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Azuza001 wrote:
The 10 man rubric with flamers has potential to be interesting, thats for sure.

Interesting, but expensive. My army might go with 5 mans with Warpflamer Pistol, Warpflamer, Soul Reaper, 2 ICBs.

I think Magnus can get +6 to cast? He gets +2 for being him, +1 for being Thousand Sons. You can spend 9 Cabal Points to give him another +2. But he has Arrogance of Aeons warlord trait, meaning you can use 2 Cabbalistic Rituals on him, so if you really wanted you could spend another 5 Cabal Points for another +1. I doubt you'd ever actually need the +6 but it could be handy in case you roll crap both times. He can super-smite on a 5

Perhaps a good use of this is for pushing up the test result for Baleful Devolution? With his casting reroll and the option to reroll just one of the dice thanks to the Infernal Master, you can be looking at essentially another Magnus super-smite against big units. If Baleful Devolution didn't require the target unit to have 6+ models it would be a truly terrifying power.

Magnus does have a 3+ as opposed to BK's 6+ so AP0 is a little more gentle.

BK might be durable, but he's as unreliable a caster as a Tzaangor Shaman ( no offense to Tzaangor Shamans ) as well as only cast two / deny 1. Magnus is S16 where BK is 12, so where Knights are concerned Magnus wins, because his staff will add another D3 MW at end of phase. BK will only otherwise benefit from D3+3 against W4 models -- anything else Magnus cracks in one round. BK also has little chance of opening a Raider with spells and then charging the occupants where Magnus can easily.

Knowing 18 spells with full rerolls on all casting, denies, with a +3, and no perils is bigly 'uge. One should also always expect to be spending 2 CP every turn to give him a fourth cast and D3 heal. In total Magnus should regain 4 wounds a turn.

If Magnus gets super smite with the cabal +D3 MW he'll do 4D3 - up to 12MW in a single spell - that's almost enough to wipe BK off the table just by looking at him ( obviously an average of 8, which is half ).

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but BK is M12 not M16.

All that said - expect him to die occasionally if you put him on the table turn 1. He's otherwise going to suck all the air out of the room for your opponent and you can try to use that to your advantage.

I'm going to run a 2k test list to get the feel for a few things, hopefully it doesn't look too bad:

Battalion (2000 - 7 CP)- Cult of Duplicity

Secondaries: Either Psychic Ritual and Burn Empires, or Mutate Landscape and Raise the Banners. Unsure about the 3rd, either a kill obj or while we stand since my most expensive models will be my exalteds and either a contemptor or the sorcerer.



This list actually comes out to 1858 leaving me with 142pts to spend, I can either do a contempter or 20 Tzaangors for back field screening/objectives.

The general strat is for the Infernal Master to run with Exalted Sorc A behind the 10x Scarab Occult either up mid or towards an obj. The first time the IM fails a pact I'll use the autopass strat to put a MW on the exalted to give him the +1 from his relic.

The warpflamer squad will either Webway or Risen Rubricae depending on situation while the 5x Scarab Occult deepstrike and roast something

Exalted B goes with Rubricae squad B to layout some pain and hold an obj.

The sorcerer goes with Squad A for normal and psychic actions on obj's.


Any thoughts or CC would be helpful, thanks

Well you have bodies, psycic, and hoard issues under control but a few things to consier....

1. If I was playing that list my 2ndaries are already picked for me. No prisoners, assassinate, and abhor the witch. Just by playing 8th ed style against it you will get hurt.
2. Your anti tank is basically smite. So a few russes or a knight or even some predators will be able to have a field day. Not to mention admech vehicles or the like.

I am not sure what you would do to counter these issues. On the 1 hand knowing what your opponent is probably picking as secondaries could be seen as a positive if your able to manipulate that.

The general strat is for the Infernal Master to run with Exalted Sorc A behind the 10x Scarab Occult either up mid or towards an obj. The first time the IM fails a pact I'll use the autopass strat to put a MW on the exalted to give him the +1 from his relic.

Clever. I like that.

This list actually comes out to 1858 leaving me with 142pts to spend, I can either do a contempter or 20 Tzaangors for back field screening/objectives.

I would suggest 2x2 or 2x3 spawn. They're quite hard to kill from behind obscuring. Rukkatrukks might give them a run for their money though.

Azuza001 wrote:Well you have bodies, psycic, and hoard issues under control but a few things to consier....

1. If I was playing that list my 2ndaries are already picked for me. No prisoners, assassinate, and abhor the witch. Just by playing 8th ed style against it you will get hurt.
2. Your anti tank is basically smite. So a few russes or a knight or even some predators will be able to have a field day. Not to mention admech vehicles or the like.

I am not sure what you would do to counter these issues. On the 1 hand knowing what your opponent is probably picking as secondaries could be seen as a positive if your able to manipulate that.

So I would probably want an AT contemptor then? Or would you suggest a change to the list?

Daedalus81 wrote:

The general strat is for the Infernal Master to run with Exalted Sorc A behind the 10x Scarab Occult either up mid or towards an obj. The first time the IM fails a pact I'll use the autopass strat to put a MW on the exalted to give him the +1 from his relic.

Clever. I like that.

This list actually comes out to 1858 leaving me with 142pts to spend, I can either do a contempter or 20 Tzaangors for back field screening/objectives.

I would suggest 2x2 or 2x3 spawn. They're quite hard to kill from behind obscuring. Rukkatrukks might give them a run for their money though.

I wish I had Spawn, I've a kitbashed one named Klondike but nothing else I could use as Spawn. Are they really that good? Could they be used to potentially tie down vehicles?

It seems my main problem is AT, which given the list seems a decent problem. I could try to rely on +1S/+1 to Wound warpflamers but that seems unlikely, and tying them up seems it could backfire

Azuza001 wrote:
Well you have bodies, psycic, and hoard issues under control but a few things to consier....

1. If I was playing that list my 2ndaries are already picked for me. No prisoners, assassinate, and abhor the witch. Just by playing 8th ed style against it you will get hurt.

Another reason to go mechanized I guess? Bring It Down is in the same category as Assassinate so you won't give up as many points just by getting killed. Abhor being in Warpcraft is always gonna be an issue for us.

You could take a forgefiend with double ectoplasma, it gives you 2d3 str 7 ap-3 3dmg flat blast shots. Then there is the infernal master slapping it with his prayer to get it to str 8, and if you just have to do it spend the cp to put it at ap-4. That could be decent antitank for 140pts. If your able to find a 15 more pts he can take a 3rd cannon for 3d3 shots.

Man I wish daemon engines were core =(

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:

I wish I had Spawn, I've a kitbashed one named Klondike but nothing else I could use as Spawn. Are they really that good? Could they be used to potentially tie down vehicles?

It seems my main problem is AT, which given the list seems a decent problem. I could try to rely on +1S/+1 to Wound warpflamers but that seems unlikely, and tying them up seems it could backfire

A big supported unit of spawn with 4++ can and they can pop some vehicles with a little luck. There's cheapo spawn model options out there. The 2x2 spawn option would be units to hold your backfield objectives. You wouldn't buff them. Just hide them and use them to fight off deepstrikers.

Stuff like laser chickens will either shoot scarabs or spawn. In the case of spawn they die slower ( assuming 4++ ) and they're only 23 points.

In general you may find the 10 man units make you less flexible so having more drops and more coverage can help.

So, if I were to drop one of the rubricae squads to a 5 man,, that frees up 105pts, leaving me with 247pts.

247 pts is exactly what a triple plasma fiend and 4 Spawn would cost, so I could run 2 squads of 2, and not lose out on powers or cabal points

I'll try that

On the subject of anti tank. Do you guys think just two Vindicators is enough for anti tank. That plus the hellfire racks from occult terminators. We can use the d6 from the infernal master to reroll the number of shots on one of the vehicles as well. And then use 1 CP to reroll the number of shots for the other Vindicator.

Two T8 vehicles with 5++ invul should stick around for a while. If they spike a high number of shots, they can do serious damage to other vehicles. As long as they attract anti-tank fire, that will reduce the AT shots going into our terminators.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
On the subject of anti tank. Do you guys think just two Vindicators is enough for anti tank. That plus the hellfire racks from occult terminators. We can use the d6 from the infernal master to reroll the number of shots on one of the vehicles as well. And then use 1 CP to reroll the number of shots for the other Vindicator.

Two T8 vehicles with 5++ invul should stick around for a while. If they spike a high number of shots, they can do serious damage to other vehicles. As long as they attract anti-tank fire, that will reduce the AT shots going into our terminators.

Yea they're pretty great. Stick them with a combi-melta and havoc launcher and they help cover lots of problems. They're awesome at killing gravis and hordes as well - Vanguard, too when they don't have the anti-blast rule.

Tanks also have the Smokescreen keyword, I don’t think that’s available to Helbrutes or Daemon Engines.

Quite happy with my first game with the new Codex today.

Magnus, Ahriman, 2 Princes, Exalted
3 x 5 Rubrics + 1 x 5 Flamer Rubrics + 10 Scarabs
All time cult for tankyness, against cc heavy necrons with some dakka.

To be fair MW is quite good against Necrons and oh boy, have I spammed those today.


Game was basically over turn 2 and we called it a day turn 3.


My takes from that game:

I love that new super Smite of Magnus. At first I was sceptical, but you will get it off a lot more often with 8+ instead of 10+ and the 3D3 is very reliable. I popped the Malevolent Charge cabalistic ritual on him every turn and 4D3 MW is really good.
He supercharged Firestorm twice as well and could cast it twice with psychic Maelstrom.
(Gave the Scarabs Maelstrom as well.)
Magnus alone did a whooping 15-20 MW each turn, what a beast.

My order for psychic powers was
1. Buffs (Glamour, Weaver, Presage all from Ahriman)
2. Situational stuff (Temporal Surge, Swelled, Empric Guidance, Pyric Flux)

If needed I used Ahrimans rerolls or +1 /+2 ritual, in the end I got all of them casts every turn.
3. After that I pumped all of the remaining 20 CP in maxing out Mortal wounds and getting supercharged Smites, Firestorms and Baleful Devolution.

It worked like a charm and my necron buddy was not amused about getting those MW's handed by the bucket.


But the loss on some ranges, especially Smite was really something to plan around. Before it was quite easy to advance & smite + keep your distance, got charged thrice but was worth it in the end.
Might become a problem in the future though, especially against more dangerous stuff.

Ahriman is an amazing support Caster now, 2 of our 4 buffs got easier to cast for him and rerolls + rituals on top? Hell yeah!


Scarabs were solid as well, used that -1 dmg strat in a key moment and had a 4++ on them all the time, now they feel proper tanky. (Will miss their 2++ / 3++ though, but I think 3 wounds will mitigate that somehow) Used the Soulreaper strat & +1 to wound strat on them to shred some Warriors and they killed some skorpeks in melee as well.


The MSU Rubrics held objectives, their 2 wounds felt really good, was about time. Got of some casts and did their job. Kinda missed that squad of 10 though, as Magnus had no real target for his full reroll buff because the Scarabs were 2+ anyway. Might try 10 + 5 + 5 next time.

5 flamer dudes in webway was more of a gimmic, even with pyric flux they did not fully get their points back - but only good target were T5 Immortals, will try them again.
Not sure about 10 flamers, they absolutely need to get a good target to be worth their points.
Could have saved 1 CP if I had put them just in strategic reserve instead, but I like the flexibility from webway.


Princes did what they did before, some casting, some melee and a failed charge after crystal jump.
Gonna need to squeeze in an Infernal Master for that sweet reroll, gonna miss gaze of fate, especially if you consider you will need 1-2 CP per game to pop the strat on his 3+ roll...


Overall the psychic phase felt a lot less random and more controlled with the rituals, as it should be with Thousand Sons.
Only real downsides for my are:
The loss of 24" smites and MW powers, now we have not even 1 of them left.
The hard nerf on devastating sorcery.
The restrictions on temporal surge.

Overall we got a lot more reliable & deadly, but on shorter distance.
I think souping might become a real option, as we can still cast somewhat reliable even without rituals.

Got lucky today, but it was a real close call with that few models. Not much to screen but honestly I don't want to get more Tzaangors, Cultists or Rhinos for that. Might be mandatory though, as it's really tough to keep your stuff safe. This will be a hard challenge for me to get a good balance from MSU squads and having some squads of 10 to get the most out of strategems and buffs.


I will definitely try to experiment with our Mortal wound output.
With rituals we can snipe characters on 18" quite good now.
Next game I will try to move up Ahriman or an exalted on disc with scrolls, cast Firestorm + Gaze, use Malevolent Charge on top and get 6 MW on average with supercharged firestorm (4,5 without). After that move back with temporal surge. Repeat the following turns.
Since you can advance and cast that's a thread range of 30" + W6"

Thanks for the great write up.

Just so everyone is aware, you don't get +1 to invulnerable saves anymore vs dmg 1 weapons. It says armor saves now.

 Grotrebel wrote:
Magnus alone did a whooping 15-20 MW each turn, what a beast.

... It worked like a charm and my necron buddy was not amused about getting those MW's handed by the bucket.

Sounds fun and interactive.

He kinda illustrates the problem with big models in this game. He's either going to wipe the floor with lists that can't kill him, or get deleted T1 (or after whenever you bring him in from SR after paying an arm and a leg in CP). It really exposes the limitations of the IGOUGO system.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Grotrebel wrote:
Magnus alone did a whooping 15-20 MW each turn, what a beast.

... It worked like a charm and my necron buddy was not amused about getting those MW's handed by the bucket.

Sounds fun and interactive.

It's pretty much why I run Szarekhan with my crons - 5+++ and a dispel strat. Necrons shouldn't weep as the C'Tan dish it out just as much.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Grotrebel wrote:
Magnus alone did a whooping 15-20 MW each turn, what a beast.

... It worked like a charm and my necron buddy was not amused about getting those MW's handed by the bucket.

Sounds fun and interactive.

Yea cause 9 raider or like 12 las chicken spam is so fun and interactive.

 xeen wrote:
Yea cause 9 raider or like 12 las chicken spam is so fun and interactive.

If you want to fight straw men, do it elsewhere.

yukishiro1 wrote:
He kinda illustrates the problem with big models in this game. He's either going to wipe the floor with lists that can't kill him, or get deleted T1 (or after whenever you bring him in from SR after paying an arm and a leg in CP). It really exposes the limitations of the IGOUGO system.

Exactly. And Tsons has access to healing psychic as well. So, if you can't kill Magnus in one turn, there are ways to heal him. Not all lists are designed to kill a daemon primach with 18W, 4++ save and -1 dmg in one round. And he will do a ton of MW damage if you use him for that. Magnus can be pretty oppressive in a casual game.

I feel that using psykers like Ahriman and Magnus for normal spells instead of witchfire spells and super smites is a waste. Since even our regular psykers get a +1 to cast and have access to all of our disciplines. Our ability to throw out big Smites and witchfire spells are literally what separates us from other typical armies. I mean, sure there are tons of other spells in both disciplines which are very useful. But if we cannot reduce our opponent's army down with shooting and psychic MW, sooner or later, we are going to get whittled down ourselves no matter how many utility or defensive spells we cast.

That's why I feel that any defensive spells and utility spells should only come after we have pretty much cast whatever witchfire spells we can.


On a separate note. Every single TS vs GK battle report I have seen had the TSons getting stomped... Bad sign. But maybe its just that GK are just a bad matchup for Tsons...

Magnus had to be 3++ against ranged weapons and 5++ melee, to force him cast and avoid rushes


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Magnus had to be 3++ against ranged weapons and 5++ melee, to force him cast and avoid rushes

All of the healing stuff says 'a model can only be healed once per turn' so I think he can only ever be healed d3 per turn?

Eldenfirefly wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
He kinda illustrates the problem with big models in this game. He's either going to wipe the floor with lists that can't kill him, or get deleted T1 (or after whenever you bring him in from SR after paying an arm and a leg in CP). It really exposes the limitations of the IGOUGO system.

Exactly. And Tsons has access to healing psychic as well. So, if you can't kill Magnus in one turn, there are ways to heal him. Not all lists are designed to kill a daemon primach with 18W, 4++ save and -1 dmg in one round. And he will do a ton of MW damage if you use him for that. Magnus can be pretty oppressive in a casual game.

I feel that using psykers like Ahriman and Magnus for normal spells instead of witchfire spells and super smites is a waste. Since even our regular psykers get a +1 to cast and have access to all of our disciplines. Our ability to throw out big Smites and witchfire spells are literally what separates us from other typical armies. I mean, sure there are tons of other spells in both disciplines which are very useful. But if we cannot reduce our opponent's army down with shooting and psychic MW, sooner or later, we are going to get whittled down ourselves no matter how many utility or defensive spells we cast.

That's why I feel that any defensive spells and utility spells should only come after we have pretty much cast whatever witchfire spells we can.


On a separate note. Every single TS vs GK battle report I have seen had the TSons getting stomped... Bad sign. But maybe its just that GK are just a bad matchup for Tsons...

Grey knights might be a bad matchup due to good melee and the 5+++ against mortal wounds, but I doubt there are going to be many good matchups. Sisters have a bunch of 5+ and 6+ denies which don’t care about the extra casting value the +1 gives. Also they have plenty of chaff to take mortal wounds and have plenty of ways to dish pain back. DG don’t like the mortal wounds Tsons dish out, but like how close those sorcerers need to be in order to hit them with those mortal wounds. Orks have bodies and cheap wounds, and we don’t need to talk about DE and ad-mech. This army is weak as mono, make no mistake about it.

I'm thinking that the thousand sons are in good position, playing objectives and mortal wound damage output. I've got a initial list, which I'd like to share and discuss, and maybe improve it.



My battleplan is quite simple, playing for objectives and deal lots of damage from psychic. The rubric marines hold backfield objectives or move forward in flanks, supported by exalted sorcerer. Tzaangors are in the centre, supported by shaman, mutalith and infernal master. The terminators deep strike into objectives and Magnus the Red is clearing the table where needed.

I'm planning for secondaries; investigate signal (tzaangors), mutate landscape, and engage on all fronts.

I'm not sure about psychic powers yet, but the tzaangor shaman takes weaver of fates to buff saves of tzaangors. The infernal master has glimpse of eternity to bring extra reroll, which is very good. And I chose the cult of time for bringing back models from grave.
So, I'd like to hear your feedback about this, how to improve it and in case I'm missing something.

FWIW dumping mortal wounds on an ork boy is nearly as efficient as dumping mortal wounds on an intercessor at this point. And MWs are pretty decent against drukhari as well, no psychic defense and you bypass all those invulns and -1s to hit, most druk stuff is 10+ppw.

 the_scotsman wrote:
FWIW dumping mortal wounds on an ork boy is nearly as efficient as dumping mortal wounds on an intercessor at this point. And MWs are pretty decent against drukhari as well, no psychic defense and you bypass all those invulns and -1s to hit, most druk stuff is 10+ppw.

MWs are not efficient against Drukhari Troops/Vehicles due to absurdly cost efficient ppw