Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
From a business standpoint, given that there's no guarantees, it's better to leave money on the table than lose money by over-producing and having wastage.
Look I understand GW wanted to avoid another situation like the Hobbit limited edition or Dreadfleet but those were 10+ years ago. Box sets that sell out in minutes and disappear forever means money is left on the table and that ill will among fans is generated.
Now maybe GW can keep this up, maybe the next box will be an Inquisition band vs Space Pirates or some other combination of long-awaited models that will also be snatched up in minutes, but it's just not a good plan.
(That reminds me, Arbites vs Dark Eldar is such a random combo, imagine if it had been Arbites vs escaped Space Criminals, a psyker, a mutant cannibal dude, some random desperados, man that would have been awesome)
This is box 3 of the Kill Team Space Hulk games, and Kill Team box 12? whatever. How can they not have a good feel for demand by now?
From a business standpoint, given that there's no guarantees, it's better to leave money on the table than lose money by over-producing and having wastage.
Look I understand GW wanted to avoid another situation like the Hobbit limited edition or Dreadfleet but those were 10+ years ago. Box sets that sell out in minutes and disappear forever means money is left on the table and that ill will among fans is generated.
Now maybe GW can keep this up, maybe the next box will be an Inquisition band vs Space Pirates or some other combination of long-awaited models that will also be snatched up in minutes, but it's just not a good plan.
(That reminds me, Arbites vs Dark Eldar is such a random combo, imagine if it had been Arbites vs escaped Space Criminals, a psyker, a mutant cannibal dude, some random desperados, man that would have been awesome)
This is box 3 of the Kill Team Space Hulk games, and Kill Team box 12? whatever. How can they not have a good feel for demand by now?
But this isn’t the same thing, this is an early release of stuff that will be generally available soon just as individual kits. This is a hype launch, so selling out adds to the hype.
The bigger worry is that they can’t keep stuff in stock when it’s generally released, all the kill teams are in and out of stock, that speaks of bigger supply and distribution issues.
tauist wrote: GW doesn't care? I disagree. Most of the preorder items released this week sold out inside a business day. That's a great day for any business! They will be popping off some champagne and dishing out free pastries at the office breakroom come Monday
And yet I would have bought a copy if it was still available. Instead, I’ve spent that money on products by a different manufacturer.
If a product sells out in a few days, that’s probably a great success. If it sells out in a few minutes, that means you just didn’t make enough and you probably lost money.
Of course none of the items there are limited to this box and will come at full price later.
GW prefers to sell most of the stuff they sell at full price rather than discount.
tauist wrote: GW doesn't care? I disagree. Most of the preorder items released this week sold out inside a business day. That's a great day for any business! They will be popping off some champagne and dishing out free pastries at the office breakroom come Monday
And yet I would have bought a copy if it was still available. Instead, I’ve spent that money on products by a different manufacturer.
If a product sells out in a few days, that’s probably a great success. If it sells out in a few minutes, that means you just didn’t make enough and you probably lost money.
Exactly! Sold out means you left money on the table
Do you think they prefer to get X or X+Y for same sprues?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/13 09:56:41
From a business standpoint, given that there's no guarantees, it's better to leave money on the table than lose money by over-producing and having wastage.
Look I understand GW wanted to avoid another situation like the Hobbit limited edition or Dreadfleet but those were 10+ years ago. Box sets that sell out in minutes and disappear forever means money is left on the table and that ill will among fans is generated.
Dominion was much more recent.
This is box 3 of the Kill Team Space Hulk games, and Kill Team box 12? whatever. How can they not have a good feel for demand by now?
Because people are not solely buying them for Kill Team. The previous box went quick because of the Karskin, selling to IG players and KT players. I think a lot of KT players got burned on that because you never even needed to pre-order the previous boxes, were always around for weeks. I think this time around the KT players are on it, and it's selling through in hours, instead of weeks/months.
But it's a very difficult equation to balance. There's no essential, exclusively KT product to even gauge the demand for KT itself on. Every product has multiple uses. In the case of these boxes they:
1) sell to people who want to actually play KT with the teams included
2) sell to people who collect one of those factions and want those figures *now*
3) sell to people who want two sets of the terrain for 40K boarding action games, and want to do so "optimally" so know they want to pick up 2 of the 4 sets being released.
The relative demand for any given box will vary hugely. (In season 1, Octarius, the first box, was available for pretty much the entire season, despite being the best value package for anyone who actually wanted to play Kill Team)
Plus I'm not convinced this is gone entirely anyway. It seems like a number of shops are getting multiple waves and while Element and maybe some others (including the GW store?) put them all up with later delivery windows, other shops may only have put up the initial allocation. There may yet be copies of this floating around by the end of the month anyway.
tauist wrote: GW doesn't care? I disagree. Most of the preorder items released this week sold out inside a business day. That's a great day for any business! They will be popping off some champagne and dishing out free pastries at the office breakroom come Monday
And yet I would have bought a copy if it was still available. Instead, I’ve spent that money on products by a different manufacturer.
If a product sells out in a few days, that’s probably a great success. If it sells out in a few minutes, that means you just didn’t make enough and you probably lost money.
Of course none of the items there are limited to this box and will come at full price later.
GW prefers to sell most of the stuff they sell at full price rather than discount.
I can only speak for myself and I’ve no way of knowing how typical I am. There is no way I am going to buy the full contents of that box individually at full price. It’s nothing to do with the price, but everything to do with whether I actually need all the stuff. Buying a big box on release day is an impulse purchase. The later releases are much more considered. I’ll almost certainly only end up buying a box of Arbites and I’ll buy them when I get round to it … which could turn into sometime never.
So GW’s lack of stock has turned a near certain £110 purchase into a vague possibility of maybe a £37ish purchase sometime in the distant future.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/13 11:10:16
Some material for someone who would like to write an article on how fomo-driven consummerist culture is making people unhappy. There's always something on the horizon that we don't or can't have, so we live lives of permanent unfulfillment.
Just let go. Your life isn't going to be happier or even any different if you don't buy a product like that. Get your dopamine shot from something else.
Cyel wrote: Some material for someone who would like to write an article on how fomo-driven consummerist culture is making people unhappy. There's always something on the horizon that we don't or can't have, so we live lives of permanent unfulfillment.
Just let go. Your life isn't going to be happier or even any different if you don't buy a product like that. Get your dopamine shot from something else.
I never said I was unhappy. I was mildly disappointed for a few minutes. I’m simply posting about it here because this is a wargaming forum, where we talk about wargaming.
Someone is voicing a complaint on a public forum, so I assume they expect other users to give their opinion on that complaint. This is just my opinion, it isn't binding for you in any way. You do what you want to do to feel what you want to feel.
Someone is voicing a complaint on a public forum, so I assume they expect other users to give their opinion on that complaint. This is just my opinion, it isn't binding for you in any way. You do what you want to do to feel what you want to feel.
Seriously I have no idea what your problem is. Like, genuinely puzzled. If someone doesn't want to hear what other people think, why post? Or is it just ok as long as it is a pat on the back, otherwise it's "what's wrong with you"?
Cyel wrote: Seriously I have no idea what your problem is. Like, genuinely puzzled. If someone doesn't want to hear what other people think, why post? Or is it just ok as long as it is a pat on the back, otherwise it's "what's wrong with you"?
No, my problem is you ascribing an emotional state to people, and critiquing their entire lifestyle and state of being based on expressing disappointment they couldn’t buy the toy soldiers they wanted. I thought we were here to talking about wargaming, not give our opinions on the character and psychological state of the people posting. If anyone is attacking people they disagree with it’s you.
I'm thinking the low quantity of Shadowvaults and Soulshackle is intentional. Season 2 has been polarizing from the start, I bought 3.5/4 of Season 1 but ever since we were told S2 would be space ship battles, and space ship battles only, I was sure I wouldn't be buying more than 1 or 2 out of 4. This became even more certain once we figured out each box would come with the exact same terrain. Only a completist collector or someone hell bent on building a 3D Space Hulk board would want all 4 boxes.
So maybe GW figured this out and decided to keep box quantities for the season low, barring the season launch box, as it was also a way to get into the game. Every book, team and terrain kit will be available separately, so all the fans are missing out are the savings, and that's a loss GW surely can live with
If my suspicions are correct, Gallowfall will also sell out pretty much immediately, although this will depend on the teams. The completely new kit needs to be a must-have for collectors.
Extra gubbins sprue will need to be extraordinary now to raise any interest, I don't quite see how it can even top the one which comes with 'shackle tbh, as the game needed breachable walls in order not to feel to dumb. On many S2 missions, the relatively low amt of turning points and the mass of walls often means any positioning errors will cost you the whole game, as there was no way to go through walls before (even the first KT21S2 WH+ batrep played the rules wrong at first, going through walls LOL)
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2023/02/13 14:05:45
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
Scalpers will make sure it sells out no matter what teams they put in it. Into The Dark sold out quick too, it just wasn't as instantaneous as Vaults and Shackle.
Now they've rescinded the pre-order promise and presumably cut back on production due to the 2022 boxes not moving lightning fast naturally the scalpers saw another opportunity and FOMO probably moved more boxes. There's also folks who might wanna try the boarding actions but know it's better to buy two KT boxes and sell the teams, books and accessories.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/02/13 14:20:06
The rumour for the next set was Terminators versus Genestealers, right? But nobody ever specified loyalist or purestrain, so maybe it's Khorne terminators versus upgrade sprue cultists!
I'm not seeing how Terminators could be a viable Kill Team. Perhaps a single model, accompanied by other type of operatives, but not a squad.
I cannot see how a team of 4 custodes wouldn't be struggling in KT21S2 missions. Terminators would be at least as powerful, if not more so, so couldn't realistically be more than 4 models for the whole team. They could perhaps manage in regular Kill Team, since custodes also do, but not in close confines games where visibility is super limited..
Terminators vs genestealers works in Space Hulk or 40K AoO games
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/02/13 21:10:05
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
tauist wrote: I'm not seeing how Terminators could be a viable Kill Team. Perhaps a single model, accompanied by other type of operatives, but not a squad.
I cannot see how a team of 4 custodes wouldn't be struggling in KT21S2 missions. Terminators would be at least as powerful, if not more so, so couldn't realistically be more than 4 models for the whole team. They could perhaps manage in regular Kill Team, since custodes also do, but not in close confines games where visibility is super limited..
Terminators vs genestealers works in Space Hulk or 40K AoO games
Depends on the size of the hallways, and the game mechanics. As to Killteam, 5 or 6 Genestealers are no match for terminators in a skirmish in a straight up one on one fight.
BUT, using the Space Hulk rules, that's a horse of a different color.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
I'm skeptical about current GW releasing new terminators for something not 30k at this point in time, TBH, or maybe as a splash release like the SM Heroes.
It seems that regular 40k timeline is all primaris all the time, so it doesn't feel that likely to see termies instead of agressors or something.
The most recent 40K rumours are talking about Primaris Terminators, not firstborn.
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
I think the terminators vs Genestealer KT came from Valrak - but he said it was a redo of Spacehulk, not necessarily KT. If they released Space Hulk as its own thing it would fit in very well as they now have the scenery designed and plenty of players with their own collections of corridors they could add to any game they release. Seems more likely to me than Termies in KT.
silverstu wrote: I think the terminators vs Genestealer KT came from Valrak - but he said it was a redo of Spacehulk, not necessarily KT. If they released Space Hulk as its own thing it would fit in very well as they now have the scenery designed and plenty of players with their own collections of corridors they could add to any game they release. Seems more likely to me than Termies in KT.
Valrak's 'Stealer vs. Termies' rumour morphed a lot over the time, he said among other things that they'd be in the 10th edition starter set, that there'd be a redo of Space Hulk was iirc. speculation on his part, not an actual rumour from his sources.
tauist wrote: The most recent 40K rumours are talking about Primaris Terminators, not firstborn.
Aren't those what Agressors are supposed to be?
I originally thought so when 9th came out, but they aren't any better armored, they can't teleport, and aren't limited to veteran marines. I realize that doesn't preclude them being the terminator equivalents, but I would consider those some key aspects of terminators. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Exactly this. They reprinted Cursed City and there's TONS of those sitting on shelves in local game stores.
Also with that people had had a chance to play it, and really most abandoned the campaign half way through as it was so samey. I wouldn't have bought it. After playing? I wouldn't have bought it.
tauist wrote: The most recent 40K rumours are talking about Primaris Terminators, not firstborn.
Aren't those what Agressors are supposed to be?
Nope. The new Primaris Terminators are supposedly coming in 10th edition launch box. They are called Arduanters (Primaris Terminators, Graviton Hammers, Shields, new type of Gravis Armor)
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
tauist wrote: The most recent 40K rumours are talking about Primaris Terminators, not firstborn.
Aren't those what Agressors are supposed to be?
Nope. The new Primaris Terminators are supposedly coming in 10th edition launch box. They are called Arduanters (Primaris Terminators, Graviton Hammers, Shields, new type of Gravis Armor)
...ugh, that name is fething horrible, if true.
Also, you say no, but they totally were, and were "sold" as such, down to the captains using that as termine equivalent armor.
tauist wrote: The most recent 40K rumours are talking about Primaris Terminators, not firstborn.
Aren't those what Agressors are supposed to be?
Nope. The new Primaris Terminators are supposedly coming in 10th edition launch box. They are called Arduanters (Primaris Terminators, Graviton Hammers, Shields, new type of Gravis Armor)
...ugh, that name is fething horrible, if true.
Also, you say no, but they totally were, and were "sold" as such, down to the captains using that as termine equivalent armor.
Maybe they were. I mean, I can see how MK X Gravis can be thought of as being equivalent of TDA, but I thought that wasnt canon. Haven't read any Primaris related lore so what do I know..
Coming back to the topic of terminators in KT21, it is well known that teams with 5 or fewer operatives struggle on most missions against more numerous teams, so if Heavy Interecessor teams are trash tier, I dunno how Terminators also wouldn't be
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/14 15:04:34
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
tauist wrote: The most recent 40K rumours are talking about Primaris Terminators, not firstborn.
Aren't those what Agressors are supposed to be?
Nope. The new Primaris Terminators are supposedly coming in 10th edition launch box. They are called Arduanters (Primaris Terminators, Graviton Hammers, Shields, new type of Gravis Armor)
...ugh, that name is fething horrible, if true.
Also, you say no, but they totally were, and were "sold" as such, down to the captains using that as termine equivalent armor.
These 'Arduanters' are also part of a huge batch of rumours from 4chan of all places, and some reputed rumourmongers call other parts of that batch fake, so i'd not accept them for a fact just yet
The rules for both teams seem to have leaked as well..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/14 19:47:18
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
The KT stock issues are just widely annoying in general. My wife was genuinely excited to get into the game with Euclidian Starstriders... and they've been sold out for more than two months.
Now I am left either disappointing her and keeping the game from gaining a new player, or paying an Ebay scalper a 150% mark-up.
Having 50%+ of their Killteams sold out is a horrible look for a game's accessibility.
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted)