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 Thargrim wrote:
The man who was the driving force behind the HH passed away, and the game has IMO gone dry ever since. I'd love mk II marines, but it seems like a pipe dream at this point. Could be HH battlefleet gothic, but another niche game might be a bad idea. Aeronautic imperialis was looking good at first with all it's plastics, but I feel like that's a game on it's way out at this point. I'd rather see a reveal and release window for the old world line but it might be too soon for that, might be a year or two away.

I think Battlefleet Gothic is a safer bet than Aeronautica Imperialis was - people have been asking for BFG since Specialist Games started up again, I didn’t see anything like that for AI before they announced it. It’s also something I believe they’ve said they want to do, but they didn’t have the resources at the time. I imagine we’ll see it at some point.

Edit: to be clear, I think Saturday is AoS 3.0. But I think BFG will do better than AI.

Still think the big reveal is Heresy relaunch.

The latest Saul Tarvitz model has oddly different packaging that seems like it is aimed at a retail display - colour image on the blister, safety warnings in multiple languages. GW is going to be sitting on a big lot of space once they finish moving the warehouse/distribution to the East Midlands Gateway site - maybe that's going to be given over to FW ?

I don't see another brand new specialist game doing the numbers. Cursed City sold well because of the miniatures being used in AOS and other systems. BFG would end up being a rerun of Aeronautica which just hasn't seemingly gained much ground beyond the original release.

The advantage of AI is it is being done at the same scale as Titanicus, so they could ultimately bring back Epic. (I’d love it if they did a White Dwarf article in the meantime with Titans as a ground target and provided the Titans with AA rules.)

The biggest problems with AI at the moment is lack of range and momentum; if there was a road map that said in three (or even six) months, you’ll get Eldar, then Chaos, etc. I think it would have more people interested. Hell, they announced Tau Remoras back in January and they still haven’t been released yet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It’s the classic catch-22 / Firefly syndrome; people aren’t willing to buy into the game if it doesn’t look like it will be supported, but then the game becomes unsupported due to poor sales.

Even though I'd love a re-launch of BFG, FW are already struggling to support the games they currently have so adding even more onto that would be disastrous. I'm including Old World in that too.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
The man who was the driving force behind the HH passed away, and the game has IMO gone dry ever since. I'd love mk II marines, but it seems like a pipe dream at this point. Could be HH battlefleet gothic, but another niche game might be a bad idea. Aeronautic imperialis was looking good at first with all it's plastics, but I feel like that's a game on it's way out at this point. I'd rather see a reveal and release window for the old world line but it might be too soon for that, might be a year or two away.

I think Battlefleet Gothic is a safer bet than Aeronautica Imperialis was

I would like to think so, but it definitely is not a safe bet. We've heard numerous times from SG designers that they view there as being major crossover between Titanicus & BFG (both of which are essentially "battleship" games). That's the main reason why, despite it being on the schedule numerous times over the last 6 years, plans have continually been scrapped and pushed back. AI, conversely, fits its own niche.

 ImAGeek wrote:

Edit: to be clear, I think Saturday is AoS 3.0. But I think BFG will do better than AI.

All space games flop in terms of popularity. Dropfleet commander was the most popular in recent years, written by the same person as BFG (and imo one of the better game writers GW ever had), it had plastic models and big KS push, and it still failed to get a widespread audience.These kind of games are just incredibly niche, just like AI. I mean i'd like it to return, but on the other hand, it'd return with Modern GW pricing, so I'd probably still not get it anyway.

I'm also not going back to the Warmaster discussion but I'll just state I disagree with every single point raised by JT's last post and leave it at that.

Cronch wrote:

All space games flop in terms of popularity. Dropfleet commander was the most popular in recent years, written by the same person as BFG (and imo one of the better game writers GW ever had), it had plastic models and big KS push, and it still failed to get a widespread audience.These kind of games are just incredibly niche, just like AI. I mean i'd like it to return, but on the other hand, it'd return with Modern GW pricing, so I'd probably still not get it anyway.

That has much more to do with the generally fragmented nature of science-fiction fandoms than it does anything inherent to the genre. While elves/dwarves/wizards all have some commonality that people can latch onto regardless of game system, spaceship design aesthetics tend to be more unique and mix badly. Seeing Babylon 5 ships square up against a combined Imperium/Star Wars fleet is also not going to be everyone's cup of tea so that lack of mixing is a major hinderance since tastes on what "looks cool" vary wildly.

DFC is not a great comparison as it was not really a "pure" space battle game in that the theme of game required the usage of transports and a very awkward "ground phase" which actually determined the winner. While very thematic and logically coherent to emphasize that aspect, it does take away from those who wanted more of a naval game than an invasion game; DFC is essentially putting itself even further into the niche-within-a-niche category.

It was also hampered by logistical issues during the KS which resulted in people reporting missing orders and many backers receiving their pledges *well* after the same products were available at retail. This prompted many backers, who would normally be among the most ardent proponents, to divest themselves entirely. The catch-up on those backers who were missed for whatever reason also disrupted supply which made the products hard to find in many places. Hawk basically folded before DFC could really go anywhere and while TTCombat seemed like they may have started to right the ship back a bit, COVID has smacked that down quite hard. It is a shame, as they really are nice models and the Resistance ships are awesome for their variety even if you don't like the Dropverse.

Back to BFG though, they're in a vastly different situation. BFG was well-liked in its time, though some mechanics have likely aged poorly. The designs are iconic and were mostly done with an eye towards reusing parts frequently (i.e. - lower overall tooling costs). The video games have seen decent acclaim and sales. It also is a major portion of the 40k universe that players and fans would want to be able to add to their collections as well.

All of that said I doubt that they would announce it's return this week. With their various issues with supply over the past year it seems much more likely to be a big announcement in their core products. If Broken Realms is wrapping up with the next book, they mention the end of the Soul Wars and the summer is within the usual "3 month window" they like to start hyping up I suspect it's going to be AoS 3.0.

But even with "well established" settings like Star Wars, the one that took off was the "fighters in space" game, not Armada. Apparently there exists a Star Trek space game from Wizkids that I've never seen at any game store either. Another big name (relatively) for space gaming was Firestorm, and that one also failed to catch any substantial audience beyond the small niche of space-combat fans too (it was ultimately killed by terrible publishing practices, but even at it's best it wasn't a blockbuster).
I'm sure BFG would see more success than that, but ultimately it'd be another extra-niche thing like AI or Titanicus (which I know has it's fans, but again, I've never seen a live game of one anywhere, ever).

My point is, I doubt we'll ever see GW re-release that one, or if they do it'll be after every other option is exhausted. It has more chance than Epic, but that's not saying much

the Star Trek Game was X-Wing with Trek ships using old models from a different game that did not sell


The only Space Game I know that is still around after years is Full Thrust
more or less in the same niche, sometimes with more people playing it, sometimes with less

catches some with its original models, others with the possibility to build and use it for other settings
seen people using it to play Battlestar Galactica with the Revell models or Star Trek with the 1/2500 models (and also with the big models) as well as B5

FSA was big in the local club until Spartan Games closed

BFG is something I'd really like to see. That is something that is actually radically different from their main game, the 40K whilst still benefitting from the IP. Epic, Titanicus and Aeronautica are conceptually and model-wise just 40K in differnt scale.

Armada didn't take off because it had a noticeably higher pricetag attached to it; the starter was $100 for three ships that didn't really give a particularly great sample of gameplay. This contrasts sharply with X-Wing which was $40 retail and gave a good self-contained experience. While it's quite true that GW would absolutely sell a 3-ship start for $100 and tell people what a bargain it was, GW usually isn't trying to sell to a mass-market so much as their own (comparatively closed-off) ecosystem.

Most Star Wars fans are also much more into the WW1 dogfighting scenes from the movies, where capital ship engagements were not really shown other than as a backdrop. Similarly, large swathes of Star Trek were much more focused on character drama than ship battles (though starting with DS9's Dominion War arc this changes). So, while the fandom of Star Wars and Star Trek are larger in general, that doesn't mean that the pool of people who like the universe *and* ship-to-ship combat is particularly big.

Conversely, nearly *everything* about 40k is focused on war; it's in the tagline for a reason. While there are undoubtedly people who like 40k for its examination of inter-system trade regulations, labor relations and neo-feudal bureaucracy, the overwhelming majority are here for things that go "boom". The way forces get to and from those battles are going to be of greater natural interest to the GW marketplace. Would it do well enough to justify the costs? Probably, but that still reads like too much of a risk in my mind for GW to take on in present circumstances. When their supply and logistics is better situated, it could well be something they take a flyer on just to (re-)flesh out the universe, but my gut feeling is that Epic will see a comeback prior to BFG and neither of them is coming in the next week.

I'll be quite happy to be proven wrong though.

Epic I doubt, because now GW sells 35mm scale super-heavies, why would they want you to buy the cheaper, more affordable version of their flagship game?

Cronch wrote:
Epic I doubt, because now GW sells 35mm scale super-heavies, why would they want you to buy the cheaper, more affordable version of their flagship game?

Because people will buy both.

 Nevelon wrote:

Cronch wrote:
Epic I doubt, because now GW sells 35mm scale super-heavies, why would they want you to buy the cheaper, more affordable version of their flagship game?

Because people will buy both.

Yep; even with the Apocalypse ruleset, the physical logistics of "40k" scale models still doesn't allow for battles of the scale many players want to be having.

 Nevelon wrote:

Cronch wrote:
Epic I doubt, because now GW sells 35mm scale super-heavies, why would they want you to buy the cheaper, more affordable version of their flagship game?

Because people will buy both.

Eh.

If they did a good job with Epic AND attempted to include most factions... I probably would not. Maybe if 40k also shifted back to a skirmish game, but at the current scale and rules quality (balance and the random mishmash of subsystems), 40k is a hard sell. If there was an alternative at a more appropriate scale for the type of battles they want the game to have? Not a chance, I'd go exclusively Epic in a heartbeat.

JWBS wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
The man who was the driving force behind the HH passed away, and the game has IMO gone dry ever since

Yeah, you know what's a great clue that it's likely gonna be a big HH reveal on Saturday? It's the fact that they've stopped producing HH stuff at FW They're warming up for a massive HH relaunch by literally ditching HH in all other regards over the past two years (and between WM and HH, HH is actually the more likely of the two )

Um, sure? That's why over the last couple years HH has seen a decent number of releases, including:

Malevolence
Crusade
Aquitor Bombard and variants
Sabre Strike Tanks
Saul Tarvitz
Word Bearers Praetors
White Scars Praetors
Night Lords Praetors
Blood Angels Contemptor
Blood Angels Leviathan
Night Lords Contenkar Terminators
Dark Angels Praetor
Dark Angels Leviathan
Dark Angels Deathwing Companions
Dark Angels Interemptor Squad
Lion el'Johnson
Chapter Master Raldoron

...and probably a few more things I'm forgetting about.

But please. Go on about how Forge World has stopped producing HH stuff, and tell us more about how the game is dead.

I really hope we get to see whats coming up for warcry. I would love to see the original chaos warbands get upgrades akin to what the necomunda gangs get.

 Mr. Grey wrote:

JWBS wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
The man who was the driving force behind the HH passed away, and the game has IMO gone dry ever since

Yeah, you know what's a great clue that it's likely gonna be a big HH reveal on Saturday? It's the fact that they've stopped producing HH stuff at FW They're warming up for a massive HH relaunch by literally ditching HH in all other regards over the past two years (and between WM and HH, HH is actually the more likely of the two )

Um, sure? That's why over the last couple years HH has seen a decent number of releases, including:

Spoiler:

Malevolence
Crusade
Aquitor Bombard and variants
Sabre Strike Tanks
Saul Tarvitz
Word Bearers Praetors
White Scars Praetors
Night Lords Praetors
Blood Angels Contemptor
Blood Angels Leviathan
Night Lords Contenkar Terminators
Dark Angels Praetor
Dark Angels Leviathan
Dark Angels Deathwing Companions
Dark Angels Interemptor Squad
Lion el'Johnson
Chapter Master Raldoron

...and probably a few more things I'm forgetting about.

But please. Go on about how Forge World has stopped producing HH stuff, and tell us more about how the game is dead.

I think FW is slowing down on the HH front. The Contenkar terminators were previewed a year before they released. Whether that was due to covid, I'm not sure, since they looked ready to go when they were first unveiled. Though, I don't think they're going to be completely done with the series any time soon. We've got Saul now, Malaghurst is getting a model, the Khan has yet to drop, etc. But since Alan Bligh passed away, there has been a slow down in terms of HH content

You mean since Alan Bligh passed away?

I think the Alan Bligh thing is overstated and a bit of a fan narrative. FW has undergone huge changes since AB was around.

I thought the last few previews were good times for a codex roadmap but it didn't happen. I suppose this one could fulfill those hopes..

Lol, hope. Like hoping for a plastic Thousand Sons dreadnought.

 kodos wrote:
the Star Trek Game was X-Wing with Trek ships using old models from a different game that did not sell


The only Space Game I know that is still around after years is Full Thrust
more or less in the same niche, sometimes with more people playing it, sometimes with less

catches some with its original models, others with the possibility to build and use it for other settings
seen people using it to play Battlestar Galactica with the Revell models or Star Trek with the 1/2500 models (and also with the big models) as well as B5

FSA was big in the local club until Spartan Games closed

Honestly, the only space game I've seen reliably played over the past 30 year has been Star Fleet Battles.

 Mr. Grey wrote:

JWBS wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
The man who was the driving force behind the HH passed away, and the game has IMO gone dry ever since

Yeah, you know what's a great clue that it's likely gonna be a big HH reveal on Saturday? It's the fact that they've stopped producing HH stuff at FW They're warming up for a massive HH relaunch by literally ditching HH in all other regards over the past two years (and between WM and HH, HH is actually the more likely of the two )

Um, sure? That's why over the last couple years HH has seen a decent number of releases, including:

Malevolence
Crusade
Aquitor Bombard and variants
Sabre Strike Tanks
Saul Tarvitz
Word Bearers Praetors
White Scars Praetors
Night Lords Praetors
Blood Angels Contemptor
Blood Angels Leviathan
Night Lords Contenkar Terminators
Dark Angels Praetor
Dark Angels Leviathan
Dark Angels Deathwing Companions
Dark Angels Interemptor Squad
Lion el'Johnson
Chapter Master Raldoron

...and probably a few more things I'm forgetting about.

But please. Go on about how Forge World has stopped producing HH stuff, and tell us more about how the game is dead.

Great job at taking what I said 100% literally there champ I genuinely had thought that FW had released absolutely nothing for HH over the past two years this not-pathetic list of releases shows that FW and HH are keeping up the releases at quite a decent clip, especially when we consider that "Dark Angels" were like a one month release, your post would look super cool if you wrote "Two books, one tank, assorted Praetors for like three Legions, and a fairly good sized DA release", that list would look even better for two years of releases in the "Is FW doing anything at all" annual meeting : ) FW doing great. HH really thriving : )

 Brometheus wrote:
I thought the last few previews were good times for a codex roadmap but it didn't happen. I suppose this one could fulfill those hopes..

Lol, hope. Like hoping for a plastic Thousand Sons dreadnought.

Unless they increase pace from 1/month they show at most 3 codex onward and of those 2 are practically known. So at most we would learn what's next faction after sisters and orks

Voss wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

Cronch wrote:
Epic I doubt, because now GW sells 35mm scale super-heavies, why would they want you to buy the cheaper, more affordable version of their flagship game?

Because people will buy both.

Eh.

If they did a good job with Epic AND attempted to include most factions... I probably would not. Maybe if 40k also shifted back to a skirmish game, but at the current scale and rules quality (balance and the random mishmash of subsystems), 40k is a hard sell. If there was an alternative at a more appropriate scale for the type of battles they want the game to have? Not a chance, I'd go exclusively Epic in a heartbeat.

I have the first edition Taros campaign book, which had a mixture of Kill Team, 40k, Apocalypse, Epic and BFG missions to allow you to re-fight the entire campaign; if they were willing to commit to this kind of multi-game campaign/narrative books, I definitely think that would get people to buy into multiple systems.

In fact, if they ran it as a White Dwarf monthly thing, you could have a “next month we’ll be doing the air war over Tarakeen, so now’s the time to buy the AI starter box and get painting!” type of promotion.

Community did mention something about an "evolution" of Kill Team a while back, so that seems like a good bet.

AoS the Third is likely to debut at the end of the week, but I wonder if this group of previews is to get everything else wrapped up so it has the following preview all to itself? It just feels a little odd being previewed in the same week as the final chapter of Broken Realms.

Codex: Tyranids might be up next along with a new model or two, hopefully a Lictor kit that can be built as an alternative Death Leaper. Could the Red Terror strike when we're least expecting it? Shout out to Imperial Guard players in the house; it would be supremely cool if you guys got some love too and we could do battle!

Adeptus Titanicus will get either a new titan or knight to release alongside Traitor Legios.

Aeronautica is long overdue for some love, so hopefully we might see a new faction. Druhkari or Asuryani, if you please, GW. Thank you.

Got a nagging feeling that Warhammer Quest will recieve a mention on Thursday, and we'll realise then why they haven't been vocal about Cursed City. Maybe a revised edition of Cursed City or a new Warhammer Quest game altogether.

Might hear some whispers about The Old World...

No doubt more regarding the animations they've been banging on about for a while now.

It seems a bit strange that there is now two "epic scale" 30K/40K games - Titanicus and Aeronautica, but nothing in that size for neither AoS or The Old World. Not sure if this will be addressed, but Man-O-War would put a smile on many faces...

These are merely guesses, but I'm looking forward to a good week of previews nonetheless. I reckon that there will be something for everyone.

JWBS wrote:

Spoiler:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

JWBS wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
The man who was the driving force behind the HH passed away, and the game has IMO gone dry ever since

Yeah, you know what's a great clue that it's likely gonna be a big HH reveal on Saturday? It's the fact that they've stopped producing HH stuff at FW They're warming up for a massive HH relaunch by literally ditching HH in all other regards over the past two years (and between WM and HH, HH is actually the more likely of the two )

Um, sure? That's why over the last couple years HH has seen a decent number of releases, including:

Malevolence
Crusade
Aquitor Bombard and variants
Sabre Strike Tanks
Saul Tarvitz
Word Bearers Praetors
White Scars Praetors
Night Lords Praetors
Blood Angels Contemptor
Blood Angels Leviathan
Night Lords Contenkar Terminators
Dark Angels Praetor
Dark Angels Leviathan
Dark Angels Deathwing Companions
Dark Angels Interemptor Squad
Lion el'Johnson
Chapter Master Raldoron

...and probably a few more things I'm forgetting about.

But please. Go on about how Forge World has stopped producing HH stuff, and tell us more about how the game is dead.

Great job at taking what I said 100% literally there champ I genuinely had thought that FW had released absolutely nothing for HH over the past two years this not-pathetic list of releases shows that FW and HH are keeping up the releases at quite a decent clip, especially when we consider that "Dark Angels" were like a one month release, your post would look super cool if you wrote "Two books, one tank, assorted Praetors for like three Legions, and a fairly good sized DA release", that list would look even better for two years of releases in the "Is FW doing anything at all" annual meeting : ) FW doing great. HH really thriving : )

Sarcasm is hard to read in text form, champ. Maybe try harder to make it more obvious next time. Buddy.

Will do Champ (definitely won't), though tbh I think you could have inferred that I didn't think FW have released literally nothing these past two years from the fact that FW have not, in fact released literally nothing these past two years Pal

At this point, I'm done with making hypothesis about what they will show as the surprise. We'll know soon enough what will be revealed anyway.

Could be the Old World Project as far as I'm concerned, and I really don't care that much right now.

It'll be a nice week with content to watch / listen to, that's all that matters.

People keep talking about how HH is dead, meanwhile there's beardies still playing Warhammer Fantasy.

Either way, I'm not going to expect anything for the Mystery other than AoS 3.0. They'll spend Monday talking about Kragnos and the Soulblight Vampires, and save AoS 3.0 for the last day. It'll be completely expected, nothing new, we'll see some new stormcast I'm sure, and then whoever they are fighting against.

It'll be juuuuust exciting enough that people will forget about all their expectations of Horus Heresy 2.0 or Battlefleet Gothic or Old World Fantasy, but not exciting enough to warrant a full day and a cheeky 'It's a mystery' post.