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I think a good chunk of the player base transitioning to "FW" from China and Russia over the past few years is the real reason that FW is ending. Maybe its different in other parts of the world, but round here there are virtually no genuine FW models on the tables.

Can I ask where this notion of FW "ending" is coming from? Is it because there have been lots of product problems during Covid?

 Gert wrote:
Can I ask where this notion of FW "ending" is coming from? Is it because there have been lots of product problems during Covid?

At least for orks two thirds of their line has disappeared and more keep disappearing every few months, it's similar for other armies. In addition I think the last 40k release that wasn't just a 30k carry-over was the primaris junk freighter.

Unless they suddenly start releasing kits, the trend is clearly moving towards eventually everything 40k being gone.

I have the feeling people still don't recognize the specialist games as Forgeworld. Since the first HH plastic boxes we know that FW does plastic, too. Their AoS and 40K lines are afterthoughts nowadays, merely getting produced until the mold breaks. If HH went to plastic it wouldn't change anything, because it would still be FW. If HH moved to GW it wouldn't mean much as well, it would merely be a late exchange for Lotr .

 Jidmah wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Can I ask where this notion of FW "ending" is coming from? Is it because there have been lots of product problems during Covid?

At least for orks two thirds of their line has disappeared and more keep disappearing every few months, it's similar for other armies. In addition I think the last 40k release that wasn't just a 30k carry-over was the primaris junk freighter.

Unless they suddenly start releasing kits, the trend is clearly moving towards eventually everything 40k being gone.

I don't think thats FW ending so much as FW transitioning. The plan for FW seems to be moving it to handling specialist games and away from "niche 40k products"

If there is no overlap anymore, why not just make them a regular part of GW?

 Jidmah wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Can I ask where this notion of FW "ending" is coming from? Is it because there have been lots of product problems during Covid?

At least for orks two thirds of their line has disappeared and more keep disappearing every few months, it's similar for other armies. In addition I think the last 40k release that wasn't just a 30k carry-over was the primaris junk freighter.

Unless they suddenly start releasing kits, the trend is clearly moving towards eventually everything 40k being gone.

Hmmm....can't remember if the Astraeus (or primaris junk freighter) or Necron Seraptek Construct was the most recent 40k fw model. Either way, I'd say their 40k stuff will be along those lines: big, expensive, low production models. For 30k, I'd say they'll keep doing the Legion specific stuff, like dreadnoughts. Those sell plenty. I don't know any Night Lords player who'd rather have a generic plastic Contemptor instead of the Night Lords Contemptor that fw sells. That thing just screams "Eighth Legion", as the others do for their own respective Legions. Those are the only Legion specific models available for most CSM Legions, unless you're one of the "Anointed Legions".

No, they will keep on living from Specialist Games/Heresy.
And, seeing what garbage of a game systems both 40k/AoS are now, I'm pretty happy that they don't make models for them anymore.

 Jidmah wrote:
If there is no overlap anymore, why not just make them a regular part of GW?

They are a regular part of GW, that's why you can buy the Specialist Games on the GW website.

They probably have legal issues with dropping the Forge World name. Someone would try to snatch it up if they did away with the group. Keeping them alive means they could always change the role of Forge World without having to come up with a new name.

Pointer5 wrote:
They probably have legal issues with dropping the Forge World name. Someone would try to snatch it up if they did away with the group. Keeping them alive means they could always change the role of Forge World without having to come up with a new name.

GW retains trademarks on loads of things they don't use. I dare you to try and release a game called "Mordheim".

Apple fox wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Forgeworld currently sell about 3 models I'd be interested in purchasing, so from my perspective they're practically closed already.

I am curious what they are? since this is common sentiment I have seen. I would say most players here feel like there is nothing really made for them so ignore forgeworld. I am the only person to my known that has any of the super heavy tanks/aircraft and they are display only.

For me, there used to be lots, but now almost all of them are gone to be replaced with more Legion Specific Contemptor Dreadnought Bodies [seriously, these things don't even have different rules! What happened to decorating your things yourself to make them uniquely yours?]

I'm always on the fence about getting the ones that I like that are still left [Marcharius Vanquisher and Cyclops Tracked Bomb], because on one hand I never got the other ones and now I can't, but also on the other hand, only the Medusa Siege Gun I feel really bad about never getting, and it would be a paperweight now since it lost it's rules in 6th edition.

The Marcharius is probably "safe" to get, the Tracked Bomb feels like something they could just decide "nope" on and disappear.

The loss of the Imperial Armour series to drive new model production that isn't 40k related definitely doesn't help, since the closed and tightly written (for warhammer at least) campaigns they covered were able to highlight certain factions that are overlooked in the larger 40k game, stuff like Corsairs for Eldar, Dred Mobs/Armoured Krumpany for Orks, DKoK and other regiments, and other cool stuff like the different canoptek constructs for Necrons.

Now that they're basically just a 30K vending machine, they don't have much to offer for the typical warhammer consumer and the worst part is not only the cut model lines, but also the fact that you have increased competition from both recasters AND legitimate resin competitors that do a way better job at reasonable prices (i.e. Kromlech and Artel W come to mind). No surprise to see FW's decline when it comes that.

 Gert wrote:
Can I ask where this notion of FW "ending" is coming from? Is it because there have been lots of product problems during Covid?

A lot of people perceived HH not moving over to 8th ruleset as a sort of weird betrayal, because a lot of people came back for 8th. It's a sort of weird reflex now that "GW has changed!" to find a reason to sing their praises. Ever since then people have been desperately hoping/preaching Forge World is going to be shut down any day now.

Specialist Games are doing well and pretty much every new pre-order FW puts up goes out of stock within the day. MESBG hasn't done so well since Return of the King (even if it's nowhere near the success it was then and never will be again), especially after GW completely botched it's handling of The Hobbit period. Titanicus, Blood Bowl and seemingly Necromunda are all doing very well. The two weak links are Aeronautica Imperialis (dead on arrival) and Horus Heresy, but now there's a large boxset full of plastic Marines on the horizon so it's inevitably going to be catapulted back up just from the perception of actually getting support.

I think they'll keep Forgeworld around for LotR, Necromunda, Blood Bowl etc. even if 30K makes the move to plastic (which would be great).

But to be honest I wouldn't be sad to see FW go. Their models are great but the resin is horrible. Resin is just not a nice material to make miniatures from. It isn't very durable, it snaps, bends and warps easily, it is difficult and time-consuming to work with, resin dust is a big health hazard, paint doesn't adhere to it as well as it does to plastic, plastic solvent glues don't work with it and there is a whole bunch of other issues that resin has compared to plastic.

And in this day and age when you can have just as much if not more detail in plastic than you can have in resin, there really is no excuse anymore to still stick with producing resin miniatures.

I'd like to see Forgeworld move to plastic and focus more on what they did before 30K, which is selling more niche miniatures for premium prices (I mean, they still do that, but most of what they produce is just 30K stuff nowadays). Aside from the occasional LotR miniature, FW currently just doesn't have a lot to offer to me. I am not interested in 30K, I don't play Necromunda or Blood Bowl and as long as they stay in resin I am not going to buy big 40K things like that Gargantuan Squiggoth (I really want to have one since it is awesome and beautiful, but the idea of working with such a massive miniature in resin is discouraging. I hate having to pin things and using epoxy. Forget about plastic Thunderhawk. Plastic Squiggoth when?).

Oh yeah, and the fact that FW units have a high chance of becoming unsupported in the near future also is not very encouraging.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I think they'll keep Forgeworld around for LotR, Necromunda, Blood Bowl etc. even if 30K makes the move to plastic (which would be great).

But to be honest I wouldn't be sad to see FW go. Their models are great but the resin is horrible. Resin is just not a nice material to make miniatures from. It isn't very durable, it snaps, bends and warps easily, it is difficult and time-consuming to work with, resin dust is a big health hazard, paint doesn't adhere to it as well as it does to plastic, plastic solvent glues don't work with it and there is a whole bunch of other issues that resin has compared to plastic.

And in this day and age when you can have just as much if not more detail in plastic than you can have in resin, there really is no excuse anymore to still stick with producing resin miniatures.

I'd like to see Forgeworld move to plastic and focus more on what they did before 30K, which is selling more niche miniatures for premium prices (I mean, they still do that, but most of what they produce is just 30K stuff nowadays). Aside from the occasional LotR miniature, FW currently just doesn't have a lot to offer to me. I am not interested in 30K, I don't play Necromunda or Blood Bowl and as long as they stay in resin I am not going to buy big 40K things like that Gargantuan Squiggoth (I really want to have one since it is awesome and beautiful, but the idea of working with such a massive miniature in resin is discouraging. I hate having to pin things and using epoxy. Forget about plastic Thunderhawk. Plastic Squiggoth when?).

Oh yeah, and the fact that FW units have a high chance of becoming unsupported in the near future also is not very encouraging.

Resin is a perfectly fine material to make miniatures out of, and once you step out of the GW bubble you'll find that it's more common in miniature wargaming than you might think. Just off the top of my head, Kromlech, Victoria Miniatures, Artel W, and Privateer Press all heavily feature resin in their miniature lines.
It's not that difficult to work with, it's just a different material from plastic.

As for "no excuse to stick with resin miniatures when plastic is available" - plastic molding is still expensive. If you can't afford the very high upfront costs for plastic production, you use resin. Plastic also still has some limitations like undercuts that resin doesn't.

Forge World right now is largely producing a lot of resin product in the form of weapon upgrades, special units for 30K, primarchs, and so on. And it seems to me that the volume of sales may not quite be there to make molds for each and every one of those products to produce them in plastic. If it came down to a choice of "produce all of your current content in plastic" or "eliminate unit upgrades, resin characters, and big resin vehicles altogether", then GW may just axe all of those lines rather than taking the risk and investing in plastic molds. FW literally sells hundreds of products in resin, many of them very, very specific items. How many Sons of Horus players are out there to make it worth producing Horus Lupercal as a plastic mini? Probably not enough to recoup the investment of making those molds.

Forge World also allows GW to take a risk on producing a mini or line of minis in resin - if they sell well enough, it allows them to reevaluate and potentially make them in plastic.

Let's be honest, you may have just as well said that you don't like working with resin, so you personally are ok if FW ends up going away.

 Mr. Grey wrote:

Resin is a perfectly fine material to make miniatures out of, and once you step out of the GW bubble you'll find that it's more common in miniature wargaming than you might think. Just off the top of my head, Kromlech, Victoria Miniatures, Artel W, and Privateer Press all heavily feature resin in their miniature lines.
It's not that difficult to work with, it's just a different material from plastic.

As for "no excuse to stick with resin miniatures when plastic is available" - plastic molding is still expensive. If you can't afford the very high upfront costs for plastic production, you use resin. Plastic also still has some limitations like undercuts that resin doesn't.

As for "no excuse to stick with resin miniatures when plastic is available" - plastic molding is still expensive. If you can't afford the very high upfront costs for plastic production, you use resin. Plastic also still has some limitations like undercuts that resin doesn't.

Forge World right now is largely producing a lot of resin product in the form of weapon upgrades, special units for 30K, primarchs, and so on. And it seems to me that the volume of sales may not quite be there to make molds for each and every one of those products to produce them in plastic. If it came down to a choice of "produce all of your current content in plastic" or "eliminate unit upgrades, resin characters, and big resin vehicles altogether", then GW may just axe all of those lines rather than taking the risk and investing in plastic molds. FW literally sells hundreds of products in resin, many of them very, very specific items. How many Sons of Horus players are out there to make it worth producing Horus Lupercal as a plastic mini? Probably not enough to recoup the investment of making those molds.

Forge World also allows GW to take a risk on producing a mini or line of minis in resin - if they sell well enough, it allows them to reevaluate and potentially make them in plastic.

Resin requires a lot more work. To assemble a plastic model, all you need is a pair of clippers, a hobby knife and plastic solvent glue (sand paper or a file are also useful). With resin, the difference is not that big for smaller models, but it does require extra work. Resin is much more prone to warping and bending, so it is likely you'll need to straighten parts out first. You will also need to fill in gaps with liquid green stuff, since you can't use a solvent glue to weld the parts together like you can with plastic. And when cleaning up your model with the hobby knife or sandpaper you get resin flakes and dust and you don't want to breathe that stuff in.

But the real pain with resin is in larger models. With large resin models with heavy parts you can't just rely on superglue to keep everything together. You will need to pin parts together (which requires drilling, meaning you need more tools and produce large quantities of harmful dust) and use an epoxy glue and epoxy is just a hassle to work with compared to the ease of super or solvent glue. With large plastic kits there is no need for any of that additional hassle since you can just weld the parts together to get a really strong bond.

And imho the few advantages of resin don't really make up for the fragility of the models and the reduced quality you sometimes get due to worn molds. Especially because you can work around the limitations of plastic with clever part design.

You do have a valid point concerning the costs of plastic molding vs resin, but we don't really have any number on FW sales to estimate whether or not it would be worth for GW to transition over to plastic. It is pure speculation, but I'd wager that at least their more popular 40K stuff sells enough for plastic molding to be profitable.

 Mr. Grey wrote:
Let's be honest, you may have just as well said that you don't like working with resin, so you personally are ok if FW ends up going away.

While I don't like working with resin I have no problem doing it if the miniature is worth it. I have bought plenty of resin miniatures over the years from GW, Forgeworld, Hawk Wargames and Spartan Games (may they rest in peace). But as it stands now I am unlikely to buy any more FW miniatures because they just don't produce anything that I really feel I have to add to my collection. Most of the stuff they sell is for games for which I lack the time and money (30K, Blood Bowl or Necromunda), and a lot of the 40k stuff they sell that I am interested in is big heavy resin kits like the Gargantuan Squiggoth. I have bad experiences with big resin kits so I am not going to spend a lot of money just to get an un-fun experience. I would have bought more Forgeworld if they either made more 40K stuff or if they made more plastic stuff. But seeing as they do neither, I personally (from my own, selfish point of view) would not miss Forgeworld if they disappeared. Especially not if it meant that some of their kits would make the jump to plastic (which I then might buy).
Of course, the situation for people who do play 30K or specialist games is very different.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
...But the real pain with resin is in larger models. With large resin models with heavy parts you can't just rely on superglue to keep everything together. You will need to pin parts together (which requires drilling, meaning you need more tools and produce large quantities of harmful dust) and use an epoxy glue and epoxy is just a hassle to work with compared to the ease of super or solvent glue. With large plastic kits there is no need for any of that additional hassle since you can just weld the parts together to get a really strong bond...

Eh, it really depends. Things like dragons or Revenants with long spindly bits and small areas of contact sure, but I've found the tanks often no harder to build than any plastic mini. The areas of contact are big enough you can just use superglue, and the quality control has gotten a lot better since early FW.