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Started playing w40k at 13. Had no problems with the lore or gaming aspect of the game. And I do have behavioral disorder.




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Voss 798741 11139266 wrote:Though I don't think games and fiction are really that effective at that in any meaningful way, and I don't (hopefully obviously) advocate actually indoctrinating children.

The cost over time and the time requiered to spend painting does wonderful things to make people that age not want to go on with the hobby. There are very few people where indoctrination can win over the monetary costs of the stuff. Specially when the same money can buy you other things, that are easier and less time consuming to use, with far less NPE.

I want to buy my friend’s sprog a gift. Being sensible, I check with the parent if what I’ve got in mind is appropriate (important when you’ve the parenting instinct of a rock)

They are happy to receive said gift.

Others aren’t happy. Others can sod off and keep their nose out of something which is none of their business.

12 year olds are pretty dumb but not so dumb that playing 40k is going to traumatise them or turn them into mini-fash. They've got the horrors of teenage and young adult years to look forward to that are going to traumatise them waaaaayy more than "man gets torso exploded".

Given the population of these forums I have a hard time imagining much else besides sensitive 12 year olds.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Given the population of these forums I have a hard time imagining much else besides sensitive 12 year olds.

Outstanding, have an exalt!

People aren't seriously worried about 40k "indoctrinating" a kid into "fascism"?

Are they also worried about rock and roll music and D&D?

There's a series of books aimed at 9 year olds, remember.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
People aren't seriously worried about 40k "indoctrinating" a kid into "fascism"?

Are they also worried about rock and roll music and D&D?

no, I think its a lot more likely that this is a pretty standard "nooooo its too violent for my young booooooooooy"

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
People aren't seriously worried about 40k "indoctrinating" a kid into "fascism"?

Just encourage the kid choosing a chaos or xeno faction to avoid indoctrination into fascism .

Isn't the wester world full of gang violance, constant stormings of things, month or year long protests? If you see yellow vests protest and fight witht he police twice a weak for two years, what kind of a thing in w40k lore can suprise or shock you? And that is assuming you ignore history lessons somehow and don't know a thing about the place you live in.

Near where I live, I can find, more or less, everything that happens in w40k lore starting with regular war stuff, and ending with soldiers being friendly with civilians in their free time.


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 Blackie wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
People aren't seriously worried about 40k "indoctrinating" a kid into "fascism"?

Just encourage the kid choosing a chaos or xeno faction to avoid indoctrination into fascism .

Yes, because as we all know race based nationalism, that something like eldar follow, is so much better and different, specially in how it is being implemented.

I don't even get why people call w40k fasist. There are no union laws in w40k lore, there sure as hell is no separation of church and state, or special labour courts. Even the simbolism is different, maybe excluding the eagle. But if the eagle is a fasist sign then huge chunks of europe are in big trouble.

Karol wrote:


Yes, because as we all know race based nationalism, that something like eldar follow, is so much better and different, specially in how it is being implemented.

I don't even get why people call w40k fasist. There are no union laws in w40k lore, there sure as hell is no separation of church and state, or special labour courts. Even the simbolism is different, maybe excluding the eagle. But if the eagle is a fasist sign then huge chunks of europe are in big trouble.

Did a Ministorum Preacher write this?

For feths sake.

Those litteraly do not exist. Plus you see that I wrote it. This is a stupid question.

Karol wrote:
Those litteraly do not exist. Plus you see that I wrote it. This is a stupid question.

So is asking why a government that explicitly keeps it's population ignorant and uneducated so as to work them to death better, maintains control on said populace via direct military intervention, enforces purity codes in all aspects of life, deifies the state and sees anything outside itself as impure and needing domination might possibly be considered fascist.

But here we are.

Just buy him a different, better board game.

Not worth potentially upsetting your family just because you want somebody else to talk Warhammer with.

I ran a school gaming club waaaay back when I was a teacher. For many kids, it's a great experience.

It gets them socialising away from the computer and TV. Not just the gaming, but painting sessions and the like.

Painting is still magical to a 12-yr old. Heck, I'm 52 and it's still magical to me. I mentored kids with ADHD, who couldn't sit still or stay quiet in a classroom for ten minutes, but could focus on painting a figure for nearly 2 hours.

Gets them thinking, reading, doing mental arithmetic.

Making model scenery is a good practical experience. Many schools today concentrate on design and costing more than physically making stuff (cheaper and easier to grade).

I'd worry that painting the sheer number of figures in a starter box might put him off - maybe the Kill Team rules, the paint set and a couple of boxes of troops are a better initial starting point?

On the other hand, the snapfit models are easier, BSF is a great game, and modern GW paints are really easy to use. I started painting minis with enamels, using turpentine to clean them!

Yeah, my 12 year old has played at his school gaming club for a year now. Loves his Necron army.

My 9 year old had a brief flurry of interest when I said he could have the Space Marine half of Indomitus, but hasn't really got into it.

I think the game has arguably changed a lot over the years so that 12-13 year olds are probably the prime market. A lot of the stuff that was 'unacceptable' before (nudey miniatures etc.) has been removed and they're probably familiar with the universe from video games and the like. And you have to go digging down into the background to find anything that is contentious, otherwise it's just aliens, robots and laser guns.

I would say most 12-year olds have seen and been exposed to hell of a lot worse, playing GTA and the like. There are a lot of benefits too (learning the rules, concentration for painting etc. as Momotaro has pointed out). When I worked in stores many years ago I found the best sales line, certainly to older adults, was "get them to do something other than play video games" so I think it might actually go down well.

I don’t know how seriously they’ll take this. But the box does say 12+ so the manufacturer assessed that it was appropriate material for a 12 year old. I think it’s hilarious considering most parents don’t care if their kids play games rated for adults only.

As for the game themes, I was reading myths like Leda and the Swan from about the age of 8-10.

Realising that the Greek Gods are a bunch of... not pleasant people... is an important moment in any young person's development. So it is with the Imperium.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
People aren't seriously worried about 40k "indoctrinating" a kid into "fascism"?

Are they also worried about rock and roll music and D&D?

You must be avoiding the 40k background subforum. Its been a constant litany for the last 6-9 months. Not everyone (or even a majority), but there are enough posters obsessed with the concept that it comes up a lot.

Maybe find out what the 12 year old actually likes and is into before buying them a gift?

Perhaps the parents are pretty savvy and understand the costs involved.
Maybe they'd rather their child not be asking for box after box of figures that cost in the range of a PS4/5 game. Especially as they learn of GW's fomo techniques, the kid will be crying on pre-order day as things are gone in minutes. No waiting for birthdays or Christmas for stuff anymore.
Have you thought it's maybe about the monetary implications rather than the horrible gory 40k background?

Voss wrote:
You must be avoiding the 40k background subforum. Its been a constant litany for the last 6-9 months. Not everyone (or even a majority), but there are enough posters obsessed with the concept that it comes up a lot.

They're the same type of people who think that "I think Darth Vader is cool" actually means "I completely agree, support and endorse Darth Vader's actions during the course of the Star Wars movies. Killing children is A-OK in my books!", that is to say, they're people who aren't worth listening to as they are incapable of separating fiction from reality.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Voss wrote:
You must be avoiding the 40k background subforum. Its been a constant litany for the last 6-9 months. Not everyone (or even a majority), but there are enough posters obsessed with the concept that it comes up a lot.

They're the same type of people who think that "I think Darth Vader is cool" actually means "I completely agree, support and endorse Darth Vader's actions during the course of the Star Wars movies. Killing children is A-OK in my books!", that is to say, they're people who aren't worth listening to as they are incapable of separating fiction from reality.

We may not agree with much in terms of the game itself, but hot damn I agree with this!

There comes a point in everyone's life when they have to decide if they abide by their own convictions or the convictions of others.

Decide for yourself if the 12 year old would enjoy the gift and whether or not the gift is somehow harmful. Go from there and good luck!

 the_scotsman wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
People aren't seriously worried about 40k "indoctrinating" a kid into "fascism"?

Are they also worried about rock and roll music and D&D?

no, I think its a lot more likely that this is a pretty standard "nooooo its too violent for my young booooooooooy"

To be fair you do get people who think the Imperium is unironically awesome and who think that we need a God Emperor of our own, but yeah I figure the main concern for a 12 year old would be the uber-violence and maybe S&M on the Slaaneshi-side, but even then they'd have to be hunting down the deeper parts of the lore and video games to even encounter that. It's a table top game, they're going to imagine most of it within their own worldview.

There's certainly worse gifts, there's certainly better gifts but that is a subjective case by case situation.

Stop trying so hard to get somebody else's kid interested in what you like. I'm not trying to be mean, but it kind of seems like you want validation more than anything else. I just don't see the need to insist and persist on giving a gift that the parents don't want you to give. Respect their decision and move on.

If you want to buy him a game that is actually good (and not cumbersome, boring and tedious GW-style), take a look at

-Clank!
-Sleeping Gods
-Gloomhaven:Jaws of the Lion
-Undaunted:Normandy
-Blood Rage / Rising Sun
-SW:Rebellion
-Marvel United
-Zombicide (a good example of a silly, random game a la GW, but without lenghty, boring upkeep of GW games)

All should be ok for this age, especially if he's from a family of boardgamers.

If you think it's ok to try something darker

-Tainted Grail
-Cthulhu: Death may Die
-Machina Arcana

I didn't list any euro-style games because I feel as if you're aiming at more adventure/conflict, but that's another immense world of excellent games to explore.

I started playing 40k in 8th grade (which is 12 I believe) without any adult supervision and I am a successful lawyer with my own practice (not to brag). I think the kid will be fine