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SemperMortis wrote:
Had a bunch of games over the weekend and I can now confirm my belief that Kommandos are RIDICULOUSLY GOOD!

Played a mirror matchup against a fellow ork player who was leaning more into elite CC units like dreadz and the new squig riders and the new Beast Boss on Squigysaur.

Turn 1 I went first and deployed all my Kommandos 9' from the deployment zone as well as trukk boyz. I Called my WAAAAGH and bum rushed straight into his Elite Nobz armed with PKs, his deff Dread and his warboss. The Trukk Boyz double tagged his dread and the unit of Nobz while the Kommandos went after the warboss a unit of nobz and a scrapjet. First round of combat, all targets were dead. Kommandos mulched his CC Warboss and the scrapjet, the Boyz finished off the nobz without much effort and more importantly, hit a Tankbusta Bomb strat perfectly dealing 6 Mortal Wounds to the dread which was instrumental in finishing it off before it even had a turn to swing.

At this point the game was basically over (1k point game) as I had already gutted 2/3rds of his list in my opening turn and none of my CC threats had even received any return dmg, except the Trukk Boyz who had been interrupted by the Dread but had mostly whiffed and only inflicted 2 casualties to the boyz.

In every other game I played the Kommando/Trukk Boy double team was just a ridiculous good Alpha Strike. The only player who caused me any pain at all was Imperial Guard infantry spam ironically, and this was because he arrayed a unit of sacrificial guardsmen up front who ate my alpha strike, luckily my Kommandos were all in cover on turn 1 so when they got shot at they were a T5 3+ save unit that was able to weather the storm relatively well, enough at least to get stuck in turn 2 against his next line and finish off his biggest threats.

Glad someone else is finding the same success with the Kommando/trukk boys alpha strike. What's your build for the kommandos and the Nob weapon on the boys?

I'm using two blocks of ten kommandos with a breacha ram, and PKs on the Kommando and boys nobs.

 Grimskul wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Had a bunch of games over the weekend and I can now confirm my belief that Kommandos are RIDICULOUSLY GOOD!

Played a mirror matchup against a fellow ork player who was leaning more into elite CC units like dreadz and the new squig riders and the new Beast Boss on Squigysaur.

Turn 1 I went first and deployed all my Kommandos 9' from the deployment zone as well as trukk boyz. I Called my WAAAAGH and bum rushed straight into his Elite Nobz armed with PKs, his deff Dread and his warboss. The Trukk Boyz double tagged his dread and the unit of Nobz while the Kommandos went after the warboss a unit of nobz and a scrapjet. First round of combat, all targets were dead. Kommandos mulched his CC Warboss and the scrapjet, the Boyz finished off the nobz without much effort and more importantly, hit a Tankbusta Bomb strat perfectly dealing 6 Mortal Wounds to the dread which was instrumental in finishing it off before it even had a turn to swing.

At this point the game was basically over (1k point game) as I had already gutted 2/3rds of his list in my opening turn and none of my CC threats had even received any return dmg, except the Trukk Boyz who had been interrupted by the Dread but had mostly whiffed and only inflicted 2 casualties to the boyz.

In every other game I played the Kommando/Trukk Boy double team was just a ridiculous good Alpha Strike. The only player who caused me any pain at all was Imperial Guard infantry spam ironically, and this was because he arrayed a unit of sacrificial guardsmen up front who ate my alpha strike, luckily my Kommandos were all in cover on turn 1 so when they got shot at they were a T5 3+ save unit that was able to weather the storm relatively well, enough at least to get stuck in turn 2 against his next line and finish off his biggest threats.

Congrats on your krushing victory! What clan did you take for this alpha strike list? I'm guessing Goffs? Also, how many kommandos ended up engaging with the Squigasaur boss? I'm kinda surprised that you were able to wipe him in one turn, given that you'd be wounding him on 5's.

Goffs. Squigyboss is T7, Kommandos get +1 to wound so they were wounding on 4s not 5s On average they get 9x5 for 45 attacks hitting on 3s. So 30 hits, goffs gives them another 7-8 hits (Something I continually forget btw), that is 18-19 wounds on average which are saved on a 5+, that averages 12-13 wounds. They utterly mulched him, it wasn't even average it was well beyond, and that isn't with the Nob swinging with his PK at all

 Afrodactyl wrote:

Glad someone else is finding the same success with the Kommando/trukk boys alpha strike. What's your build for the kommandos and the Nob weapon on the boys?

I'm using two blocks of ten kommandos with a breacha ram, and PKs on the Kommando and boys nobs.

Trukk boyz I am running naked, the Nob gets 2 choppas, Kommandos I'm running Nob with PK because its 5pts...why wouldn't you? And Distraction grot/Bomb Squig, no other upgrades.

I'm toying with a list idea of 3 Patrol Detachments with a warboss in each one, riding in the Trukk along with the Trukk Boyz

Warboss W/Headwhoppa Proper Killy (big boss/Extra Gubbinz)
Warboss W/PK Supa Cybork, Warlord, Brutal but Kunnin
Warboss in Mega Armor w/Da Krushin Armor, Might is right, (Big Boss/Extra Gubbinz)
3x 10 Trukk Boyz (including Nob w/2xchoppa)
3x Trukkz
3x 10 Kommandos with Nob w/PK Bomb Squig and Distraction Grot.
3x 10 StormBoyz W/Nob
2x 3 Deff Koptas
5x KMK in 3 units (two with two, one with one)

Declare WAAAAAGH turn 1 and you have 3x 10 Trukk Boyz moving 12, getting out, moving/advancing 3x 10 Kommandos being 9' from deployment, moving 6 and advancing if necessary. 3x 10 Stormboyz going full throttle for 18' movement(losing 1.5 models on average, but up to 3) and 2x 3 Deff Koptas Moving 14 and than either shooting or going flat out for 20 but they can't shoot. ***SIDE NOTE*** Deff Koptas get 12 attacks each as Goff/WAAAAGH at S6 AP-1 ***

That gives you 90 Ork Boyz/kommandos/stormboyz in your face turn 1, all with a minimum of 4 attacks each, most with 5 as well as 6 Deff Koptas which are either going for a charge as well or hanging back to fire missiles at your opponent. You also have 3 Trukkz with Warbosses in them which act as a really nice Turn 2 Threat and all of this is backed up by 5 Mek Gunz holding your rear line/objectives and happily plinking away with KMKs.

If you fail to get first turn you can position your trukkz out of LOS, Kommandos in Cover and either put your Koptas/Stormboyz in deep strike OR have them in cover/out of LOS as well. If your opponent spends their first turn plinking away at Kommandos in cover with a 3+ save and T5 and Mek Gunz hanging out in the back, well...not ideal but not the end of the game either.

I figure the Warbosses are just absolute beat sticks who show up turn 2 to absolutely wreck face.

Kommando/trukkboy/stormboy spam is as close to a green tide that works this edition.

Still wondering if the campaign renown detachment is based on greentide.

So the beastboss and megaboss are coming up soon...and the same question i had before is still rattling through my head.

What, if any, reason is there for these 2 bosses to even exist?
Beastboss is basically the old footboss, but is a Snagga so slightly better. But overall underwhelming compared to the others and not really cheaper when you factor how much weaker he is.
Megaboss isnt really stronger offensively but at least he can be made annoyingly tanky.

Then theres the squigboss which is just ridiculous for its price in terms of offense. Who cares about defense when you kill everything before they swing at ya? Also hes faster by a long shot.
And of course, wartrike is the big thorn in the side in this decision. Virtually every list has a lot of vehicles right now, so a Speedboss is kinda mandatory. And for the before mentioned reasons that 2nd detachment boss is going to be a squigboss.

Unless you play a lot of 500pt games i just dont see why those other 2 bosses exist. Had the 1 boss per detachment rule not been a thing i'd run a megaboss over a megamek any day.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
So the beastboss and megaboss are coming up soon...and the same question i had before is still rattling through my head.

What, if any, reason is there for these 2 bosses to even exist?
Beastboss is basically the old footboss, but is a Snagga so slightly better. But overall underwhelming compared to the others and not really cheaper when you factor how much weaker he is.
Megaboss isnt really stronger offensively but at least he can be made annoyingly tanky.

Then theres the squigboss which is just ridiculous for its price in terms of offense. Who cares about defense when you kill everything before they swing at ya? Also hes faster by a long shot.
And of course, wartrike is the big thorn in the side in this decision. Virtually every list has a lot of vehicles right now, so a Speedboss is kinda mandatory. And for the before mentioned reasons that 2nd detachment boss is going to be a squigboss.

Unless you play a lot of 500pt games i just dont see why those other 2 bosses exist. Had the 1 boss per detachment rule not been a thing i'd run a megaboss over a megamek any day.

I think the problem is that we know how GW works when it comes to rules. The design team makes the sculpts and then the rules team has to make unit profiles and rulesets around them. Since usually the sculpt team follows a certain theme when it comes to new batches of models versus when they just do sculpt updates, it wouldn't be surprising that they gave Beast Snaggas a mounted HQ to reflect the Squighog boyz and a foot version for the regular Snagga ladz. The rules team unfortunately then has to try and shoehorn the Beastboss into the codex even though his position is arguably already filled by the existing regular Warboss on foot. I feel like they could have definitely done a better job of giving him meaningful rules that doesn't make him seem redundant, but I would say that's why he even exists at all as an entry, and given that the rules writers certainly held back a lot on giving most of our generic HQ's distinct/imaginative bespoke rules, it's not surprising he doesn't offer Beast Snagga units anything different than regular Warbosses do.

Yeah thats the other thing that bugs me, unlike other armies our bosses dont do different things. All 4 of them hit things and hit them in varying levels of hardness or speed, thats it.
None of them have a different aura or gimick.

So its not even a debate of "better melee vs better support?" which further makes me wonder why he exists.
i get it that GW is notorious for rules/artists not really talking but the bosses we got now feel like the worst offender of that problem

 Grimskul wrote:
I think the problem is that we know how GW works when it comes to rules. The design team makes the sculpts and then the rules team has to make unit profiles and rulesets around them. Since usually the sculpt team follows a certain theme when it comes to new batches of models versus when they just do sculpt updates, it wouldn't be surprising that they gave Beast Snaggas a mounted HQ to reflect the Squighog boyz and a foot version for the regular Snagga ladz. The rules team unfortunately then has to try and shoehorn the Beastboss into the codex even though his position is arguably already filled by the existing regular Warboss on foot. I feel like they could have definitely done a better job of giving him meaningful rules that doesn't make him seem redundant, but I would say that's why he even exists at all as an entry, and given that the rules writers certainly held back a lot on giving most of our generic HQ's distinct/imaginative bespoke rules, it's not surprising he doesn't offer Beast Snagga units anything different than regular Warbosses do.

This. The entire codex feels like the development team was almost done with it, but then was pulled from them and released early with the beast snagga box.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah thats the other thing that bugs me, unlike other armies our bosses dont do different things. All 4 of them hit things and hit them in varying levels of hardness or speed, thats it.
None of them have a different aura or gimick.

So its not even a debate of "better melee vs better support?" which further makes me wonder why he exists.
i get it that GW is notorious for rules/artists not really talking but the bosses we got now feel like the worst offender of that problem

DG are the same though. You can chose between Typhus (re-roll aura, hits hard in melee, psyker), Chaos Lord (re-roll aura, hits hard in melee, some ranged weapons), Lord of Contagions (re-roll aura, hits hard in melee) and Lord of Virulence (re-roll aura, hits hard in melee, double flamer). One per detachment, just like warbosses.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah thats the other thing that bugs me, unlike other armies our bosses dont do different things. All 4 of them hit things and hit them in varying levels of hardness or speed, thats it.
None of them have a different aura or gimick.

So its not even a debate of "better melee vs better support?" which further makes me wonder why he exists.
i get it that GW is notorious for rules/artists not really talking but the bosses we got now feel like the worst offender of that problem

Damn really, because redundant warboss HQs definitely feel like the least of the 'what were you thinking' design decisions GW went with in this 'dex....

For me, the decision of 'hey let's give orks, the faction that really loves advancing to make up for their low base mv, who we used to distinguish from every other factions' special/heavy weapons by making them all Assault, who we just handed army-wide advance and charge, a new weapon type that STOPS WORKING if you fire it while advancing!!!' is the number one.

Like, i'm almost 99% certain that whoever came up with dakka weaponry just...didn't know that the default rule for weapons wasn't "Assault" and that if you change the weapon type to something other than Assault, you can no longer shoot it if you advance.

All in all orks seem pretty similar to drukhari in terms of their rules - some units that you look at and go "wait...can that possibly be right? it does HOW MUCH DAMAGE??" and then others that are just their previous incarnation with all the flavor and interest stripped away who can only be propped up through weird subfaction trait/army wide rule interactions.

At least theirs are casters so they can have different powers.

Ours arent casters so we just have generic: Walk over there and hit very hard" characters. with a single aura, +1 to hit.

There should be some leadership bonuses as long as our warlord is alive I feel. Lorewise boys tend to run when the warboss is dead, they often dont run before. So im not sure why every single ork unit suffers so much from morale. They took a step in the right direction with the waagh thing, but its like they didnt go all the way.

Leadership is such an annoyance and stops me from wanting to play the way i want to the most, with a big blob of boys.

Beardedragon wrote:
At least theirs are casters so they can have different powers.

Ours arent so we just have generic: Walk over there and hit very hard" characters.

There should be some leadership bonuses as long as our warlord is alive I feel. Lorewise boys tend to run when the warboss is dead, they often dont run before. So im not sure why every single ork unit suffers so much from morale. They took a step in the right direction with the waagh thing, but its like they didnt go all the way.

Leadership is such an annoyance and stops me from wanting to play the way i want to the most, with a big blob of boys.

Our only way of making WB feel distinct and flavourful is basically taking extra WL traits and relics to make them do their job of being tanky or killy better. That's about it. Which is a little disappointing when I feel like they could have shifted more towards Ork Warbosses having the same obsessive tendencies as some of the Ork specialists like Tankbustas, Burna Boyz and Speed Freeks, which makes sense since usually most Orks who rise to the top are basically the biggest versions of these kinds of Orks. Having more ways to reflect guys like Nazdreg and the Arch-Arsonist of Charadon would have been nice.

I have a game tomorrow, and I really don’t want to cheat. I play Freebootaz. It is my understanding that in a Superheavy Auxiliary Detachment, A Stompa cannot gain the detachment abilities of Freebootaz, but IS a Freebootaz unit and hence can kick off the buffs for the rest of the army. But, Battlescribe seems to disagree with me.

Who’s right?

 The Shrike wrote:
I have a game tomorrow, and I really don’t want to cheat. I play Freebootaz. It is my understanding that in a Superheavy Auxiliary Detachment, A Stompa cannot gain the detachment abilities of Freebootaz, but IS a Freebootaz unit and hence can kick off the buffs for the rest of the army. But, Battlescribe seems to disagree with me.

Who’s right?

You have it correct, since your Stompa still has the Freeboota keyword even if it doesn't personally benefit from the detachment abilities. So long as you kill a unit with the Stompa, every other Freeboota unit in your army gets +1 to hit that phase.

Thinking about throwing nobs in as trukk boys because their models are so cool. 10-12 choppa/bigchoppa/pks

Sound decent enough or is it really that bad?

A squigosaur with ard as nails and the beasthide mantle sounds hilariously hard to kill. Wounded on 6's unless you have S7, 5+ Invuln, 5+ FNP, -1 damage.

 OOTN wrote:
A squigosaur with ard as nails and the beasthide mantle sounds hilariously hard to kill. Wounded on 6's unless you have S7, 5+ Invuln, 5+ FNP, -1 damage.

It's silly really. Definitely one of my MVPs lately. It either soaks up soooo much firepower that everything else gets left alone, or it gets ignored and causes chaos.

A mega armoured boss with ard as nails and krusin' armour is also a solid tanky option. No damage reduction but great armour saves backed up by the -1 to wound rolls.

You can technically gain -1+ armor in cover.
Megaboss/megamek + Bad moon best armor teef can buy + crushin' armor + being in cover.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
So the beastboss and megaboss are coming up soon...and the same question i had before is still rattling through my head.

What, if any, reason is there for these 2 bosses to even exist?
Beastboss is basically the old footboss, but is a Snagga so slightly better. But overall underwhelming compared to the others and not really cheaper when you factor how much weaker he is.
Megaboss isnt really stronger offensively but at least he can be made annoyingly tanky.

Then theres the squigboss which is just ridiculous for its price in terms of offense. Who cares about defense when you kill everything before they swing at ya? Also hes faster by a long shot.
And of course, wartrike is the big thorn in the side in this decision. Virtually every list has a lot of vehicles right now, so a Speedboss is kinda mandatory. And for the before mentioned reasons that 2nd detachment boss is going to be a squigboss.

Unless you play a lot of 500pt games i just dont see why those other 2 bosses exist. Had the 1 boss per detachment rule not been a thing i'd run a megaboss over a megamek any day.

Yeah and than there is a Warboss on Warbike….
Don ' t even mention, you can take two Beastbosses on Squigosaur.

 Vineheart01 wrote:


What, if any, reason is there for these 2 bosses to even exist?

Rule wise? Same reason why primaris were released in the first place. None!

We got two almost identical HQs, like SM with their captains, so ork players can buy more models. Having different flavours they also allow hobbysts to collect, and eventually play, thematic armies.

Well, the MA warboss was a much requested model after he was legend'ed.

The beastboss on foot though? IMO just an inferior version of the Orruk Megaboss, a side grade to the least used Ork HQ with a vastly better mounted version.

I don't think there is a model in the ork range that I have less interest in than in that guy.

Painboss maybe?

 Blackie wrote:
Painboss maybe?

Painboss is 3in to slow for replacing the painboy on bike… oh and the fact his rules make no sense for ONLY working on beastboys and warbikers for some reason. I have faith he will be better in another editon.

The beastboss has zero role and reason to be played. Even the kommando stormboy trukk spam list which can use 3 warbosses doesn’t want the beastboss. You rather take generic warbosses and/or mega warboss.

Yeah, painboss is another odd one, but at least it's not a completely lost cause.

 Jidmah wrote:
Yeah, painboss is another odd one, but at least it's not a completely lost cause.

Yeah, I feel like they saw they kinda dropped the ball when people started spamming master apothecaries with selfless healer left and right when the new SM codex dropped and they overcorrected it when we finally got a Painboy-type HQ again, by somehow making him not only a selective healer...but his selling point is that he's....faster? By like 2-3". I think they forget that barring squighog boyz we don't really have the same value that SM have when it comes to replacing entire models (not to mention we never had that ability to begin with).

Super-missed opportunity to have some kind of command phase "in-game boosts" where on a 3+ you get to choose what kind of "Fightin' Juice" he can inject into an Ork CORE unit within 3" to give +2M, +1S, +1T or +1A or something until the start of the next command phase. Hell, having a pre-game ability to cybork a CORE Unit with some kind of upgrade would have been nice too (the Mad Dok should have this ability to, like he used to).

Well if painboss was 45 points like the ad mech HQs (which as opposed to the painboss are really good) it would be fine.
Just as beastboss on foot for 55 points could be an option (I still think everyone would be taking sguigosaur for 115 but perhaps for small games ?).
I agree with the model team / rules team fiasco theory

oh yea totally. the Painboss is a completely missed opportunity

Join in the Waaagh! Pick Up an Ork Miniature and Coin In-store in September - WarCom

Show multiple pics of the new Nob, but stick "*** The model you receive may differ from the one shown." at the bottom of the page...

I think they wanted the painboss to keep up with warbikers which is the only reason to give him that keyword for fnp. But with only a 3in aura and 7in movement. Warbikers are out of his range first turn. He honestly need to be 10in movement to keep up with squigriders and warbikers if he advances.

It stings more because as far as models go, we were super spoiled for this release. It just sucks that the rules quality isn't on par with what we got in terms of model-quality (new boyz and the somewhat iffy Beastboss/Kill-Rig kit aside).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
I think they wanted the painboss to keep up with warbikers which is the only reason to give him that keyword for fnp. But with only a 3in aura and 7in movement. Warbikers are out of his range first turn. He honestly need to be 10in movement to keep up with squigriders and warbikers if he advances.

Yeah, I think they should have bit the bullet and just either gave him an auto-advance ability of 6" or 10" movement base.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

beast_gts wrote:
Join in the Waaagh! Pick Up an Ork Miniature and Coin In-store in September - WarCom

Show multiple pics of the new Nob, but stick "*** The model you receive may differ from the one shown." at the bottom of the page...

Does the coin come in with a purchase or do you have to pay for it as well?

 Grimskul wrote:
Does the coin come in with a purchase or do you have to pay for it as well?

You get a coin for every £60 you spend - I think the Ork one is the 9th one released.