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I think they look really cool. Can I have them in there? I won’t use their rules, just the modles? If so, can i use eldar too? I would design my own mini codex with standard rules, but with custom colors and designs, so the rules are all in one place. I would write my own mini stories that involve my own marines going to the eye of terror and getting stuck there, and they have to make alliance with eldar and use chaos armour after a big battle, and their normal armor is destroyed.

 Matoro99 wrote:
I think they look really cool. Can I have them in there? I won’t use their rules, just the modles? If so, can i use eldar too? I would design my own mini codex with standard rules, but with custom colors and designs, so the rules are all in one place. I would write my own mini stories that involve my own marines going to the eye of terror and getting stuck there, and they have to make alliance with eldar and use chaos armour after a big battle, and their normal armor is destroyed.

In a tournament, ask the TO.

In a friendly game, ask your opponent.

For me personally? I'd be fine with it, so long as what it ACTUALLY is is clear. So a Helbrute as a normal Dreadnought, sounds good. An ordinary Helbrute as a Redemptor... Not as much, since there's a big size difference.

I'd also want to see some effort towards conversions. If it's just a proxy, for "I want to see how [MARINE UNIT] does, but I don't own it, so I'll use [CSM UNIT or ELDAR UNIT] in place of it," then no work is needed, but if you intend to permanently use a completely ordinary Striking Scorpion squad as Assault Marines... I'd be a little offput.

That being said, if you want to make custom rules, I'd also be cool with that. I'd want to check 'em for balance before playing with them, but I enjoy making my own rules, so...

At home, sure, you do you.
At a FLGS/GW store or a gaming club, very very unlikely.
From personal experience, custom rules on a large scale i.e a homebrew Codex, aren't a good idea. They're horribly balanced and often the creator makes up a lot of stuff that's either too hard to keep track of or is so unbearably OP it's just not fun to play against.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Matoro99 wrote:
I think they look really cool. Can I have them in there? I won’t use their rules, just the modles? If so, can i use eldar too? I would design my own mini codex with standard rules, but with custom colors and designs, so the rules are all in one place. I would write my own mini stories that involve my own marines going to the eye of terror and getting stuck there, and they have to make alliance with eldar and use chaos armour after a big battle, and their normal armor is destroyed.

In a tournament, ask the TO.

In a friendly game, ask your opponent.

For me personally? I'd be fine with it, so long as what it ACTUALLY is is clear. So a Helbrute as a normal Dreadnought, sounds good. An ordinary Helbrute as a Redemptor... Not as much, since there's a big size difference.

I'd also want to see some effort towards conversions. If it's just a proxy, for "I want to see how [MARINE UNIT] does, but I don't own it, so I'll use [CSM UNIT or ELDAR UNIT] in place of it," then no work is needed, but if you intend to permanently use a completely ordinary Striking Scorpion squad as Assault Marines... I'd be a little offput.

That being said, if you want to make custom rules, I'd also be cool with that. I'd want to check 'em for balance before playing with them, but I enjoy making my own rules, so...

I fully intend to give them a whole unified paint scheme and write stories on it and maybe even code a whole entire website about it where there is the storyline and the rules and stuff. I’m working on the colors but it will be red and yellow with green eyes. Even the eldar will have it. I have decided on that because it works together of colors.

You'd have to check with your regular opponents to see if they're OK with playing against fanmade rules.

Use the Berzerker models as Assault Intercessors and watch the World Eaters players (myself included) cry.

 Matoro99 wrote:
I think they look really cool. Can I have them in there? I won’t use their rules, just the modles? If so, can i use eldar too? I would design my own mini codex with standard rules, but with custom colors and designs, so the rules are all in one place. I would write my own mini stories that involve my own marines going to the eye of terror and getting stuck there, and they have to make alliance with eldar and use chaos armour after a big battle, and their normal armor is destroyed.

I'll be honest, I had an immediate "No, that's not how any of this works" reaction to your post. But really, this is your hobby, and you should do what you like. In terms of gaming with these minis, this seems to be what the "Open Play" category in the rulebooks is made for - playing with whatever minis you like in whatever fashion you like. So go for it.

I believe you may be talking about Blood Angels

 Matoro99 wrote:
I would write my own mini stories that involve my own marines going to the eye of terror and getting stuck there, and they have to make alliance with eldar and use chaos armour after a big battle, and their normal armor is destroyed.

I could see people who take the fluff seriously getting very worked up about this, especially the idea of Space Marines wearing Chaos armour because they have nothing else to wear.

As others have said though, if the people you play against don't have an issue with it then do what you like.

Personally I wouldn't have an issue with Space Marines allying with Eldar. Though I'd like to see the Eldar as a mini army (even if it's only 1 HQ choice and 1 Troop choice) rather than just one unit you like the look of.

Gotta say I love all the nice responses in this thread. I agree with most others. Be very clear with what is what and ask your opponents consent. This is a hobby we do for fun so go nuts. Although to be honest the other way around might fit the lore better. Having chaos as the base. Chaos doesn’t need to be all evil murder hurr hurr, it can be marines who’s had to use desperate measures or have in one way or another regained some humanity. You seem to be going the line of radical inquisition, the only faction to use demonic arsenal for the good of the Imperium (demon weapons, demon hosts, demonic lore and artifacts...). Sadly the inquisition has been heavily toned down as a faction. I guess you could have a story of space marines sacrificing themselves to chaos to fight for the Imperium.

El Torro wrote:

 Matoro99 wrote:
I would write my own mini stories that involve my own marines going to the eye of terror and getting stuck there, and they have to make alliance with eldar and use chaos armour after a big battle, and their normal armor is destroyed.

I could see people who take the fluff seriously getting very worked up about this, especially the idea of Space Marines wearing Chaos armour because they have nothing else to wear.

As others have said though, if the people you play against don't have an issue with it then do what you like.

Personally I wouldn't have an issue with Space Marines allying with Eldar. Though I'd like to see the Eldar as a mini army (even if it's only 1 HQ choice and 1 Troop choice) rather than just one unit you like the look of.

Marines on long trips to Eye of Terror have always done that, scavenging is the name of the game. If somebody gets upset about the fluff side,
A) they're wrong and either narrowminded or misguided, thus
B) just guide them to the canon sources like Codex: Eye of Terror with the Space Wolves' 13th company who've scavenged chaos materiel for millenia or stuff like Bloodquest comics from olden days. Great stuff:
https://2static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Warhammer_ab742c_5826799.jpg

It's not rare, in a backwards galaxy of madness you use whatever you get and cobble together scraps if that's what keeps you alive.

You do you, who cares what some jerks on the internet think.

They're your marines, do with them as you will and if anyone has a problem with that, you will now know whom NOT to play in the future.

There will always be angry purists with pages-long rants about why you can't, but they're idiots trying to dictate how other people have fun, so feel free to ignore them.

I'm fully on board with telling GW's strict instructions on exactly what means what to shove it and going your own way, but there are a number of practical reasons why you're going to want to try and keep things a little more grounded, both for game reasons and artistic reasons. If things are roughly the same size as the original model (e.g. your Space Marines are on the same 32mm bases and roughly the same height as the official models for whatever they're representing) you can't be accused of modelling for advantage, you won't be accidentally handicapping yourself by making your models too easy to see, and as a basic concession to player immersion the thing that represents a Space Marine is going to look roughly like a Space Marine. The second consideration to keep in mind is that you and your opponent are going to need to have a basic sense of what represents what, so you'll need to make sure you can distinguish visually between models representing different loadouts or different units. If all the plasma guns you have modeled are flamers that's usually all right in casual play, the problems come when some of your plasma guns represent plasma guns, but some represent heavy bolters, and some aren't there at all and just represent more regular bolter dudes.

In the specific case of using CSM models in a loyalist army you're pretty safe most of the time; almost everything is a straight 1:1 swap with a Firstborn unit (CSM -> Tactical Marines, Raptors -> Assault Marines, etc.). Even some of the units that don't have an obvious proxy do if you squint (Obliterators -> Centurions, for instance). The only things I'd be wary of trying to proxy are the daemon engines; if you really like those models I'd advise you play the army as Chaos and proxy in some loyalist models instead.

Proxying Eldar into a Space Marine army is much harder; they're not the same size, they don't have similar theories of loadout (e.g. Guardians all have the same gun, so you can't easily say "these Guardians are a Tactical Squad with a heavy bolter and a flamer" without a bunch of conversion work), they're not on the same bases, and their vehicles don't have anything like the same footprint. If for narrative reasons you want to have Eldar and Space Marines on the same side I'd suggest either proxying the Eldar as a different Imperial army to use as allies to allow for the visual distinction, or just use open play rules and ally in the Eldar as Eldar.

Sumilidon wrote:
I believe you may be talking about Blood Angels

no they are my own chapter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sherrypie wrote:

El Torro wrote:

 Matoro99 wrote:
I would write my own mini stories that involve my own marines going to the eye of terror and getting stuck there, and they have to make alliance with eldar and use chaos armour after a big battle, and their normal armor is destroyed.

I could see people who take the fluff seriously getting very worked up about this, especially the idea of Space Marines wearing Chaos armour because they have nothing else to wear.

As others have said though, if the people you play against don't have an issue with it then do what you like.

Personally I wouldn't have an issue with Space Marines allying with Eldar. Though I'd like to see the Eldar as a mini army (even if it's only 1 HQ choice and 1 Troop choice) rather than just one unit you like the look of.

Marines on long trips to Eye of Terror have always done that, scavenging is the name of the game. If somebody gets upset about the fluff side,
A) they're wrong and either narrowminded or misguided, thus
B) just guide them to the canon sources like Codex: Eye of Terror with the Space Wolves' 13th company who've scavenged chaos materiel for millenia or stuff like Bloodquest comics from olden days. Great stuff:
https://2static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Warhammer_ab742c_5826799.jpg

It's not rare, in a backwards galaxy of madness you use whatever you get and cobble together scraps if that's what keeps you alive.

That was where i got the idea from actually. The old codex and the space wolves.

I will just that offer that enjoyment and fun on the tabletop is a two way street. Both players should be having fun. Your army design will not be what people are expecting, and they may find it off-putting. Playing with strangers usually means you should respect the standard expectations to avoid disappointment. Since you are the one stepping out from the convention I think the onus is on you regarding compromises. If you are not playing with strangers then ask your play group?

I think that the so-called "Rule of Cool" will usually prevail. People will be more willing to accept "counts-as" than they will home-brew rules/army lists. So if you rock up with a Space Marine army that has Khorne Bezerker models standing in for Assault Marines and using the Assault Marine rules has a greater chance of acceptance than showing up with a Loyalist Space Marine list that has Khorne Bezerkers using Khorne Bezerker rules.

Your mileage may vary.

@OP:

Not cool. Better kitbash your own tanks out of deodorant bottles.

I never play against homebrew. Just not worth the headache. You are free to write it and play with others of a like mind.

Honestly, your idea does not sound good at all to me. But that should not matter. We will in all likely hood never to meet or play. So you do you and have fun with it.

You may run into people that find your homebrew to be off putting because it is far from the norm. Be prepared for that. Because it will cost you games. But if you are willing to pay that price ( you may not lose any games at all if your area has a lot of open minded folk ) then go for broke. Get weird with it.

Some are going to disagree with this, but "I" think, that by current lore a space marine would never wear chaos armor. The armor itself is tainted and cannot be trusted. Many chaos marines fuse into their armor and the ones that do not generally have wards and cursed iconography that do not just wash off. "I" feel that a marine would rather wear no armor than be tainted by chaos. You will no doubt find things in the lore to back up my point, but also blow it apart. It is the nature of a open ended lore setting. I mean, we have Eldar using las guns in a Black Library book. So I guess anything is possible.

Edit : Just thought a good way to go with your idea. Perhaps only a few of your chapter decided to don chaos armor and the other chapter members are watching them for signs of corruption. Have it breed instability in your chapters lore. In my estimation, every space marine chapter should have one to many faults. Not having them brings you closer to marty stu territory which is a lonely place. So go with this flaw. Or dont. Just a idea.

If you're using a single Codex for your army and the different models are just counting as units from that Codex you should be fine. However, you'd need to make sure any "counts as" units aren't too confusing. They should look like they at least perform the same basic role as the unit you're counting them as. So Berzerkers as some sort of assault unit would be fine. Eldar maybe as Scouts should be OK too. Remember your opponents won't know any of the backstory or your own reasoning for your choices so you need to make things as easy as possible for them to understand without first having to digest all your custom background.

If you're mashing together lots of different units and rules from disparate Codices you may have more of a problem. Only your local group of players can tell you if they'd be happy with it but in a general sense this approach is less likely to be widely accepted.

There is strong precedent. In the original Eye of Terror supplement the Space Wolves 13th company wore a lot of Chaos power armour because that is what they had to scavenger in their battles in the eye.

I have seen a few cool units like legion of damned based on chaos chosen models (love those models), just make sure you get the chaos stars off and leave the ornate armour on!

 Strg Alt wrote:
@OP:

Not cool. Better kitbash your own tanks out of deodorant bottles.

Are you talking about the 90s grav tanks? I’m already working on that actually. I was going to make that as a display modle tho.

There isn't a "strong precedent" for Imperial Chapters wearing scavenged Chaos armour when the only example that can be cited is the Wulfen, the cursed 13th Great Company, who were lost in the Warp for ten thousand years.
If I were to say it doesn't make sense because there is a strong precedent for Imperial Chapters not wearing scavenged Chaos armour and cited nearly every single Space Marine Chapter ever as my evidence, then there would be a strong precedent.
There are some select examples of Imperial aligned Astartes using Chaos gear but they are massively rare and the one I can think of is the Relictors.

The Axe of Morkai is notably a weapon from a champion of Chaos that Logan Grimnar runs around with. And Draigo's Titansword was reforged using a bloodthirster(?)'s axe.

And Castellan Crowe...

There's plenty of precedent for marines using chaos gear. And even if the setting doesn't have a strong precedent for anything, is that really a reason to stop somebody? A strong precedent that Ultramarines drink Folgers' Brand Coffeee could be released in a community article tomorrow for all we know.

Gert wrote:There isn't a "strong precedent" for Imperial Chapters wearing scavenged Chaos armour when the only example that can be cited is the Wulfen, the cursed 13th Great Company, who were lost in the Warp for ten thousand years.
If I were to say it doesn't make sense because there is a strong precedent for Imperial Chapters not wearing scavenged Chaos armour and cited nearly every single Space Marine Chapter ever as my evidence, then there would be a strong precedent.
There are some select examples of Imperial aligned Astartes using Chaos gear but they are massively rare and the one I can think of is the Relictors.

'Cursed' is a bit of a strong term if you ask me. They've stayed loyal to Russ after all. Theyre pretty damned cool, if you ask me. I.do tend to agree marines wouldn't drip their gear for traitors gear unless it was out of utter desperation or else ignorance. Relictors come to mind, or any other chapter or individual that would align with a radical Inquisitor or their creed might be a consideration. Exorcists maybe? They let themselves get possessed by daemons after all.

And of course we cant forget the caveat if it's awesome kit they looted from champion.

Rihgu wrote:The Axe of Morkai is notably a weapon from a champion of Chaos that Logan Grimnar runs around with. And Draigo's Titansword was reforged using a bloodthirster(?)'s axe.

And Castellan Crowe...

There's plenty of precedent for marines using chaos gear. And even if the setting doesn't have a strong precedent for anything, is that really a reason to stop somebody? A strong precedent that Ultramarines drink Folgers' Brand Coffeee could be released in a community article tomorrow for all we know.

Marneus calgars gauntlets were originally won from a chaos champion too.

Only thing to point out is they'd need some sort of 'cleansing' or 'reconsecration' - the axe of Morkhai for example was 'reforged' - or as I like to think of it, an iron priest actually physically beat the daemon out of the axe with his hammer. Its written elsewhere how space ships that have been seized from rebels and traitors needed significant time and work to 'cleanse' them, and even then, I dont think the ship would ever be completely trusted.

I now have an even better newer question. Are the imperial assasins allowed in an army?

Rihgu wrote:
The Axe of Morkai is notably a weapon from a champion of Chaos that Logan Grimnar runs around with. And Draigo's Titansword was reforged using a bloodthirster(?)'s axe.

And Castellan Crowe...

There's plenty of precedent for marines using chaos gear. And even if the setting doesn't have a strong precedent for anything, is that really a reason to stop somebody? A strong precedent that Ultramarines drink Folgers' Brand Coffeee could be released in a community article tomorrow for all we know.

I never said people couldn't do the hobby the way they want, I'm just saying don't make stuff up that isn't based in any form of existing background to justify your position. When you make homebrew background people react better to it when it isn't just "I did whatever I wanted because people on the Internet said so".
I'm very pro-Your Dudes for 40k armies but an Imperial aligned Chapter that uses normal Astartes gear, Chaos gear, and is also allied with Aeldari is a stretch for me. Imperial Astartes secretly using scavenged Chaos wargear hiding on the outskirts of Imperial space to avoid the eyes of the Inquisition? Sure. Imperial Astartes having a pact with some local Aeldari. Less likely but I'd be down with it if the reason was cool and not just "I wanted it". Imperial Chapter that uses Chaos armour, allies with Aeldari and lives in the Eye of Terror? Sorry, but there are too many instances of "My Dudes are the best dudes ever" going on there IMO.
But when I suggest that maybe the OP has added too many unlikely situations to their homebrew background, people pick the flimsiest justifications or say things like this:

 Sherrypie wrote:
Marines on long trips to Eye of Terror have always done that, scavenging is the name of the game. If somebody gets upset about the fluff side,
A) they're wrong and either narrowminded or misguided, thus
B) just guide them to the canon sources like Codex: Eye of Terror with the Space Wolves' 13th company who've scavenged chaos materiel for millenia or stuff like Bloodquest comics from olden days. Great stuff:
https://2static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Warhammer_ab742c_5826799.jpg
It's not rare, in a backwards galaxy of madness you use whatever you get and cobble together scraps if that's what keeps you alive.

40k might be a sandbox universe but there is a limit to that. It's not narrowminded to say what I've said.

 Matoro99 wrote:
I now have an even better newer question. Are the imperial assasins allowed in an army?

Yes. Go read the rules for exact details.

Rihgu wrote:
The Axe of Morkai is notably a weapon from a champion of Chaos that Logan Grimnar runs around with. And Draigo's Titansword was reforged using a bloodthirster(?)'s axe.

And Castellan Crowe...

There's plenty of precedent for marines using chaos gear. And even if the setting doesn't have a strong precedent for anything, is that really a reason to stop somebody? A strong precedent that Ultramarines drink Folgers' Brand Coffeee could be released in a community article tomorrow for all we know.

I also have a couple squads of 13th Company Grey Slayers from 3rd ed in the Eye of Terror Campaign, which are literally Space Wolves with Chaos bits that were salvaged from their crusade in the warp. I've had people accuse me of proxying Chaos with the FOTM faction, but no they're literally just old-school, GW-official Space Wolves minis.

Ultimately, it's your hobby, do what you want, but you may have some difficulty getting random people to go along with it.

You're asking fairly basic questions about the rules, and then saying you're going to homebrew a whole codex full of rules

I'm uhh... I wouldn't trust over half the dakkarians here to be able to write "fair and balanced" rules let alone fresh faced players.

You'll have a hard time getting anyone other than close mates agree to playing v your homebrew.

 Matoro99 wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
@OP:

Not cool. Better kitbash your own tanks out of deodorant bottles.

Are you talking about the 90s grav tanks? I’m already working on that actually. I was going to make that as a display modle tho.

Yep.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Table wrote:
I never play against homebrew. Just not worth the headache. You are free to write it and play with others of a like mind.

Honestly, your idea does not sound good at all to me. But that should not matter. We will in all likely hood never to meet or play. So you do you and have fun with it.

You may run into people that find your homebrew to be off putting because it is far from the norm. Be prepared for that. Because it will cost you games. But if you are willing to pay that price ( you may not lose any games at all if your area has a lot of open minded folk ) then go for broke. Get weird with it.

Some are going to disagree with this, but "I" think, that by current lore a space marine would never wear chaos armor. The armor itself is tainted and cannot be trusted. Many chaos marines fuse into their armor and the ones that do not generally have wards and cursed iconography that do not just wash off. "I" feel that a marine would rather wear no armor than be tainted by chaos. You will no doubt find things in the lore to back up my point, but also blow it apart. It is the nature of a open ended lore setting. I mean, we have Eldar using las guns in a Black Library book. So I guess anything is possible.

Edit : Just thought a good way to go with your idea. Perhaps only a few of your chapter decided to don chaos armor and the other chapter members are watching them for signs of corruption. Have it breed instability in your chapters lore. In my estimation, every space marine chapter should have one to many faults. Not having them brings you closer to marty stu territory which is a lonely place. So go with this flaw. Or dont. Just a idea.

Eldar had lasguns in 2nd.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Matoro99 wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
@OP:

Not cool. Better kitbash your own tanks out of deodorant bottles.

Are you talking about the 90s grav tanks? I’m already working on that actually. I was going to make that as a display modle tho.

Yep.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Table wrote:
I never play against homebrew. Just not worth the headache. You are free to write it and play with others of a like mind.

Honestly, your idea does not sound good at all to me. But that should not matter. We will in all likely hood never to meet or play. So you do you and have fun with it.

You may run into people that find your homebrew to be off putting because it is far from the norm. Be prepared for that. Because it will cost you games. But if you are willing to pay that price ( you may not lose any games at all if your area has a lot of open minded folk ) then go for broke. Get weird with it.

Some are going to disagree with this, but "I" think, that by current lore a space marine would never wear chaos armor. The armor itself is tainted and cannot be trusted. Many chaos marines fuse into their armor and the ones that do not generally have wards and cursed iconography that do not just wash off. "I" feel that a marine would rather wear no armor than be tainted by chaos. You will no doubt find things in the lore to back up my point, but also blow it apart. It is the nature of a open ended lore setting. I mean, we have Eldar using las guns in a Black Library book. So I guess anything is possible.

Edit : Just thought a good way to go with your idea. Perhaps only a few of your chapter decided to don chaos armor and the other chapter members are watching them for signs of corruption. Have it breed instability in your chapters lore. In my estimation, every space marine chapter should have one to many faults. Not having them brings you closer to marty stu territory which is a lonely place. So go with this flaw. Or dont. Just a idea.

Eldar had lasguns in 2nd.

Never knew that. Now I do. However, the novel I am referencing was released FAR after 2nd. More than 20 years to of retcon. Maybe there is a group out there still pewpewing with lasguns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I know about the puppy khorne axe and that one I find to be pretty bad. I actually dislike all chaos gear used by imperials. One, in my mind, they would shun it. Much like a christian would not use satanic armor ( I dont like making real world examples, but I am doing it here ).

Regardless, it has been stated in many pieces of chaos codex lore that chaos marines bond with their gear. Some moreso than others. The example of armor fusing is used a lot in the codex. Cant really pry that off and use it.

But in the end, if a HERO were to smite a chaos champion and take his/her weapon it should be a major source of hardship for the wielder. The call of Khorne is hard to resist for those in melee combat. The continued battle of wills with the item should be a major plot point.

I am not versed on puppy lore but was the Axe of Morkai given to them in Wrath of Magnus or earlier?