for a CSM book is because we're getting something significant with it, but there's still no excuse for the lack of FAQ/Index PDF with the second wound etc. As it stands, I'll be surprised if we get a book this year.

Why do you have to wait for an faq before you start playing with W2? GW said CSM would go to 2w so just do it

Because GW can say what ever they want, if it is not writen down as a rule or FAQ from an official source people do not agree to playing it the way you want it. May as well start re writing the whole codex, if you don't like it, specially if GW said something like they said about GSC.

Probably because they don't know how many points each unit should be increased to pay for that extra wound. It's not like marines got them for free.

mrFickle wrote:
Why do you have to wait for an faq before you start playing with W2? GW said CSM would go to 2w so just do it

Because 1) There's a points increase and we don't know what it will be, and 2) most people will not houserule it, it has to be officially updated or you're "cheating" to ask to use it.

I am curious if this is going to end up being a bit of a sneak preview for CSM. I doubt it, but it sure would be nice.

 Sasori wrote:
I am curious if this is going to end up being a bit of a sneak preview for CSM. I doubt it, but it sure would be nice.

I'd hope we'd see Daemons before we see CSM.

I just don't want CSM to arrive before WE and EC, otherwise we get a Codex that has detailed entries for 1KSons, Plague Marines, and then Berzerker and/or Noise Marine entries that will be lame compared to their no-doubt updated WE/EC versions.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
The SoS Index was really good for fluff, but light on rules.

Was it? We learn't basically nothing which we hadn't already got in their Codex; and there are still gaping holes in their very basic background (like where/why are they getting all this special armour and outdated weaponry? How do Cadre naming conventions work? Do they have any units beyond those which have rules? What are their views on other Imperial organisations? What do those organisations think of them? How do you use thought/battle sign to coordinate a battle..?)

Yeah, in hindsight, I guess there are significant gaps. I did like the fact that we got sub-factions; the fluff did, as I recall, discuss their work with the Custodes as Talons, drew new connections with the Hereticus while affirming their role as Custodians of the Black Ships and the Astra Telepathica. I also liked the Indomitus Crusade as a motivational force to bring them into more frequent contact with the enemies of the Imperium. But upon reflection, I guess they didn't go particularly far down any of those rabbit holes.

I was disappointed that they didn't include any sub-faction content in the PA rules, and I was disappointed that they didn't include minimally a generic HQ and a Troop unit.

I found Alyea's inability to function on her own and lead SoS as SoS to be the biggest of the insults; to be fair, I didn't read the novels that inspired the model.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
So it seems CSM may be further out, but maybe we'll catch an index or two before then.

First up are The Fallen. Let the speculation run wild.

Don't see it.
At best this looks like dumping the Fallen out of the Chaos Codex so they aren't wasting space there and somewhere (years) down the line they'll dump them into Legends and go back to not caring about them.

Having played WE at an RTT I can say they aren't terrible. I took some wins against SM, DW, SW, but got utterly dumpstered by DG.
The difference between WE and DG is insane. Not only do DG out-shoot WE, which you would expect against a melee focused army, but they will absolutely destroy you in melee. If you are playing WE there is basically nothing you can do against DG that will result in a win.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOL you're not serious are you?

It isn't even worth my time to engage with you. "LOL"

Well don't make obviously unfounded statements that have no basis in reality. World Eaters are bad, just not Word Bearers bad. You can do a better Khorne army with Alpha Legion.

Voss wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
So it seems CSM may be further out, but maybe we'll catch an index or two before then.

First up are The Fallen. Let the speculation run wild.

Don't see it.
At best this looks like dumping the Fallen out of the Chaos Codex so they aren't wasting space there and somewhere (years) down the line they'll dump them into Legends and go back to not caring about them.

This is what I suspect but then we’re are your units coming from, codex CSM, codex SM (firstborns) Codex DA or 30k DA.

Either way GW have finally got me to buy a copy of WD

Shouldn't the fallen have a ton of the old DA gear from the heresy times? all those rad weapons, phosphor ammo , volkites etc Or did the Lion leave the Luther forces armed with just the basic flamer, rocket launcher, bolter combo and nothing else?

Let's just all set our expectations very very low, that way no one gets hurt.

 Fergie0044 wrote:
Let's just all set our expectations very very low, that way no one gets hurt.

Nope, I think this is slow release of the fallen as a major player in the 40K universe. First we will get this list and ultimately there will be a fallen codex complemented by the release of a Luther model and an el Johnson model for the DA.

They will forget all other priorities and tear up the universe looking for each other or are they really working together. And then alpharius will be released as a model because the fallen are really the alpha legion or are they or were they all along. And there will be soooooooo many coooooopl memes about people being traitors all along.

Too little , too late, for an "subfaction" that was always centered around 1 dude basically.

Literally any of the following would've been a better Index type WD release:
Tau Auxilia.
Kroot mercenaries.
Gretchin revolution
Lost and the damned / R&H.
Eclesiarchy (non SoB variant)
Eldar corsairs
Ynnari.
Specific typus of a tyranid subfleet.
Speedcult
Prerelease of WE / EC / both.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Too little , too late, for an "subfaction" that was always centered around 1 dude basically.

Literally any of the following would've been a better Index type WD release:
Tau Auxilia.
Kroot mercenaries.
Gretchin revolution
Lost and the damned / R&H.
Eclesiarchy (non SoB variant)
Eldar corsairs
Ynnari.
Specific typus of a tyranid subfleet.
Speedcult
Prerelease of WE / EC / both.

As someone with a Heresy DA army that could play as Fallen in 40k can I just add that no, literally none of those would've been better as far as I'm concerned