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Im really surprised people are comparing the cringe levels of 8 and 9 to 2 and 3.

Attack of the clones had the pure wtf of Anakin mass-murdering children and declaring that he'd rule the galaxy with an iron fist as an absolute tyrant. Some how that was the defining moment of their relationship and the point Padme 'gave into' her 'love' for him.

Its hard to top that moment as an absolute horror-show, and Lucas' frightening level of disconnect from the concept of romance and just... people in general.

---
The relative lack of romance in the prequels was actually a relief. The few moments they tried were kinda bad, but nowhere near as gut-wrenchingly awful as 2 and 3.

I honestly feel like the straight hotness of Padme/ Natalie Portman in her prime was amazing, she was basically like my goddess for a long time. As far as killing younglings, it was really tragic for sure, but at the same time it would be "enough" basically to make Padme fall out of love with Anakin, and also be a good catalyst/catastrophe to introduce "the chosen one" into Darth Vader which was one of the most supreme dark-side users of all time.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
But there's only 6, next you'll be trying to tell us there's 4 Indy films

You can't just make up three movies to help your point. There are only three: Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. Everything is is a fever dream fan fiction.

Is anyone else shocked that MDG or Galef haven't come in here to tell us we're all wrong and Star Wars is amazing? I know I am.

To the topic at hand, I have to say 9 is worse. 8, for all its faults, and there are many, at least tried to do something that wasn't a straight up rehash of the OT and I must give credit for the attempt at telling a different story. There's still a lot of rehash in 8 too, but there are some nuggets of original ideas that I really appreciated after TFA basically just retold ANH.

I think Ep 9 is worse purely on the basis that the opening 10 minutes of the movie literally has Poe saying "Somehow, Palpatine came back". How is that an actual line in a movie? No exposition, no explanation. Surprise! Palpy is here! WOO. You have to actively search outside the movie and the weird Fortnite tie-in to see how he broadcast his return in the galaxy, which is ridiculous. This doesn't factor in how the main cast basically blunder their way into each macguffin that gets them to where they need to be, I was super bored with what I was watching and I felt like nothing was actually happening.

Also, love how they made force lightning, an advanced Sith technique that Darth Maul never used despite being a Sith himself, suddenly accessible because Rey got PMS/angry during her tug of war with Kylo Ren. Wtf. At least have her deal with consequences by letting Chewie die from that.

Similarly, ep 9 fundamentally undermines the entire prequel and OG trilogy of Anakin bringing balance to the force through his redemption thanks to Luke's efforts if Palpatine can just come back on a whim.

Ep 8 is another kind of mess altogether, but ep 9 has the sin of not only doubling down on the horrific writing of Ep8, but also for being incredibly boring. At least Ep 8 had some kind of stakes involved, even if it was poorly executed. Ep 9 just feels like everyone is following an invisible quest marker with no reason or rhyme to it.

Voss wrote:

Im really surprised people are comparing the cringe levels of 8 and 9 to 2 and 3.

Attack of the clones had the pure wtf of Anakin mass-murdering children and declaring that he'd rule the galaxy with an iron fist as an absolute tyrant. Some how that was the defining moment of their relationship and the point Padme 'gave into' her 'love' for him.

Its hard to top that moment as an absolute horror-show, and Lucas' frightening level of disconnect from the concept of romance and just... people in general.

---
The relative lack of romance in the prequels was actually a relief. The few moments they tried were kinda bad, but nowhere near as gut-wrenchingly awful as 2 and 3.

Yeah, that's common in speilberg/lucas movies.

For even worse cringe, look at the awful "indiana Jones and the temple of doom" (Spielberg finally apologized for this, many years later.)

Basically indy kidnaps a woman, threatens her with a knife in her side, drags her into extreme perial, even helps lock her in a bodfdage rack so she can be slowly lowered into lava and incinerated alive, then 'rescues" her from the danger and terror he put her in, and when she goes off on him about what she suffered because of him and walks away he uses his WHIP on her to DRAG her back to him, and she ends up willingly kissing him after the unimaginable terror he caused her?

Yeah, she should have pretended to kiss him, rammed her knee into his groin so hard his nads flew out his ears at about mach 3, reminded him as he lay on the ground in silent paralyzed agony he dragged her into that whole mess and she owes him nothing for 'saving ' her from a situation he put her in, went over to a british officer, batter her eyes, smiled and asked him if he could help a woman get to an american embassy. Maybe offering to sing for his troops for a lift. You know those british gentleman can't decline a woman in need of a little aid. Yeah, that's a stereotype, temple of doom was full of them. What's one more?

Honestly, that was the worst male female 'relationship" i think i ever saw. My god, it makes 50 shades of grey look like a perfectly normal healthy relationship.

One thing, tho. Many people consider the "i know" scene to be cringeworthy, and, well, yes, it was. But it was topped years later.

On the battlestar galactica remake laura rosayln finally tells adama "I love you".

he says "it's about time."

My mom (RIP ) was walking thru the room when he said that. She stopped, looked at the tv and said "She should have kicked him right in the balls for that."

Oddly enough, even tho the "it's about time" line on the face of it seems more cringe worthy than "I know." the way it was done was so much better and the characters so much better that it, somehow, managed to be less cringeworthy overall.

bat702 wrote:
Basically what was more cringey? to me episode 8 was more in the sense that Resistance fleet was so pathetic in comparison to size of the Star Wars galaxy

Episode was horrible in a lot of ways.. from the Star Destroyers all have a huge phallic like planet cracking mega-laser attached to them all, to Palpatine somehow still being alive, to Snoke being utterly worthless as an actual character.

The only saving grace to episode 8 was the scene where Rey and Kylo Ren fight Snoke and his royal guard

Not even that. The choreography was awful. If Snoke's guard were competent fighters you can identify three separate points where Rey SHOULD HAVE died, one within the first thirty seconds of the fight. Not watchin it frame-by-frame; as I was sitting there in the theater.

As far as 'most cringeworthy', I can only speak for myself. But for me it is Eight. It did the impossible. Walking into the movie I was excited to see where SW was going to go next and looked forward to seeing many more SW movies in the future.

Walking out I had zero interest in ever seeing another SW movie ever again.

And that was BEFORE I was told I was a racist misogynist pig for not liking it because (among other things) turning Finn into 'token black comic relief stereotype guy'.

I would say 9, primarily because of the horrible expansion of the Force. When you can project yourself to cause damage in remote locations, and teleport objects, it really is going to make it very difficult for subsequent films to find reasons the Sith don't just teleport a thermal detonator into the hero's bed while they're sleeping. Or for that matter, wreck up the flight controls of a fighter instead of spilling a lovely jar of marbles all over the floor.

Long range force teleports and force strikes are a terrible, terrible addition to the universe.

I would say the whole teleport thing was a weird bond between Kylo and Rey, but ya it was pretty absurd to see it teleport things across the galaxy and not just their weird mind meld situation. Wouldnt be surprised if Kylo got Rey pregnant somehow via the same method and we just didn't get to see the wet dream like event unfold via the cinema haha.. Im jk.. I hope..

Honestly, I am getting old. And expectations are lowering by the day.

So if it's just a binary 8 or 9 choice I will say 9 was better than 8. Yes it was an Eagles cover band playing the hits to a bar on a Wednesday night, but I find that superior to an almost-good, almost-great maybe, film whose script needed 2 more drafts.

The flaws in Last Jedi are many and, to its detriment, easily fixable. The slow motion chase, for example, could instead have been the Rebellion fleeing through hyperspace, having 5 minutes to catch their breath, then having to jump again as the FO arrives to kill them. (Think of the Battlestar Galactica episode 33). Their ships are running out of fuel, their hyperdrives overloading. A lot more tense and easier to explain than whatever the logic was of the chase. The rebels might have been unsure how the FO was tracking them, suspecting a traitor, thus Admiral whats-her-name keeping everyone in the dark and now the mutiny makes sense too. The Casino side-quest might have had a point.

Similarly the final battle might have been broadcast live around the galaxy as FO propaganda, but then done the opposite, the Rebels' courage inspiring resistance across the galaxy.

I liked the idea of Rey being no one, I liked them killing Snoke to return the focus to Kylo. I liked crazy old man Luke.

Even the hyperspace ram could have worked with a bit more handwaving. Han Solo could fly through a shield flicker because he was just that good. Build up Admiral whats-her-name as the only other pilot who could have pulled that off so her sacrifice is meaningful.

So I found 8 more frustrating just because I felt like a few hours with the script could have really made it a good film. It was like watching a talented team just fumble the whole game.

9 wasn't great but had enough crowd-pleasing moments like the Dunkirk fleet to make me smile. Palpatine back was good and gave us a clear villain across 9 movies. If only there'd been a clear direction for the sequel trilogy it could have been decent.

Low expectations from someone who saw Star Wars in the theater in 1977? Maybe. But I'll take my endorphins where I can get them.

PS The Scottsman has my vote for writing the next crop of Star Wars films.

Nine's issues came about mostly because of eight as you can tell that someone had been cutting inbetween the lines because the movie directors did not agree on a vision at all. Eight is pretty much the cause and effect worse of the three.

I feel like 9 had alot of plot holes, mostly in the sense that Palptatine definitely died in 6, and then making Snoke basically meaningless, however 9 was way more cinematic, I was actively cringing so hard throughout 8. The resistance was supposed to be this like grand-force that arised from a galaxy brought back together, instead the entire Resistance was just one capitol ship.

Episode 2/Episode 3 had personal writing/actor cringe. Basically its like watching a movie where none of the actors have any idea what's going on because theyre all just standing in front of green screens and given very poor direction, and the writing has so many just...awful, awful lines that are the main source of cringe.

Ep 8/Ep 9 have kind of 'meta movie cringe/plot cringe". They're both so painfully the new modern super-blockbuster designed by committee and recut/reshot/retweaked a billion times to the point where you've just got no clue as an audience member what's going on.

The actors are acting, but they're acting towards like 19 different plots youre seeing jumbled and spliced together into what a few focus groups thought would appeal to the most demographics, and you've got absolutely flying rodent gak moments like the aforementioned "apparently you can just destroy any spaceship ever by jumping to hyperspace' which absolutely make sense, physics-wise, but like...usually you don't explore that in science fiction universes? Like "if luke's X-wing can travel at faster than light speeds, couldn't they just fling an X-wing piloted by a droid into the death star? Anything moving faster than the speed of light would destroy anything made of matter but good." and the answer just has to be "shuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuushhhhhhhh"

 Matt Swain wrote:

For even worse cringe, look at the awful "indiana Jones and the temple of doom" (Spielberg finally apologized for this, many years later.)

Basically indy kidnaps a woman, threatens her with a knife in her side, drags her into extreme perial, even helps lock her in a bodfdage rack so she can be slowly lowered into lava and incinerated alive, then 'rescues" her from the danger and terror he put her in, and when she goes off on him about what she suffered because of him and walks away he uses his WHIP on her to DRAG her back to him, and she ends up willingly kissing him after the unimaginable terror he caused her?

To be fair to Lucas, that is pretty much how all "Pulp" movies and serials handled romance too. He was just following the template.

Arnold kidnaped a LOT of love interests back in the day.

bat702 wrote:
I honestly feel like the straight hotness of Padme/ Natalie Portman in her prime was amazing, she was basically like my goddess for a long time.

That's a little creepy, though irrelevant.

As far as killing younglings, it was really tragic for sure, but at the same time it would be "enough" basically to make Padme fall out of love with Anakin,

well, to be honest I was referring to 2, and his confession of murder of the Tuskens, but... honestly... I'm puzzled in what universe murdering children isn't 'enough' to make someone not be in love with the perpetrator. Actually, inconceivable is pretty much my take on that.

There's no rationale that makes just wandering in and slaughtering kids OK. There's no pass on that.
'Tragic' is running over a puppy. Deliberating travelling across a city for the sole purpose of murdering kids is purely monstrous.

 Matt Swain wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
the 8th movie of a triple trilogy is the first one that mentions fuel for ships and it's a major plot point? Luke's fighter effortlessly jumps from star system to star system with nary a thought for how much fuel it has in empire, suddenly a fleet is crippled buy fuel shortage. Waaay too late to bring that into the storyline by then especially since it was never even mentioned once in any of the movies before it.

After escaping Naboo with two Jedi, why did Queen Amidala's ship stop at Tatooine?

Their hyperdrive engine was damaged. They needed parts for the engine. not fuel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Episode_I_–_The_Phantom_Menace

Well snap, thats what I get for not rewatching before being all smug about it.

I know fuel gets brought up in the prequels though, where is it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bat702 wrote:
Im really surprised people are comparing the cringe levels of 8 and 9 to 2 and 3.

I don't argue that 2 and 3 were more "entertaining" and "cinematic;" However, from a cringe standpoint 8 and 9 were FAR more cringey. 8 and 9 had some of the biggest plot holes and ridiculous world breaking rules introduced, sure they had good production values, but people are clearly citing all sorts of cringe in this post that came from 8 and 9 without really giving any examples from 2 and 3. No one has even introduced the point in 8 where suddenly now Star-ships can hyper-space ram other vessels, or that the Resistance "leader" had to stay sacrifice herself to do it while if she was important she could have delegated the task to a volunteer or a freaking droid.

I actually really enjoyed Rogue One and Solo, and I feel really let down by Disney that 8 and 9 were just so freaking cringey.

Thats the beauty of subjective experience I guess. To me even the worse of the Sequels don't compare to Hayden going from 0 to Life as a House over the course of one speech in Attack of the Clones or Christopher Lee walking around a hovering Ewan McGregor while giving exposition and just the really ropey greenscreen that permeates all three of those movies. But take solace in the fact that some 20 years from now people will be telling you how secretly brilliant the porgs are or how the message of the repeating mirror scene wasn't actually completely discarded by making her Palpatine's grandkid after all.

Porgs are brilliant. That’s the end of it...

The 8th film is one of the worst movies I have ever had the misfortune to sit through

For me, TLJ was a deeply flawed movie that was enjoyable as a dumb space movie so long as I ignored its relationship to Star Wars (easier for me since Star Wars had been dead to me since TPM). But it was a movie.

TFA, especially the second half, was more of a collection of scenes that happened, lacking the pacing, structure, arcs or fundamental understanding of storytelling needed to be a movie. Combine that with the deliberate invocation of nostalgia, and the film feels like crude imitation of a film, a broom with a volleyball face dressed up like a movie.

TROS is the Cats of Star Wars movies, baffling choices piled ineptly on top of each other until all you can do is laugh. I feel bad for everyone involved in the film, except JJ Abrams.

Can we all finally agree that JJ Abrams is Not Very Good at His Job?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Can we all finally agree that JJ Abrams is Not Very Good at His Job?

Nah. Problems like these are big and complicated and are caused by a lot of different people having their fingers in the pie. In hindsight it wasn't fair to blame George for all the problems of the Prequels and it certainly isn't fair to lay all the problems of the sequels at the feet of one person.

Well, in the Star Wars universe, killing Tuskens was probably seen no differently than killing Coyotes in the western US today. Look at the way Lars (and family) references them in the movies and a few other references in other SW sourcebook.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Can we all finally agree that JJ Abrams is Not Very Good at His Job?

He's an ideas guy with a great eye for cinematography. He's great at selling people on intriguing ideas and flashy concepts. What he doesn't have is follow through or long term story telling chops. Honestly, I thought getting him to do 7 and ONLY 7 was the best decision Disney made. Going back to him to finish things up after Trevorrow fell through was easily one of the worst.

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Can we all finally agree that JJ Abrams is Not Very Good at His Job?

Nah. Problems like these are big and complicated and are caused by a lot of different people having their fingers in the pie. In hindsight it wasn't fair to blame George for all the problems of the Prequels and it certainly isn't fair to lay all the problems of the sequels at the feet of one person.

And the Star Trek reboot?

I really liked his Star Trek films.

 Flinty wrote:
I really liked his Star Trek films.

Yep they were great fun - the real issue was the piss poor job Rian Johnson made of every single aspect of his job.

 Matt Swain wrote:

I mean, 8 had those absolutely ridiculous and incredibly stupid bombers, i'm not even going to start on what was wrong with them.

What was wrong with them? Because, yknow, every complaint I've seen about them to date ignores the fact that the same complaint is present in virtually every preceding Star Wars film.

Also, 8 makes fuel a major issue for the first time. the 8th movie of a triple trilogy is the first one that mentions fuel for ships and it's a major plot point?

So you've never watched The Clone Wars or read some of the most important EU novels of old, then? Because there have been several different and distinct fuel types in the past that served as major plot points in the EU. Star Wars fans have always said they wanted the movies to be more reflective of lore from outside of the films...

Also, hyperspace ramming? Why not use it against a death star if it can be done? Again a major plot point that should have been mentioned long ago.

Also covered in previous non-film Star Wars media.

The way the falcon was hyperskipping around. Yeesh, In the first movie solo said it took careful calculations to make a jump, now they're just a skippin' along at random, right into an inhabited planet's atmosphere even. Talk about star trek having consistency issues!

Also an issue (though not as extreme) in The Force Awakens.

So now star destroyers have planet destroyer weapons. Great, I mean i know tech advances but the smallest planet destroyer we saw was the death star mk 1, now we've got planet killers on star destroyers, that's like what? reducing the size by a factor of 10,000 or so? If they had that why bother with starkiller base in the first sequel, it makes zero sens..oh, star wars. right.

It was a new class of Star Destroyer that happens to look more or less identical to the ones in the original trilogy, only about 2-3x larger.

or that the Resistance "leader" had to stay sacrifice herself to do it while if she was important she could have delegated the task to a volunteer or a freaking droid.

That misses the point by a lot more than 12 parsecs.

I think TFA being... fine? Pretty good? Some form of decent? Anyway, I think TFA being a competent movie that doesn't make us mad or confuse the hell out of us was seen as a sign that we could sort the star wars movies into three tiers: 4-6, which were great, the new ones, were are decent, and the prequels, which remain trash.

Well... thats an opinion... I guess....

Attack of the clones had the pure wtf of Anakin mass-murdering children and declaring that he'd rule the galaxy with an iron fist as an absolute tyrant.

Thats Revenge of the Sith. Why is this a wtf moment? We knew he would become Darth Vader, and we know that Darth Vader kills pretty indiscriminately and also verbatim said the same thing to his son.

I think Ep 9 is worse purely on the basis that the opening 10 minutes of the movie literally has Poe saying "Somehow, Palpatine came back".

I prefer 8, but is that really worse than the fact that within the opening 10 minutes of 8 Poe literally says "Look, I can't hold forever. If you reach him, tell him Leia has an urgent message for him about his mother."?

Also, love how they made force lightning, an advanced Sith technique that Darth Maul never used despite being a Sith himself, suddenly accessible because Rey got PMS/angry during her tug of war with Kylo Ren. Wtf. At least have her deal with consequences by letting Chewie die from that.

The treatment of force abilities as discrete techniques with specific names that only certain individuals have access to is a creation of the fandom that has arisen as a result of a misconstrued understanding of its use in tabletop and video game mechanics. You will note that no force user ever once refers to any sort of ability by name or treats it as a video game skill that they unlock as they level up - you never once hear a jedi say "I'll use force speed to get beyond him and then hit him with a force push!" or anything to that effect. The only time any force ability is ever really given a name that I can think of is the jedi mind trick - but even then its only ever referred to as such by people who aren't force users. In fact, the entire existence of the Force as a tool that can be wielded is essentially premised on the idea that those who are capable of manipulating it can use it to do basically anything. In short, your displeasure with this is more of a you problem than it is a star wars problem.

Basically indy kidnaps a woman, threatens her with a knife in her side, drags her into extreme perial, even helps lock her in a bodfdage rack so she can be slowly lowered into lava and incinerated alive, then 'rescues" her from the danger and terror he put her in, and when she goes off on him about what she suffered because of him and walks away he uses his WHIP on her to DRAG her back to him, and she ends up willingly kissing him after the unimaginable terror he caused her?

To be fair thats the same exact problematic cringey gak that was common to the pulp serials which inspired the Indiana Jones. Its faithfulness to the source material.

You've also basically described the first 20+ James Bond movies to a tee.

One thing, tho. Many people consider the "i know" scene to be cringeworthy, and, well, yes, it was. But it was topped years later.

I have never met a single damned person in my life who thinks that scene is cringeworthy. Overwhelmingly its considered one of the best moments of improv in cinema history.

I would say 9, primarily because of the horrible expansion of the Force. When you can project yourself to cause damage in remote locations, and teleport objects, it really is going to make it very difficult for subsequent films to find reasons the Sith don't just teleport a thermal detonator into the hero's bed while they're sleeping. Or for that matter, wreck up the flight controls of a fighter instead of spilling a lovely jar of marbles all over the floor.

Long range force teleports and force strikes are a terrible, terrible addition to the universe.

Im just grateful it wasn't time travel - Filoni came pretty close to ruining that one for me.

The slow motion chase, for example, could instead have been the Rebellion fleeing through hyperspace, having 5 minutes to catch their breath, then having to jump again as the FO arrives to kill them. (Think of the Battlestar Galactica episode 33).

It was already a Battlestar Galactica episode, just instead of trying to constantly jump away from the pursuers they decided to proceed at sublight because reasons.

PS The Scottsman has my vote for writing the next crop of Star Wars films.

seconded.

Nine's issues came about mostly because of eight as you can tell that someone had been cutting inbetween the lines because the movie directors did not agree on a vision at all. Eight is pretty much the cause and effect worse of the three.

That was a choice made by 9s director (more likely by its producers) it has nothing to do with 8. We saw what 9 could have been and it was a cohesive and natural progression of the story... Disney fired the director and brought in a talentless hack at the last minute to rewrite the story virtually from scratch. In that talentless hacks defense though, they then forced him to rewrite about half of it while he was in the middle of filming.

The resistance was supposed to be this like grand-force that arised from a galaxy brought back together, instead the entire Resistance was just one capitol ship.

The resistance was never presented as any such thing, in fact from the very beginning we are told that they are a small ragtag group of guerillas with little support. Also, to be fair, the extent of the Resistance that we see in Episode 8 is not much different from the extent of the Resistance that we see in Episode 7, or 4, or for that matter 5. In fact, the Resistance is arguably more powerful, because they have one ship thats several times larger than the largest ship we had seen the rebels use in the original trilogy, and the other 3 ships serving alongside it are likewise significantly larger and more capable than the majority of rebel vessels seen previously.

well, to be honest I was referring to 2, and his confession of murder of the Tuskens, but... honestly... I'm puzzled in what universe murdering children isn't 'enough' to make someone not be in love with the perpetrator. Actually, inconceivable is pretty much my take on that.

There's no rationale that makes just wandering in and slaughtering kids OK. There's no pass on that.
'Tragic' is running over a puppy. Deliberating travelling across a city for the sole purpose of murdering kids is purely monstrous.

If you adopt the in-universe viewpoint that the Tuskens are little more than wild animals then slaughtering a tusken village is little more than running over several puppies. Also lets be clear - Anakin set out to save his mother, not to kill kids. It was only after he found his mom dead that he slaughtered the village, not just the kids, but the women and men too. While thats worse, its also "in the moment" easier to forgive because its your romantic interest acting out in grief rather than being a particularly sadistic donkey-cave getting his jollies by murdering small children.

Porgs are brilliant.

Hands down the greatest thing to ever come out of Star Wars, only baby Yoda comes close.

TFA, especially the second half, was more of a collection of scenes that happened, lacking the pacing, structure, arcs or fundamental understanding of storytelling needed to be a movie. Combine that with the deliberate invocation of nostalgia, and the film feels like crude imitation of a film, a broom with a volleyball face dressed up like a movie.

Can we all finally agree that JJ Abrams is Not Very Good at His Job?

I'm honestly surprised that people seem to think otherwise. The moment he was announced as director of TFA I had a bad feeling about how things were going to go, while everyone else was ecstatic as though his travesty of a Star Trek film and Lost never happened.

the real issue was the piss poor job Rian Johnson made of every single aspect of his job.

Aside from the fact that he never worked on Star Trek, i've seen every one of Johnsons films and I have to say hes an incredible filmmaker in every respect. If Episode 8 is the worst hes ever done, then hes far and away one of the best filmmakers on earth, period. The problem with 8 isn't Johnson, its Star Wars fans not knowing what they want and rejecting what they said they wanted when its given to them (not unlike a small petulant child).

Cringe more? 8, easily. It's a great idea for a movie wrapped up and delivered as a very bad movie. So many times it seems to be doing something interesting then.. nope, can't have any coherency, that would be predictable and we're here to smash the mould. But at least 8 tried.

9 isn't cringe worthy. It doesn't score that high. It is contemptuous. It is pathetic. I didn't cringe watching 9 because I didn't care.

And I'm only saying 8 because I wasn't given the option of 7 - crappy, lazy nostalgia crap makes me cringe more than anything 8 did, even though 7 is the better film.

Attack of the clones had the pure wtf of Anakin mass-murdering children and declaring that he'd rule the galaxy with an iron fist as an absolute tyrant.


Thats Revenge of the Sith. Why is this a wtf moment? We knew he would become Darth Vader, and we know that Darth Vader kills pretty indiscriminately and also verbatim said the same thing to his son.

Why in the world did you cut my quote short?
"Some how that was the defining moment of their relationship and the point Padme 'gave into' her 'love' for him." That's _kind of_ relevant. The issue isn't 'surprise, he's Darth Vader.' That isn't the complaint. Its that his romantic arc with this woman culminates in a confession of mass murder, and somehow she's OK with that. And he also mentions (again) his desire to rule the galaxy as an iron fisted tyrant, but her entire character is centered around a drive for democratic governance, which he considers worthless and stupid. Why is she interested in him again? Why does she not immediately walk the hell out and leave him stranded?



And also, again, no. The _first time_ he mass-murdered children was Attack of the Clones, and tells her about it. And she's somehow not horrified, but filled with sympathy. And somehow the second time he does it, she's surprised.